Register

Author Topic: DLC 5 tournament  (Read 23590 times)

metroid composite

  • m_ACac
  • Administrator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4375
    • View Profile
DLC 5 tournament
« on: December 11, 2009, 07:09:23 AM »
So...looked in the DLC5 topic, noticed that I had missed the time period when everyone was discussing the fighting game tournament, and that there didn't seem to be clear organization this year.  Actually the tournament organizing is something I've been thinking about a bunch lately, I just wasn't logged into the DL when I was doing so (Bus/Train/Work/etc).

May as well share my observations...

#1 Historically, the organizer of the tournament does not participate in the tournament
Okay, so Captain K broke this one on games he didn't know well in order to fill out the bracket, but in general I think this has a lot of benefits.  First, someone's actually running things and moving things along instead of being distracted.  Second, as the organizers have a tendency to pick out games that they know well, them participating seems kinda unfair and less fun.

#2 So far, the organizer has switched every tournament
This seems like a good policy.  Different organizers = different games.  Different organizers bring different things to the table.  If we're sticking with rule #1, different organizers means that nobody's stuck never playing.  (Eventually I'm sure we'll have to repeat an organizer, but I feel like we should give people decent breaks).

#3 The tournament is entertaining because there's spectators oohing and ahing--this is it's main advantage over the rest of the 40 hours we spend playing videogames.
How do we emphasize this aspect?  Well for starters, no-seeding + single-elimination keeps things exiting (though perhaps not strictly fair--see my DLC4 bracket placement ^_^).
Perhaps more importantly, one thing I learned from the DLC4 tournament is that splitting rooms is bad.  DLC2 where we had two TVs running SF2 worked fine.  DLC4's room split just subdued the mood.

#4 So far, we have yet to repeat a game
We will likely buck that trend this year with Brawl...although actually, that might deserve further analysis.  For instance, Smash Bros in general was barely touched the last time we were in Pacifica, so maybe Brawl is bigger on the east coast?  (Then again, DLC5 might not be the same crowd as DLC3--I should compare guest lists).  There are also Smash Bros games that have yet to be used in a DL tournament, which could be included in lieu of Brawl for a change of pace.

#5 These things are too damn long
I think everyone agrees on this point; by the end most people are tired and the excitement is drained.  And if DLC attendance (and by extension tournament enrollment) keeps growing without us addressing time, then the problem will just get worse.  Several solutions:
1. Make sure the next pair is ready to go and has their character selected before getting a controller.
2. Use quicker games (in terms of match length)
3. Use fewer games. (so far the format has been 4 games and a "secret" 5th game)
4. Use multiple TVs (preferably in the same room as mentioned above).
5. Skip the "stop and look at the movelist" step, or include more games where you don't need a movelist.
6. Have two games running simultaneously.

Not saying we need to make every one of these changes.  Different tournament organizers might even have different ideas of what is "sacred and can't be sacrificed."  These are just places where corners could be cut.

#6 We have never had two games from the same series in the same tournament
Fairly obvious (these tournaments are significantly about variety) but it bears mentioning.





--------------------------

Aaanyhow, that's the end of my sort-of general analysis section.  On a personal level, I'm actually interested in organizing this year (or else I probably wouldn't have done this much thinking).  Figure I should say some stuff about me specifically:

To be perfectly honest, I may not be the ideal candidate, and won't be offended if people argue against me.  On the plus side, I'm eager and have done a lot of thinking about tournament structure.  On the minus side, I'm the girl who pushed for PoFV last year (I eventually ended up agreeing with Sage that PoFV matches take too long, but point is if people are looking for a "fighting game tournaments with nothing but real fighting games", I'm not your girl).

One area I do feel is my strength, however, is time management analysis.  Like, I started getting a bit obsessed with how to get a scientific idea of match length.  For instance, my analysis of Super Mario Kart went something like... 3:10 between good players, 3:30 between amateurs--which is to say: SMK matches are too long (I was aiming for 1:00 at the time--longer if the game had a very strong argument outside of match length).

Anyhow, figure I may as well toss this out there, and get discussion going on general observations of what works in these tournaments, as well as discussion going on whether people would be happy with me running things. :)
« Last Edit: December 12, 2009, 08:44:52 PM by metroid composite »

Grefter

  • Villain.
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 10386
  • True and Honest. Smarter. More aggressive.
    • View Profile
Re: DLC 5 tournament
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2009, 07:58:49 AM »
I think you should do it and use One Must Fall 2097 for the finals. 
NO MORE POKEMON - Meeplelard.
The king perfect of the DL is and always will be Excal. - Superaielman
Don't worry, just jam it in anyway. - SirAlex
Gravellers are like, G-Unit - Trancey.

Xeroma

  • SARDINES.
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 924
  • Vampire
    • View Profile
Re: DLC 5 tournament
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2009, 08:35:50 AM »
I don't want 5 games this year, that much I will say off the bat. This means no sekrit game :<

As for roster, there will be a bunch of games out by DLC5 that were not available during DLC4. Including:

1. Super Street Fighter 4. It's SF4 with a bunch of new characters and a slightly faster gameplay pace, will be out Spring 2010. Still is SF4 at heart though, not the mash friendliest game. 360/PS3 game.
2. Tekken 6. Highly flashy and explosive 3D fighter, but not in the same vein as Soul Calibur. Mash friendly, but only on some characters. 360/PS3/PSP game.
3. Melty Blood: Actress Again. Easily the second most popular fighting game in the DL, it gets mentioned and played in IRC chat a fair amount. I actually wanted to run Act Cadenza[the version out before AA] at DLC4, but it was PC only :/. It's a pretty mash friendly game and has a sort of retro pixel art style, has some nice style and some hilarious stuff.  PS2 game.
4. Tatsunoko vs. Capcom: Ultimate All Stars. It's a VS game! Newb/mash friendly, wacky cast and extremely explosive/shiny. Wii game.
5. The King of Fighters XII. This was out during DLC4, but I didn't have the cash to get it. Team based fighter, but I honestly think some other games in the series[IE; older ones] would work better due to a combination of larger cast and higher damage. KoFXII is damn pretty at least. 360/PS3 game.

POSSIBLY: 6. Blazblue Continuum Shift. BB with two additional characters, lots of move property changes, and a Beginner Mode when you can choose a simplified button setup for people not used to the game, where intermediate level stuff can be done easier at the cost of additional precision[which does not matter in a tourney like this]. Think sorta Marvel vs Capcom here. It might not be out by the con date though. Will be a 360/PS3 game for sure.

No, this is not a proposed roster, just noting the additional game options we have. Alternatively, I can pull something out of the vault for a retro game in case people want something silly, like say Darkstalkers. I noted if games were mash friendly because, let's be honest, most people picking these games up in a tourney are going to be unfamiliar with how any of them work, so at least they should know if they need any technical skill to do things that look shiny.

As for the other issues, the games all being in the same room would help a lot. I'll try to bring a TV with me to the con, though it's kinda small. I might participate this time, but that's a huge maybe, might just be like last year where I'll take on the champs of the individual games?

Also LOL Gref, that'd be funny as shit but only for a few matches I think.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2009, 08:38:00 AM by Xeroma »


<@SageAcrin> Where you realize that, when you think about everything that's said about this person...
<@SageAcrin> It adds up to one thing.
<+Ranmilia> MEGA MAN PLOT

Grefter

  • Villain.
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 10386
  • True and Honest. Smarter. More aggressive.
    • View Profile
Re: DLC 5 tournament
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2009, 08:39:15 AM »
This is why it is the perfect game for the finals.
NO MORE POKEMON - Meeplelard.
The king perfect of the DL is and always will be Excal. - Superaielman
Don't worry, just jam it in anyway. - SirAlex
Gravellers are like, G-Unit - Trancey.

Dhyerwolf

  • Mod Board Access
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4736
  • Here it comes, the story, of mankind's final glory
    • View Profile
Re: DLC 5 tournament
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2009, 09:11:40 AM »
I think you should do it and use One Must Fall 2097 for the finals. 

Hell yes.
...into the nightfall.

Meeplelard

  • Fire Starter
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5356
    • View Profile
Re: DLC 5 tournament
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2009, 04:52:43 PM »
ONe thing that helped DLC4's Tourney was when we decided to run two games at once; having 2 people run the Tournament allowed for this, though it makes the whole wait factor kick in.  Granted, just doing 2-3 TVs per game at once works too.  The downside is we'll need to insure we have multiple of a given game.  For something like Brawl or Soul Calibur, that shouldn't be too hard, but for something like KoF (random game I just picked out of nowhere), its not a given, so having the "2 games at once" alternative is always something to keep in mind.

I know at DLC4, they were originally going to do one game at a time, but some people actually spoke up saying the advantage of 2 games, and that worked well beyond the "Person needs to be in 2 places at once" thing.  Though, at my college, when something like that happens (or at least, someone's in the bathroom when they're turn is up), they just move onto the next match, and come back to the previous one, which we could do.

The Tournament should have 2 people running it either way; this puts less stress on one person, and allows for more flexibility with Multiple consoles.  One person can plan the thing, but there should be at least one other person helping out at the tournament, and they'd need to volunteer BEFORE the Con, naturally, such that the co-ordinator of the Tournament doesn't accidentally put them in...

Granted, I think that you should have to volunteer to be in the Tournament to begin with, so the whole "Won't be put in" aspect wouldn't be a big deal, since that person wouldn't volunteer to be in the tourney to begin with.
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

VySaika

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2836
    • View Profile
Re: DLC 5 tournament
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2009, 04:59:34 PM »
I'm not adverse to running it again, to be quite frank. As you may have noticed by now I'm just a touch of a control freak and this sort of orginization is right up my alley anyway. But if someone else wants to, that's fine as well.

Also, cutting it down to three games for the time issues seems ideal to me. We can hold a poll in this topic for which three games to feature so that everyone coming at least gets some say in it?

Re: Meeple's point. Yeah, having Ciato and Xer to help me last year was a big help. Orginizer will want a couple of assistants. And going around asking everyone if they were in or not is what Cap and I both did, so dunno why you brought that up at all. <_<
<%Laggy> we're open minded individuals here
<+RandomKesaranPasaran> are we
<%Laggy> no not really.

<Tide|NukicommentatoroptionforF> Hatbot is a pacifist

metroid composite

  • m_ACac
  • Administrator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4375
    • View Profile
Re: DLC 5 tournament
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2009, 06:27:47 PM »
I think you should do it and use One Must Fall 2097 for the finals.  

Hmm...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15bvpznQP5M

Well matches are 0:50 or thereabouts.  That's a point in its favour. >_> <_<

1. Super Street Fighter 4. It's SF4 with a bunch of new characters and a slightly faster gameplay pace, will be out Spring 2010. Still is SF4 at heart though, not the mash friendliest game. 360/PS3 game.

Hmm...still lacking data on this one--like all the demos have insta-regen health which makes it hard to gauge match length.

One thing I will say is that we've had Street Fighter 2/4 in every fighting game tournament so far, and I don't even get the impression that it's hugely popular in the DL (I'd kneejerk Soul Calibur as more popular).  Probably doesn't need to be a three-in-a-row series.

Quote
2. Tekken 6. Highly flashy and explosive 3D fighter, but not in the same vein as Soul Calibur. Mash friendly, but only on some characters. 360/PS3/PSP game.

Do we have Tekken fans like...at all?  I remember seeing more conversations about Virtua Fighter than Tekken around here, and VF didn't work out well.

Time Wise...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZxf2rulvQQ
2:00, so that's solid.  We could also probably mess with the settings to make it best-of-two instead of best-of-three (which would bring things down to 1:15 average).

Quote
3. Melty Blood: Actress Again. Easily the second most popular fighting game in the DL, it gets mentioned and played in IRC chat a fair amount. I actually wanted to run Act Cadenza[the version out before AA] at DLC4, but it was PC only :/. It's a pretty mash friendly game and has a sort of retro pixel art style, has some nice style and some hilarious stuff.  PS2 game.

Okay, this sounds like an extremely strong candidate.  Especially since the entire series hasn't been in the tournament yet and is popular here.

Time wise...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWxp3HdLgLA
3:00, although granted this was worst-case scenario (rounds last about 1:00, so times will vary between 2:00 and 3:00)

Quote
4. Tatsunoko vs. Capcom: Ultimate All Stars. It's a VS game! Newb/mash friendly, wacky cast and extremely explosive/shiny. Wii game.

Time:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xj3E-vbXeJc
Looks like about 2:00, though I want more data as this looks like testers who know how to play the game doing supers and stuff--will newbies deal less damage to each other and take longer?

Quote
5. The King of Fighters XII. This was out during DLC4, but I didn't have the cash to get it. Team based fighter, but I honestly think some other games in the series[IE; older ones] would work better due to a combination of larger cast and higher damage. KoFXII is damn pretty at least. 360/PS3 game.

Time:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mIFoV5ad-Y
3:00.  

Quote
POSSIBLY: 6. Blazblue Continuum Shift. BB with two additional characters, lots of move property changes, and a Beginner Mode when you can choose a simplified button setup for people not used to the game, where intermediate level stuff can be done easier at the cost of additional precision[which does not matter in a tourney like this]. Think sorta Marvel vs Capcom here. It might not be out by the con date though. Will be a 360/PS3 game for sure.

Don't have very good video examples of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK46qk8IKV0
Video ends before the match does; I would estimate a match length of about 3:40.

This was also the longest game at DLC4.  Can't remember exactly how long it ran, but for some reason "hour and a half" is jumping to mind.  The room split didn't help at all, of course.

Quote
As for the other issues, the games all being in the same room would help a lot. I'll try to bring a TV with me to the con, though it's kinda small.

I can bring one TV from home and one TV from work (if they'll let me, but I can't see why they wouldn't, it's not like anyone else will be using my desk).  I'm sure there will also be at least one or two TVs from other sources at the con, and we can move them into the same room.

Multiple games (and potentially mutliple 360s/PS3s) are the issue.  Although...granted, I could try to argue for bringing a few machines from work.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2009, 06:30:43 PM by metroid composite »

Xeroma

  • SARDINES.
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 924
  • Vampire
    • View Profile
Re: DLC 5 tournament
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2009, 06:30:25 PM »
BBCS wouldn't be as long as the original in this kind of tourney due to the existance of a newbie mode that does combos/specials in a simpler fashion. I wouldn't cry if it didn't get in though, and there's no guarantee it'll even be out on console by then.


<@SageAcrin> Where you realize that, when you think about everything that's said about this person...
<@SageAcrin> It adds up to one thing.
<+Ranmilia> MEGA MAN PLOT

metroid composite

  • m_ACac
  • Administrator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4375
    • View Profile
Re: DLC 5 tournament
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2009, 06:57:29 PM »
Quote
Granted, just doing 2-3 TVs per game at once works too.  The downside is we'll need to insure we have multiple of a given game.

Yeah, if we're short and can't get anyone to bring more copies, we should probably just suck it up and rent.  Renting a game costs...what $5? I'm willing to take the hit on that >_>

BBCS wouldn't be as long as the original in this kind of tourney due to the existance of a newbie mode that does combos/specials in a simpler fashion. I wouldn't cry if it didn't get in though, and there's no guarantee it'll even be out on console by then.

Regardless, I'm kinda leaning against it.  It's in the running for the longest match time of any game suggested even with people who can combo...and we just ran almost the same game last year.





So...some quick time calculations.  I'm going to go ahead and target an hour and a half as the length of the whole tournament.  Let's go ahead and assume a slight increase in attendance from DLC4, so like 20 people.  Taking the match lengths above, and allowing 30 seconds between matches to pass controllers and select characters (extremely idealistic), and assuming two TVs (which under ideal conditions means we need time for roughly 11 matches instead of 20)....

Melty Blood--based on the above we have a 2:30 match length, so +30 is 3:00.  This is a game where people can be expected to look at command lists, so maybe more like 3:30.  38 minutes.

Brawl with 2 stock...(reference video says 3:00--although less experienced fighters tend to have faster matches by walking off the ledge, so let's say 2:30).  +30 for controller switch is Looking at 3:00 again.  33 minutes.

If we run these two games we'll have about 19 minutes left for a third game if we're going to keep things under an hour and a half.  This restricts the third game to a match time of 1:10 or less.

Xeroma

  • SARDINES.
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 924
  • Vampire
    • View Profile
Re: DLC 5 tournament
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2009, 07:22:05 PM »
Actually in MB, every character uses qcf/qcb/dp[f,d,df]/d,d inputs, with the occasional hcf/hcb[everyone's super is hcf+C for example], so movelists aren't an issue.

Also no offense but I'm not sure I agree to applying math to something like this. Unpredictability is always an element, especially in fighting games.


<@SageAcrin> Where you realize that, when you think about everything that's said about this person...
<@SageAcrin> It adds up to one thing.
<+Ranmilia> MEGA MAN PLOT

Dhyerwolf

  • Mod Board Access
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4736
  • Here it comes, the story, of mankind's final glory
    • View Profile
Re: DLC 5 tournament
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2009, 07:55:58 PM »
Quote
2. Tekken 6. Highly flashy and explosive 3D fighter, but not in the same vein as Soul Calibur. Mash friendly, but only on some characters. 360/PS3/PSP game.

Do we have Tekken fans like...at all?  I remember seeing more conversations about Virtua Fighter than Tekken around here, and VF didn't work out well.

Tekken 2 was the first game that got me into videogames, and I pored countless hours in Tekken 3 (Which is to say yes, although by the time Tekken 4 came around, I had pretty much stopped playing fighting games).

After seeing that video of One Must Fall, I can't believe that I spent so much time playing it on my friend's computer. There must have been some level of customization.
...into the nightfall.

metroid composite

  • m_ACac
  • Administrator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4375
    • View Profile
Re: DLC 5 tournament
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2009, 10:55:07 PM »
Also no offense but I'm not sure I agree to applying math to something like this. Unpredictability is always an element, especially in fighting games.

Well...no, not really.  First, this isn't my first time running and scheduling a fighting game tournament--did that for a group of about 70 people in 2005.  Secondly, fighting games are not Starcraft (a game where matches vary from 10 minutes to 3 hours)--you can generally nail down a time range for a fighting game (if nothing else fighting games have a match timer.  But more to the point, look at multiple videos of a fighting game--notice how often within the same match each of the rounds take similar time to end; notice how often different videos have similar round lengths.  There are exceptions, but on the whole there's a fair bit of consistency).

Now, am I claiming that the games I listed will take exactly 1:11?  No, I suspect something would go wrong and things would take longer.  The point isn't "we're going to plan the con around this taking exactly 1:11".  The point is "let's have an actual time budget, so that we're thinking about and budgeting time in advance".

Xeroma

  • SARDINES.
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 924
  • Vampire
    • View Profile
Re: DLC 5 tournament
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2009, 10:59:54 PM »
Fair enough.


<@SageAcrin> Where you realize that, when you think about everything that's said about this person...
<@SageAcrin> It adds up to one thing.
<+Ranmilia> MEGA MAN PLOT

Grefter

  • Villain.
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 10386
  • True and Honest. Smarter. More aggressive.
    • View Profile
Re: DLC 5 tournament
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2009, 01:45:43 AM »
Tekken 3 was something I played for like 60 hours?  70 hours?  Yeah I liked Tekken 3.

OMF 2097 had a single player arena mode with customisation.  As is in multiplayer you pick a fighter and a robot which gives a good level of customisiation.
NO MORE POKEMON - Meeplelard.
The king perfect of the DL is and always will be Excal. - Superaielman
Don't worry, just jam it in anyway. - SirAlex
Gravellers are like, G-Unit - Trancey.

metroid composite

  • m_ACac
  • Administrator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4375
    • View Profile
Re: DLC 5 tournament
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2009, 02:11:33 AM »
Tekken 3 was something I played for like 60 hours?  70 hours?  Yeah I liked Tekken 3.

Hmm...that's actually the general vibe I get about gamers and Tekken in general (people liked 3, but stopped caring later).  Maybe we should be giving Tekken 3 some thought?  (Is Tekken a series where later games are like earlier games but prettier, or do later games really play differently?)  From what I hear, Tekken 3 is "mash friendly", too--I had a coworker once who reprogrammed a controller to spam completely random input, and only one or two of his friends and family were able to beat it.

Quick time estimate:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ya0HGMU7aLk
For a 2-stock match, that'd be, 1:30 for 2-rounds, 2:15 for 3 rounds; average ~1:50.

Xeroma

  • SARDINES.
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 924
  • Vampire
    • View Profile
Re: DLC 5 tournament
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2009, 02:53:43 AM »
What happened was that Tekken 4 sucked ass. Killed a lot of the fanbase, the series has gotten better since then[I don't really see how you could call 6 worse than 3 in pretty much any way, for instance]. 4 basically added a ton of new features to the franchise and a lot of them didn't work out. 5 got rid of a large amount of it and felt/played more like a real Tekken game ala 3, 6 added in some stuff but nothing major aside from 6 new characters and somewhat larger lifebars.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2009, 02:55:25 AM by Xeroma »


<@SageAcrin> Where you realize that, when you think about everything that's said about this person...
<@SageAcrin> It adds up to one thing.
<+Ranmilia> MEGA MAN PLOT

Grefter

  • Villain.
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 10386
  • True and Honest. Smarter. More aggressive.
    • View Profile
Re: DLC 5 tournament
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2009, 02:57:45 AM »
Really?  Might have to check 6 out then.  But yeah Tekken 4 was rumored to suck balls and came out at the wrong time on the wrong console for me.  Tekken 5 came at the wrong time for a fighter for me (Had Soul Calibur to play).  Some stuff came out on PSP and I don't even care to touch a fighter on my PSP.  So yeah.  Tekken just had some bad ideas and bad timing.
NO MORE POKEMON - Meeplelard.
The king perfect of the DL is and always will be Excal. - Superaielman
Don't worry, just jam it in anyway. - SirAlex
Gravellers are like, G-Unit - Trancey.

Meeplelard

  • Fire Starter
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5356
    • View Profile
Re: DLC 5 tournament
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2009, 03:11:11 AM »
While I know this has been said several times in the past, it can't hurt to bring it up as a reminder:

Dissidia should be a big "NO" for the Tourney.  There's a lot of problems with running that game as a tourney idea, the big one being "PSPs = Bad Spectator Consoles."  I like the game a lot, but its a poor tourney idea.

And to branch from that, I think its safe to say no one wants to play Castlevania Judgment again <_< >_> (this of course means we must find one other "special" game for DLC5!  No, I have no clue what would qualify for that.)

Yeah, I know, these are pretty obvious statements, but can't hurt to repeat them.
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

Xeroma

  • SARDINES.
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 924
  • Vampire
    • View Profile
Re: DLC 5 tournament
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2009, 03:19:59 AM »
6's major additions are longer life bars, a new combo mechanic in Bounding[which sounds silly given it's Tekken but it does end up working out], more intense combo damage scaling[to offset the new combo mechanic], some stages now have breakable floors and walls[minor feature], and when you hit low life you get a Rage mode that boosts your damage[when I say low I mean like 15-20% low]. On top of that, it has all of 4 and 5's new characters[which is a lot of characters] combined with a bunch of new ones specifically for T6, including a battle android maid with chainsaws and rocket punches.

Oh, and it nerfed the effect of walls from T5, making them dangerous while not making them autowin in most scenarios.

And I feel I must note, I forgot that T6 has less 1P modes than T3. But having less awesome fighting game 1P than T3 isn't really an insult.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2009, 03:24:25 AM by Xeroma »


<@SageAcrin> Where you realize that, when you think about everything that's said about this person...
<@SageAcrin> It adds up to one thing.
<+Ranmilia> MEGA MAN PLOT

metroid composite

  • m_ACac
  • Administrator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4375
    • View Profile
Re: DLC 5 tournament
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2009, 06:32:33 AM »
Hmm...got thinking about smash bros match lengths: decided to do an analysis.

SSB64:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1SUcaRXz4o
(roughly 1 minute per stock, so 2:00)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLVd-vpvLqc
(about 50 seconds per stock, so 1:40)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoIVSH49EUI <-- note: people who aren't crazy good, probably more relevant.
(about 1 minute per stock, so 2:00)

Side note: I actually didn't remember and had to check, but yes you can turn items off without hacking in SSB64.


SSBM (a note about SSBM--I'm going to specifically look at matches where people don't know how to wavedash, as that's like...everyone in the DL except me and I would not be playing).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8TXxTka1sI
(About 1:10 per stock, so 2:20)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYZM81ZYzvY
(Hmm...first to two deaths took 2:30, but overall the average was 2:00--arguably Link blew his final recovery)

Brawl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kAl67ShmxQ
(1:40 average per stock, so 3:20)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r4yH4U7z2U
(2:05 average per stock, so 4:10)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ul3DyKBztZU
(1:35 average per stock, so 3:10)

Brawl+ (Okay, I should probably explain what B+ is.  By and large LFT for Brawl.  Speed things up, balance the characters, take out the obnoxious infinite combos, add more short situational combos, make a few characters more fun to play, remove tripping, let you pick Shiek and ZSS from the character select instead of having "sekret button to hold").
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9Xo7l11N-U
(1:05 average per stock, so 2:10)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFmdH73A-v0
(0:55 average per stock, so 1:50)



Hmmmm....what are people's feelings on Brawl+ actually?  On the one hand, controls and moves are almost entirely identical to Brawl, so it shouldn't be hard to pick up basic functionality.  On the other hand, everything's faster, and not uniformly so, which could screw-up people used to the original.  Additionally, fewer people will be able to practice with B+ than regular Brawl ahead of time (doing so requires hacking your Wii, which...isn't hard, but does require buying an SD card).

On the one hand, these negatives worry me.  On the other hand, the exact same objections could be levelled on...say, Super-SF4 compared to SF4 (plays almost the same, but small differences might screw people up, and practicing it takes an extra $60 investment).  And yet I'd definitely kneejerk SSF4 over SF4--new, shiny, faster, fixes problems.  Brawl+ kinda has the same advantages (semi-new, shiny, faster, fixes problems).  Thoughts?
« Last Edit: December 12, 2009, 06:34:42 AM by metroid composite »

Dark Holy Elf

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 8161
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history
    • View Profile
Re: DLC 5 tournament
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2009, 07:06:16 AM »
I am all for Brawl+ due to those sexy shorter match times. I'm really not fond of how Brawl feels "slowed down" compared to Melee and would be interested in seeing how its hack works.

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

Excal

  • Chibi Terror That Flaps in the Night
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2603
  • Let's Get Adorable
    • View Profile
Re: DLC 5 tournament
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2009, 08:31:58 AM »
My emotional reaction to Brawl + is strongly against with a touch of anger, though I don't know how much of that springs from the hack itself, and how much from the smug superiority I found on the forums when I was looking up info on it.  If it is available, I will likely give it a try.  But...  yeah.  Just can't like the thing right now.

Xeroma

  • SARDINES.
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 924
  • Vampire
    • View Profile
Re: DLC 5 tournament
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2009, 08:33:51 AM »
There's some bad blood surrounding Brawl+ due to smash community stuff[see Excal really, he's not the only one], which may raise objections/complaints/negativity from the audience. Otherwise I do see your point about it, and NEB's point. I'm on the fence about it myself. I can say that it would have a chance of being available, as my Wii is modded. I could get it if necessary.


<@SageAcrin> Where you realize that, when you think about everything that's said about this person...
<@SageAcrin> It adds up to one thing.
<+Ranmilia> MEGA MAN PLOT

DjinnAndTonic

  • Genie and Potion with Alcoholic Undertones
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 6942
  • "When you wish upon a bar~"
    • View Profile
    • RPGDL Wiki
Re: DLC 5 tournament
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2009, 09:40:08 AM »
I've never heard of this Brawl+ before, I'd like to try it.

Also, BlazBlue, despite the running time for matches, is such a fun game for spectator value. And it single-handedly got me interested in Fighting games again, so I'd personally like to throw all my support behind it.

Also, I was Tekken 1-3 fan, too.

And I want SOMEONE to get Dissidia on a large screen somehow, whether it's in the tournament or not, I just want to see it played on a large screen.