Season 57, Week 2: Tentacles engulf godlike.

[Monkeyfinger]

Godlike:

Cloud of Darkness (FF3) vs Nel Zelpher (SO3)
Lambda Zellweger (WA4) vs Cyril (SO2)
Endora (OB) vs Riou (S2)
Rolf Landale (PS2) vs Heat (DDS)

Heavy:

Ness (EB) vs Elena (G2)
Albel Nox (SO3) vs Billy Lee Black (XG)
Cliff Fittir (SO3) Vs Articuno (PKMN)
Edea Kramer (FF8) vs Suicune (PKMN)

Middle:

Noa (LoL1) vs Dalton (CT)
Roan (G2) vs Black Wizard (FF1)
Taro (Disgaea 2) vs Eliwood (FE7)
Sharon (S3) vs Blaziken (PKMN)

Light:

Lucied (WAs) vs Mystina (VP1)
Shir Gold (PS2) vs Karyl Sheeden (ToD)
Tia (Lufia 2) vs Riddel Viper (CC)
Sten (BoF2) vs Yushis (OB)

[Monkeyfinger]

Godlike:

Endora (OB) vs Riou (S2): Hutting that the MEvade isn't good enough.

Heavy:

Ness (EB) vs Elena (G2): Grandia statuses don't tend to last too long and have a nasty habit of wearing off when the opponent is closer to getting a turn. Elena had sleep and silence? And 5HKOs Ness with her big tech, 10HKOs without it? Whenever she misses a status she gets smacked, whenever she lands one it's almost certain she won't be able to chain statuses long enough to kill. And Ness has like 3 times as much healing. Not looking good for Elena here.
Albel Nox (SO3) vs Billy Lee Black (XG): Hastes, heals, and builds up AP until Albel sucks him dry, then unleashes a full combo and kills.
Cliff Fittir (SO3) Vs Articuno (PKMN): Unless Articuno had a better 2HKO than I remember. Cliff is faster and 3HKOs.
Edea Kramer (FF8) vs Suicune (PKMN): Boss Edea.... eheheh. Not when she has that late-ish PC form.

Middle:

Taro (Disgaea 2) vs Eliwood (FE7): Waiting for arguments.

Light:

Tia (Lufia 2) vs Riddel Viper (CC): Here too.
Sten (BoF2) vs Yushis (OB): They're both pretty good, but... yeah.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Godlike:

Cloud of Darkness (FF3) vs Nel Zelpher (SO3): Nel gets turned into a toad and needs a kiss from Princess Maria to save her.
Lambda Zellweger (WA4) vs Cyril (SO2): Cyril isn't nearly durable enough to overpower the special power of crying.

Heavy:

Albel Nox (SO3) vs Billy Lee Black (XG): Xenogears has Confusion and a blocker for it. See Monkey. A full combo will outright OHKO but thanks to Haste, Billy only needs, like, an 18 AP one at most doubled with a normal deathblow.
Cliff Fittir (SO3) Vs Articuno (PKMN): Articuno has a monstrous 2HKO in RBY at least. (Second highest damage after Mewtwo.)
Edea Kramer (FF8) vs Suicune (PKMN): Not sure how I feel about Edea.

Middle:

Roan (G2) vs Black Wizard (FF1): Roan is faster and 2HKOs.
Sharon (S3) vs Blaziken (PKMN): I'm not sure I see Sharon with Funeral Wind, and I'm not sure I see her spells hitting weakness. I don't think it matters. With her Silver Shield she only gets 3HKOed by magic while mocking physicals (and thus, Bulk Up), and Wind of Sleep does buy her extra turns to complete her own 3HKO, not to mention she's faster.

Light:

Lucied (WAs) vs Mystina (VP1): If Mystina had Heal, maybe...
Tia (Lufia 2) vs Riddel Viper (CC): Surely.

Go Sten!

[Dhyerwolf]

Godlike:

Cloud of Darkness (FF3) vs Nel Zelpher (SO3)
Lambda Zellweger (WA4) vs Cyril (SO2)
Endora (OB) vs Riou (S2)- Uhh...Endora hurts my head like always.
Rolf Landale (PS2) vs Heat (DDS)- Uh, I think?

Heavy:

Ness (EB) vs Elena (G2)- I don't believe Silence wore off. Sleep and Paralysis have a shitty duration, yes. At least, I bothered to note Sleep and Paralysis' duration, and yet didn't get ones for Fiora/Silence, which makes me think their duration is either evilly long or permanent.
Albel Nox (SO3) vs Billy Lee Black (XG)
Cliff Fittir (SO3) Vs Articuno (PKMN)- Both 3HKO, unsure where I see Cliff's speed.
Edea Kramer (FF8) vs Suicune (PKMN)

Middle:

Noa (LoL1) vs Dalton (CT)- Front loaded works well against Dlaton
Roan (G2) vs Black Wizard (FF1)
Taro (Disgaea 2) vs Eliwood (FE7)- FE loses in a counter war is amusing thing, but Taro doesn't need that to win anyways.
Sharon (S3) vs Blaziken (PKMN)

Light:

Lucied (WAs) vs Mystina (VP1)
Shir Gold (PS2) vs Karyl Sheeden (ToD)
Tia (Lufia 2) vs Riddel Viper (CC)
Sten (BoF2) vs Yushis (OB)

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Cloud of Darkness (FF3) vs Nel Zelpher (SO3) - FF3j CoD does grind Nel's resources a bunch, but SO3 MP is just too goddamned stupid, honestly. CoD needed to not 3HKO. I do have to note NEB's explanation is pretty hilarious, though.
Lambda Zellweger (WA4) vs Cyril (SO2) - No Laggy durability hype.
Endora (OB) vs Riou (S2) - I don't give Endora evade that much credit, I don't think, and she needs it bad.
Rolf Landale (PS2) vs Heat (DDS) - Rolf misses the OHKO and that's that.

Ness (EB) vs Elena (G2) - Between their speed being very close (as in Ness could well be faster, even - both are below average speed at around the same area) and Elena not blocking ID to me, I feel this is pretty clear. I don't think I even consider Fiora to be turn one, which pretty much clinches it. Elena is no Nina1.
Albel Nox (SO3) vs Billy Lee Black (XG) - Yeah no. Billy only needs the MP to cast Haste to win here, and that comes by pretty easy.
Cliff Fittir (SO3) vs Articuno (PKMN) - 2HKOs, isn't 2HKOed unless Cliff's -entire- chain is Fire. And it wouldn't matter even if it was. Also, Cliff wasn't one of the faster fighters in SO3, so him being faster is a bit questionable to me - and heck, his durability endgame isn't impressive either. He hates his HP lead dwindling like it does by endgame.
Edea Kramer (FF8) vs Suicune (PKMN) - I honestly don't want to vote on this.

Noa (LoL1) vs Dalton (CT) - Eh. I think I buy Noa killing Dalton before he gets enough Iron Balls to finish her off.
Roan (G2) vs Black Wizard (FF1) - Roan manages what an entire Light season pathetically failed to do.
Sharon (S3) vs Blaziken (PKMN) - Unlike NEB, I certainly do see Sharon having Funeral Wind at endgame (the one I find it questionable to allow is Shabon - in fact, I'm pretty sure I don't give it to her). Like NEB, I don't think it really matters.

Lucied (WAs) vs Mystina (VP1) - lol vp mage
Shir Gold (PS2) vs Karyl Sheeden (ToD) - Shir loathes, loathes, loathes healers.
Tia (Lufia 2) vs Riddel Viper (CC) - um.
Sten (BoF2) vs Yushis (OB) - Yeah. Yushis ain't bad, but Sten just sorta has the tools to manhandle her.

[superaielman]

Godlike:

Lambda Zellweger (WA4) vs Cyril (SO2)
Endora (OB) vs Riou (S2)- Literally a coinflip fight. Bot says Riou hits turn one.
Rolf Landale (PS2) vs Heat (DDS)

Heavy:

Albel Nox (SO3) vs Billy Lee Black (XG)- Pending a check on his MP damage, but yeah. I'm surprised Billy gets the time to use a full AP combo+another tech, but Albel damage.
Cliff Fittir (SO3) Vs Articuno (PKMN)- Cliff's armor gives him a 30% chance to resist magic damage. Good enough for me.
Edea Kramer (FF8) vs Suicune (PKMN)- Definitely go with the boss form. Suicune can't do anything about Death.

Middle:

Noa (LoL1) vs Dalton (CT)- Dalton blows.
Roan (G2) vs Black Wizard (FF1)
Taro (Disgaea 2) vs Eliwood (FE7)
Sharon (S3) vs Blaziken (PKMN)

Light:

Lucied (WAs) vs Mystina (VP1)
Shir Gold (PS2) vs Karyl Sheeden (ToD)
Tia (Lufia 2) vs Riddel Viper (CC)- Riddel has no damage techs and gameworst STR. Bad combo.
Sten (BoF2) vs Yushis (OB)- That holy resist lets him skate by.

[Yoshiken]

Cliff Fittir (SO3) Vs Articuno (PKMN) - Pretty much comes down to speed. Both are barely above average, but I respect TB speed more than ARPG running speed.
Edea Kramer (FF8) vs Suicune (PKMN) - Boss form, ID.

[OblivionKnight]

Godlike:

Cloud of Darkness (FF3) vs Nel Zelpher (SO3) - Cloud of Darkness smite puny lesbians
Lambda Zellweger (WA4) vs Cyril (SO2) - Cyril.  Insane durability, eventually hits Lambda and kills him
Endora (OB) vs Riou (S2) - Endora...I guess
Rolf Landale (PS2) vs Heat (DDS) - Heat

Heavy:

Ness (EB) vs Elena (G2) - Ness - Crystal Charm means he does move faster, maybe!?
Albel Nox (SO3) vs Billy Lee Black (XG) - Albel.  Not sure he gets the time to get a full combo off - Albel shoots first, rips a large portion of Billy's EP off, and then drains his way away.  Billy's defense isn't great, but he needs to use Haste (to get first strike from now on in the turn order), so the defense boost is out.  He eventually runs out of healing as Albel rips his EP off, and eventually dies to damage, I think.
Cliff Fittir (SO3) Vs Articuno (PKMN) - Cliff.  MP-kills, probably.
Edea Kramer (FF8) vs Suicune (PKMN) - Edea...forget how good the boss was, but probably enough

Middle:

Noa (LoL1) vs Dalton (CT) - Noa <3
Roan (G2) vs Black Wizard (FF1) - Roan.  Finally, someone above a 3.00 ranking.  Racist wizard is going down
Taro (Disgaea 2) vs Eliwood (FE7) - Taro.  A retarded goat could be Elitard
Sharon (S3) vs Blaziken (PKMN) - Sharon

Light:

Lucied (WAs) vs Mystina (VP1) - ...bleh, VP1 stuff wasn't storebought anyway.  Lucied smashes
Shir Gold (PS2) vs Karyl Sheeden (ToD) - So...Karyl's damage is below average (80% of average, so 32% to most people?  I don't use those views, so someone check me on it), barely below average HP (96%), slightly below average defense (95%).  He does have shitloads of TP, though = 731, with healing being 18 and damage being 38.  Was Golden Voice physical?  Shir can toss on an emel for 271 defense to 258 average (106%, with 89% HP).  She does have infinite healing from the unique TruthSleeves, which heal 38% of her HP, and infinite 20 damage Zans from her Wind Scarf.  If you believe in EXA turns, she is 133% speed.  So, the question is...if that 38% healing is anywhere close to Karyl's damage...which it is close, I don't do math for these things, so someone else might want to look into it...Shir infinite heals Karyl out of TP.  Zan is awful damage, but it is infinite, so Shir can spam it with two shields behind her healing.  Rumba...I've never seen hit, though it's stated to be somewhat decent, and Lullaby is stated to be crappy, so Karyl could win through that, but I can't make a note of it since we have no randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled studies on it.  Think it's a bit closer than people have noted previously.  
Tia (Lufia 2) vs Riddel Viper (CC) - Tia...spells!
Sten (BoF2) vs Yushis (OB) - Sten.

[superaielman]

Billy's defense buff is glitched and does nothing anyway.

[Ultradude]

Heavy:

Cliff Fittir (SO3) Vs Articuno (PKMN)

Middle:

Sharon (S3) vs Blaziken (PKMN)

[Sei]

Godlike:

Lambda Zellweger (WA4) vs Cyril (SO2) - Not fast or durable enough to land a solid hit before Lambda kills him
Endora (OB) vs Riou (S2) - Mmm... don't think I buy Endora dodging on the first turn, and since one Forgiver Sign's enough...

Heavy:

Edea Kramer (FF8) vs Suicune (PKMN) - Accurate ID. The bane of Pokemon. *shakes fist at Edea*

Middle:

Noa (LoL1) vs Dalton (CT) - The existance of Queen Twister makes Dalton sad.
Roan (G2) vs Black Wizard (FF1) - BW against a decent fighter. That will go well.
Sharon (S3) vs Blaziken (PKMN) - Wind of Sleep tips this fight towards her.

Light:

Lucied (WAs) vs Mystina (VP1) - VP mage vs solid Light

[Drifloon]

Ness (EB) vs Elena (G2) - Not buying turn 1 Fiora.
Edea Kramer (FF8) vs Suicune (PKMN) - I don't see justification for voting on Edea's boss form, since it is technically Ultimecia. Thus, I find this match far too subjective to vote on, because FFVIII PCs are just stupid to interpret without going into obscure canon claims.

Middle:

Noa (LoL1) vs Dalton (CT) - Pretty sure she kills him before he can kill her.
Roan (G2) vs Black Wizard (FF1) - ID
Taro (Disgaea 2) vs Eliwood (FE7) - Been a while, but I'm pretty sure Taro was durable and had very good damage output, and Eli doesn't really have anything special to get past that. Also FE loses to Disgaea on the countering front.

[Dhyerwolf]

Shir Gold (PS2) vs Karyl Sheeden (ToD) - So...Karyl's damage is below average (80% of average, so 32% to most people?  I don't use those views, so someone check me on it), barely below average HP (96%), slightly below average defense (95%).  He does have shitloads of TP, though = 731, with healing being 18 and damage being 38.  Was Golden Voice physical?  Shir can toss on an emel for 271 defense to 258 average (106%, with 89% HP).  She does have infinite healing from the unique TruthSleeves, which heal 38% of her HP, and infinite 20 damage Zans from her Wind Scarf.  If you believe in EXA turns, she is 133% speed.  So, the question is...if that 38% healing is anywhere close to Karyl's damage...which it is close, I don't do math for these things, so someone else might want to look into it...Shir infinite heals Karyl out of TP.  Zan is awful damage, but it is infinite, so Shir can spam it with two shields behind her healing.  Rumba...I've never seen hit, though it's stated to be somewhat decent, and Lullaby is stated to be crappy, so Karyl could win through that, but I can't make a note of it since we have no randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled studies on it.  Think it's a bit closer than people have noted previously.  

I think if you see itemcasts as legal, then Karyl is winning on fatal Paralysis. It's low, but Gourry did at least note that it would hit, and if Shir is defending on Zan item casts, her damage is pretty horrid.

[OblivionKnight]

Well, yeah, that is a possibility - just I don't know exactly how good it is (he said...2 out of 14, but unofficially?), and I don't remember seeing it hit when I played...then again, I don't think I used it, so...ToD  memory is faulty >_>  PS2 as far as I know has no consistent status defense check (based on the individual skill being used), so she's at least average at it, and the speed...may help?  It probably is Karyl's match, but closer than I expect - if he's relying on a status, she can use Nazan more to deal damage and force him to heal more often?  Eh.

[Scar]

You guys got to help me out with Lambda. When I played through WA4 and fought him, he went down like a wet paper bag. I never saw any sort of perfect evasion. He was...kind of a sad boss.

[Bardiche]

You guys got to help me out with Lambda. When I played through WA4 and fought him, he went down like a wet paper bag. I never saw any sort of perfect evasion. He was...kind of a sad boss.

I've personally never seen Scythe's gimmick after two playthroughs, so... I'd just go by the stat topic in this case, unless you really feel that his evasion is overrated.

[Dhyerwolf]

You guys got to help me out with Lambda. When I played through WA4 and fought him, he went down like a wet paper bag. I never saw any sort of perfect evasion. He was...kind of a sad boss.

Well, it's not perfect. I believe it's 77% of something like that, and there is a formation or something that gets around it. But the 77% means that 23% of the time, one Raquel physical is eating up most of his HP in a single hit.

[alanna82]

Cloud of Darkness (FF3) vs Nel Zelpher (SO3)


Heavy:

Ness (EB) vs Elena (G2)
Albel Nox (SO3) vs Billy Lee Black (XG)
Cliff Fittir (SO3) Vs Articuno (PKMN)
Edea Kramer (FF8) vs Suicune (PKMN)

Middle:

Roan (G2) vs Black Wizard (FF1)
Taro (Disgaea 2) vs Eliwood (FE7)- LOL Tardo vs Elitard.
Sharon (S3) vs Blaziken (PKMN)

Light:

Lucied (WAs) vs Mystina (VP1)
Shir Gold (PS2) vs Karyl Sheeden (ToD)- Shir would win this if Karyl didnt have healing >_>
Tia (Lufia 2) vs Riddel Viper (CC)

[Dhyerwolf]

Ness (EB) vs Elena (G2) - Not buying turn 1 Fiora.
Edea Kramer (FF8) vs Suicune (PKMN) - I don't see justification for voting on Edea's boss form, since it is technically Ultimecia. Thus, I find this match far too subjective to vote on, because FFVIII PCs are just stupid to interpret without going into obscure canon claims.

Even if Shh! isn't turn 1, what is Ness going to do? Maybe if you say the ID hitting, but given that G3 semi grouped ID and status together, Elena has a really good case for ID immunity anyways. If enough, he either has a single damage source that devours his MP or a bunch of support spells that don't help him at all here.

Edea is controlled by Ultimecia, but is she actually deriving any extra power from it. She was a sorceress to start, so I'd imagine that even if she's under someone's control, that her own power at work anyways.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

G3 isn't G2, and G3 treats status resistance differently from G2 as well (they are centered towards outright immunity rather than scattered resistance levels, for instance. Enemy ID in G2 doesn't really exist, while it's obviously there in G3). The carryover case doesn't really fly that easily here due to a mechanical departure of sorts, and I honestly feel a bit queasy about using that argument when games in a series make a movement like that.

[Dhyerwolf]

G2 doesn't have resistance level, that's G1. Any status resistance in G2 is actually just status immunity. But yeah, I think both the items that gets all statuses in G1 and G3 get ID too (G3 we know, G1 I'm not 100% on though, so I could be wrong there), so it definetely feels like there might be a bit of general consistency regarding that in the series.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

G2 doesn't have resistance level, that's G1.

Huh. I thought that only applied to Elena's final armor - and the status screen indications even seemed to apply multiple levels of resistance in G2. Granted, that probably means I slightly undersold some of G2's equips if that's right.

[Dhyerwolf]

G2 is kind of badly worded that way. Elemental levels of resistances are actually resistance (10% a level). Resistance to a status is actually immunity (While in G1 both actually meant true resistance).

[Pyro]

Godlike:

Cloud of Darkness (FF3) vs Nel Zelpher (SO3)
Lambda Zellweger (WA4) vs Cyril (SO2): Lambda wins out the 'slugfest' here? I guess his evade works, though WoD would probably OHKO him.
Endora (OB) vs Riou (S2): RIOU SMASH RAR.
Rolf Landale (PS2) vs Heat (DDS)

Heavy:

Ness (EB) vs Elena (G2): Sure Dhyer's status hype works for me.
Albel Nox (SO3) vs Billy Lee Black (XG): I don't believe I actually ever used Albel.
Cliff Fittir (SO3) Vs Articuno (PKMN): I think the birdy is good enough for this. Just really good at slugging.
Edea Kramer (FF8) vs Suicune (PKMN)

Middle:

Noa (LoL1) vs Dalton (CT): Front-loaded damage takes out a frail boss.
Roan (G2) vs Black Wizard (FF1): Goes first and 2HKO's? Works.
Taro (Disgaea 2) vs Eliwood (FE7): Mmm... Not sure, but going with the crowd.
Sharon (S3) vs Blaziken (PKMN)

Light:

Lucied (WAs) vs Mystina (VP1): VP mage.
Shir Gold (PS2) vs Karyl Sheeden (ToD)
Tia (Lufia 2) vs Riddel Viper (CC): Tia's speed/Mdef see her through?
Sten (BoF2) vs Yushis (OB): I guess...

[James_xeno]

Another comment on the Elena vs Ness fight.

In addition to Ness's MP/damage issue, Elena's status immunity and Fiora/Shhh! 1-1.5 turn accuracy. Elena's Nightmare Ball does ~1300 damage, plus inflicts sleep at about 85%+. She has enough SP to use it 11 times, (and one last free shot of something) which is like 140% (160% with a Crackling at the end) kill point damage. And even then still has all her MP left for healing/attacking. or Speedy, Cold and Diggin'.

Someone was also asking how long it took before Move/Magic (Fiora/Shhh!) Block wore off. They don't! Even after the battle.