Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!

[superaielman]

The problem's been balancing the teams, really.

Super curses whatever team he's on, unless it has Laggy AND Trips together, in which case it dominates the world.  It probably would be more balanced with 8, though - that way the teams could be more dilute/concentrated as needed.

I'd like to get better at versus, but yeah. We have three really good players (Eph, Trips, Laggy) and then everyone else. It's why balancing it is tough. It is hard to practice versus as well, since you need four players for even a simple game. Maybe play more 2 vs 2 games for that?

Edit: The only way to play as the infected vs the AI is to use a dedicated versus server and play a coop game?

[OblivionKnight]

The problem's been balancing the teams, really.

Super curses whatever team he's on, unless it has Laggy AND Trips together, in which case it dominates the world.  It probably would be more balanced with 8, though - that way the teams could be more dilute/concentrated as needed.

I'd like to get better at versus, but yeah. We have three really good players (Eph, Trips, Laggy) and then everyone else. It's why balancing it is tough. It is hard to practice versus as well, since you need four players for even a simple game. Maybe play more 2 vs 2 games for that?

Edit: The only way to play as the infected vs the AI is to use a dedicated versus server and play a coop game?

Hey, don't put Nitori, myself, Zenny, and everyone else on the same level as you!

[superaielman]

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sounds of you missing me yet again with a charge.

[Shale]

I'm telling you, Molotovs.

[OblivionKnight]

Charger and Hunter I'm not exactly great with.  I can still Smoke and Boom you damn fine >_>

[Talaysen]

Re: Formula opacity: There's really no excuse for a game to not at least give you something like Fire: Power 25, Megainferno: Power 280 in tooltips so you can easily refer to the power of a skill at a glance. Just feeling them out CAN be a pain especially in more exotic systems and you don't know if you're hitting elemental resistance/weakness/abnormally high/low defense or whatever.

For a particularly tedious example see VP2.

This.  Very much this.  Not to mention that if you put down a game for awhile, you won't even remember any of the conclusions you came to while feeling things out and will have to do that ALL OVER AGAIN.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

*nods @ Snow* Did you try the Strike/Crit Booster oils yet? Also on other twink related matters have you found any shiny Mind's Eyes for Yuri/Joe yet? There's also the Extreme which should be coming up soon, that can be a bit of a pain depending on your skills with the RNG though. Oh and think there's a point of no return as far as the Extreme's concerned. I can't remember for sure though but yeah might be worth a FAQ. Kurando can also make use of Mind's Eye/Extreme =-)

The only Mind's Eyes I'd try would be magical. I'm not that good with Judgment Rings though I like the system well enough, and physicals can be a massive pain in the ass to memorize with ME. I even have a couple, but didn't bother. My modus operandi is going much like it went in SH3: technical rings+Warlock/Demon Earrings for physical/magical boosts and a friendlier Judgment Ring. It's being massive overkill to everything so far.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Technical Rings are more important than Mind's Eye anyway, because they improve buffs as well, for a quadratic increase in overall damage.


PW2 - aw yeah. First case was better than I remembered, although needed more Wellington and less Byrde but we already knew that. The Judge's owning of Gumshoe ("this witness' crush on the defendant has no bearing on this case") was priceless. Owned by the Judge, ouch.

FE9 - Chapter 19 now. Everyone's promoted. MVPs so far have been Stefan and Lethe. Most of the other PCs are vaguely underwhelming, but particularly Muarim whom I expected more from.

[Just Another Day]

Muarim became a straight-up liability in my laguz-only playthrough towards the end of the game. Lack of speed kills his offense and his defense both, and the late change actually grows more inconvenient too (early in the game it's convenient to let the two basically switch out whenever one shifts, but that dynamic falls by the wayside as others join and as they stop being able to solo everything effortlessly).

...

Lethe for president!

[DjinnAndTonic]

Re: Formula opacity: There's really no excuse for a game to not at least give you something like Fire: Power 25, Megainferno: Power 280 in tooltips so you can easily refer to the power of a skill at a glance. Just feeling them out CAN be a pain especially in more exotic systems and you don't know if you're hitting elemental resistance/weakness/abnormally high/low defense or whatever.

For a particularly tedious example see VP2.

This.  Very much this.  Not to mention that if you put down a game for awhile, you won't even remember any of the conclusions you came to while feeling things out and will have to do that ALL OVER AGAIN.

In SaGa Frontier's defense (and I'm actually going through the annoying math of all of this, so this is a very unhappy concession on my part)... The spell costs all end up surprisingly accurate measurements for how effective a skill is. And looking at the main magic damage formula, JP cost is actually factored in! It's minor factor at best, but it implies to me that they at least had some balancing concerns in mind when they were making the game.

However, I definitely agree with the sentiment that transparent mechanics are better. You may be able to come to the conclusion that Spell A does more damage than Spell B. But if you knew that Spell B is actually ITD, you'd know it's a better option against super-defensive ShelledWarrior, whereas Spell A is only more awesome in cases with average/low-defense enemies.

The fact that SaGa Frontier elemental typings are ridiculous and the enemy weaknesses are uninituitive are further proof that transparency is better for any kind of strategizing.

On the other hand, with all the new discoveries of the actual typings and weaknesses are (along with a bunch of other features that we never really knew existed like how Mystics get a damage boost against opponent Mystics), SaGa Frontier actually has some pretty fun strategizing that can be done. You just have to painstakingly extract the data from the programming with a debugger to figure it out.

That's all.


FE10: I'm so bored of this game. I started a map with the Fail Brigade and fell asleep while playing. I will finish it, but long game is long and it's a lousy Skinner Box.

[hinode]

The other advantage of relatively logical, though it doesn't have to be completely transparent damage algorithms is that it makes it much easier for the programmers themselves to actually make sure that everything, both on the PC and enemy side, does the damage that it is supposed to. If you generate an effective black box for your damage formulae it is very very easy to unintentionally break something somewhere that you didn't intend to and not have any idea how to fix it. I'm not especially familiar with Saga Frontier mechanics, but I'm willing to bet that at least some of the bosses ended up far weaker or stronger than the programmers originally intended.

I'd also argue that the complexity of the magic damage formula is representative of the game's coding in general, which is full of byzantine and unintuitive mechanics that can make the game user unfriendly, especially if you aren't reading up on faqs at all. Even with a more casual glance at them you're more likely to just pick up on the most abusive tricks/glitches and the best skills and ignore the vast majority of what the game offers because the documentation is so poor and performance so nonintuitive - which is a shame considering how many options the game has.

I will agree though that JP/WP costs did a pretty good job of correlating with usefulness for damage skills. A more expensive move would consistently do more damage and/or hit more targets. It's far from perfect, but by Saga Frontier standards it was a lot easier to get a rough sense of what worked with damage skills than just about anything else in the game's mechanics.

[Niu]

Blah blah blah blah. I'll decide for myself, I've already played a bunch of IF games. It's old hat to me at this point.

Suit yourself, it was just some friendly advice on my part.

Soppy is a full fledge netherworld inhabitants by now. The pain delivered by IF game is equivalent to pleasure by this point.

[superaielman]

FE10: I'm so bored of this game. I started a map with the Fail Brigade and fell asleep while playing. I will finish it, but long game is long and it's a lousy Skinner Box.

You're almost done with the DB at least.

FE10- Just finished the desert myself.

[Captain K.]

Torchlight:  gave up the Hardcore and just did Easy mode Destroyer.  Got the <8 and <5 hours to kill Ordrak achievements.

[Cotigo]

TF2 -  There is no shotgun; there is a pistol. There is no dispenser; there is another pistol. There is no sentry; there is yet another pistol. There is no teleporter; there is a dispenser. There is no death; there is the Pistol.

The Pistol is a lie; there is only the shotgun. Through the shotgun, I gain the sentry. Through the sentry, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Shotgun will set me free. 

[Cmdr_King]

So... the shotgun tortures your foes with lightning?

[dude789]

SMT SJ: Just beat the boss of Grus. She was pretty disappointing overall. Her damage was unthreatening and unlike the other bosses she didn't have status or offensive buffs to back it up. Her gimmick was pretty stupid too and didn't do anything besides lengthen the fight. Fortunately, buffs and debuffs don't trigger her counter so my newly fused Anubis with Luster Candy helped to speed things along. The cutscene afterwords had the typical SMT scene where everyone goes there seperate ways based on alignment. I also just realized the pun behind Louisa Ferr's name and I'm kind of surprised that Atlus couldn't come up with more subtle.

[Grefter]

FE9 - So I am not really enjoying this.  Chapter 13 done though! Wooooo.  I can see some of the improvements to the game, but it doesn't really help.  Thankfully fixed stat level ups really does help cut back in plenty of the bullshit annoying junk that goes into the game.  The dialogue has a few points that are really facepalm worthy and early morning US time chats is getting the full brunt of my ranting about it.

My new favourite example of the dialogue is this though from my immediate responses to chapter 13

[22:21] <Grefter> "Bad news Ma'am.  We've sighted laguz near the apostle's position.  Birdmen.  Crows, most likely." "Hmph! We've seen their kind before. They fancy themsleves pirates without a ship.  but they're thieves plain and simple."
[22:21] <Grefter> Uh... yes?
[22:21] <Grefter> They do?
[22:22] <Grefter> Because pirates are thieves with a ship?
[22:22] <Grefter> What
[22:22] <Grefter> the dialogue
[22:23] <Grefter> LOOK OUT THERE IS EGGS.  THEY PICTURE THEMSELVES AS UNBORN YOUNG OF REPTILES AND AVIANS BUT THEY ARE NOTHING MORE THAN THE YOUNG OF AVIANS AND REPTILES THAT HAVE BEEN FERTILISED AND ARE YET TO BREAK OUT OF THEIR SHELLS.
[22:25] <Grefter> aldskjfjkasdfjasdf THEY HAVE A BOAT

So it turns out they don't actually have a boat, but they were definitely working with people who have a boat.  I do wonder where Brigands and Currs fit on this sliding scale of criminals though, are they more elustrious than Pirates or are they worse than Thieves?  Perhaps time will tell.

[Luther Lansfeld]

FE10- Got to the FoW map with Ike and company. I love the way you can tear through the game on replays. No animations + no text= about 10 to 15 hour game.\

Naturally Grefter is in this topic crying about games that he knew he wouldn't enjoy from the start. Wow, how predictable.

[NotMiki]

FE9 - So I am not really enjoying this.

Dude, pirates sans ships are totally different from thieves.  Peg legs?  Hook hands?  helloooo~o!

[superaielman]

FE7- Up to Darin's map.  What Ciato said applies to every FE game, they get short when you skip plot/animations.

The polish differences between FE7 and 10 are pretty damn noticable. Most of it is small, like how you buy weapons and and the FE7 defaulting you to a max party whereas 10 remembers it, but it adds up. The series generally has gotten better about details like that. One flaw that FE games have that they share with other SRPGs is that they definitely are built challenge wise around the idea of using a full party and rotating team members.  It isn't something I mind since it suits my playstyle, but it is there.

Team breakdown:

Lyn/Hector: Used in the arena so I could get Geitz instead of Wallace. Also using Hector to guard Merlinus. Hector ended up very average, where Lyn looked like she was well on her way to be massively defense/res screwed. Not a big deal.
Eliwood: Over on all the offensive stats, average on the rest. Getting an A in swords helped his offense tremendously thanks to that silver sword you pick up fairly early in his mode. He'll probably cap STR/SKI/SPD after promotion if his luck holds at all. I do need to dig up a body ring or two for him, as he is going to be my Dragonslayer.
Marcus: I'm about two thirds of the way through the game and he is still is good. Stat growth has been crap, since he hasn't gained speed or strength yet. But... yeah, he still doubles most things and he is still durable. He is better than I thought;  he can carry a bad team (When DORCAS is your best fighter otherwise for several maps) quite well until... probably the desert? Something like that.
Dorcas: Also competent. He hits hard and his HP lets him be an effective tank. He's currently a L1 Warrior. Bit STR screwed and didn't gain speed until like L15, when he got four levels of it in a row. He is skill blessed though!!!...hey, if he can't have speed, he may as well be accurate.
Sain: STR screwed, speed blessed, skill blessed. I will definitely take that with him. He's an L2ish Paladin, currently supportin with Serra. I gave him an Angelic robe so he'd be able to tank out when needed. This really helped on Fargas's map and tanking the boss there.
Wil: Useful against flyers! Otherwise he's been the LVP so far. Doesn't have damage, durability, or speed. His support options suck too.
Serra: Naturally capped out her levels on like map 17, which says something about the offense of my team.  Defense is made of fail and lose, even by her standards.  She gained one whole point before promotion! *Claps*
Dart: Another axeman with potential speed issues. I clearly don't have enough of those, between Dorcas and Marcus. On the bright side, he's progressing well stat wise and can support with Will and Karel. I also dumped all my secret books on him, as he'll need every scrap of hit he can get. Speaking of that, going to end up using Karel since I seriously doubt I'll meet the reqs for getting Harken.

[Luther Lansfeld]

Rattata Stories (HG): OMG JUST GOT A SHINY GEODUDE!! Rattata destroys worlds. Current team is Sandshrew, Chiko, Ratatta, Butterfree, Spearow, and Mareep.

[SageAcrin]

TF2 -  There is no shotgun; there is a pistol. There is no dispenser; there is another pistol. There is no sentry; there is yet another pistol. There is no teleporter; there is a dispenser. There is no death; there is the Pistol.

The Pistol is a lie; there is only the shotgun. Through the shotgun, I gain the sentry. Through the sentry, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Shotgun will set me free. 

Ironically I was just randomly comparing the stats on those two.

They're pretty much the same weapon. One's front-ended and the other is better in every other way.

Deep, man.

Edit:

We tried a 4v2 game, with me and Laggy on the same side, and that didn't work either.

...Oh come *on* you guys that just means non-Laggy and Trips people need to step it up. >_>

[AAA]

TF2 -  There is no shotgun; there is a pistol. There is no dispenser; there is another pistol. There is no sentry; there is yet another pistol. There is no teleporter; there is a dispenser. There is no death; there is the Pistol.

The Pistol is a lie; there is only the shotgun. Through the shotgun, I gain the sentry. Through the sentry, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Shotgun will set me free. 

BLASPHEMY

[Rozalia]

Disgaea 3 - All the Gents have now been defeated and 19 stages of the X-zone are done.

I did however get smacked down by Axel due to being underleveled. Baal stole his super stardome or so he says. Baal seems to be Carmen Sandiego in disguise because some of the stuff he has stolen is downright impossible. Salvatore's womanliness, the "a" in Big Star's name, Asagi's game where she's the main character and Marona's innocence.....! It seems Baal has upgraded from joke bonus boss to complete loli devouring monster. Bastard is going down for such villainy.

Soppy is a full fledge netherworld inhabitants by now. The pain delivered by IF game is equivalent to pleasure by this point.

Really? Then he'll have the time of his life with Cross edge. I recommend you play Dragoneer's Aria next Soppy because even hating CE I still finished it twice. DA? Fuck that.