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Author Topic: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!  (Read 355706 times)

Excal

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1625 on: April 07, 2010, 10:15:48 PM »
Right, I occasionally play games.

Recently tried Dragon Age.  Did the Human Noble beginning, or at least most of it.  Ended up stopping because the company that was expected arrived, and there were better things to do at that point.  I could see myself playing it, but it seems like yet another WRPG in the Bioware/Bethesda model.  I know most of the battles I was in mostly consisted of smashing A a whole heck of a lot.  Maybe it gets better, but I'm not inclined to think so.  Especially with the ever present commentary I was getting from the fans that I was not playing a mage, and therefore was playing the game wrong.  Then again, the anti-fans cancel them out, so yay neutrality?

Also got in a brief unmentioned Blue Dragon session.  I like this game more than Dragon Age, but for some reason I can't make myself want to play it for anything more than brief sessions.  I suppose this is technically a good thing, but it feels like a flaw.  Especially since later on I know it'll turn into not wanting to play it at all.  And I can't put my finger on why.  Probably something to do with the battle system, which feels like a cross between FF3, 5, and 10, and poorer for it.  Toriyama art also does not help, since...  yeah.  The guy can't draw anything different to save his life, and the guy's overdone.  Then again, not being able to play more than once in a blue moon may also be part of it.

Now for things which I am actually playing as opposed to just sampling and tossing out thoughts on!

RotTK7 - For those who don't know, Romance of the Three Kingdoms, a strategy game set in the same time period as Dynasty Warriors (came first, though seems to be far less popular).  Bought this ages ago, but finally got on a kick to just up and beat it.  So, for the first time ever, I did do just that.  I think the option to skip fights that your character isn't personally involved in does a lot to speed things up when you get to the point where victory is a foregone conclusion.  (China is big.  And when you own 3/4 of the map, nothing is going to stop you, but there's still a lot of map left to get!)  Started up a new game where I actually try out starting as a ruler, because some of the new ruler mechanics are interesting, but working your way up usually means you get to that stage way too late for them to either still be in play, or for them to be feasable in any way except as fine tuning the automation they give you.

Which does bring me to the main reason why I prefer this version to the others in the series.  Seeing as it lets you play as a specific officer, they need to give officers autonomy as well as have ways to make you have to rely on your officers when you have power.  What does this mean?  It means that when you rule, not only can you not give every officer you rule orders, but you don't have to.  They will actually do things on their own if you leave them be.  While you just focus on getting the big things done.  So, if you set the right orders along, then your people will do their thing and you save a lot of time in telling Blow Joe to train his troops, again.

Also helped that recent playthroughs helped me learn some of the aspects of the system I had never run into before, which gave me a bit more appreciation for the combat itself.  In some ways, this makes the early bits far more enjoyable, since now if I'm having issues, it's because I'm being an idiot and I know how to fix it, or at least mitigate it.  Though, it does mean that later on, combat becomes boring, since the CPU has lost its only edge.


Growlanser II - The Scent of Justice
After a short stint of barreling through this, it got derailed briefly by the dual threat of Three Kingdoms and Mega Men.  Currently at this annoying battle that comprises magic spam and dissolving floors.  That said, my last try almost beat it, and I suspect it'll only take one more push to get through.  Only really notable character is Hans, who seems to have gotten a proper Working Designs treatment.  Wait, right.  Whatshername died, and there was much rejoicing.  Fortunately, the potential wangst got rapidly smacked out of Wayne, and it will hopefully stay that way.


Megaman 10
Yeah, playing through this.  Only beaten around half the bosses, and having issues with figuring out which weapon works on which boss.  Figure this will be necessary given that I'm having issues with the patterns so far.  Oh well, at least I can beat most of the levels that aren't Commando or Solar in nature now.


SRWJ
What's this about being consistant about what I play?  Anyways, just beat map 47, on the Earth Route, because I always choose the Nadesco route when these things present themselves.  Not really much to report, except that the Mazinger pair is stupid on damage, and the Aestis are a good secondary source now that they all have combos.  Though, to be fair, those are also among the units with the most cash pumped into them.  I would like to apologise to all those who said the B. Brigandi's MAP attack rocked, and I scoffed.  I mean, it's no Psybuster, but it's close.  And it at least comes on a unit with EN Regen.  Another neat thing I've noticed is that the random attack the Aestis gained ignores barriers.  I'll need to see anyone else comes with stuff like that, but it's a nice quiet upgrade.  That said, so looking forward to actually just beating this thing so I can shelve it until the translation patch comes out.

Yoshiken

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1626 on: April 07, 2010, 10:28:18 PM »
Hatbot Heart Gold: Because I hadn't been screwed over enough!

So, it seems my luck decided I was getting too used to not having Fly and it needed to screw me over in more creative ways! The best way to do this? Coming back from fighting Blaine, I head north from Pallet and this is nothing to worry about since I already have Rattata and Pidgey, right?

Lv 2 Poochyena.

Oh.

Lv 71 Nidoqueen is replaced.

OH SHI---

Sigh. I have a Snorlax. This'll be fine. So, I get slaughtered a few times by Mt. Moon rival, train more, train against him, go east to Cerulean to train more and find Zapdos. Zappy's not there yet, so back to Diglett's Cave and--

Wait, what do you mean Nidoqueen had Cut? More importantly, what do you mean my current team CAN'T FREAKING LEARN IT?!

asdaryf47itruielsf483cfebgks./

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Captain K.

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1627 on: April 07, 2010, 11:13:52 PM »
HGSS- So I nabbed the Yellow Road Saturday, and spent most of the weekend a) learning how the system for items/pokemon off the walker really worked  and b) employing this to get a Surfing Pikachu.  The after a few days on part a, half an hour of dedicated spending Watts gets me a Surfer off a !! encounter!  Naturally, it's Jolly.  I'm levelling it up anyway, to see just whether the SAtk's really unsalvagable or not.  No Light Ball yet, despite putting several hours into that, but given the cost gap involved and seeing as I have to level up the pikachu anyway, no big there.

For those trying to figure out the wacky randomness of Pokewalker, take a look at this instead:  http://www.serebii.net/heartgoldsoulsilver/pokewalker-area.shtml

HG:  Forgot to mention that my Togetic got Pokerus, which is the first time I've gotten it in any game.  Yay obscure game feature.

Yoshiken

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1628 on: April 07, 2010, 11:30:02 PM »
Oh, missed CK's post about that. I think I got hold of about 3 Light Balls, so I can send you one over at some point if you want/are able to. Just poke me in chat about it.

I, on the other hand, use up over 550 Watts trying to get a Flying/Surfing Pikachu and got neither. If I didn't have the Battle Revolution Surfing/Volt Tackling Pika, I'd probably be a little annoyed.

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1629 on: April 07, 2010, 11:38:52 PM »
I was lucky enough to get a Surfing Pika on the first !! patch that I caught successfully on day one of Yellow Forest release. Timid too, albeit with lowish IVs. I stopped at that point since that was lucky enough and I don't care about Flying Pika.

I also got a Light Ball, which is frankly useless since I'm not using Pikachu on HG and I have infinite cloned Light Balls in Emerald that I could import whenever I want.

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1630 on: April 07, 2010, 11:43:17 PM »
Heart Gold: Crossing the sea, and fighting Chuck. He got a few Focus Punches out that managed to kill, but I was never in any real danger as Ampharos basically outpowered him. Gave Fly to my HootHoot, went around to catch up on some upkeep (Apricorn balls, picking up eggs from Pimpy and Bill's Eevee, Apricorn getting), and I'm about to get some hardcore training done at the Lake of Rage.

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Anthony Edward Stark

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1631 on: April 07, 2010, 11:44:29 PM »
Recently tried Dragon Age.  Did the Human Noble beginning, or at least most of it.  Ended up stopping because the company that was expected arrived, and there were better things to do at that point.  I could see myself playing it, but it seems like yet another WRPG in the Bioware/Bethesda model.  I know most of the battles I was in mostly consisted of smashing A a whole heck of a lot.  Maybe it gets better, but I'm not inclined to think so.  Especially with the ever present commentary I was getting from the fans that I was not playing a mage, and therefore was playing the game wrong.  Then again, the anti-fans cancel them out, so yay neutrality?

If you're not playing a Mage, you're not going to end up as the game-breaking Arcane Warrior, but I'm personally okay with that. I wouldn't say it's the wrong way. I found the Rogue (Duelist/Assassin) to be more fun to play as anyway, since it's the only class that gets to throw salt in people's eyes and then kick them in the dick/vagoo.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1632 on: April 08, 2010, 12:49:24 AM »
The people saying "JRPG gameplay sucks" crack me up because by putting the J in front of it you are implying that WRPG gameplay is somehow less repetitive, when in my time watching Dragon Age I have just watched the player repeat the same combat action over and over. And in general the WRPGs I have played feature fewer strategic choices, often due to controlling fewer (one) PCs, or just being a highly simplistic D&D knockoff, or both.

The better JRPGs for gameplay (FFT, FFX, G3, etc., other people can sub in the ones they like) are far above this and reward intelligent use of different party members and their skills at appropriate times. Some of us find this very fun. If you don't like the genre as a whole, that's pretty reasonable as all of us have genres we dislike gameplaywise (RTS for me) but belabouring the point at every opportunity on a site (and particular a forum thread) that basically revolves around JRPG gameplay is rather tactless. I mean, I think Starcraft is a pile of crap, but you don't see me going to Battle.net and voicing that on a once-per-week basis.

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Shale

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1633 on: April 08, 2010, 12:52:05 AM »
And the better WRPGs for gameplay tower over BioWare's garbage anyway.
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Excal

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1634 on: April 08, 2010, 01:27:10 AM »
Honestly, Elf, I'd peg wRPG as a genre for which you'd not have much love period.  Even the ones I like, and enjoy the gameplay for, I doubt you'd like since they're essentially single person affairs where you still need to roleplay or otherwise pick dialogue.  Oh, and yes, they involve the NPCs having voice acting, but never the PC.

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1635 on: April 08, 2010, 01:37:17 AM »
The people saying "JRPG gameplay sucks" crack me up because by putting the J in front of it you are implying that WRPG gameplay is somehow less repetitive, when in my time watching Dragon Age I have just watched the player repeat the same combat action over and over. And in general the WRPGs I have played feature fewer strategic choices, often due to controlling fewer (one) PCs, or just being a highly simplistic D&D knockoff, or both.

Gameplay is more than just "how combat works." If FFXIII had the best combat system ever, it's gameplay would still be subpar because of the parts of gameplay that aren't fighting. You know, like exploration, NPC interaction, alternate methods of accomplishing goals (stealth/diplomacy/sabotage/outright bribery/whatever), sidequesting, and so on. It is, after all, a "role-playing game" and not a "power-levelling game."

Hunter Sopko

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1636 on: April 08, 2010, 01:39:00 AM »
Even D&D gameplay (ie combat mechanics) is pretty shitty too. 4th edition managed to streamline everything, but also make it incredibly boring. 3rd was disorganized but slightly more dynamic. The gameplay plusses from D&D all come from the freeform RP aspect.

Excal

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1637 on: April 08, 2010, 01:43:37 AM »
And there's some people where that kind of stuff isn't interesting.  If that doesn't appeal to you, then jRPGs don't carry the significant flaws you're assigning to them.  I mean, wRPGs typically have weaker combat, but make up for it by having everything outside of combat be a lot more flexible.  jRPGs have what's outside combat be a lot less flexible in order to have a story that happens in a certain way, and compensate for this with combat systems that are somewhat divorced from the rest of the game, but which also tend to be a lot more innovative and interesting.

So, yeah.  It's understood that jRPG mechanics do not appeal to some of the people here.  Please accept that the rest of us are not blind to the fact that the genre has deficiencies, but simply that they are not things that bother us.  More to the point, we don't need you guys hanging out on the forum that is mostly devoted to fans of the genre and constantly bitching at us that we should not like the things that we like.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1638 on: April 08, 2010, 01:48:02 AM »
EDIT: Honestly, Excal said this better than I was going to. Posting anyway~


Exploration and sidequesting I just don't give a fuck about in general. I guess they're gameplay but whatever to them, RPGs have gotten better since toning down on it. Alternate methods of victory are cool enough, yes, though too often are probably going to be arbitrary. Taking bribing, for instance... either the game designers have decided "Bribe" works, or it doesn't. Or it's based on a random d20 roll. Neither option is especially appealing. An interesting dialog tree to avoid combat could be good, but again, just feels like too often it will boil down to "FAQ the correct choices". Basically these are things that I find intriguing but I have yet to see done in a way that impresses me. If you're impressed by it, cool, more power to you. I just don't consider it a major weakness to force things into combat (WHY CAN'T MARIO TALK TO THE GOOMBAS?!?). Forcing things into combat isn't exactly a good message to send to children, but within combat there's a huge amount of stylistic decisions the player can make for how to put together a party and achieve victory.

NPC interaction overall files clearly under plot to me, and there's no reason a game that features WRPG style NPC interaction couldn't have fun combat. They just tend not to. Combat is pretty much the focus of most RPG -gameplay-, even most WRPGs. So it should damn well be done well and be interesting, whatever other design decisions the game makes. To simply dismiss it as "it sucks, let's focus on other things" is ensuring you are going to design a bad game from a pure gameplay perspective, and while such games can be worth playing (Torment, Xenogears, whatever) they should not be a design goal.

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Luther Lansfeld

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1639 on: April 08, 2010, 01:50:36 AM »
If I want alternative dialogue options and flexibility, I will play D&D, personally~~ It's kind of the same thing except you can interact with human beings instead of a computer. My problem with the alternate options in the WRPGs I've played is it seems like a lot of them are the hur hur I can be EVIL!!! and do BAD THINGS!! If you do this in D&D you will get a swift boot in the ass from the person who is your DM.

I mostly came in here to say that I really disagree with Sopko in that I think 4th Edition is super-fun gameplaywise~ So many positioning tricks and strategy and all that and you can make the field in so many different ways, and most of the characters are balanced and actually fun to play as. As an SRPG fan, I really think it adds a lot to the system.
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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1640 on: April 08, 2010, 01:57:15 AM »
Oh no! Different people have different opinions on things! The world, it is ending~

But seriously. Different people will not only like certain things in games, but also look for different things. 's how it goes. If you don't like something, avoid it. If you do, look for it. I dunno. Seems kinda simple to me, really.

As for games I'm playing: Just started Edgeworth Investigations, and I know why people say they hold your hand. Also not liking the new characters at all. They're all just massive douches, who need a boot to the ass and out the door. They're not even funny in how they do it, either, which is a shame. Hopefully it improves, as I'm only just past the first investigation of 5-2. Do like the new mechanics, though I'll admit that I'm not able to make some of the jumps Edgeworth is, but hey: Phoenix Wright universe. Nothing makes sense there.
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Anthony Edward Stark

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1641 on: April 08, 2010, 02:00:38 AM »
If I want alternative dialogue options and flexibility, I will play D&D, personally~~ It's kind of the same thing except you can interact with human beings instead of a computer. My problem with the alternate options in the WRPGs I've played is it seems like a lot of them are the hur hur I can be EVIL!!! and do BAD THINGS!! If you do this in D&D you will get a swift boot in the ass from the person who is your DM.

BioWare's dumb like that a lot of the time, yeah. Play you some Deus Ex. It's... basically the greatest game ever.

Excal

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1642 on: April 08, 2010, 02:06:08 AM »
I'd argue the good/evil thing is pretty pervasive in wRPGs in general, and that the ones that avoid that trap are the notable exceptions.  But, eh.  At this point you're getting into the flaws that might not be inherent in the genre but might as well be because so few people avoid them (kinda like little/no NPC interaction in jRPGs) .

Anthony Edward Stark

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1643 on: April 08, 2010, 02:34:32 AM »
I don't know, people ragged on BioWare so hard for it that they replaced it with a "good cop/bad cop" meter for Mass Effect and removed it all together for Dragon Age. It's a fairly widespread criticism among the base.

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1644 on: April 08, 2010, 02:46:43 AM »
If I want alternative dialogue options and flexibility, I will play D&D, personally~~ It's kind of the same thing except you can interact with human beings instead of a computer. My problem with the alternate options in the WRPGs I've played is it seems like a lot of them are the hur hur I can be EVIL!!! and do BAD THINGS!! If you do this in D&D you will get a swift boot in the ass from the person who is your DM.

BioWare's dumb like that a lot of the time, yeah. Play you some Deus Ex. It's... basically the greatest game ever.

Deus Ex has a different issue altogether, if you can call it an "issue" (this is more lack of a better word; I do not mean to put down Deus Ex in any way, shape or form, please do not take this the wrong way.)  That being that its a Cross Genre game; its an FPS combined with an RPG.  This very obviously will NOT appeal to people, me being one of those.

I can acknowledge Deus Ex for what it is and what not, but I look at the game and I say to myself "can I ever see myself playing this game?" and the answer is no.  Reason?  I'm not a fan of FPSes.  It may do the RPG thing really well, but its still got FPS gameplay, which makes it really hard for someone whose not into the genre at all (like myself) to enjoy. 

So yeah, Deus Ex maybe good for what it is, but its also gonna be well received by totally different people too.
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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1645 on: April 08, 2010, 03:03:16 AM »
Thinking about this stuff leads me to a realization about Valkyria Chronicles that's kinda been bugging me; its menus are terrible. They're slow to navigate, buttons map differently depending on where you are (looking through troop profiles in headquarters, pressing circle gets you more information; in the field, pressing circle activates the unit), and worst of all you don't get all the information you should everywhere (most egregiously, in the command room where you select your units you don't see class potentials, which are arguably a character's single most important feature).

Still enjoying the game a lot (Chapter 11), but the menus are definitely weak.

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1646 on: April 08, 2010, 05:34:02 AM »
I never really noticed the menu problem myself, but I'd believe it on reflection. There are a lot of small problems with VC in that regard (I think it was you who mentioned that one of the best things to do is blitz a map, see where enemies attack, and rest). Sega did so much right with the game in terms of gameplay that I'm willing to ignore those. If only the scoring system wasn't so bad. And Maximillian wasn't a wanker.

« Last Edit: April 08, 2010, 05:47:46 AM by superaielman »
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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1647 on: April 08, 2010, 11:38:23 AM »

Well, right, and this is why having some depth to your game beyond making a "boop" sound when you move the menu cursor is a good idea.

And definitely there's streamlining that can be done.  For instance, the human brain can only weigh about 7 options simultaneously.  Pokemon is well-streamlined--when you're selecting a move you have four options; when you're changing Pokemon you have 5 options.  Fire Emblem also does this in places--like if I'm not mistaken you still carry 5 items.  When selecting supports, there's usually at most 7 support choices (note that using 7 itself is often slightly borderline--the brain is probably considering the back button as one of its 7 options).  When making a custom weapon, you can choose to modify 4 aspects.  If it's using the same weapon system, there are 8 weapon types to choose from (4 magic, 4 physical, so magic/physical split probably keeps us from going over the 7 cap), and within each of those weapon types, there's 4-5 different metals (bronze, iron, killer, steel, silver?)

So...yes: there is also informational design that goes into Fire Emblem menus to make them more fun (unlike the Start->AllPrograms menu in windows).

You are sort of brushing past grouping.  You can have an amazingly complex whole so long as each individual part of it sums up to something simple on the layer above.  Working with say 7 choices at a macro level, drop down to each of those 7 things having 5 things you can do with it and then 3 on the third level down, you still have a fairly complex system with a lot of permutations of choice there, but you can manage it fairly easilly with by grouping results.  Of course natural in game balance issues (or design) will cut down the number of good choices you can make even smaller than that which helps hugely to making large systems easy for people to use.

To keep hating on FF13 as example, the problem there is you have for the most part 6 variables (Of which you pick 3) with a set of 3 options beneath them which you mix and match then underneath that a pile of say 10 (this is being nice) options underneath it that the game just decides is far to cumbersome for you and it will look after that shit for you.  Then it stops you having to worry about any of that shit at all for 2 of your three original picks.  So your majour choices are all decided at a macro level before you have any data then when you get to the meat and potatoes of the combat system you deal with a minor part of the most cumbersome part of the combat while shuffling between a set of options you picked earlier.

And out of all the parts the game you have the most choice over (which characters you will use and their party make up), the game is so inflexible that the basic choices are all predefined for you. You want to always have quick access to someone in Commando.  You want as many people available as Ravager as possible at any given time.  You want to heal sometimes, you want to debuff and you will probably want to buff.  Rarely you will want a defender.  So you jam that into your six slots you can build your party into and almost all of your decision making is done for you.  You either won the fight half an hour ago because your default setup will beat it or the game cock blocks you by going LOL YOU HAD NO IDEA THAT WAS COMING and makes you play defensively once every hour and a half, but you will need to run into it and die to get any data.  By the time you are dead you know what to do (but you can't do much about it until you have).  Your choices for the next fight are finished about 30 seconds into the last one.

This fails to be compelling.

This is what I mean by FF13 tries to streamline things and goes about it the wrong way.  They streamlined out the actual interesting choice.  Mass Effect 2 on the other hand took out he choices between 80 different kinds of gun that do the exact same thing and replaces it with a cast of about 8 characters spread out over about 5 different basic jobs which each does one or 2 well to varying degrees, the game controls these for you but you can issue direct and targetted commands at any time (including positioning) and then gives you the main character who you have full control of the system over, you have at most 5 skills, one of which is passive.  At the end of each skill tree you get to make a choice between 2 slight variatons on the skills. 

You see the difference?  FF13 is a starts about the right width, cuts in sharply and then spews out to nearly twice the size of the original choice and knows you don't want to deal with its shit so tells you not to bother.

ME 2 starts fairly broad, but groups it into a smaller subset that is easy to juggle then tapers down reducing complexity as you go.  Far more streamlined and leaving the player in control the whole time.

Edit - No I am not sure why I keep talking about this when no one else is talking to me.  I guess I feel the need to lecture people or something.
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Yoshiken

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1648 on: April 08, 2010, 12:05:53 PM »
Yay Pokewalker! Uploaded Pokes from yesterday earlier - got both Surfing and Volt Tackling Pikas. On my actual file, I'm repeatedly losing to a random trainer near Vermillion. Yay lack of decent levels. -.-

Shale

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1649 on: April 08, 2010, 07:35:56 PM »
Heart Gold: ARGHLE GHOST GYM. I made the mistake of sending in Furrett, which has only Normal moves, against the leader's Gengar so I could heal up the rest of the party while immuning his super-annoying Shadow Ball. So naturally he stopped spamming Shadow Ball and Mean Looked at the Furrett. So Furrett can't hurt Gengar at all, but is also immune to its only good damage, and using all its shots of Sucker Punch still wasn't enough to kill. So I got to just sit there spamming Defense Curl in between Hypnosis shots until it used up all its PP and killed itself with Struggle. Whee.

In case you're wondering why I didn't mention the rest of the gym it's because every other fight got murdered to death by Kadabra.
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[23:02] <Veryslightlymad> CK dreams about me starring in porno?
[23:02] <CmdrKing> Pretty sure.