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Author Topic: Politics '11: Keeping up with the Xornses  (Read 60899 times)

SnowFire

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Re: Politics '10: Keeping up with the Xornses.
« Reply #100 on: March 15, 2010, 03:28:44 AM »
Shale, let me rephrase:  Nobody in North America / Europe would complain.  I mean, most Jews did leave North Africa / Iraq / etc. but a few do still live there.  It's certainly *legal* to go live as a Jew in Palestine.  Now if Israeli Jews did start moving into Palestinian neighborhoods via "normal" methods, I have no illusions that violence wouldn't spring up, but it doesn't have to be that way.  Mixed neighborhoods exist inside Israel, they could theoretically exist in the West Bank as well given the right set of circumstances.  But that's not even close to what's being attempted.

Anyway since we're apparently on an Israel kick.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1155881.html

Short version: Yisrael Beiteinu, a very weird political party, to its credit wants to break the super-conservative Orthodox stranglehold on marriage / who is a Jew questions.  This would allow Russian Jews descended from Jews on their father's side to actually be recognized as Jews, get married inside Israel, be buried in Jewish cemeteries, etc.  It's not a full move toward dismantling the theocracy here but whatever, close enough.  This looked to fracture Netanyahu's coalition, though, which includes the insane theocrat parties like United Torah Judaism that want to keep the ultra-Orthodox in charge of religious affairs.  A proposed compromise to get this through would change things so it'd only apply to Israeli citizens; in other words your silly Reform and Conservative conversions performed in America wouldn't count for the Law of Return, etc.  Not sure THIS will go through either, but in general, fail.

Cmdr_King

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Re: Politics '10: Keeping up with the Xornses.
« Reply #101 on: March 16, 2010, 02:51:52 AM »
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/14/magazine/14texbooks-t.html?em

So apparently there's a bloc in the Texas board of education that is pushing to "emphasize America's Christian roots" and claim that the Framers intended for the Bible to be considered America's highest legal document. Hopefully this falls though, but... fuck, I guess I can hope the Union collapses in to a bunch of meta-States or something if they win.

Followup- http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_ts1253
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Taishyr

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Re: Politics '10: Keeping up with the Xornses.
« Reply #102 on: March 16, 2010, 03:40:08 AM »
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/14/magazine/14texbooks-t.html?em

So apparently there's a bloc in the Texas board of education that is pushing to "emphasize America's Christian roots" and claim that the Framers intended for the Bible to be considered America's highest legal document. Hopefully this falls though, but... fuck, I guess I can hope the Union collapses in to a bunch of meta-States or something if they win.

Followup- http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_ts1253

I hope that the textbook writers have the spine to go against these changahahahahahahahahahaha oh who the fuck am I kidding, we'll see it swing this way and then back and then forward and then back~

Wee, making our children a battleground yet again~

NotMiki

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Re: Politics '10: Keeping up with the Xornses.
« Reply #103 on: March 16, 2010, 09:52:02 PM »
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/16/david-petraeus-on-dadt-th_n_500928.html

Gen Petraeus: "the time has come" to blow where the prevailing winds of politics take me consider repealing DADT
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Shale

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Re: Politics '10: Keeping up with the Xornses.
« Reply #104 on: March 16, 2010, 10:15:59 PM »
Close enough.
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NotMiki

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Re: Politics '10: Keeping up with the Xornses.
« Reply #105 on: March 17, 2010, 05:25:09 AM »
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/17/nyregion/17hiram.html?hp

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Sierra

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Re: Politics '10: Keeping up with the Xornses.
« Reply #106 on: March 17, 2010, 06:27:29 AM »
I like the part where he got kicked out of an old folks' home.

NotMiki

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Re: Politics '10: Keeping up with the Xornses.
« Reply #107 on: March 17, 2010, 06:36:18 AM »
I like the part where he got kicked out of an old folks' home.

That's no way to talk about the state senate.
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metroid composite

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Re: Politics '10: Keeping up with the Xornses.
« Reply #108 on: March 17, 2010, 04:13:06 PM »
I like the part where he got kicked out of an old folks' home.

That's no way to talk about the state senate.

Whoa, dude, isn't that comparison a little insulting to old folk's homes?

AAA

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Re: Politics '10: Keeping up with the Xornses.
« Reply #109 on: March 19, 2010, 02:24:56 AM »
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62H2DT20100318

So how about that healthcare bill?

Doing the math it looks like the Dems need 10 more yes votes to pass the bill. They have until Sunday to convince 10 Dems to accept the bill as is. Things are going to get pretty interesting this week.

The CBO report does need to be taken with some grains of salt, of course, since it's very hard to predict what's going to happen a few decades from now, but even so if it gets the deficit down at all I can't complain.

edit-Oh, and if you'd like some light reading they posted the full bill online:

http://rules.house.gov/bills_details.aspx?NewsID=4606
Don't think of it as a novel. Think of it as a chance to retroactively win every argument you have ever walked away from.

Cotigo

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Re: Politics '10: Keeping up with the Xornses.
« Reply #110 on: March 20, 2010, 02:56:57 AM »
So, an inkling of an idea struck me recently, particularly from the "old folk's home" comment made off hand a few days ago.  A large part of the inability to get things done in congress stems from a long list of things, but one of the core reasons seems to me to be the lack of term limits for congressional offices.  Whether an incumbent who hasn't been voted out of office and likely won't until the day they die or are charged with corruption, or an impotent Senator so afraid of voting a certain way because they don't want to see an early end to their political careers, it seems to me that forcing them out of office after a certain number of years (24?  18?  Less?  More?) would not only make it easier to clear the floors of incompetency, but would also give the younger generations, those not just more familiar with updating technology (a field congress is utterly incompetent about) but also those not so moronically ingrained in the Cold War mindset, a chance to fill the legislature before they're too old out of touch with the next generation's culture to be of use.

As you can tell by all the ambling this is a very half-formed idea. I'm not even certain at all if it would actually address the issue of congressional incompetence in a way that would actually solve anything.  But on the other hand, I can't come up with a good counter argument to the proposal (other than the obvious "neither legislative body would ever think of proposing it).  I'm also embarrassingly uninformed as to the constitutionality of such a proposal and about basic congressional procedures to bring this idea to coherency, but I think this is something that more people should be discussing, and I have no idea why I haven't seen anyone doing so. 

So... uh.  Discuss?

NotMiki

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Re: Politics '10: Keeping up with the Xornses.
« Reply #111 on: March 20, 2010, 03:14:20 AM »
Kinda busy, but I'll throw my 2 cents in: term limits are great, but only for the politicians you don't like.  There are a few congressmen I am genuinely grateful are continually reelected, Russ Feingold in particular, and they would mostly be out if term limits were applied (though maybe not if they're as long as you say).  It's probably true that lame duck politicians are bolder and more willing to vote their conscience, but two problems leap to mind.  First: Jim Bunning, not seeking reelection, recently held up benefits to people who really needed them, and probably wouldn't have if he weren't a lame duck.  Politicians voting their conscience is only good when they have one.  Second, term limits may have the perverse effect of exacerbating the problem of politicians voting for their corporate buddies, because now every congressperson is going to be angling for a cushy job in a few years, and you can bet they have dollar signs on the brain.

From a formal standpoint, term limits are undemocratic (and state-imposed term limits on congressmen are actually unconstitutional, though that could change).  They deny the people the opportunity to vote people into office that they might want to.  It's not necessarily a bad thing to have a government that is less democratic; we allow congress to "punish its Members for disorderly Behavior, and, with the Concurrence of two thirds, expel a Member," after all, whether the people of a state want them in or not.  (Rare, but it happens every once in a while, mostly for corruption.)
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metroid composite

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Re: Politics '10: Keeping up with the Xornses.
« Reply #112 on: March 20, 2010, 03:37:13 AM »
I'm not big on term limits as a general rule.  If it wasn't for term limits, Clinton would have probably stayed President and Bush Jr. would not have snuck in.

I think the main issue with America's high percentage of returning incumbents, is a combination of voter apathy (when you vote in America you have like...30 questions to answer; the lazy way to vote is to just vote along party lines).  And that the way the Senate works also encourages partisanship--for example, if you want Obama to pass the healthcare bill, you want a democrat senator; if you don't want the bill passed, you want a republican senator.  Oh, and let's not forget the Senate seniority mentioned earlier in this topic: if you want your state to be represented by a senator with more power in the senate, vote for the incumbent.

I would rather see the above issues addressed (which would also shorten how long the average senator stays around) instead of just doing term limits.  Though sure: I see your point about term limits and technology.

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Re: Politics '10: Keeping up with the Xornses.
« Reply #113 on: March 20, 2010, 06:54:12 AM »
http://news.firedoglake.com/2010/03/19/key-stupak-bloc-member-brad-ellsworth-reportedly-a-yes/

2 votes needed after this one.

I'd say it's in the bag at this point, but if there's anything Democrats are good at it's grasping defeat from the jaws of victory.
Don't think of it as a novel. Think of it as a chance to retroactively win every argument you have ever walked away from.

Grefter

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Re: Politics '10: Keeping up with the Xornses.
« Reply #114 on: March 20, 2010, 11:14:01 AM »
I'm not big on term limits as a general rule.  If it wasn't for term limits, Clinton would have probably stayed President and Bush Jr. would not have snuck in.

Without term limits Clinton wouldn't have been president, we would have been blessed with another 16 years of Reagan and enjoyed all the joy that would have gone with that for the world.   

I think that this is another problem that stems for the society and that needing to be fixed, there isn't anything inherently wrong with your system there, the problem that is wrong is with the people who you are putting into the system that are the problem.  There are better ways to try and fix the problem than fine tuning the system.  You either need to clean out the people or abolish the system.
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Hunter Sopko

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Re: Politics '10: Keeping up with the Xornses.
« Reply #115 on: March 20, 2010, 12:53:52 PM »
http://news.firedoglake.com/2010/03/19/key-stupak-bloc-member-brad-ellsworth-reportedly-a-yes/

2 votes needed after this one.

I'd say it's in the bag at this point, but if there's anything Democrats are good at it's grasping defeat from the jaws of victory.

I've really started to swing the other way on Healthcare at this point. I wouldn't want the bill as it stands to pass at this point.

metroid composite

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Re: Politics '10: Keeping up with the Xornses.
« Reply #116 on: March 20, 2010, 03:34:23 PM »
I'm not big on term limits as a general rule.  If it wasn't for term limits, Clinton would have probably stayed President and Bush Jr. would not have snuck in.

Without term limits Clinton wouldn't have been president, we would have been blessed with another 16 years of Reagan and enjoyed all the joy that would have gone with that for the world.   
Would he?  First off, Clinton ousted an incumbent, so he already proved himself popular enough to do so.  Arguably Bush Sr was less popular than Regan, so I'll grant it could go either way.  But then again, there are those who would argue Clinton would have won regardless of republican opponent because Ross Perot was splitting the votes on the right.  But okay, let's assume Reagan could have kept running--we already know he wouldn't have.  Partway through 1989 he left office because he was diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease.  In short, it seems highly unlikely that he would ever have run for a third term.

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Re: Politics '10: Keeping up with the Xornses.
« Reply #117 on: March 21, 2010, 05:46:01 PM »
http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/03/21/health.care.main/index.html?hpt=T1

Dude says Democrats have the necessary 216. This isn't necessarily a done deal, though, since votes can and have changed once they get to the floor.

They meet at 1pm EST, but there's gonna be hours of debating before anything gets voted on.
Don't think of it as a novel. Think of it as a chance to retroactively win every argument you have ever walked away from.

AAA

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Re: Politics '10: Keeping up with the Xornses.
« Reply #118 on: March 22, 2010, 04:00:52 PM »
And they passed it yesterday. Once it gets into Obama's hands it'll be signed and become law.

Republicans are doing some delaying measures (voting to return the bill to committee because of the abortion language for example), but it's essentially a done deal at this point.
Don't think of it as a novel. Think of it as a chance to retroactively win every argument you have ever walked away from.

Shale

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Re: Politics '10: Keeping up with the Xornses.
« Reply #119 on: March 22, 2010, 08:55:02 PM »
I've really started to swing the other way on Healthcare at this point. I wouldn't want the bill as it stands to pass at this point.

Yeah, hear hear. We're going to make sure everybody has health insurance...by making it illegal not to have health insurance! Man, if only we'd known this was so easy years ago -- next we can outlaw poverty.
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superaielman

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Re: Politics '10: Keeping up with the Xornses.
« Reply #120 on: March 22, 2010, 08:57:31 PM »
I dislike both the way the bill was debated and brought about and what it's doing. It isn't actually addressing some of the problems of the health care industry, just restricting insurance companies (Fuck them regardless) and the aforementioned ban on people being without insurance. I... well, we'll see. I think this is going to cost the democrats in the fall elections in a big way.
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Taishyr

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Re: Politics '10: Keeping up with the Xornses.
« Reply #121 on: March 22, 2010, 10:05:57 PM »
I'd agree on it costing them in the fall elections except the republicans seem to be acting even more idiotically on a federal level, at least from my point of view. But yeah, we'll see. All I can really say is that my personal favorite maxim's still holding true - when elephants fight, it's the grass that suffers.

(edit: if not obvious, elephants refers to dem/repub, not just repub.)

Cotigo

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Re: Politics '10: Keeping up with the Xornses.
« Reply #122 on: March 22, 2010, 10:18:16 PM »
Really, I'm sick of both parties.  The democrats are mostly spineless shills in the pockets of the insurance company, and the Republicans are mostly retarded, spiteful shills in the pockets of the insurance company.  I'm hoping that the political fallout from all this ass-buggery doesn't mean returning the Republicans to power--instead, it should mean the formation of new parties whose goal is to goddamn GOVERN and not just kick sand in the face of "the other guys".

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Re: Politics '10: Keeping up with the Xornses.
« Reply #123 on: March 22, 2010, 10:52:59 PM »
Soooooo is there anything in the bill regulating the pricing on the enforced health care plans or something in there about the government starting up its own insurance company which can offer the lowest rates to prevent this from becoming a giant clusterfuck?

Fail way to solve health care guys.  Bang up job.
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Shale

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Re: Politics '10: Keeping up with the Xornses.
« Reply #124 on: March 22, 2010, 10:56:15 PM »
something in there about the government starting up its own insurance company which can offer the lowest rates to prevent this from becoming a giant clusterfuck?

There used to be, but they cut it out to try and get Republicans on board.

How'd that work out again? Oh yeah.
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