Author Topic: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!  (Read 367704 times)

DjinnAndTonic

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1700 on: April 12, 2010, 02:55:58 AM »
Parasite Eve: I play old games. Graphics are laughably dated, but the game holds up in all the important places. Even the fake science is fun! I admit that I was intrigued by the basic idea of the human body rebelling against itself - it seems like a really good place to start a thriller from. The rest of the fake science was so silly that it took away from the horror aspect of the game. Luckily, the story and characters were just good enough to keep the interest flowing to finish this up in a day.

Chrysler Building can suck it, though.

Tide

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1701 on: April 12, 2010, 03:17:58 AM »
GameFreak has been known to hate on people and do things that make their lives painful. Like 5% catch rate on Dittos :/ And contant running legendaries. Even when asleep. lolwhat.

Resonance of Fate:

Finally completed. Long ass game, especially if you do all the sidequests (I did, so...). 92 hours clocked is my end game time and have most of everything completed (World map fully cleared, most red hex battles done). Only the sekrit dungeon and lol50stararena is left but I don't think I'm about to do that yet. I want to work on other games, either FF13 or ToV is next up. Would take suggestions from people with reasons explained much appreciated.

So final thoughts, comments on the game - Tri-Ace game basically at its best when focusing on the stuff that makes Tri-Ace games good: Silly plot, and the battle system. I'm kinda amazed at how this turned out though since the core formula itself again, is really simple but they manage to put enough situations in it such that you're forced to try different tactics, set ups and equipment. I mean, fundamentally, you're not learning game breaking skills at some point, and the things you learn early carry you through to the end. But maybe that's what makes it good. You're constantly being tested and reminded of core fundaments, but you have to adapt the fundaments to different situations in order to come out ahead whether because of terrain, enemy formation and what you're equipped with. Game also has its fair share of gimmicks here and there, which is weird of course, but nothing you can't take care of.

So let's start off with what's bad about the game and what could be improved on. There are some complaints I have. Most of it is just poor polish issues which keeps the game from going higher. There are four main issues that I can basically list which plague the game and keep it from an 8 to me:

1) Enemy hit boxes. Especially the big enemies have really weird hit boxes. I'm not just referring to you shooting them. I'm also referring to when you go into Rob mode and try to maneuver around them but OH SHI- you bump into them when the path clearly is at least several metres away from where they should be. It's not even that they walked into your path - it's just weird hit boxes. And its frustrating sometimes since you could have a run route planned but lolzno and you run into the enemy and take 2HKO or OHKO damage. I remember one case where I jumped behind the enemy and then came to an abrupt halt for no apparent reason. It didn't make me reset, but its frustrating nonetheless. Is it really so hard to keep enemy hit boxes exactly as they look? Well I guess based on Homogenius series, the answer would be a yes.

2) Coloured Hexes. Now this one leaves me puzzled and I dock points for it. Why can't you exchange one coloured HEX for another coloured HEX? I mean seriously Tri Ace/Sega? You want me to fight level 4 enemies at end game just so I can finish paving my coloured HEX path from terminals? I don't get it. What's the value in this other than raw grinding? It just shuts out a raw gameplay feature away from the game for way to long.

3) This also leaves me puzzled. Why isn't there a remove all feature from gun customization? I have to tediously remove each part piece by piece. What value is there? You don't even have to scrap the current lay out. You just add an extra button or option or something that dismantles all the parts that are currently equipped. I don't believe for a second that this is difficult to implement.

4) Enemy targetting and field surveying could be better. You can tell who might be attacked based on the symbol on the bottom right (goes from yellow meaning targetted to red meaning will be attacked) but it doesn't tell you which enemy is locking on to you. I mean, one of the things that was cool in VP2 was that you could see the attack ranges. This is like like covering up the attack range essentially. Yeah, you know they're going to attack you, but you don't know who they're aiming for. Now, it's not a huge hinderance at all times. But there are certain terrain maps where it definitely helps in making better decisions. The terrain could be covering a shot from someone who's hiding and the gauge would be red for example.

Other than that. Tri Ace plot. When it tries to be serious, it's a mess. I've played through the whole game and I can confidently say that if I hadn't read Kouli's plot summary I still wouldn't understand what the deuce happens during the game. It's that awesome. On the other hand, when the game doesn't try to srs bsn, it's alright and kinda amusing in a way (more on this later).

The gameplay could be improved if the characters had more differentiation in combat, but for what its worth, it's okay standalone. Early on, there'some notable PC limitations due to the weight restrictions, but the farther you get in the game, the less and less difference there is between the PCs. That's kind of a downer. In addition, that comment about HEX colours? Yeah, one of the neat things about RoF is that it has a similar sealstone type system with terminals. However, due to the tediousness of getting certain HEX colours, you could be barred from setting up HEX effects for a while which kinda limits the strategic choices you are making other than grinding. That's obviously not good design.

On the other hand, the crux of the game is handled very well. You've still got some interesting choices to make. For example: You get certain gun models throughtout the game (5 Pistols/4 M.Guns) and their base stats differ enough that you might not want to customize one over the other. Further adding to that, you have two weapon slots. You can choose to dual wield, which ups your firepower/stun chances but you lose utility value from equipping a box (Grenade/First Aid/Magazine). Certain set ups also work better than others (Magazine case should never go with the pistol) and there's some choices for equipping accessories too. Finally, those terminal effects are double edged - any bonus applied also benefits the enemy. So if you're heading to an area that might have some fire damage and you link Double Amp and Fire damage boost together, well the enemy using Fire also gets x4 mult to their attack. There are definitive ways of mitigating it so the enemy can't benefit off as much as you (Heat Protectors/Shields), but that's the set up choices and strategy choices you end up making.

Overall, I'm fairly impressed with the game. The character interaction is always pleasant, and focusing on that saves the story a bit. In fact, if the game kept the same story telling style for the first 7 chapters as they did with the rest of the game, the core plot would be like 50x better. The first 7 chapters gives us some pretty good insight on the each character's past and how they're trying to live out they're regular life despite some of the troubles that have haunted them before. It's when the game starts reaching chapter 9 and onward and tries to be serious that it really starts falling apart since there is no heads or tails of what the shit is going on. Barring that, the game's probably 7.5/10 for me overall. It's decent enough to warrant a try, but most likely not everyone's cup of tea.

Other thoughts...
Gun Models and the like...it's definitely clear that some of the guns are better than others. Leanne's starting gun (the B-N84)is trash. Bad customization ports and it specializes in RAPID FIRE of all things (FYI, this is a stat that only matters if you run out of Rob metre, which is something you should never be focusing on). The pistol that Vashyron starts with though (1191.45 Auto) is pretty decent since it specializes in gauge breaking - an effective form of stun - and lasts thoughout the entire game and it generally has better expansion and customization options. The SG-B226 is meh. It's bases aren't that impressive and specializing in magazine size for a pistol is terrible since they deal low damage. Decent customization port options though so it might see some mid game use. The LP-09 when you get it, is probably the best overall gun based on availability and bases. Highest charge time and its base acceleration is actually decent. It loses out on...RAPID FIRE. Oh noes. Yeah. Great model and you should focus on buying this over the SG-B226. The Z-40 is also really good, specializing in charge acceleration with a decent base charge time and good custom ports to boot. You get it way too late though and you need to do a huge fetch quest for it. That's still better than the MI50A which requires tedious arena grinding and is likely never seeing the light of use. Best base model however at least, so you're doing the work for something.

Overall rank here would be: LP-09 > 1191.45 Auto > Z-40 = SGB226 > B-N84 > MI50A.

For M.Guns, well, you only have one (SMG-05) for a long time. And thankfully, it's got good customization options. Default bases suck though, but the custom ports really save it from being junky. That and good usability. You can get the PDW-XN.V2 next at around C.7, but it's overall not terribly good. Due to the design and custom ports, it ends up being the least customization on the most important M.Gun stat. So I pretty much ditched it when a better model was available and didn't use it for much longer otherwise. Now, the NP-05.C is the deal. Great custom ports, specializes in the most important stat for a machine gun and decent bases all around. This thing is beastly. 300000 grand though and only available in C.13. Regardless, it's well worth the buy. The last model (PDW-XN.V3) is servicable but not great. You get it with only 2 chapters left and it can't be customized nearly as well as the SMG-05 or the NP-05.C

Overall rank here would be: SMG-05 > NP-05.C > PDW-XN.V3 > PDW-XN.V2.

The cases offer some interesting options over dual wielding. The biggest trade off is losing extra firepower from having two guns. However, having two guns makes that character 1 dimensional and you basically lose utility options you get with the cases. The biggest debate is usually over the Magazine case since it just seems like dual wielding M.Guns flat out beat it. It probably does if you ony compare raw power. But the Magazine case can also boost its bullets with terminals. Connect something like Fire boost and all of a sudden, that incidenary round is doing 2x more damage than a regular bullet and easily makes up for a lack of dual wielding. You do need good spread and a large charge acceleration in order to make it worthwhile though. The Magazine case also has some retarded good cheese in there. Like Armor Piercing. Some of the hardest enemies in the game are hard because they have so many layers of armor. Armor Piercing goes lolz to them. They also have Percussive rounds. Yo Dawg, I heard you liek gauge breaking, so we included a gauge breaking round into your M.Gun so you can gauge break while you go Rob. It's a playstyle choice mostly. Dual wielding is better for general randoms since you don't have to equip the right ammo type to get better damage, but it doesn't maximize your output obviously. The Grenade case is awesome early on since Grenades just have so much more power for direct damage compared to hand guns. Especially the EX. versions. Later on though, it's not really worth swapping over since the gauge breaking on pistols is just too valuable to lose. I guess you could go Smash grenades there, but they're not spammable without arena grinding. First Aid kit is always nice to have since it can Heal, use Escape Hexes (This is arguably the most important) and they have Anti items to reduce damage. Enemies rack up damage pretty noticably and you either use some physical resistance accessories (Hi-Polymer Padding) along with Anti items to reduce damage or you feel the pain pretty quick. Overall, all the cases are useful. Although they vary for usefulness depending on where you are in the game.

For gun stats, this is pretty simple. Rapid Fire is a garbage stat for stated reasons already. Weight is also usually not a concern once you hit around chapter 4-5 or so. So it's pretty much the other stats competing for each other. Charge is obviously the most important. You need a good charge in order to attack. Good charge also lets you attack faster so you can interrupt an enemies charge. Or if you tie them, you still come out ahead since during the animation of the attack, PCs are psudeo invincible (some attacks will just right out whiff). Good charge is also needed to get the acceleration going. So yeah. No brainer most important stat here. Charge acceleration is pretty useless in the first few chapters. Once you hit around chapter 9 though, it starts becoming critical because enemies just start having a lot more health and their attacks are deadlier. You need a good charge acceleration on your M.Gun to get good damage mults. And you want a good charge acceleration on pistols to stun enemies. Spread is important especially over long distances and if the target is small. Larger targets and close range attacks reduce spread's importantance. Magazine size is always good to have (especially for M.Guns) but never critical like the above stats. I should note: Charge does eventually have a optimal point though. 100 charge is basically enough to snipe things to death and anything above 100 is sorta wasted.

So: Charge > Charge Acceleration > Spread = Magazine size > Weight > Rapid Fire.

PCs/Bosses in DL

RoF is sort unrankable since its one huge massive interp headache. PCs can't actually kill unless they can deal direct damage. They can't do relative damage without M.Guns. Oh and if you give these options to them, everyone becomes the same, so the end. If you stick with starting options (Tal and I have discussed this), it sorta becomes a more rankable idea but still kinda weird.

Vashyron: 1191.45 Auto/Grenade Case are his initial equips. I've gone over both already so it should be easy to imagine what he has in a duel. Stun + grenade status ailments. Grenades in particular are pretty devastating since they deal a lot more relevant direct damage over hand guns, and their only flaw is not pronounced in the DL (can't spread damage so you never know which part of the enemy you are hitting). It should be noted that gauge breaking and then dropping HP past the break point recovers lost Rob meter in game. So if you allow that, he can probably start with smash grenades or the pistol and then swap over to something stronger (like Hand Grenade EXes) and then bomb away to recover Rob metre. Possibly the best PC because of this. Pistol really doesn't have much use in the grand scheme of things but it's range and charges faster than any thrown weapon. Approx. max twink potential stats: 110 charge, 61% acceleration rate, 9 bullets per attack, 97 spread (shots should hit dead where they are). Would be lower in DL since some of this requires hard grinding, but yeah. Most likely some flavour of Middle.

Zephyr: SMG-05/Magazine case. He can't deal direct damage ever. In order to win any duel he basically has to drop the Magazine case and use his melee attack (...). Sorta a shame since the Magazine case would be interesting otherwise. Simple strategy. Rob mode and charge up a huge attack mult. Then move in and strike physically to win. I should note that the melee attack in game is garbage since you have to dead close to the enemy and they end up having really quick charge times to the point where you're often at best tying them to attack (so he definitely takes an attack back in return). Scratch damage heals over time though, so despite the fact that he can aim to snipe, he might not want to if he wants to make damage stick permanently. Approx. max twink potential: 107 charge, 59% charge acceleration rate, 18 bullets per attack, 84 spread (mediocre but not horrible). Same comments as above applies. Also likely Middle.

Leanne: B-N84/First Aid kit. Uh....Mint mk.2. The pistol deals sad ass damage. However, she has boatloads of healing under this interp. So she can stun lock for like 20 damage, and keep doing this. If the enemy breaks out of stun and deals damage, she can heal it and resume stun locking. YESZ. Block or resist stun (no enemy in game does this, although the stun tolerance is different for every enemy) and she's SOL pretty much. Some form of Light.

Now for boss... (SPOILERS)
Boozehound Priest aka. Lagerfield: First notable boss character in game and he's a gimmick! Fights Zephyr alone. How much credit you give his gimmick is up to you - he basically has perfect frontal evasion. You can only hit him if he's either attacking or by running past him in Rob mode and shooting him in the back. His durability blows, but he's got good damage otherwise if you trigger his gimmick (counter teleport knifing for 2HKO damage). So...some iteration of a Lambda redux I suppose only more trainwrecky. If you give him some credit at least for the gimmick (which you might since he's the first gimmick boss you fight in game and you're likely to fall for it at least once), he's probably Heavy since perfect evasion + 2HKO counter attack is pretty nasty. If you don't he's probably Light. Never recovers from Scratch damage in game so yeah. Did I mention his durability sucks?
 
Crazy Artist aka. Giligano: I have no clue. I killed him before he could attack him. That should say enough

UOM: Also no clue. See above.

FE7's Hungry Cavalier aka. Rowen: Uh...how good he is really depends on how you interp some of the mechanics in game. He's kinda weak for damage (lol 6HKO damage but upgrades to GT 3HKO once he's lost like 25% of his health!) but his durability is nutsy. 100000 RoF HP is at least 3x better than UOM. You can't just Rob mode him and he dies. Oh he also has several armor parts covering him so he can absorb some punishment initially before they get blown off. Also, if you give support credit, he gets better. The most notable being the Assault guys since they deal around high 4HKO damage as well. With 4 of them spawned, he can drain a weaker PC down to nothing and then some. AND he can summon an infinite number of them although only 4 on the field at once. What makes him notably worse is the levelling mechanic of RoF. You don't level up at the end of battle. You level anytime you deal damage enough to bring you up to a level. This causes him to unable to make damage stick since thanks to his HUEG HP, its possible to level up off him at least once or twice, allowing you to full heal. If you consider that into the equation, then his WHOAMG awesome durability becomes less awesome, but still pretty good. Just not nutsy anymore. Some form of Heavy I wager.

Other lesser rankable people...
Not commenting on everyone, just who I remember

Electric Tortoise: Weakish armor plating. However, his damage is 3HKO and it inflicts Slow. Slow is pretty nasty in RoF since it cuts away your charge speed noticably. Armor plating might let him live past one attack. Other wise, you get some Metal Rounds here and they deal increased damage against him, which makes him fall pretty quickly once his armor shell drops.

Nutjob aka. Gelsey: Well he can status you with low 5HKO damage! ...uh yeah. Probably some form of Light. He's notably frail since he has no armor covering and his support dies quickly. POIZN is a nasty RoF status though, however much credit you want to give him for that. Past that, he can also inflict RoF's version of slow. Yay?

Truckasauros: He has GT OHKO damage. Yeeeah. Also several layers of armor plating. He would be incredibly scary if his AI wasn't garbage. He doesn't tend to use his OHKO damage unless at close range and sometimes he just wanders around because he's not within range to do much. Rob mode around his ass in game gets him killed although it takes a few shots to do the trick. Mmm...Heavy? Godlike? Dunno

Turret Swarm: Pretty nasty in game since all of them together 2HKO easily and its hard to run and shoot the leader down. Downside: In the DL, the main leader can get outsniped by having good charge times in game. So uh...you can outkite him fairly easily and I've never seen the main cannon attack because of that. No clue as a rank.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2010, 03:57:18 AM by Tide »
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hinode

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1702 on: April 12, 2010, 03:20:52 AM »
The fuck?  Man sometimes Game Freak just hate on pokemon to an amazing degree.


Fudozukushi

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1703 on: April 12, 2010, 03:23:52 AM »
ToV - Beat final boss, Fell arms version.  He hits hard in that last version, but nothing you can't handle even without Divide Alll.  All secret missions done.  Tons of side stuff done, but not all of them (Seriously how the fuck do people master all the cooking on one character let alone all of them?).

Carrying over cooking skill is like... 10 grade. I think that's how you do it. That's how I did it with Yuri, at least. Not going to even consider doing it with anyone else.

There's no need to do it with anyone else.  Only one character needs to master everything to get everyone's cooking titles.  Of course other characters will probably end up mastering things in order to learn new recipes and :headdesk:

Grefter

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1704 on: April 12, 2010, 04:40:02 AM »
Wait what?  You only have to master them on one character for that?  I thought the title was for mastering all recipes (Did not FAQ it other than that it existed).  That is okay then.  I was going to say I had been working on Yuri almost all game and he still only just mastered all the base recipes and I am focussing on unlocking the other ones now...

For reccomendations, I obviously say play ToV over FF13 Tide, of the two FF13 is the most similar to the way RoF plays out gameplay wise, so you might want a break from it.  Either way though I have gushed enough about how good ToV is for Tales fans and said my part on FF13.  Either game you are going to get into a battle system that is a lot of doing the same thing over and over though.  Both fairly long as well.
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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1705 on: April 12, 2010, 05:25:37 AM »
Parasite Eve: I play old games. Graphics are laughably dated, but the game holds up in all the important places. Even the fake science is fun! I admit that I was intrigued by the basic idea of the human body rebelling against itself - it seems like a really good place to start a thriller from. The rest of the fake science was so silly that it took away from the horror aspect of the game. Luckily, the story and characters were just good enough to keep the interest flowing to finish this up in a day.

Chrysler Building can suck it, though.

I have to say, I couldn't play through. EMOTE SPEAK EMOTE SPEAK EMOTE SPEAK made scenes take an intolerably long time.

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1706 on: April 12, 2010, 05:34:20 AM »

Metroid Fusion - Wow, learning you can power bomb to expose a ladder above Security Robot 2 makes him much less evil.

...

Ahahahaha oh -wow- I didn't even think about that of course that'd be why you found him so tough last time! ... Damn, props, NEB, for beating him without that beforehand.

Yeah you were probably scratching your head at my comments of him being "too durable" before. More like one of the frailest bosses in the game. <_<

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Meiousei

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1707 on: April 12, 2010, 06:36:43 AM »
Parasite Eve: I play old games. Graphics are laughably dated, but the game holds up in all the important places. Even the fake science is fun! I admit that I was intrigued by the basic idea of the human body rebelling against itself - it seems like a really good place to start a thriller from. The rest of the fake science was so silly that it took away from the horror aspect of the game. Luckily, the story and characters were just good enough to keep the interest flowing to finish this up in a day.

Chrysler Building can suck it, though.

I have the book that started the series. The guy that wrote it during his college years (hence it's very science-based). Book starts off really slow, but gets darker and better as it goes on. I only got the book after playing the game. Movie is sh*t though.

As for Chrysler...don't get me started...the ************************ roaches... *rocks back and forth* The horror...

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1708 on: April 12, 2010, 06:42:58 AM »
Chrysler... from memory, I feel like it's actually scaled for like a fourth playthrough, not a second.  It's retardedly long and boring even then, but mutilating the peons on the way takes some of the suck out of it.
Of course, the real reason to do the Chrysler Building is for the second credits music, which nowadays you don't really need to play games to get at.
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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1709 on: April 12, 2010, 06:49:56 AM »
I did it on the 3rd. While it is possible to do it on the second playthrough (using the level up trick in the museum to hit 99), I normally wait until the 3rd one to beat Chrysler.

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1710 on: April 12, 2010, 06:52:24 AM »
Megaman Powered Up:

Got this and I've played through most of the robot master stages on Normal. In order:

Cutman: Easy stage, easy boss. He's not as completely wretched as before, but he still goes down like a chump. At least he tries now. Obviously captured him since I did him first.

Gutsman: Man, what the fuck was with that stupid jump midway through the stage? It's something I'd expect in a romhack and doesn't fit at all. Not only is there a dead-end lower platform, but the upper platform requires surprisingly quick and demanding jumping or you'll never make it. Gutsman himself was a pushover, though I didn't capture him since apparently you have to buster-only bosses. I tried the Rolling Cutter on him once, oh well.

Bombman: I don't remember the stage 3 hours after playing it and I near- perfected Bombman on the first try with the buster. Failure and an easy capture.

Iceman: Stage wasn't too easy but not close to hard. Iceman himself is nerfed, with his ice slashers being much easier to avoid. The varying patterns and icicle drops don't make up for it. Easy boss and an easy capture.

Fireman: His stage is almost hard, though I had a few distinct bits of bad luck as I went through.  Fireman himself isn't noteworthy and got steamrolled with the buster.

Oilman: Stage was bland enough and easy, boss fight wasn't hard once you got the hang of how to manipulate his shots. Yet another capture, too.

Stopped early in Elecman's stage, didn't have the desire to keep going right now. Overall it's easy besides a single hangup in Gutsman's stage, but I guess playing romhacks keeps your skills sharp. It's fun fluff but nothing more than that. I'll have to try Hard Mode once I clear this as well as mess with the other robot masters. I get the impression they're each one-dimensional gimmicks, though.

Lunar: Silver Star Harmony:

Started this and I got through the prologue. I don't know why the hell I bought this. Maybe I'm jonesing for some fluff?
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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1711 on: April 12, 2010, 10:49:39 AM »
Quote
The fact that this is Commando + Ravager and whatever support role you need

Commandos are a lot more situational than they appear at first.  "I haz moar dmg?" is an OK default, but when it's not boosted you tend to be wasting time or pushing an enemy towards a "I do this at X% HP" that you'd rather put off or avoid.

Quote
don't buff?

Most buffs provide a lesser bonus than their debuff counterparts.  Similarly, because of the cries for each character to be a speshul snowflake, character X may not have the buff you would like.

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don't debuff

I see a lot of people trying to stick everything on enemies with non-fail resistance and wondering why they are having so much trouble.


Quote
Stupid Sazh stupid fighting stupid melee resistant enemies not using Ruin

Physicals are more likely to interrupt and extend chaining; both of which are arguably a good tradeoff for slightly more base damage.  Sazh's physicals are also somewhat quirky with his dual guns.


Quote
sometimes you might AoE I guess.
 

They aren't just palette swaps or "Fire with more spellpower" anymore. 


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Sentinel uh defends? 

Potent counters with a chain effect comparable to COM and SAB (although if you rely on AI or auto they'll almost never get a full set off)   Self-healing.   Evasion. 


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FFT

FFT has little in the way of multimode skills.  The good skills almost universally cost trivial JP and don't require going up the tree much.  You might switch up dorks for compatibility issues and favor certain jobs for stat gains, but for the most part the good stuff is handed to you on a silver platter. Having a bunch of skills in game != game has higher % of good skills. 


Quote
blah blah "alternate methods"

These have a tendency to be a million times more abusable than combat.  Boosting them also tends to involve stupid pet tricks no different than "power leveling" or "grinding." 

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1712 on: April 12, 2010, 12:03:13 PM »

Metroid Fusion - Wow, learning you can power bomb to expose a ladder above Security Robot 2 makes him much less evil.

...

Ahahahaha oh -wow- I didn't even think about that of course that'd be why you found him so tough last time! ... Damn, props, NEB, for beating him without that beforehand.

Yeah you were probably scratching your head at my comments of him being "too durable" before. More like one of the frailest bosses in the game. <_<

Yeaaaah, I was kinda wondering if you were hanging out somewhere where his pattern was catching you full force or something. Now I know!

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1713 on: April 12, 2010, 01:04:47 PM »
Rondo of Swords - Beaten

Before committing to The Slow Plan, on a whim I had Izuna taste the boss's damage only to find that she survived it quite handily. Ansom is not exactly a slouch in the HP department (5th highest of my endgame characters) but it seems his low magic was more meaningful than I had realised. Which is especially amusing since he spends the majority of the game as Mage Killer In Residence.

Anyway, applying a couple of HP rings I had lying around to Izuna got her pumped up enough to withstand two shots from the final. This let me change my plan to having her sit around baiting the final into wasting his barrier health and alternating having Ansom shoot and get rescued with healing Izuna. Much much quicker progress.

Then his barrier runs out, and I make a mad attempt at finishing him off quickly and fail, and he uses a consumable to fully refresh his barrier. Which I expected to happen, so it wasn't surprising. What I hadn't expected to happen was that his army which had spent the entire time just standing around would decide they had probably bummed around enough and should get to attacking. After getting the heck out of there I found that my expectations were further shattered when the final realised that it could move also  :'(

SO! Restart and do things much the same way, except this time I have Marie give the central army a good dose of Oratorio Laser while meandering past them. By now she wasn't getting any experience from it and they were making no attempt to move anyway, so I hadn't done this before due to impatiencery. Less sudden enemy stampede = Izuna able to stand her ground = Final resumes wasting his barrier against her. And he thankfully has only the one of that consumable, and his other method of mass-recharging takes him a while to get access to and only gives off around a third of it, so he runs out and goes down fairly snappily after that.

Cue inane ending conversation where the final effectively tries to threaten the main with a situation which the main just said he was striving for. Um. Okay.


MVU would be Ansom. Shooting is just that useful. More specifically, shooting with him is just that useful as he has the strength to one-hit most mages in the game. Shino's general weakness lets the whole set of shooting people down despite her having better range.
SMVU would be Margus. Because ZOC is just that useful >_>. But not as useful as destroying mages.
TMVU... not sure. Probably Marie. Because inherent MP regeneration is just that useful >_>_>. All the other magicusers take forever to get access to MP regeneration if they even do manage to get it, and it's not as useful near the end of the game as it would have been near the start as they've all gotten ludicrous pools of MP by then but are extremely limited early on. Also, doesn't take up a skill slot. Be nicer if she got Oratorio earlier though.

So now I can play a New Game + except I am not completely insane so


A certain dark knight has insane range with his special as well as doing big damage. Have a lot of drugs, and you can at least make him snip three times.
Also, the final is not going to attack if you are within a certain range, or you can just use Elma's mdef buff. Once the boss's buffer hp are gone, just have Sedric run ahead for a kill.

Well, the game did not allow me to see the range of his special. It does say that it is based on his movement but there is only one place he can be positioned in order to hit the guy with it without being within range for black death on the enemy turn, and that's down amongst the big army which to be fair did not end up happening but wrote it off at the time. The skill description also gave off the impression that after using the skill he would end up at the opposite side of the range, so I was assuming that even if I did get him in place to use it he would just end up next to the guy and eat black death anyway. It turns out this wasn't true, but whatever.

In fact I did manage to get a hit of it in during my successful attempt; I had him in the general vicinity keeping archer reinforcements off Marie/Ansom/Izuna and sent him over to help out after the final became helpless and Marie was freed up to laser the archers. It did 140 damage from memory, so it wasn't that spectacular (but then again high-strength Izuna was doing 50-odd damage off regular attacks, so I'm probably being deluded by his insane defences here).

If the final doesn't attack within a certain range, that would have been an enormous flaw in him but I don't understand why he wouldn't? I can't say anything about the range of his long-range spell, but I had his low-range spell on a couple of units and I don't remember it having a minimum range, and he was more than willing to use it at mid-range; never got the chance to see him use anything at short-range, so I can't confirm or deny what you're saying. It'd be bizarre if he didn't use it though.

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1714 on: April 12, 2010, 02:09:55 PM »
Okay so incomplete quotes of stuff I said a few days ago is going to make that kind of hard for me to respond to, but the general gist of the argument is that you generally don't want to just debuff the enemy and only buff yourself.  The key to victory in FF13 is to do all of them.  Debuffs are stronger, but Protect/Shell lets you trivialise bosses as a threat far more than debuffing them since they will block the debuffs that would neuter them.  You want to do all those things.  Soooooooo, again I go back to what other methods to you want to employ to play the game?  You WANT to buff up, it lets you kill things better, you want to debuff them, it lets you kill them faster, you WANT to Paradigm shift, it gets you turns faster, you want a diverse set of paradigms, so short of running a set of Com/Rav/Rav and Rav/Rav/Rav (which is a limited party choice variant) you are going to have spend some time with someone as something else in there and Sentinel is horrible at killing enemies in a timely manner (That 5 star kills goal the game sets for you).  So you are going to be spending some time in Medic, Saboteur or Synergist.  Like all things these work best by far when you mix things up.  Debuffs may be better than buffs, but Haste kicks the shit out of debuffs and so on.  And you don't need a Commando in every Paradigm setup, but you need them SOMEWHERE which was my entire point.  Without Commandos slowing the Chain gauge depletion you are just straight up not staggering most of the stuff you are coming across.   See your statements about benefits of Sentinel giving about the same boost on the gauge as Commando and Saboteur, which is to say, you need ravagers to get that shit going anywhere other than chipping the enemy.   There is just flat out no room for "Variant play" in FF13.  There is a core basic recipe that you have to adhere to no matter how you go about it.  I was responding to Djinn saying that it is once again a case of me tearing open the game, finding what works but is not fun and then no changing things to mix it up and make it fun.  So again, to reiterate the point of my argument, there is no reasonable room for variant play styles in FF13.  You can just mix up the ingredients to the recipe in whatever order you want.

Sentinel is good at what it does and yeah it can dish out damage while doing so, but it is entirely completely and totally counter to the "Kill the enemy as quickly as possible" the game gives you.  They are good at what they do and when you need them they are indespensible, the things they do are slow and they are not needed for the vast majority of the game.


Quote
FFT

FFT has little in the way of multimode skills.  The good skills almost universally cost trivial JP and don't require going up the tree much.  You might switch up dorks for compatibility issues and favor certain jobs for stat gains, but for the most part the good stuff is handed to you on a silver platter. Having a bunch of skills in game != game has higher % of good skills. 


FFT may have a few good skills that can be bought for very little JP that will get you through the game.  These are also represented over 20 different jobs with skillsets being able to be applied in tandem with innate ones presenting a far more dynamic skilll system with varying different degrees of synergy that is capable of being applied to your 3-5 characters you bring into combat.  So while there is a subset of "Good cheap skills" there is also such a large range of them that can be applied in such a varying amount of ways that the comparison here is quite frankly a laughable strawman.  You may be able to find 3 people in a pool of 20 that played FFT roughly the same, but I can give you a pool of about 20 people that have played the game more than 3 times and not played it the same way once.  FFT is not a giant of hyper balanced gameplay, but it gives you a varying number of choices to make and those choices are fairly compelling.   FFT I may need a healer, but I have 2 Primary healing skillsets that I can apply and 3 with varying degrees of consistent but less diverse healing to choose from if I want to trade in some Healing utility for a bit more damage.  FF13 lets me have a healer or I can have TWO healers OR MAYBE I CAN MAKE EVERYONE A HEALER.  But that is the solution to your problem.  You need healing?  Make sure you have a party with Medic in it.  Sure you could build a party with no Medics in it.  Sazh, Fang, Snow party, rad, you can have 2 Sentinels.  OROROROROR you could sink a fuckton of skill points into Medic for one of them and have a totally gimp healer with 1/3 the skillset of a competent one.  That would be sweet.

Quote
blah blah "alternate methods"

These have a tendency to be a million times more abusable than combat.  Boosting them also tends to involve stupid pet tricks no different than "power leveling" or "grinding." 

And there you have totally lost me, are you taking FFT still?  Because last I looked you could do things like CT5 Don't Act without any grinding.  Last I looked while Demi and Life Drain were functionally similar on offense the fact that they are on completely different yet absolutely attainable job sets gives you a great deal of difference in the way you apply them.  Just because the standard builds you see around the place for Draw-Out require a retarded amount of grinding doesn't stop you from being able to cherry pick the tree in a very effective way and be quite formidable and again, completely different play style to someone who just went "Man Scream is awesome, I could totally one shot all the guys on this map" come Chapter 4.  Last I looked people were using Physical classes other than Ninjas still.  I am pretty sure people think Guns and Mediators are pretty sweet.  What was that?  Chemist is a usable end game healing class?  But I thought everyone was just running White Mages because Holy is broken am I not right?

The number of things you can use to beat FFT without power gaming is astronomical and they are all right there for the taking.  The fact that you have good skills for affordable JP costs does the game far more good than it does it bad.

If you are talking about other games, well yes, alternate combat methods in other games may very well be stupid, that would be why I didn't use them as examples.  They are examples of doing it wrong.  Well not just examples of doing it wrong, but examples of doing it astronomically wrong.
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AndrewRogue

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1715 on: April 12, 2010, 04:08:09 PM »
The fuck?  Man sometimes Game Freak just hate on pokemon to an amazing degree.



GAMEFREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAKS!

Andrew is back doing games he hasn't beat yet.

Muramasa: Completed Kisuke's path. Found the final boss to be a pain in the ass, so I spammed Soul Power restoration and such to utterly ruin him. Ending was unexpected, but cute. Fun game. Gonna beat Momohime's path next.

Valkyria Chroicles: Blew up an invincible train. And by blew up, I mean dropped in a goddamn river. Alicia/Scouts in general is/are broken as hell with Order support. That is all.

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1716 on: April 12, 2010, 04:26:08 PM »
Okay, so much for that team. Pryce's Piloswine OHKOs everything in it except the Mantine and always goes first. Aaaaaargh.

Edit: Is Piloswine supposed to be blindingly fast, or should I focus on beefing up my levels here? I can either grind or look for a better defensive type match; I'm not expecting to get enough defense to survive his attacks, but if I can just get my attacks in first I can eat the losses and murder him anyway, because when I do get the occasional hit in from him picking the wrong attack, it does good damage.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2010, 08:01:27 PM by Shale »
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Meeplelard

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1717 on: April 12, 2010, 08:03:30 PM »
Piloswine should only be fast if he has a massive level edge; I believe its a rather slow Pokemon at base.
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

Captain K.

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1718 on: April 13, 2010, 02:14:16 AM »
Piloswine is base speed 50, so you're probably underleveled.  My Feraligatr went before it and OHKOd with Surf.  Now Mamoswine is the wacky one with a jump to 80 base speed.

Shale

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1719 on: April 13, 2010, 02:59:24 AM »
I ended up using elemental-reduction berries to kill it with no changes save the addition of a L23 Growlithe, just suicide-blitzing until I wore down its HP. MVP: L21 Mantine with Surf.
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[23:02] <Veryslightlymad> CK dreams about me starring in porno?
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Meeplelard

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1720 on: April 13, 2010, 03:23:46 AM »
Pokemon SS: Suicune caught with Serious Nature! Fuck it, I'll take it; neutral is better than "yar lets nerf defense for attack hyuk hyuk"; the one with +Spd and -SpA I was debating, but I accidentally ejected the game in my pocket so SO MUCH FOR THAT!  Also catching Legendaries at day time is a lot harder than night time; DUSK BALLS FOR GODLIKE!

Also kicked the shit out of Brock.  Good Water types kick his ass, ACT SHOCKED!
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

Niu

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1721 on: April 13, 2010, 09:43:44 AM »
The last model (PDW-XN.V3) is servicable but not great. You get it with only 2 chapters left and it can't be customized nearly as well as the SMG-05 or the NP-05.C
Lies!! it can be tweaked into 50% acceleration on top of at least 97 Charge.
Or better yet, 218 charge on top of 44% acceleration, things starts to go crazy after the 5th cycle.
It certainly is late, yes, but most certainly not poor when comes into customization.

Also, the true evil is MP-05.C
If you are willing to sacrifice the charge and focus everything onto acceleration... it can goes up to 80%
And heavens fall apart once you hit the tenth cycle..... especially if you lift the enemy into air........

Also, you give Roen a bit too much credit on his durability, He is actually weak against all element outside physical and can be statused. On the other hand, the emo priest actually resist all element outside physical and actually has stataus immunity.

In fact I did manage to get a hit of it in during my successful attempt; I had him in the general vicinity keeping archer reinforcements off Marie/Ansom/Izuna and sent him over to help out after the final became helpless and Marie was freed up to laser the archers. It did 140 damage from memory, so it wasn't that spectacular (but then again high-strength Izuna was doing 50-odd damage off regular attacks, so I'm probably being deluded by his insane defences here).

If the final doesn't attack within a certain range, that would have been an enormous flaw in him but I don't understand why he wouldn't? I can't say anything about the range of his long-range spell, but I had his low-range spell on a couple of units and I don't remember it having a minimum range, and he was more than willing to use it at mid-range; never got the chance to see him use anything at short-range, so I can't confirm or deny what you're saying. It'd be bizarre if he didn't use it though.

The final has insane resistance against everything that is not Sedric.
And sometime he won't attack close range because he'll option of Pandemonium at close range, but that spell hurt allies as well, so there is a chance for the AI well refrain from using it.

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1722 on: April 13, 2010, 02:05:53 PM »
Psychonauts - Beaten.  Time logged: ~27 hours.

As written on the box, it's "A psychic adventure from the mind of Tim Schafer".

I heard good things about it and saw it at GameStop for $13 for the PS2, so I decided to pick it up.  I am not disappointed in the slightest.

I might type up a rant later, but I don't think I could come up with a single thing that I don't like.

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1723 on: April 13, 2010, 02:10:24 PM »
I am the milkman. My milk is delicious.
"Sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology."
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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #1724 on: April 13, 2010, 02:12:55 PM »
Man, I don't know how you can come out of Psychonauts with nothing to complain about, even if only about Arrow heads grinding or something in the Meat Circus.  When the game is great it is out of this world, when it hits its low points they are pretty tedious (And then it lets you be a Kaiju monster and everything is perfect).
NO MORE POKEMON - Meeplelard.
The king perfect of the DL is and always will be Excal. - Superaielman
Don't worry, just jam it in anyway. - SirAlex
Gravellers are like, G-Unit - Trancey.