Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!

[Hunter Sopko]

I'll probably go with Cross Edge next.

Don't subject yourself to that torture. Cross Edge isn't just bad but horrible and retarded in every single way imaginable so I advise you steer clear of such a monster.

Blah blah blah blah. I'll decide for myself, I've already played a bunch of IF games. It's old hat to me at this point.

[Meeplelard]

I liked it. Formula opacity isn't really that terrible sin, particularly for the vast majority of more or less casual gamers.

Not that SF wasn't rough around the edges. It was rough around the middle, really, to say nothing of the edges. But it was fun and quirky and difficult and huge in scope, so, yeah. Worked for me.

Yeah, more or less agree with this.  The DL has too much of this mindset of "MATH DAMAGE OUT!!!" whcih SaGa Frontier is completely against in that regard; when everything is internal and it leads to something that you don't care about, just "use move that does more damage" and figuring that out is easy in game (which is in SaGa Frontier for the most part), then its fine.  At the same time, SaGa Frontier plays like a Beta cause...well...there's a lot of things that feel unfinished; heck, the fact that they ripped out an entire story arc (Fuse was suppose to have his own, apparently, and one that ties all the quests together, which I guess would be opened after you finished all the others, and makes SaGa Frontier almost pretend its one story instead of 7 like it actually is), and completely cut down on another (Asellus; there's a lot of dummied text from it which...makes the whole Mystic vs. Human ending style thing a bit more appropriate, considering her story barely touches up on that at all), what have you...yeah, its fun and all that, but the game definitely felt unfinished.

Worse - pictures of them approving Final Fantasy II.

Umm...this is a really thing to imagine.

The year is 1988.  They just had a smashing success with Final Fantasy 1.

Square Guy #1: Hey, I got an idea! Lets make another game in the series, using the same graphics engine and what not!  However, we won't make it a sequel, just an entirely new story!
Square Guy #2: Hey, brilliant idea! We'll make lots of money off that! So what made the original game so successful?
Square Guy #3: It was unique compared to stuff like Dragon Quest! So lets try to be unique again!
Square Guy #1: I got it! Instead of leveling up like in other games, you get stats based on what you do!  But also, you build up weapons and magic!  It'll be like no other game before it!
Square Guy #2: Cool idea!

You can see what I'm getting at.  FF2 is really not such a bad thing on paper, and you have to consider the standards of which the game was made.  You're blatant "lol FF2 sucks" statement is really falling short for this reason, and is really not witty.  Its just a cheap shot that doesn't even make sense, cause FF2 is not a conceptually bad idea, ESPECIALLY for its time.  Yes, the game has issues and didn't turn out the way people wanted it...but back then that was more forgivable.

There are ideas I just facepalm at.  Dirge of Cerberus comes to mind; they made a 3rd person Shooting Game after a minor character that completely fucks with EVERYTHING FF7 had...and saw nothing wrong with it?

[hinode]

The fact that most pepole weren't saying that Spirits Within was a really, really, really bad idea at the time doesn't change the fact that it was a really, really, really bad idea that was embarassing to approve.

[Shale]

The idea was fine, as evidenced by the fact that the core idea (build the stats and spells you use, instead of gaining generic experience points) was spun off into the successful-in-its-own-right SaGa series. The final product didn't turn out good, but that was a matter of execution, not green-lighting a shitty idea; it's not like approving, say, BMX XXX.

[DjinnAndTonic]

How did these games even get made? Did someone have a picture of Square's execs fucking a dog?

Technically, it didn't really get made. It had it's budget snatched away mid-development so Square could make FF8.

...And SaGa Frontier is still probably the better game.

[Just Another Day]

How did these games even get made? Did someone have a picture of Square's execs fucking a dog?

Technically, it didn't really get made. It had it's budget snatched away mid-development so Square could make FF8.

...And SaGa Frontier is still probably the better game.

Snap!

Actually, I agree. Both are pretty innovative, but FF8 takes utterly no risks and thus ends up remarkably dull. Very polished, but again, excessively formulaic. SF lacks the polish, but makes it up in chutzpah.

FF8 had graphics, but time hasn't been kind to it and it's an ugly game now (whereas SFs sketchy sprites hold up in that weird way that sprites usually do). Its innovations, such as they were, were refined in later titles too (endless item/skill/class customization wankery in the years since, see FF13 and Star Oceans and...)

[hinode]

I'd rather replay Saga Frontier than FF8 these days (mainly due to length, plus SF is more entertaining to break), but I can't call it a better game because SF1 is stupidly beginner-unfriendly. Within about 30 minutes of an Emelia file, I got stuck in Tanzer with no MT moves so I couldn't beat the Slimes to escape. I would've given up right there if Super didn't hand me a cheat code to get Blue's teleport ability to get out.

[Hunter Sopko]

How did these games even get made? Did someone have a picture of Square's execs fucking a dog?

Technically, it didn't really get made. It had it's budget snatched away mid-development so Square could make FF8.

...And SaGa Frontier is still probably the better game.

I thought that was Xenogears?

[Dhyerwolf]

I don't need full formula opacity to play a game. Obviously, this helps a lot when making a stat topic, but it truly necessary. But hey, when playing a game? It's actually a pretty awesome thing. Do I care to use status, buffing, debuffing, various quirky attacks? Well, I could try out every single thing if the game doesn't throw in any opacity...which for every game is a pain in the ass. If you make it clear what everything does, generally how good it is, etc...it makes it much, much nicer for the player who likely will not want to thoroughly try out everything to see if it's any use. And yes, casually saying, I would like to know what stats I should focus on!

[Rozalia]

Blah blah blah blah. I'll decide for myself, I've already played a bunch of IF games. It's old hat to me at this point.

Suit yourself, it was just some friendly advice on my part.

[Meeplelard]

Thing is, SaGa Frontier is geared such that using Magic makes your magic stronger (Guns being better is irrelevant, since Magic still boosts the relevant stats at a good rate.)

Not knowing anything about the game, its easy to tell stuff like "oh hey, Vermillion Sand hits harder than other Realm magic!" or "Triple Thrust is a pretty good end game move!" The game is even nice enough in regards to Human Sword and Fist techniques such that you see the move you just learned on the spot, so you get an idea of how strong it is; furthermore, WP costs are often good indicators of what the move is good for, provided the move obviously doesn't have some "special" factor to it (be it MT, instant death, etc.), so simply going by More Expensive = Better move.

This applies pretty well to Magic too frankly; Mega Wind Blast, Vermillion Sand, Reverse Gravity, etc. all cost a lot more than stuff like Sun Ray, or Phantasm Shot.  And sure enough, they hit a lot harder, and are MT to boot (now, which of those moves are better among them...well, simple experimentation kicks in there; you equip 2 moves for one battle, cast them, see what does more, use that!)

Complicated as SaGa Frontier's mechanics are, they still get the job done; they have varying damage for a bunch of attacks, and you can distinguish strong vs. weak attacks.  I know when I played the game, I didn't care WHY Sky Twister was hitting harder than Babel Crumble, just the fact that it did!

That said...

The idea was fine, as evidenced by the fact that the core idea (build the stats and spells you use, instead of gaining generic experience points) was spun off into the successful-in-its-own-right SaGa series. The final product didn't turn out good, but that was a matter of execution, not green-lighting a shitty idea; it's not like approving, say, BMX XXX.

Pretty much agree with this.

FF2 is not the only game to be one of those "Cool on paper, but execution makes it not nearly as good" ideas.  Fire Emblem 4 and Phantasy Star 3 are both prime examples of this as well (if to different magnitudes)

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

SH2 - Bah, Kurando. Also, Lucia's buffs could've been -amazing- if they were in a game where they didn't hand you the Arc buffs far earlier than they ever should and were more user-friendly. On paper, her buffing game is far better than Ricardo's, but user friendliness isn't really there and you don't give a shit when you get Arc Rage, Arc Surge and Arc Gale earlier than Lucia starts getting worthwhile oils. I guess they stack, but why bother. >_>

[Tonfa]

Re: Formula opacity: There's really no excuse for a game to not at least give you something like Fire: Power 25, Megainferno: Power 280 in tooltips so you can easily refer to the power of a skill at a glance. Just feeling them out CAN be a pain especially in more exotic systems and you don't know if you're hitting elemental resistance/weakness/abnormally high/low defense or whatever.

For a particularly tedious example see VP2.

[Sierra]

Torchlight: Killin' zombies. Fire Trap, Fire Trap, Fire Trap.

[Anthony Edward Stark]

How did these games even get made? Did someone have a picture of Square's execs fucking a dog?

Technically, it didn't really get made. It had it's budget snatched away mid-development so Square could make FF8.

...And SaGa Frontier is still probably the better game.

I thought that was Xenogears?

It happened to Xenogears, I know that much. Probably happened to other shit, too.

[Hunter Sopko]

Cross Edge- Started. As usual, didn't go very far. Just to the first rest point. May is amusing. Basically a fiestier and slightly more competant version of Rin from Chaos Wars. Convenient that York carries pistols around with him though.

[Clear Tranquil]

*nods @ Snow* Did you try the Strike/Crit Booster oils yet? Also on other twink related matters have you found any shiny Mind's Eyes for Yuri/Joe yet? There's also the Extreme which should be coming up soon, that can be a bit of a pain depending on your skills with the RNG though. Oh and think there's a point of no return as far as the Extreme's concerned. I can't remember for sure though but yeah might be worth a FAQ. Kurando can also make use of Mind's Eye/Extreme =-)


FFXIII- What the hell Mission 64. Sure glad that's over. Several resets even though my party was fairly beefed up with max roles and everything from their post game wanderings. Not Max Crystarium but still. A real fight that kept me on my toes *^_^* I didn't know whether I should be happy (that the game was still giving me a challenge) or frustrated it was taking me so long =P

[superaielman]

L4D2-  I need to pay more attention in versus to my surroundings. Oh well. Thsi is still fun, even if balancing games with the DL crew is a bitch and a half.

FE10- Still at 4-2, haven't felt like playing this. Still going to try to beat it by this weekend.

FE7- Up to map 15. To say that the game is a step down from FE10 in challenge is a slight understatement- I'm seeing Dorcas double enemies and Serra is 3HKOed by non bosses with physicals. Yeah.  Dorcas and Marcus have been my best combat units in Hector mode, with Sain being my best in Lyn mode. Let Matthew and Lowen die since I didn't care enough to bother healing them. Dorcas finally gained speed (3 in 3 levels in fact) and he has a ton of HP. I'm using some restrictions on my team as well. I'm not using any of my normal PC's, or any PC's who are fast with the exception of Dart. (Expensive, RNG reliant)

Team: Eliwood, Marcus, Sain, Serra, Dorcas, Isadora, Geitz, Nils/Ninian, Wil, Renault, Dart, Heath, Vaida. I reserve the right to use Athos for the dragon just in case as well. No thief should make things interesting as well (;_;).

Playing this reminds me what a drastic improvement FE9 was to the series.

[Xeroma]

re: L4D2 - I just wish my PC was good enough to play and I'd be all over playing super.

Been playing a bunch of games lately. Been focusing on Macross Ultimate Frontier lately, which sparked me marathoning the whole Macross series[will make a big anime topic post about it after I watch Zero and Frontier possibly?]. Also dabbling with Pokemon Soul Silver[got all 16 badges, just aftergameness now], Samurai Warriors 3[almost unlocked every character...], and practicing in Super Street Fighter 4. Using Guile currently, dunno if that'll change or not when I get less bad at the game though.

[OblivionKnight]

The problem's been balancing the teams, really.

Super curses whatever team he's on, unless it has Laggy AND Trips together, in which case it dominates the world.  It probably would be more balanced with 8, though - that way the teams could be more dilute/concentrated as needed.

[Shale]

Clearly the only solution is for me to play on their team, so I can drag everyone down by shooting them in the back of the head by "accident."

[OblivionKnight]

I try that with Super - it never works as well as you wish it would ;_;

[SageAcrin]

The only way you get a balanced team with Laggy and Trips in the game and both on the same team is if you have a numerical advantage on the other side, at least going by TF2, if you're making up a game of just DLers. >_>

(TF2-wise I want to say at least it wouldn't be a slaughter if Demo/Medic worked against Soldier/Medic; At least Monkey and I could try to combat the two then. But it doesn't. It also doesn't work against Soldier/Scout. Pyro/Medic doesn't work against any of them either. So essentially it comes down to one of our inferior-to-Trips Soldiers.

There's also the fact that Monkey isn't that kind of Demo anyways, ambush focus, but oh well.)

[Shale]

Upgrade to Molotov cocktails.

[AAA]

We tried a 4v2 game, with me and Laggy on the same side, and that didn't work either.