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Author Topic: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!  (Read 367939 times)

Meeplelard

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #3225 on: July 28, 2010, 12:41:55 AM »
I was aware, Idun, just noting that S3 is generally well liked in the DL, so you'll find a lot of people saying its good.
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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #3226 on: July 28, 2010, 12:43:35 AM »
My sister's been playing Suikoden 3 as well. She also likes it!

Yaaaay Suikoden 3!
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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #3227 on: July 28, 2010, 01:13:56 AM »
Suiko-talk!

I personally enjoyed S5's plot more than S3. Better villains too, to be sure. S3 did some really great things with pacing and the trinity sight system that I'd like to see implemented in more games.

Gameplaywise, apart from the pathfinding issue that Zenny brought up, S3's skill-building system and partnering was a lot more sophistocated than S2's, and apart from that, the battle system is practically identical, so I've never really gotten the complaints that it was so different. Did a really great job with recruitment requirements, whereas S5 kinda dropped the ball there (though I personally enjoyed the recruitment stuff in S5, due to copious FAQing).

So... apart from a really good base concept and lots of returning Stars of Destiny, I don't really see the S2 hype myself. It's certainly better than 1 and 4, but it just feels kinda standard compared to S3's better battle system/recruitment/pacing and S5's better story/villains.

Storywise: S5 > Tierkreis > S3 > S2 > ST > S1 > S4
Gameplay: S3 > S2 > ST > S5 > S4 > Tierkreis > S1
Overall: S3 > S5 > S2 > Tierkreis > ST > S1 > S4

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #3228 on: July 28, 2010, 01:21:47 AM »
In a contrast to my usual response to Djinn, I agree almost entirely with Djinn's lists and most of the things he said, too. Except the comment that S5 recruitment is enjoyable with FAQing. That is a great gap in our values.

I want to play Tierkries at some point but lazy.


Anyway, more XF. Time for updates from the sekret base.

3-10 (Asgard and the undead)

Clarissa: Enigmancer; Emu/SS OC, Elem EQ, Widespread, Crisis Rfx Up
Elayne: Emulator; Fant/SS OC, Elem EQ, Mag+25%, Accelerate
Felius: Fantastica; Ext OC, Eva+25%, Gadg EQ, Item Effect Up, Item Range Up

Bit of an odd setup here. I'd totally forgotten Felius was forced here, and I wanted a second Fantastica for Slow Down and Rush, this probably wasn't necessary however. I decide to have Clarissa grab IFF since she's literally one battle for it, even though Emulator is definitely a far better carrier.

Anyway, there are multiple Emulators with Electrigger and Dangerous Matter here, I make sure to grab both with both my Emulators. Otherwise, since all the randoms are undead, they're easy enough to dispatch with Sanctify. Felius' offence is laughably useless due to equipping a wrench, so he doesn't really... do much besides chip in the occasional berry, but he doesn't need to.

Asgard is, of course, the real threat, but with his 75% misery vulnerability there's a limit to how big a threat he can be. This is basically equivalent to destroying his MP, except it can be done in a single, long-range action. Even after this Asgard isn't quite trivial since his Barrier Fist does OHKO physical damage and I'm not packing Mesmerise, but Slow Down and Debilitator greatly limit the turns he can get, and Electrigger + Action Replay + Felius wrench physicals take him out quickly enough. There's a bit of tension as I'm distracted by his flunkies interrupting the fight who take two Sanctifies each to kill, but nothing too bad.

3-11-A (Misery blobs and Anchor Hook)

I consider doing this one with solo Alexia packing Status Lock and some Peppy Acorns, but then decide hey, might as well get the CSP, even if it pretty much has to be Extremist CSP.

Clarissa: Extremist; Emu/Enig OC, Elem EQ, Widespread, IFF
Elayne: Extremist; Enig/Fant OC, Elem EQ, Accelerate, Mag+25%
Vin: Extremist; Gadg/Fant/Sent OC, Weapon Block

Note the presence of Dispel and Mystic to remove Misery. All three PCs pack principally Peppy Acorns in order to heal themselves of the annoying status, too. Besides that, it's a matter of using Anchor Hook to proceed through the map. The blobs are killed with a combination of Anchor Hook to pull them into pits, Heavy Strike to do the same, and magic ranging from Electrigger to Petrify to Devastate. Not terribly hard as long as the misery issue is addressed. Rush to make Anchor Hook more usable.

3-11-B (Felius duel)

Felius: Secutor; Extr/Fant OC, Gadg EQ, Item Effect Up

Felius' defence means Weisheit can only do something like 15 damage to him outside gravity, which makes this battle very easy. I'm not even really twinked for it; Sentinel would be able to null out his damage entirely.

3-11-C (Weisheit gets serious)

Clarissa: Emulator; DS/SS/Extr OC, Elem EQ
Elayne: Emulator; Enig/Fant OC, Elem EQ, Mag+25%, Accelerate
Vin: Strider; Grap/Fant OC, Sec EQ, Atk+25%

Finally Weisheit graduates from "bad joke" status. Still, he's vulnerable to gravity in this form, as well as Rob Turn (in this and every other form). Basic strategy is to hit him with Slow Down and Debilitator and then start using Rob Turn while Dangerous Matter makes my main offence. When the first Rob Turn misses, though, I come up with another, better idea; throw him onto the ground outside the central area. It's 4 panels below the main platform, which is too high for Rank of Death, AND too high for him to climb back up. So this becomes very easy. The same strategy will probably work for Weisheit 5, too.

3-12-A (Asgard's last stand)

Clarissa: Emulator; Extr/SS/Enig OC, Elem EQ
Elayne: Emulator; Fant/SS OC, Elem EQ, Mag+25%, Accelerate
Vin: Strider; Fant/Extr OC, Gadg/Sec EQ, Atk+25%

Once again, Asgard's perilous vulnerability to Misery does him in, and this time I can slap Mesmerise on top of it for good measure so I don't need to fear Barrier Fist as much. Debilitator and Slow Down to draw out the effects, Electrigger and Action Replay benefitting from Exploit Weakness = kaboom. Three-man formation arts wrench attacks for some added spice. Fortunately the game knows better than to throw solo bosses at me after this. Elayne hits Level 50, yay.

3-12-B (A golem hunter never lies!)

Clarissa: Emulator; SS/Enig OC, Elem EQ, Widespread, IFF
Elayne: Emulator; Gadg/SS OC, Elem/Gadg EQ, Mag+25%, Accelerate
Vin: Strider; Fant/Grap OC, Gadg/Sec EQ, Atk+25%

Twelve Asgards! Oh shit. Electrocute everything in sight, heal when necessary... the golems aren't bad on offence but with my massive-ranged 350 damage attacks they're kinda outmatched. Just need to be a little cautious as I do split up to cover the map in a reasonable length of time. Golems, sadly, are nearly status-immune (moreso than Asgard!) so that particular strategy isn't too helpful yet. Don't worry Levin, I'll use you eventually! Probably.

3-13-A (be kind, rewind)

A bit harder, certainly. The same basic offensive strategy applies despite the inclusion of undead; you'll note I already have two PCs packing Sanctify. With Sanctify and Electrigger hitting for massive damage, offence isn't really a problem. I keep Vin with a wrench because the golems are ceratinly the more numerous and dangerous enemies here.

The Smoky Specimen is the map's real danger. His speed is quite competent, and on his sixth turn, it's game over for you. Can you reach him in 6 turns? Not just by walking the old-fashoined way. A few strategies work here, such as IFF Grappler to toss PCs to him quickly, or a Nightstalker (particularly packing something like Blackout or Forcefield). However, I opt with the simplest strategy I have, which is to spam Turn Shift with my two mages like mad. Thanks to Emulator being the broken class it is, I can actually do this without deeply impacting my resources. I don't have to go all out, so I do stop periodically to blow things up with Sanctify (nailing 3 of the initial 4 undead with one, Vin takes out the other) and Electrigger. Finally, I reach the stairs and one range 6 electrigger takes out the bastard.

Only other thing worth noting is the golems who spam Spread Barrier from long range. Since they act all consecutively it's quite threatening, but nothing Widespread Heal and Turn Shift abuse isn't up to handling. If the rest of the enemies were better, it would be quite a problem.

And here I thought Turn Shift would be unbroken from this playthrough. Maybe not...

3-13-B (Queen of the desert)

Clarissa: Emulator; SS/DS OC, Elem EQ, Widespread, IFF
Elayne: Emulator; SS/Extr OC, Elem/Gadg EQ, Mag+25%, Accelerate
Vin: Strider; Fant/Grap OC, Gadg/Sec EQ, Atk+25%

The toughest battle in the Secret Base, and the second toughest battle in the chapter. However, note the lack of resets. Chapter 3 ain't that hard.

Much like the previous Weisheit battle, except the Grappler strategy ain't working this time, and gravity is no longer an option for speeding up the offence. Oh, and there's six rather pesky golems to deal with, too. Rob Turn is Weisheit's only remaining meaningful weakness, and it's one I am quite ready to abuse. It's not perfectly reliable, but it does stop a lot of Weisheit's turns.

The beginning of the battle is particularly dicy. Although Weisheit's first Rank of Death is easy to avoid, it gets tricky thereafter, and the golems demand attention. Fortunately Electrigger still does its thing, Elayne's two-shots all and one-shots some, where Clarissa's ranges from 1HKO to 3HKO but has Widespread. Rob Turning has to be a focus as quickly as possible, too, as does Slow Down and Debilitator. Sadly one of my first key Rob Turns misses and Vin is killed. From there, it's a very tangled mess of Turn Shifts, golem killing, Rob Turning, and reviving, and reapplying negative statuses. In total the golems claim a kill and Weisheit claims two more, and Clarissa gets dangerously low on MP, but I do manage things. The final offensive is mostly launched, after Fragile, in the form of Electrigger and Swift Shock/Drop Kick with Action Replay thrown in for good measure. Action Replay is pretty cool, incidentally. Clarissa is out of MP by the end which is certainly potentially dangerous, so it is quite a bit of a scape through, but in some ways the battle isn't as bad as I feared.

Chapter 3 is complete~

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Meeplelard

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #3229 on: July 28, 2010, 03:09:16 AM »
Dead Rising: Gotta find some stupid spanish bitch now.  Think this is the 4th Case File?

I tried fighting Cliff, died miserably.  I did get to kill a whole bunch of cultists though!
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

Captain K.

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #3230 on: July 28, 2010, 04:40:03 AM »
I didn't care for S3, but I had already played S5 which is better in just about every way.

The multiple viewpoint thing didn't work for me - it was basically just repetition.  Playing later viewpoints should have revealed spoilarz for the previous ones so you say "Oh, *that's* why they did that."  This is the one thing that Odin Sphere got right.

DQ9:  Been at the final dungeon for three days, but can't bring myself to finish the game because I'm so busy doing quests and alchemy.  This game is like minutiae crack.

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« Last Edit: July 28, 2010, 04:42:20 AM by Captain K. »

OblivionKnight

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #3231 on: July 28, 2010, 04:58:41 AM »
Suikoden commentary from OK no one cares about...

S4 > STactics > S1 = S2 > S5 > S3.

I like S3's trinity system, but the game felt so slow and really did bore me overall.  For all that elves lie about awesome characters being in S5, it is a good game, just...I probably need to play it again to get a better view.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2010, 05:32:05 AM by OblivionKnight »
[11:53] <+Meeple_Gorath> me reading, that's a good one

[19:26] * +Terra_Condor looks up. Star Wars Football, what?
[19:27] <+Terra_Condor> Han Kicks First?
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Vader intercepts.
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Touchdown and Alderaan explodes in the victory

Just Another Day

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #3232 on: July 28, 2010, 05:07:12 AM »
S4 > ST > S1 = S2 > S5 > S3.

Hilariously, this is exactly the opposite of my rankings (well, haven't played Tierkris yet, but wouldn't be surprised if that's where it falls for me). I'm a sucker for complex skill systems, I think S3 has the strongest battle engine of the series, and I like attempts, flawed though they may be, at creative narrative constructions. Also, easily the best villains of the Suikoden series, I think, especially with the epilogue chapter (2 dimensions? Impossible!)

4 feels like a flawed sequel to 2, 5 feels like an across-the-board improvement on 4, but 3 always seems like it was full of fruitful innovation that just got dropped in later games.

Cmdr_King

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #3233 on: July 28, 2010, 05:24:22 AM »
ST here would presumably be Suikoden Tactics.  Tierkreis isn't well enough played to make people's hierarchies yet (or, in a few cases, the people that have played it don't consider it as a Suikoden game)
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Luther Lansfeld

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #3234 on: July 28, 2010, 05:29:29 AM »
I think most people would like that list better in reverse, JAD. >_>;;
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OblivionKnight

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #3235 on: July 28, 2010, 05:32:47 AM »
why you be hatin' on me, girl?
[11:53] <+Meeple_Gorath> me reading, that's a good one

[19:26] * +Terra_Condor looks up. Star Wars Football, what?
[19:27] <+Terra_Condor> Han Kicks First?
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Vader intercepts.
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Touchdown and Alderaan explodes in the victory

Ultradude

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #3236 on: July 28, 2010, 05:34:48 AM »
why you be hatin' on me, girl?

Maybe you're crazy?

I dunno. Have only played 3 so I can't really chime in other than to say that I like S3 quite a bit.
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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #3237 on: July 28, 2010, 05:56:09 AM »
Putting S4 above anything is just sad. It's like you were saying Suikoden was somehow too complicated.

Luther Lansfeld

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #3238 on: July 28, 2010, 06:18:01 AM »
Putting S4 above anything is just sad. It's like you were saying Suikoden was somehow too complicated.
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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #3239 on: July 28, 2010, 06:18:23 AM »
Storywise... S3 > S2 >  S5 > ST > S1 > S4

Overall? S2 >= S3 >> S5 >= ST > S4 > S1

While I liked S5 and it does some good stuff, it just feels too much like a Suikoden Paint-By-Numbers to really hold it up on high. S1 hasn't aged well and I never got a whole lot out of it. S2 was an utter and complete refinement to everything S1 did... and did it right! Iron Chef forever.

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #3240 on: July 28, 2010, 06:21:58 AM »
Suikoden commentary from OK no one cares about...

Damnit people, IGNORE ME!!!  MY OPINION NEVER COUNTS!!!
[11:53] <+Meeple_Gorath> me reading, that's a good one

[19:26] * +Terra_Condor looks up. Star Wars Football, what?
[19:27] <+Terra_Condor> Han Kicks First?
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Vader intercepts.
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Touchdown and Alderaan explodes in the victory

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #3241 on: July 28, 2010, 06:24:32 AM »
Nier: Hunting down MacGuffins. I ran through the Junk Heap dungeon and everyone acted like I was done there, but I don't think I actually found a key. Weird.

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #3242 on: July 28, 2010, 07:13:56 AM »
My only real regret with Suikoden I & 2 is how unpolished the localisation job seems to have been. "Jowy" and "Joey" come to mind. If I had the knowhow I'd definitely go into the game coding and correct that mistake, just because I'm anal about stuff like that.

When I heard they were ported to PSP, I admit I was hoping, begging for a localisation that did it right. I'm still kind of hoping a company'll pick it up, but my hopes are low. :(

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #3243 on: July 28, 2010, 08:44:12 AM »
I didn't care for S3, but I had already played S5 which is better in just about every way.

The multiple viewpoint thing didn't work for me - it was basically just repetition.  Playing later viewpoints should have revealed spoilarz for the previous ones so you say "Oh, *that's* why they did that."  This is the one thing that Odin Sphere got right.

This was basically my view with S3 multi-view. Nice that you tried something different, but I didn't overall find them interesting or varied enough for what they were trying to do.
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Meeplelard

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #3244 on: July 28, 2010, 12:47:24 PM »
Actually,  Odin Sphere did it horribly, cause it DOESN'T do what you say.  In some cases, it places things in completely illogical areas.  One scene that sticks out to me...

*Gwen beats big giant guy, next scene*
Odin: Gwen! You've betrayed me! You are banished!
Me: Wait a minute, that guy was going to kill someone who had info YOU NEEDED, and was actually going against your orders, AND YOU KNEW THIS.  If anything, SHE KILLED THE TRAITOR, not actually is the one.

*Velvet's story, we actually see why Gwen was a traitor in a scene dedicated almost specifically to Gwen!*

Ok, seeing what happened is nice...but that scene was important for Gwendolyn development, and we don't see it until Velvet's chapter?  Its not a Velvet-centric scene, she's just "Kind of there."  I can see not showing ALL Gwen related stuff in Gwen's chapters, cutting out the stuff that isn't significant to her story...but this scene was significant for Gwen in EVERY WAY.
I could forgive the moment if this stuff happened outside of the Chronology of Gwen's story, but it very obviously did not, and it is important for Gwen's story for MAKING SENSE in a completely Gwendolyn related way.

I don't think OS actually did something as bad as this anywhere else, but egads was that one of the worst stunts.  Suikoden 3, if a scene was important for Hugo, THEY'D SHOW IT DURING HUGO'S STORY, like you're suppose to do.  Furthermore, Suikoden 3 story happened all in the rough same continuity.  Heck, actually, the game does do the "Oh, that's why this happened!" thing...right in Chap 1.

Hugo, we see the Zexen Knights burning the village, and we don't know why; we assume they're just pricks.
In Chris', IIRC, Salome just said "We'll attack the village, not to hurt anyone, but to divert their attention away from the battlefield" which while not exactly a "GOOD" thing, sounds far less douchy; the burning thing goes a bit too far and doesn't really seem to fit in with the strategy...
Until we see Luc's story where we learn there was FOUL PLAY AFOOT and such.

Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but yeah.  There were plenty of scenarios where the game gives the "Why" from the other character perspective.  Odin Sphere most definitely didn't do this, sans maybe Oswald's story as a whole, but that really felt more like a "Fill in gaps" as Gwen's has a bit of an indeterminate time jump, which Oswald's story is primarily dealt with showing what happened during (and...why he's suddenly on Gwen's side despite being her enemy in the game's intro.)
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[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #3245 on: July 28, 2010, 01:18:26 PM »
I'm also very pro-Suikoden 3 despite finding the rest of the series terrible. (NO IT'S NOT ONLY BECAUSE OF SUIKODOGS, SHUT UP MEEPLE!)

Instead of having a silent feminine overly gay main character, you get three seperate dynamic characters each with their own storyline and they all speak.  There's no stupidly annoying female sidekick (never played Suikoden 4 so don't judge me one this).  Villains are bad but camp and hilarious. There's talking ducks. TALKING DUCKS THAT WIELD AXES.  PCs are much more variable than what rune affinities they have.  The buddy system means you enter less commands, which beats the stupid formation system which makes no sense.  War battles are fun.  Equipment management is serviceable and the game is easy to replay.

The only problems are the 1000 times you spent backtracking because Viki doesn't come sooner and the horrible music.  Also I find Caesar the worst strategist which is awfully bad because I didn't like the rest of the Silverburgs either.

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #3246 on: July 28, 2010, 01:22:51 PM »
I haven't played Velvet's story yet, but that scene made sense to me. Odin didn't know Brigan was a traitor (despite the whole thing with Velvet), and he wouldn't believe Gwen when she told him, thus leaving him with "My daughter killed our kingdom's greatest warrior. Well, shit."
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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #3247 on: July 28, 2010, 02:10:01 PM »
My only real regret with Suikoden I & 2 is how unpolished the localisation job seems to have been. "Jowy" and "Joey" come to mind. If I had the knowhow I'd definitely go into the game coding and correct that mistake, just because I'm anal about stuff like that.

When I heard they were ported to PSP, I admit I was hoping, begging for a localisation that did it right. I'm still kind of hoping a company'll pick it up, but my hopes are low. :(

S2's translation has all kinds of polish issues; look at the cruel and frequent abuse of punctuation marks.  That all said:

S2=S3>S5>>>>S1>ST>>S4

S2 I put a hair ahead of S3. It's the little things in S2 that I really enjoyed (Trading, rune twinking, minigames in general), whereas S3 changed the formula up and did a good job with it. S5 has excellent plot and the combat isn't terrible, just too easy and the random rate+loading is too damn high.  S1 is has some cool ideas and potential that S2 works on, even if it isn't nearly as good as the top three. ST is a generic SRPG that I need to finish. S4 is S4.
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
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<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

Ultradude

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #3248 on: July 28, 2010, 04:11:10 PM »
I haven't played Velvet's story yet, but that scene made sense to me. Odin didn't know Brigan was a traitor (despite the whole thing with Velvet), and he wouldn't believe Gwen when she told him, thus leaving him with "My daughter killed our kingdom's greatest warrior. Well, shit."

Having only played part of Gwen's story, this is what I thought happened.
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Meeplelard

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Re: Let's Play Some Motherf*$&ing Games: 2010!!!!!!
« Reply #3249 on: July 28, 2010, 04:53:56 PM »
I may be misremembering Gwen's story, but something huge and Gwen related happens in Velvet's story, which is the reason behind that, and Velvet's entire purpose in the scene is "She's there."  Well, no, a little more than that, but the scene strongly emphasizes on Gwen there, making it questionable as to why it wasn't in Gwen's story to begin with.
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A