Politics '11: Keeping up with the Xornses

[Idun]

Greece is defaulting on its debt. First EU country to do so.

[Grefter]

Hoooooooly fuck.  Not shocking, but holy fuck.

[Shale]

Does that mean Republicans will back off the idea, since the socialist Europeans are doing it?

[Grefter]

Republicans were seriously considering it?  I thought it was just all dick waving because actually defaulting will be amazingly terrible for both the US and world economies.

[Shale]

They generally consider that a positive.

[NotMiki]

If the GOP allows the US to default, Wall St. will be funding Democrats next election.  Additionally, polling has shown (thus far) that people want the ceiling raised and that they blame both parties for not coming to an agreement on it.  However, even self-identified Republicans blame the GOP more than they blame the president for the failure to agree.  Cross your fingers that's enough incentive for House Republicans.

[VySaika]

http://boingboing.net/2011/08/02/wisconsin-democratic-voters-targeted-with-koch-funded-absentee-ballot-notices-advising-them-to-vote-2-days-after-the-recall-election.html

Here's a headdesker. -_-

[NotMiki]

That's gonna be trouble for the distributors.  Usually when you hear about stuff like that it's tough to prove who did what, exactly.  Doesn't seem like the case here.

Anyway, I have about zero desire to talk about the debt ceiling, so let me just echo the rest of the country: fuck you, Congress.  Particularly you, Republicans.
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/08/cbsnyt-poll-congressional-disapproval-at-an-all-time-high.php?ref=fpblg

[superaielman]

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2011/08/awesome_3.php?ref=fpblg A much cooler TPM link. I thought Christie was going to throw his water bottle at the moron who asked him the Sharia law question.

[Hunter Sopko]

New Jersey. Somehow proving politicians can be sane.

[NotMiki]

*cough*

[Shale]

...and the US's credit rating is now downgraded for the first time in 80-odd years.

Thanks, Republicans!

[Hunter Sopko]

*cough*

I said sane. Not uncorruptable.

[Idun]

...and the US's credit rating is now downgraded for the first time in 80-odd years.

Thanks, Republicans!

Yeah, what are we now -- AA+, right? Originally AAA+?  This'll have negative implications for consumer borrowing rates, since the government is going to have higher borrowing rates. I can only imagine my unsubsidized student loans, and how much even 600+ dollars could affect my payback amounts.

On Shale's Republican note, I figured I could provide some intriguing reading material from Robert Reich, 22nd Secretary of Labor, on what I call "On Republicans, Reconsidering Roosevelt and Remuneration." I simply like this alliteration.

http://www.alternet.org/economy/151922/why_we_can_thank_republicans_for_a_double-dip_recession/comments/

We need a bold jobs bill to restart the economy. Eliminate payroll taxes on the first $20,000 of income for two years. Recreate the WPA and the Civilian Conservation Corps. The federal government should lend money to cash-strapped states and local governments. Give employers tax credits for net new jobs. Amend the bankruptcy laws to allow distressed homeowners to declare bankruptcy on their primary residence. Extend unemployment insurance. Provide partial unemployment benefits to people who have lost part-time jobs. Start an infrastructure bank.

I'm uninterested in the accusatory, and noticeably partisan side of politics. I must admit I enjoy seeing thoughts like this bubbling up through the cracks, especially from people with political gusto. I believe these ideas were also echoed in chat by some secret Democratic Socialists. I support these ideas anyway. The irony in all this is that I feel many Americans are trying to move away from labor-intensive or simple clerical work in hopes for something more bourgeois. Though, I totally wouldn't mind the federal funding for art programs and initiatives considering our government's growing philistine reactions to the arts.

[Shale]

Oh, I think both sides are morons overall, but this was the Republicans - the Tea Party wing in particular - starting a major fight over a procedural vote to allow borrowing they already voted for in this year's budget. It was stupid and duplicitous and will have very real negative consequences that could have been avoided by not being assholes.

[Cmdr_King]

cursory following suggest that the only blame to lay at Democratic feet is Obama and other leaders not having the balls to stick to their guns when compromise was so obviously not enough.  Those revenue increases HAD to come through and didn't because no one fought for them.

[Idun]

Shale, yeah. I didn't mean to imply that you were accusatory (I was sorta responding to the comments hoopla on that article).

[Grefter]

The funny response to that would have been to tell Shale that it is all his fault.

[NotMiki]

cursory following suggest that the only blame to lay at Democratic feet is Obama and other leaders not having the balls to stick to their guns when compromise was so obviously not enough.  Those revenue increases HAD to come through and didn't because no one fought for them.

I don't think that's quite right.  Despite what S&P said about taxes the real problem they had wasn't long-term but short-term.  Make no mistake, the US is being punished for the debt ceiling crisis, not being neutrally adjudged of our future creditworthiness.  So much of the world's debt is invested in US dollars that until all that money can be disentangled it's almost meaningless to talk about our creditworthiness.  We owe money in dollars, and we have the capability to print as many of them as we want.  If we sink, China and the world sinks with us, which means as a practical matter that in the short to mid-term we're incapable of sinking.  Unless someone on the inside sabotages the boat.  We're being punished because it's structurally possible for Congress to cause the US to default, and they recently demonstrated that they were willing to take that risk.  If the US had reached a deal a month ago that included zero revenue but increased the debt ceiling anyway, I'm confident we wouldn't have faced a downgrade.

Where I've heard Democrats are truly at fault, and this seems correct to me, is that they did not insist on raising the debt ceiling in exchange for allowing the Bush tax cuts to continue until 2012.  Those tax cuts were set to expire in 2010, which means that Democrats had a structural advantage at that point in time - all they had to do was not agree to deal and the cuts would have expired automatically.  This is the mirror of the advantage Republicans had in the debt ceiling debate.  And political analysts contemporaneously were scratching their heads that Obama didn't demand a debt ceiling increase at the time.  So you can blame Obama, and Democrats in general, for not driving a harder bargain last December when they were the ones with the upper hand.  Let's hope they get this right next time the cuts are set to expire.

(Oh, but don't let that stop you from blaming the GOP first and foremost.  Blaming Democrats for the downgrade is like blaming SWAT when hijackers shoot the hostages.)

EDIT: managed to make it through a whole argument without using a single one of the many and various bad words I used when I was talking about this in chat!  Yay civility?

[Cmdr_King]

The general point being "Democrats are at fault only in that they won't fucking stick to their guns and raise taxes like everyone knows needs done", and the debate is a matter of WHEN they needed to get that shit done.

[Cotigo]

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2011/08/20118923045869251.html

The best line:

"Having judges second guess the decisions made by the armed forces halfway around the world is no way to wage a war," attorney David Rivkin said in a statement on Monday.

"It saps the effectiveness of the military, puts American soldiers at risk, and shackles federal officials who have a constitutional duty to protect America."

LOL

[Lady Door]

Re: the downgrade: http://www.thedoghousediaries.com/?p=2945

[NotMiki]

The best line:

"Having judges second guess the decisions made by the armed forces halfway around the world is no way to wage a war," attorney David Rivkin said in a statement on Monday.

I musta missed the announcement where Donald Rumsfeld decided to relocate the Department of Defense to Iraq.

[Grefter]

http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/08/13/pokemon-movie-quoted-herman-cain-gop-presidential-candidate/

I am disappointed in all of you not focussing on the important issues at hand to this community.

When a presidential candidate is quoting Pokemon movies during speeches I expect to know THAT day from you people, not two weeks later on a comics website archive.

[Cmdr_King]

He says so much insane stuff pokemon quotes don't really stand out.