List topic Round 1, Week 3- Muppy and vampire fanboys

[superaielman]

Godlike

Winners:

1. Souji: 15
2. Sephiroth: 14.25
3. Orlandu: 12.75
4. Indalecio: 12.58

Losers:

5. TimeLord: 12.33
6. Ellen: 9.2
7. Ramirez: 8.13
8. Zio: 7.23 (Elfboy tiebreak)

Out:

9. Luca: 7.23
10. Genevieve: 5.8
11. Endora: 5.75
12. Dark Force: 5.41
13. X: 4.89
14. Altima: 4.25
15. Kurando: 3.44
16. Zeromus: 3.18

Heavy

Winners:

1. Pamela: 14.54
2. Fogel: 13.13
3. Artea: 11.62
4. Garan: 11.46

Losers:

5. Scias: 11.136
6. Legretta: 10.81
7. Hrist: 10.45
8. Zero: 9.8

Out:

9. Worker 8: 9.27
10. Shadow: 7.81
11. Fujin: 7.13
12. Zerase: 6.54
13. Odin: 4.4
14. Edgar: 4.06
15. Albel: 2.86
16. Reno: 2.63


Middle

Winners:

1. Flay: 14.63
2. Killer: 14.22
3. Slade: 13.8
4. Maya: 12.86

Losers:

5. Tifa: 9.92
6. Gerik: 8.92
7. Sheena: 8.9
8. Seifer: 7.75

Out:

9. Rauny: 7.71
10. Lockswell: 6.71
11. Bart: 6.62
12. Venusaur: 5.67
13. Alma: 5.5
14. Gadwin: 5.3
15. Pesmerga: 4.8
16. Mark: 1.57

Light

Winners:

1. Gordon: 13.77
2. Melody: 12.9
3. Sten: 11
4. Diego: 10.83

Losers:

5. Aguro: 9
6. Gogo: 8.38
7. Gares: 8.42
8. Garcia: 8.28

Out:

9. Lucied: 8.07
10. Reis: 8
11. Tempest: 7.83
12. Hervey: 7.73
13. Joker: 7.33
14. Anri: 6.44
15. Tai Ho: 4.92
16. Malak: 2.46

Godlike:

Zophar (Lunar:EBC)
Ryu (BoF3)
Belial (WA4)
Isolde (MK)
Avalon (LoL2)
Yunalesca (FFX)
Guv (DQ8)
Lenneth (VPs)
Odd Eye (SF2)
Arc (AtLC)
Psaro/Necrosaro (DQ4)
Jecht (FFX)
Celes (FF6)
Sir Leopold (DQ8)
Lulu (FFX)
Asgard (WA3)

Heavy:


Marcello (DQ8)
Wakka (FFX)
Masaji Kato (SH2)
Rayquaza (PKMN)
Ultros (FF6)
Angela (SD3)
Geshp (SF2)
Rose (LoD)
Articuno (PKMN)
Suicune (PKMN)
Jenova (FF7)
Sync (TotA)
Homard (La Pucelle)
Marsilio (SO2)
Kratos Aurion (ToS)
Roufas (SaGa)


Middle:

Yosuke Hanamura (Pers4)
Mia (FE9)
Odessa Silverberg (S1)
Tengaar (Suikos)
Melbu Frahma (LoD)
Sharon (S3)
Bowman Jean (SO2)
Swampert (PKMN)
Karsh (CC)
Scythe Riebauer (WA4)
Aigis (Pers3)
Keneth (S4)
Don Mole (DQ8)
Sara (BoF1)
Muppy (MK1)
FuSoYa (FF4)

Light:

Luke fon Fabre (TotA)
Oulan (S2)
Dinn (S5)
Tia (Lufia 2)
Fargo (CC)
Yukari Takeba (Persona 3)
Cai (Brig)
Hugh Thompson (PS2)
Tellah (FF4)
Karn (BoF1)
Jane Maxwell (ACF)
Jacques (S3)
Palmer (FF7)
Banon (FF6)
Gepetto (SH2)
Rafa Galthana (FFT)

[superaielman]

Godlike:



1. Zophar- Obvious
2. Ryu3- Proven winner.
3.  Isolde- I got done ranting to Elfboy a few days back about lack of respect, but she just works out too well in the DL.  NE magic OHKO damage is nice.
4. Avalon- He'd be a high godlike with good speed.
5. Belial- Less respect for the HP/damage, but good enough.
*Drop*
6. Psaro- Durable boss with good damage. Leaning no on anything related to C6 for legality, sadly.
7. Lenneth
8. Yunalesca
9. Odd Eye
10. Celes
11. Jecht- Bonus points today for spoiling Souji!!!
12. Arc
13. Asgard
14. Lulu- Definitely consider Yuna's summons in the damage average in some way, which hurts her.
15. Sir Lepold
16. Guv- Blah CT.

This field is a step down from last week.

Heavy:

1. Geshp- Obvious
2. Wakka- Physical spoiling+status. He's had terrible DL luck.
3. Marcello- Very solid, had some bad DL luck.
4. Angela- That heavy title wasn't a fluke, she is good at beating PC's with status.
5. Sync- Annoyingly solid in Heavy.
6. Roufas- Not much respect for Awakening any more, but he's good enough in Heavy.
7. Rayquaza- He's okay.
8. Suicune- Kneejerk.
9. Kato- Respect took a bad beating when I realized just how bad his durability was.
10. Articuno- Kneejerk.
11. Marsilio- Decent fast 2HKO! Just that's it.
12.Rose- Needs more HP badly.  Loses to average with counters, which is very bad.
13. Ultros- Wins a few status wars with Opera house, otherwise bad.
14. Jenova- Final form fails so bad.

Middle:

1. Yosuke- Had a tough downgrade, but I think he's a very solid all around fighter.
2. Bowman- Think the elemental/status blocking works better than Sharon's anti physical stuff and healing, but both are excellent.
3. Sharon- Anti physical tank.
4. Tengaar- Whores effectively with the physical walling and good damage. Proven winner.
5. Swampert- Solid
6. Odessa- Also solid.
7. Karsh- Slower bowman who lacks the status/elemental blocking.
8. Keneth- Solid enough.
9. Melbu- Had some damage somewhere in that giant useless skillset.
10. Don Mole- Status?!
11. FuSoYa- Not hard to OHKO, but god help you if you don't.
12. Sara- Zero respect for the damage or speed, but the HP is decent.
13. Scythe- HP+Last strike.
14. Muppy (out)


Light:

1. Cai (Durability is pretty bad, but functional status immunity+2HKO works)
2. Luke (Think he was above average enough on speed/damage for this)
3. Dinn (Damn solid light)
4. Tia- Hates good fighters, but she's golden otherwise.
5.  Hugh (Solid enoguh at status)
6. Tellah
7.  Fargo (Bad techs hurt some, but he's very good)
8. Oulan (Good slugger)
*drop*
9.  Karn (Fast, fairly damaging. Deserves more DL luck!)
10. Gepetto (Decent damage!)
11. Banon (Infinite healing. Frail, but infinite healing.)
12. Rafa (Durability's just bad and the healing doesn't nearly cover for it. Does some nice spoiling though.)
13. Jacques (Solid but unremarkable. Lack of options puts him below the rest of the field.)
14. Palmer (No, no I don't respect the evade.)

[Dhyerwolf]

14. Lulu- Definitely consider Yuna's summons in the damage average in some way, which hurts her.

Do they matter though? They kind of aren't good at that great at damage relatively (Yes, Anima does 29K. Replacing a party average of 20K. And one of those replaced PCs is Yuna, who is 16K, meaning that endgame average that Anima actually replaced is more like 30K). Durability is nice, but again, it's a replacement for 3 PCs. Better trade against MT, worse against powerful ST. Which is say, scale Yuna's Aeons to some sort of party replacement!

[Monkeyfinger]

Godlike:

Multi-champ power:
1) Zophar (Lunar:EBC)
2) Isolde (MK): Yeah... doing MK2 boss stats made me realize how broken boss timed cards are as a DL trick, especially under my HP views. Grand Gaze is seriously retarded off of that durability/speed, and she gets to use it as part of a triple-act as a limit.
3) Ryu (BoF3): Lost some stock to me when I found out how sketch his claim to MP damage immunity is. Still really good, if you give him a turn without taking advantage of that you're pretty much fucked.

Champ power:
4) Guv (DQ8)
5) Belial (WA4)
6) Lenneth (VPs): Allowing all blocker slots to be filled makes the VP2 form pretty sick.

Mediocre:
7) Psaro/Necrosaro (DQ4)

Bad:
8) Yunalesca (FFX)
9) Avalon (LoL2)
10) Jecht (FFX)
11) Arc (AtLC)
12) Sir Leopold (DQ8)
13) Lulu (FFX)
14) Celes (FF6)

Belongs in heavy:
15) Asgard (WA3)

Heavy:

Belongs in godlike:
1) Sync (TotA)

Very good:
2) Masaji Kato (SH2)
3) Marcello (DQ8)
4) Wakka (FFX)

Pretty good:
5) Homard (La Pucelle)
6) Marsilio (SO2)
7) Kratos Aurion (ToS)
8) Suicune (PKMN)
9) Roufas (SaGa)

Mediocre:
10) Angela (SD3)
11) Rayquaza (PKMN)
12) Articuno (PKMN)

Belongs in middle:
13) Ultros (FF6)
14) Jenova (FF7)


Middle:

Very good:
1) Yosuke Hanamura (Pers4)
2) Mia (FE9)
3) Tengaar (Suikos)
4) Muppy (MK1)
5) Odessa Silverberg (S1)

Pretty good:
6) Karsh (CC)
7) Swampert (PKMN)

Mediocre:
8) Sara (BoF1)
9) Sharon (S3)
10) Scythe Riebauer (WA4)
11) Don Mole (DQ8)

Bad:
12) FuSoYa (FF4)

Light:

1) Luke fon Fabre (TotA)
2) Oulan (S2)
3) Tellah (FF4)
4) Karn (BoF1)
5) Dinn (S5)
6) Gepetto (SH2)
7) Fargo (CC)
8) Cai (Brig)
9) Tia (Lufia 2)
10) Jacques (S3)
11) Rafa Galthana (FFT)
12) Banon (FF6)
13) Palmer (FF7)

[Dhyerwolf]

Godlike:
1. Zophar
2. Ryu 3
3. Belial
4. Isolde- Solid, but less respect for Timed Cards against PCs (focusing issues and such)
5. Yunalesca- Good, but the awesome slugfest bosses should outdo her
6. Guv- Call Team
7. Avalon- Everything but speed!
8. Odd Eye
9. Lenneth
10. Lulu
11. Celes
12. Necrosaro
13. Jecht
14. Arc. Resources are too limited
15. Sir Leopold
16. Asgard

Heavy:

1 Geshp. Smash damage+backup physical+resistances
2 Kato. 2 PC HP to me, so he’s pretty solid
3 Ultros. Smash damage
4 Kratos. Smash damage (Boss form). Up to 4, and we are still in clear Godlike
5 Wakka. Dual spoiling powers
6 Marcello. Solid slugger
7 Jenova. Gut
8 Rayquaza. Gut
9 Angela. Gut
10 Sync. I kind of gutted this
11 Roufas. Healing, some status
12 Articuno. Doesn’t have Suicune Pdur, but instead has 2 turn ID. Infinitely winning combo.
13 Marsilio. Similarly durability to Suicune overall, but less wallable
14 Suicune. Such a step above Rose. But yeah, durable. And…so close to 2HKOs! And is extremely wallable.
15 Rose. Unless I decide on starting SP, Rose is still seriously hampered by that durability and having nothing of note at all to do turn 1.

Someone could probably convince me to flip 7 through maybe 12 around. Solid on the rest.

Middle
1 Sharon. Yeah, now this is being an effectively utility knife Yosuke!
2 Melbu. Killer status+some durability
3 Muppy. Rarely blocked essentially fatal status.
4. Mia. Typicalish Swordmaster game works well.
5. Yosuke. Sure, good number of tricks.
6. Odessa. Weird game.
7. Bowman. Healing+Weird 2HKO spread
8. Tengaar- Damage (Granted, OPB!) and anti physical and limited anti magic
9. Swampert- 2 damage types, accuracy busting. Speed holds him back, and it’s not overly hard to outslug through the accuracy bust because of it! Could be a bit higher.
10. Keneth
11. FuSoYa- 65% durability?
12. Aigis- Not bad, but wants her tricks to be compatible with each other!
13. Scythe- Yeah, given up that turn hurts. People who chip also hurt.
14. Karsh- Slow semi-element 2HKO without any tricks.
15. Sara- Think she may have just taken a big dive to me.
16. Don Mole

Light
1 Hugh. Turn 1 ID (Albeit…barely. Yeah, it’s not Jean level accuracy, but it’s not Light)
2. Jane. Let’s say. Crazy evasion is awesome in Light. Her damage isn’t that far off from a lot of others in this field (Well…from Oulan types at least). She’s 125% speed, and can play a pseudo ST spoiling game. Has something at least to completely wreck healers. Hmm, respect up (Although Shabon still crushes Jane in her sleep!)
3. Tia. Horrid Pdur. Somewhat like Tellah, there’s an element on OHKO or suffer. However…better PDur (And at 51%, feels like there are a number fewer people in Light who are going to OHKO her and Drowsy could help against some ones that are status weak). Eh, gut reaction is that she generally performs better than people who are just kind of averagish. Starting IP…boosts her to 1 or 2 or maybe doesn’t change her position at all!
4. Luke- Average to above average and a tad fast?
5. Banon- Uh…sure. Surprised we don’t have notes on him. Full near infinite healing off solid durability and some evasion. Not a powerhouse attacker, but considering a lot of other people here aren’t much more damaging and are slower and have no healing, this works!
6. Dinn- Slow, but average damage+S5 equips
7. Jacques- Fairly averagish overall
8. Tellah- Gut reaction. OHKO or die generally. I could be overrating his PDur, but he’s kind of a scaling headache anyways.
9. Yukari- Held back by being easy to heal lock by some. Think lower damage might actually foil her compared to Tellah (But again, Pdur unsure with him)
10. Oulan- Concrete durability
11. Karn- Wants more Pdur
12. Cai- Wants more Pdur and his speed to hurt my head less
13. Fargo- Almost averagish speed 3HKO. Just semi spoilable and can’t get the big punch turn 1 if he needs it (So…bites it to the Tia/Banon types). This whole field really close.
14. Rafa- Yeah, don’t think the twins actually have enough chance of hitting themselves for me to respect (Well, what are the chances?)
15. Gepetto- 110% over two turns at 75% Speed. 100% over two turns at 80%. 95% at 85%. Not complete trash in Light, and I could see arguments for him being higher, but yeah.

Really close field overall

[OblivionKnight]

Godlike:

1) Asgard - XF form destroys worlds.
2) Zophar - All arms is evil
3) Avalon - Man...he is a lot better than I think at first glance.  Especially with a form chain to help his durability.
4) Lenneth - RS boss form, at worst.   LennethAll might be better overall, though, which is scary.
5)
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)
11)
12)
13)
14)
15)
16)

Ryu (BoF3)
Belial (WA4)
Isolde (MK)
Yunalesca (FFX)
Guv (DQ8)
Odd Eye (SF2)
Arc (AtLC)
Psaro/Necrosaro (DQ4)
Jecht (FFX)
Celes (FF6)
Sir Leopold (DQ8)
Lulu (FFX)

Heavy:

1)
2)
3)
4)
5)
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)
11)
12)
13)
14)
15)
16)

Marcello (DQ8)
Wakka (FFX)
Masaji Kato (SH2)
Rayquaza (PKMN)
Ultros (FF6)
Angela (SD3)
Geshp (SF2)
Rose (LoD)
Articuno (PKMN)
Suicune (PKMN)
Jenova (FF7)
Sync (TotA)
Homard (La Pucelle)
Marsilio (SO2)
Kratos Aurion (ToS)
Roufas (SaGa)

Middle:

1) Melbu - Not a Middle, with durability and actual damage.  Needs an upgrade bad...although he's funnier down here.
2) Aigis - Godlike.
3) Scythe - Fast, frail, but boss durability is still good enough
4)
5)
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)
11)
12)
13)
14)
15)
16)

Yosuke Hanamura (Pers4)
Mia (FE9)
Odessa Silverberg (S1)
Tengaar (Suikos)
Sharon (S3)
Bowman Jean (SO2)
Swampert (PKMN)
Karsh (CC)
Keneth (S4)
Don Mole (DQ8)
Sara (BoF1)
Muppy (MK1)
FuSoYa (FF4)

Light:

1)
2)
3)
4)
5)
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)
11)
12)
13)
14)
15)
16)

Luke fon Fabre (TotA)
Oulan (S2)
Dinn (S5)
Tia (Lufia 2)
Fargo (CC)
Yukari Takeba (Persona 3)
Cai (Brig)
Hugh Thompson (PS2)
Tellah (FF4)
Karn (BoF1)
Jane Maxwell (ACF)
Jacques (S3)
Palmer (FF7)
Banon (FF6)
Gepetto (SH2)
Rafa Galthana (FFT)

[Yoshiken]

Heavy:

1. Rayquaza (PKMN) - Does get Pokemon buffs, and Dragon Dance is possibly one of the best (GS onwards.) Good damage and decent durability to support it. Only problems are ice and status, and he can even Rest to stall if needed.
2. Wakka (FFX) - Has status (so probably owns half this field) and good accuracy/damage, and... not much else. If he gets a limit, the opponent is completely fucked.
3. Jenova (FF7) - Form-choice really helps her out in giving variety, but no form has anything amazingly special. Decent damage and double/triple-acting is good enough for her.
4. Ultros (FF6) - As above. Form-choice is a bitch, and Ultros does it pretty much just as well. Always hated Jenova-BIRTH more than any Ultros form, though.
5. Articuno (PKMN) - Hates those lightning and fire weaknesses, as well as typical Pokemon status issues. Generally solid, but has way too many problems to be higher.
6. Kratos Aurion (ToS) - Generally average. Physical and magical damage, but nothing special outside of variety.
7. Suicune (PKMN) - Ehh. Not bad, good special, but nothing much else. Doesn't even get Pokemon buffs. ;(
8. Masaji Kato (SH2) - Kato respect is not found. His support is way too frail to even affect battles, assuming the opponent has -any- MT whatsoever, and he's pretty damn frail himself. The damage just isn't enough to counteract that.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Godlike:

1. Zophar (Lunar:EBC): No need to re-order the top of the division. Hax.
2. Ryu (BoF3): More spoilable hax but still hax.
3. Isolde (MK): Pretty solid overall package, sure.
4. Belial (WA4): Owning ST is good.
5. Yunalesca (FFX): Loads of status, durability gives her some decent slugging.
6. Avalon (LoL2): Loads of status and not bad slugging, but the speed hurts.
7. Guv (DQ8): Call Team is reasonably effective, even if it's a complete headache.
8. Lenneth (VPs): This works. Pretty nice stats and so on, but needs more speed or for me to allow multiple blockers.
9. Psaro/Necrosaro (DQ4): DQ4r form? Sure. No C6 hype, but giving him something that isn't complete failure for HP helps him a lot.
10. Odd Eye (SF2): Around here works. Needs more HP.
11. Celes (FF6): Status and some stalling/spoiling.
12. Lulu (FFX): Turn 1 ID and OHKO damage and reasonably hard to kill and that healing trick. Still, too slow to be better.
13. Sir Leopold (DQ8): Has the worst status of the three H/G area bosses, but the best slugging by quite a ways.
14. Jecht (FFX): Incomplete immunities + no respect for damage + bad respect for durability. His status is better than...
15. Asgard (WA3): Turn 2 ID in Godlike and nothing else really... well, durability lets him get it off sometimes. Still, this is a pretty good field.

Middle:

1. Mia (FE9): She doubles and has some evade, though not a huge amount. Vantage may let her sneak the odd win, too. Good in the division.
2. Tengaar (Suikos): Cruel damage and spoils a common damage type. That's badass.
3. Sharon (S3): If I give her Funeral Wind she jumps to #1, but I don't think I do. So she's just tanky, heals, has good equip options, and Wind of Sleep. That works.
4. Odessa Silverberg (S1): Not sure how much credit I give her. Scaling up her MP... hmm. Probably do that. So yeah, High Middle.
5. Sara (BoF1): Immensely tanky and damage which while not amazing is impossible to wall.
6. Scythe Riebauer (WA4): Different than I thought. Last strike sucks, but Auto-Haste gooood, he still kills average before they get a second turn. So he ends up about here.
7. Bowman Jean (SO2): 2HKO and some good equips, but a bit laggy.
8. Swampert (PKMN): Kinda like Karsh with a bit less raw damage but a lot more options.
9. Karsh (CC): Pretty good for CC, but still needs more speed.
10. Keneth (S4): A tankier Tengaar with no Revenge Earth, lower damage, and worse equips.
11. Melbu Frahma (LoD): Decent if his first form isn't OHKOed, but that happens a bit too often. 2HKO + block one of the statuses also works and is even more common.
12. Don Mole (DQ8): Mediocre damage, has some status. I don't really remember him well enough for list purposes.
13. FuSoYa (FF4): Slow/fragile.
14. Muppy (MK1): Slow/undamaging.

[Nephrite]

Godlike:

1. Ryu (BoF3)
2. Yunalesca (FFX)
3. Guv (DQ8)
4. Odd Eye (SF2)
5. Psaro/Necrosaro (DQ4)
6. Zophar (Lunar:EBC) - Fate Storm as ID... sorry, Zophy.
7. Sir Leopold (DQ8)
8. Belial (WA4) - Don't let her 4D Pocket to kill. /shrug
9. Lulu (FFX)
10. Celes (FF6)
11. Lenneth (VPs)
12. Arc (AtLC)
13. Jecht (FFX)


Heavy:

1. Masaji Kato (SH2)
2. Geshp (SF2)
3. Sync (TotA)
4. Marcello (DQ8)
5. Roufas (SaGa)
6. Jenova (FF7)
7. Wakka (FFX)
8. Angela (SD3)
9. Articuno (PKMN)
10. Suicune (PKMN)
11. Rose (LoD)
12. Kratos Aurion (ToS)
13. Rayquaza (PKMN)
14. Marsilio (SO2)
15. Ultros (FF6)


Middle:

1. Yosuke Hanamura (Pers4)
2. Odessa Silverberg (S1)
3. Mia (FE9)
4. Bowman Jean (SO2)
5. Aigis (Pers3)
6. Sharon (S3)
7. Tengaar (Suikos)
8. Sara (BoF1)
9. Melbu Frahma (LoD)
10. Swampert (PKMN)
11. Karsh (CC)
12. Don Mole (DQ8)
13. FuSoYa (FF4)
14. Scythe Riebauer (WA4)



Light:

1. Luke fon Fabre (TotA)
2. Oulan (S2)
3. Yukari Takeba (Persona 3)
4. Tia (Lufia 2)
5. Cai (Brig)
6. Gepetto (SH2)
7. Tellah (FF4)
8. Palmer (FF7)
9. Jacques (S3)
10. Dinn (S5)
11. Fargo (CC)
12. Karn (BoF1)
13. Banon (FF6)
14. Rafa Galthana (FFT)

[Lance]

Godlike
1.) Ryu (BoF3)
2.) Zophar (Lunar:EBC)
3.) Belial (WA4)
4.) Psaro/Necrosaro (DQ4)
5.) Yunalesca (FFX)
6.) Lulu (FFX)
7.) Odd Eye (SF2)
8.) Lenneth (VPs)
9.) Guv (DQ8)
10.) Celes (FF6)
11.) Jecht (FFX)
12.) Asgard (WA3)
13.) Sir Leopold (DQ8)

Heavy
1.) Angela (SD3)
2.) Geshp (SF2)
3.) Wakka (FFX)
4.) Masaji Kato (SH2)
5.) Roufas (SaGa)
6.) Kratos Aurion (ToS)
7.) Suicune (PKMN)
8.) Ultros (FF6)
9.) Articuno (PKMN)
10.) Marcello (DQ8)
11.) Sync (TotA)
12.) Marsilio (SO2)
13.) Jenova (FF7)

Middle
1.) Aigis (Pers3)
2.) Bowman Jean (SO2)
3.) Sharon (S3)
4.) Mia (FE9)
5.) Karsh (CC)
6.) Sara (BoF1)
7.) Keneth (S4)
8.) Tengaar (Suikos)
9.) Scythe Riebauer (WA4)
10.) Don Mole (DQ8)
11.) FuSoYa (FF4)
12.) Odessa Silverberg (S1)

Light
1.) Luke fon Fabre (TotA)
2.) Fargo (CC)
3.) Yukari Takeba (Persona 3)
4.) Tia (Lufia 2)
5.) Oulan (S2)
6.) Jane Maxwell (ACF)
7.) Dinn (S5)
8.) Jacques (S3)
9.) Hugh Thompson (PS2)
10.) Tellah (FF4)
11.) Gepetto (SH2)
12.) Karn (BoF1)
13.) Palmer (FF7)
14.) Banon (FF6)
15.) Rafa Galthana (FFT)

[SnowFire]

Godlike:

1. Zophar (Lunar:EBC)
2. Belial (WA4)
3. Jecht (FFX) - Respect Jecht's HP and damage more than some.  Can actually slug unlike Yunalesca.
4. Lenneth (VPs)
5. Yunalesca (FFX) - Kills PCs well, but don't respect Absorb vs. bosses.
6. Celes (FF6)
7. Psaro/Necrosaro (DQ4)
8. Sir Leopold (DQ8)
9. Lulu (FFX)
10. Asgard (WA3)
11. Guv (DQ8) - No Call Team, no Dragon Soul, so Guv's a Fullhealing Heavy.
[Ryu (BoF3) - I played only a little of BoF3, and earlygame Ryu isn't Godlike.]

Heavy:
1. Sync (TotA) - Played TotA Hard mode.
2. Kratos Aurion (ToS) - His first boss form does skirt the borders of legality, but his second one is more firmly legit.  Gives him versatility, at least, since his PC form is also pretty good.
3. Masaji Kato (SH2) - I let him have the Regalia, meaning that in slugfests his opponents need to waste a turn breaking a piece.  This helps a lot.  And for opponents who can't / don't do that, I let him have his big combo attack, too.  It adds up.
4. Angela (SD3) - Two status whores.  She kills randomly-elementally weak types, and is the faster, because...
5. Wakka (FFX) - ...the FFX AGL average includes Kimahri as below average rather than either not including him or making him perfectly average.  Without Kimahri, Wakka's below average speed.
6. Rose (LoD) - Nice damage, okay speed, ID.
7. Homard (La Pucelle) - One trick but it's a good one.
8. Marcello (DQ8) - Not great in-game but translates well to the DL.
9. Ultros (FF6) - Heck no to Double-Tentacle to one person hype.
10. Marsilio (SO2)
11. Jenova (FF7)

[Dark Holy Elf]

How is double Tentacle different from any other boss double-action? Do you just not allow any ST + ST boss double-actions? (Wouldn't be terribly unreasonable, I guess. Id and Empyrea both want to murder you in your sleep, though.)

Kimahri has average AGL in the topic, just that ends up being below average speed the way FFX works. This seems pretty reasonable if you factor in Kimahri at all. Note that Kimahri's base AGL is lower than most characters' (everyone's except Auron's and Lulu's), too, so arguably the stat topic is overrating him.

[alanna82]

1. Zophar
2. Ryu 3
3. Isolde
(massive drop)
4. Psaro
5. Odd Eye
6. Arc
7. Yunalesca
8. Lulu
9. Lenneth
10. Celes
11. Jecht
12. Sir Leopold
13. Asgard
14. Guv (no call team makes Guv a sad boy)

Heavy:

1. Ultros (get back to Godlike), I totally allow the nasty lethe river form)
2. Geshp (get back to godlike too!)
3. Rayquaza
4. Kratos (boss form)
5. Sync
6. Marcello
7. Roufas
8. Articuno
9. Suicune
10. Homard
11. Wakka
12. Rose
13. Jenova
14. Marisilio (LOL Wiseman not Decus or Cyril or Indelecio in heavy)



Middle:

1. Sharon (tank +wind of Sleep? too good for middle)
2. Mia
3. Tengaar
4. Aigis
5. Odessa
6. Swampert
(big gap)
7. Bowman (has damage at least)
8. Sara (durability)
9. Karsh (decent I guess)
10. Keneth
(lights)
11. Don Mole
12. FuSoYa
13. Muppy

Light:

1. Hugh (accurate instant death in light.)
2. Luke
3. Yukari (would be first if not for her thunder weakness)
4. Oulan
5. Tia (gets close to full healing! Yay for starting with strong)
6. Fargo
7. Jane Maxwell (evasion!)
8. Tellah (great damage, but no durability or MP)
9. Dinn
10. Karn (at least he has speed)
11. Jacques
12. Geppetto
13. Rafa
14. Banon
15. Palmer

[Random Consonant]

Godlike:

1. Zophar (Lunar:EBC)
2. Ryu (BoF3)
3. Psaro/Necrosaro (DQ4)
4. Lenneth (VPs)
5. Odd Eye (SF2)
6. Celes (FF6)
7. Arc (AtLC)

Heavy:

1. Geshp (SF2) - Brutal.
2. Ultros (FF6) - Lete River form is good stuff.  Weaknesses hurt, though.
3. Rayquaza (PKMN) - Gut.
4. Angela (SD3) - Status!
5. Suicune (PKMN) - Gut.
6. Marsilio (SO2) - 2HKO + boss immunities isn't bad.
7. Kratos Aurion (ToS) - His boss forms are really shaky to me, since the first two are essentially plot fights and the third's a duel, so uh... he just has durability/Last Fencer.  Not that that's bad in the division. >_>
8. Articuno (PKMN) - Gut
9. Roufas (SaGa) - Gut.
10. Rose (LoD) - Thinking I allow half-filled SP now.  Still... get some HP.
11. Jenova (FF7) - Sufficient Jenova respect not found.

Middle:

1. Tengaar (Suikos)
2. Odessa Silverberg (S1)
3. Swampert (PKMN)
4. Bowman Jean (SO2)
5. Karsh (CC)
6. Melbu Frahma (LoD)
7. FuSoYa (FF4)

Light:

1. Cai (Brig) - Solid enough, wishes he had better resources, though.
2. Tia (Lufia 2) - IPs are fun.
3. Oulan (S2) - Solid enough tank.
4. Fargo (CC) - Decent CCer.
5. Tellah (FF4) - Don't let him get a turn.
6. Banon (FF6) - Can heal forever and ever.  Just... everything else.
7. Rafa Galthana (FFT) - Failtwin respect not found.
8. Palmer (FF7) - Palmer.

[SnowFire]

How is double Tentacle different from any other boss double-action? Do you just not allow any ST + ST boss double-actions? (Wouldn't be terribly unreasonable, I guess. Id and Empyrea both want to murder you in your sleep, though.)

Kimahri has average AGL in the topic, just that ends up being below average speed the way FFX works. This seems pretty reasonable if you factor in Kimahri at all. Note that Kimahri's base AGL is lower than most characters' (everyone's except Auron's and Lulu's), too, so arguably the stat topic is overrating him.

Sure, I allow double-actions, along with multiple parts and everything.  Correct me if I'm wrong but Tentacle is forced-MT, right?  In a battle that is insta-over if Banon dies?  Therefore, the only way to see double-Tentacle that is single-target is if you've sculpted the battle so that just Banon is alive.  Aside from being super-obscure, no, that's too slim a thread to hang in the DL.  (One thing I'm not inclined to give bosses - though there are exceptions - is focusing hype, especially for games that you rarely see the attack ST because your team is too durable.  This is similar, it requires you to be down to one specific person in order to see the move's full power.)

As for Kimahri..  uh, weird.  I suppose I can see the argument for a *statistically* average Kimahri, and it's obviously a lot easier to calculate, but I still disagree.  I'd rather take Kimahri stats from walking down each path, and average the result together, perhaps with not finishing the very end of each path to reflect that Kimahri gets his own little middle section and thus is a bit behind.  Since such a score would basically be an average of the 6 characters' *effective* speeds (since Rikku-Kimahri & Tidus-Kimahri will apparently be faster than their numerical speeds indicate), Kimahri should still end up with a basically average score - perhaps tilted back a wee bit due to Kim's starting section not having much speed-boosting.

[superaielman]

He can ST Tentacle, but back row does exist.

[Pyro]

If you are not using Back Row there you lose, as I'm pretty sure he just OHKO's Bannon with Tentacle and calls it game.

[Dark Holy Elf]

As for Kimahri..  uh, weird.  I suppose I can see the argument for a *statistically* average Kimahri, and it's obviously a lot easier to calculate, but I still disagree.  I'd rather take Kimahri stats from walking down each path, and average the result together, perhaps with not finishing the very end of each path to reflect that Kimahri gets his own little middle section and thus is a bit behind.  Since such a score would basically be an average of the 6 characters' *effective* speeds (since Rikku-Kimahri & Tidus-Kimahri will apparently be faster than their numerical speeds indicate), Kimahri should still end up with a basically average score - perhaps tilted back a wee bit due to Kim's starting section not having much speed-boosting.

No, such a Kimahri is even slower than the one in the stat topic, because Kimahri's base speed (bear in mind that much of Rikku's good DL speed is from her high base) is lower than average and his own grid has little agility. mc ranted about this once many years ago, fast Kimahri is virtually impossible taken at an equal sphere level to everyone else (whereas Lulu!Kim and Auron!Kim are every bit as slow as the characters he is emulating). It doesn't help that AGL nodes tend to be back-ended, so if you enter Kim into the beginning of a grid he'll be even slower at the time others finish their grid.

Pyro: You can kill him before he Tentacles Banon. Back when I played FF6 I don't think most people realised that Tentacle was row-subject so I remember that being bandied around as the only way to win other than having Banon defend when you think the scripted Banon tentacle is coming.

Snowfire: Oh, fair. For what it's worth, one Tentacle in the double-act is ST, and the other is MT, so respect as you will.

[Clear Tranquil]

Godlike:

1 - Belial (WA4)
2 -Yunalesca (FFX)
3 - Isolde (MK)
4 - Lulu (FFX)
5 - Lenneth (VPs)
6 - Jecht (FFX)
7 -Celes (FF6)
8 - Guv (DQ8)
9 - Sir Leopold (DQ8)
10 - Asgard (WA3)

No Call Team for Guv.

Heavy:


Marcello (DQ8)
1 - Wakka (FFX)
2 - Masaji Kato (SH2)
3 - Marcello (DQ8)
4 - Rose (LoD)
5 - Jenova (FF7)
6 - Angelo (SD3)
7 - Articuno (PKMN)
8 -Ultros (FF6)


Middle:

1 - Yosuke Hanamura (Pers4)
2 - Aigis (Pers3)
3 - Keneth (S4)
4 - FoSoYa (FF4)
5 - Scythe Riebauer (WA4)
6  - Muppy (MK1)
7 - Karsh (CC)
8 - Don Mole (DQ8)
9 - Melbu Frahma (LoD)



Light:

1 - Yukari Takeba (Persona 3)
2 - Gepetto (SH2)
3 - Fargo (CC)
4 - Tia (Lufia 2)
5 - Dinn (S5)
6 - Tellah (FF4)
7 - Banon (FF6)
8 - Palmer (FF7)


 
 

[superaielman]

I need more votes!

[SnowFire]

Dark Holy Elf: ...interesting.  Actually that does kinda square with my experience, I had Rikku-Kim and Rikku was definitely still faster.  (Though, of course, for me, Kim was still on the fast side.)  I guess bases do matter a bunch.

Still pretty inclined to toss Kim out of the damage average (or at least do a painful recalculation) due to the headache on the legality of his damage options, but I'll go with that for him on speed.  So Wakka gets somewhat better again.

[Cmdr_King]

Godlike

1. Belial (WA4)
2. Zophar (Lunar:EBC)
3. Isolde (MK)
4. Ryu (BoF3)
5. Guv (DQ8)
6. Lenneth (VPs)
7. Psaro/Necrosaro (DQ4)
8. Yunalesca (FFX)
9. Celes (FF6)
10. Lulu (FFX)
11. Jecht (FFX)
12. Asgard (WA3)
13. Sir Leopold (DQ8)

Heavy:

1. Ultros (FF6)
2. Marcello (DQ8)
3. Masaji Kato (SH2)
4. Homard (La Pucelle)
5. Rayquaza (PKMN)
6. Wakka (FFX)
7. Sync (TotA)
8. Roufas (SaGa)
9. Marsilio (SO2)
10. Kratos Aurion (ToS)
11. Jenova (FF7)
12. Rose (LoD)
13. Articuno (PKMN)
14. Suicune (PKMN)

Middle:

1.  Scythe Riebauer (WA4)
2. Tengaar (Suikos)
3. Sharon (S3)
4. Yosuke Hanamura (Pers4)
5. Odessa Silverberg (S1)
6. Keneth (S4)
7. Swampert (PKMN)
8. Aigis (Pers3)
9. Mia (FE9)
10. Don Mole (DQ8)
11. Melbu Frahma (LoD)
12. Sara (BoF1)
13. Bowman Jean (SO2)
14. Karsh (CC)
15. FuSoYa (FF4)
16. Muppy (MK1)

Light:

1. Jane Maxwell (ACF)
2. Cai (Brig)
3. Luke fon Fabre (TotA)
4. Oulan (S2)
5. Fargo (CC)
6. Palmer (FF7)
7. Yukari Takeba (Persona 3)
8. Tia (Lufia 2)
9. Jacques (S3)
10. Karn (BoF1)
11. Dinn (S5)
12. Banon (FF6)
13. Rafa Galthana (FFT)
14. Tellah (FF4)
15. Gepetto (SH2)

[Taishyr]

Voting. Through migraine, which means that a few choices may be questionable. But.Godlike:

---Champs---
1: Ryu (BoF3) - Yeah, sure. Stop him getting a turn or he kinda stomps you.
2: Isolde (MK) - Fairly excellent boss - remix of Fou-Lu, kinda (high defenses, detests ITD, giving her turns is a really bad idea).
---Mid/High Godlike---
3: Avalon (LoL2) - I... think. Durable, resistant, competent damage/speed. Lesser Isolde/Fou-Lu, has some status options to aid him IIRC. This works.
4: Belial (WA4) - 4D Pocket as ID, but... I very much respect the durability under Distortion, and the damage adds up fast. Have MT or lose.
5: Lenneth (VPs) - VP1 only. Massive damage! Average speed. Has some status blockers! But can't cover everything.
6: Zophar (Lunar:EBC) - Durability respect: not found. Speed respect: barely found. Can mess PCs up pretty badly, but anyone who can get a word in edgewise and use a strong MT attack reduces his options to a very sad selection, and I still don't know where I stand on his Fate Storm re: ID or no. Regardless, another "bring either solid MT or fast PCHP damage" dueler, meaning he can easily scrap wins in the division.
7: Odd Eye (SF2) - Pretty competent! Good damage and speed, some durability, but one-dimensional and not at good at it as Lenneth.
---Low/Mid Godlike---
8: Yunalesca (FFX) - For now, mainly because fuck if I know how I view Absorb working on bosses. Nasty as hell against PCs, has issues against bosses at least for now but she could jump if I decided to change views.
9: Lulu (FFX) - Good at spoiling. Very good. But has issues with ITE physicals or ITD magic, and the speed sinks a fair few fights she could win otherwise.
10: Psaro/Necrosaro (DQ4) - Works? Form buffering is kinda nasty but the speed/damage combo isn't there.
11: Celes (FF6) - Needs too many turns to be efficient in Godlike, but is way too nasty for Heavy.
---Borderline or Heavy---
12: Sir Leopold (DQ8) - Right on the edge, but I'm not sure where I see my crit respect for him.
13: Jecht (FFX) - Durability respect not found. Speed respect not really found. Probably means I should play FFX again, but not for a little while (unless I can get International up and running).
14: Guv (DQ8) - No Call Team, but Dragon Soul allowed for now. Still not competitive in this division, but a solid 2HKO and a cheap fullheal sells him in Heavy.


Arc (AtLC) - AtL1 Arc = not willing to vote on him in Godlike.

Heavy:


1: Marcello (DQ8) - Slightly better than Geshp, I kneejerk?
2: Geshp (SF2) - Yeah. Pretty much a slugger with status immunity.
3: Wakka (FFX) - Status! FFX equips! If he gets a limit you fall over, and he can get it -fast- thanks to status. Doesn't like bosses so much, but.
4: Angela (SD3) - Status + solid damage. The status clears PCs, the damage lets her hold her own against Heavy bosses.
5: Rayquaza (PKMN) - Dragon Dance. Damage. Dragon resists help. Spoilable, but is tough to beat slugging.
6: Masaji Kato (SH2) - Nnnnggh wishes I could justify allowing his parts. Status whore without them, IIRC.
7: Articuno (PKMN) - Turn 2 perfect ID, solid offense off good speed. This works.
---Drop---
8: Rose (LoD) - I... think? I don't quite know, but gut says worse Articuno in that she gets the turn 2 ID to me and not much else. I should replay LoD but blah.
9: Roufas (SaGa) - Mmm.
10: Suicune (PKMN) - Wants that 2HKO. Solid set anyway and can easily get wins, this is a great Heavy pool.
11: Marsilio (SO2) - Eh.
12: Jenova (FF7) - Actually a decent Heavy! but not in this field. Wishes I respected the durability more.
13: Ultros (FF6) - No durability. Status and pretty decent damage, but... less and less ATB speed respect leans me away from any higher. Fast enough to at least beat some to the punch with status, merits Heavy with it.


Middle:

---Champ Powered---
1) Muppy (MK1) - Change! + can kill any formation of Punies he makes. Yep. Immune Transform, Eject, or all non-ID status in your game, or have either enough damage or ID to kill turn 1.
2) Sharon (S3) - Very dangerous.
3) Sara (BoF1) - Tank from hell, spoils Muppy bad which amuses me, fails incredibly against healers. Heh.
4) Keneth (S4) - Suikotactics form. Slow first turn, but he's evasive and tossing up Lightning panels gives him pretty brutal stalling game, giving him time to beat someone down or go for the turn 2/3 ID.
5) Aigis (Pers3) - ...when I put her -this- low, the field is insane. Okay. Great damage output (P3FES, so yes she uses her skills in Orgia Mode), can go for a stalling game or damage game both rather easily. Just doesn't like lightning ever.
6) Odessa Silverberg (S1) - ... and when she's here... Excellent all-around.
7) Yosuke Hanamura (Pers4) - AND THE UPGRADE WAS JUSTIFIED. Holy crap this Middle. Uh, evasion, damage, tricks. Really, way too much for Middle.
8) Bowman Jean (SO2) - Elemental spoiling! Damage! Healing! ...Wow, this field!
---Middles---
9) Swampert (PKMN) - See Dhyer. Well suited to Middle.
10) Don Mole (DQ8) - See NEB. Also a decent Middle, doesn't like me too much but hey.
11) Karsh (CC) - Has damage! Uh. That's it, really. Move along.
---Drop---
12) Scythe Riebauer (WA4) - Dies to a sneeze, evasion doesn't save him. Scary if he gets turns, though! uh. Well, might beat Muppy? Ma...y...be?
13) FuSoYa (FF4) - Dies to a sneeze, unlike Scythe has nothing to save the durability and not enough speed to get his tricks off usually. This being said, if you're a PC and you can't kill him in time? Byeeeee~

Melbu Frahma (LoD) - I think I'm better off -not- trying to remember LoD plot thanks.
Tengaar (Suikos) - Eh. S1 form only, will abstain here.


Light: Don't care to comment here much.

1) Karn (BoF1)
2) Tia (Lufia 2)
3) Gepetto (SH2)
4) Yukari Takeba (Persona 3) - Healing game from hell. Just uh hates lightning.
5) Tellah (FF4) - FuSoYa, except worse, but he's in Light. So eh.
6) Jacques (S3)
7) Fargo (CC)
8) Banon (FF6)
9) Rafa Galthana (FFT)
10) Palmer (FF7)

[DjinnAndTonic]

Godlike:

1 Zophar (Lunar:EBC)
2 Ryu (BoF3)
3 Isolde (MK)
4 Belial (WA4) - PC slayer of doom.
5 Lenneth (VPs) - VP2 form spoils status and stalls forever, VP1 form has smash. Really good stuff.
6 Necrosaro (DQ4) - That's a lot of HP buffering.
7 Yunalesca (FFX) - Sure. I respect her game.
8 Guv (DQ8) - Call Team and Dragon Soul. What.
9 Celes (FF6) - Allow pre-battle Vanish. Spoils even more now.
10 Jecht (FFX) - Multi-part boss with good durability, though not great against other bosses.
11 Odd Eye (SF2) - Durable and fast.
12 Arc (AtLC) - Resource issues, but pretty good options.
13 Lulu (FFX) - Evasion whore... but that speed!
14 Asgard (WA3) - Heavy.

Heavy:

1 Kratos Aurion (ToS) - Double damage vs. Humans is pretty broken in Heavy. Some backup tricks, too. ARPG speed respect varies, but I'd see him as a definite above-average speed with physicals Godlike.
2 Masaji Kato (SH2) - Closer to Godlike than Heavy.
3 Sync (TotA) - Good limit boss.
4 Wakka (FFX) - Status whore, but damn good at it.
5 Angela (SD3) - Status whore.
6 Geshp (SF2) - About here.
7 Homard (LPT) - Good smash!
8 Roufas (SaGaF) - SaGa skillsets are pretty deadly. Roufas has access to 3 of them + really good base stats
9 Ultros (FF6) - Uncle Ulty smash.
10 Rose (LoD) - Starting SP. ID.
11 Rayquaza (PKMN) - Pokemon w/ elemental weaknesses go here.
12 Articuno (PKMN)
13 Suicune (PKMN)
14 Jenova (FF7) - LOL.


Middle:

1 Mia (FE9) - Too good for Middle
2 Yosuke Hanamura (Pers4) - Too good for Middle
3 Sharon (S3) - Really good in Middle.
4 Scythe Riebauer (WA4) - Spoils healers well in Middle. Yeah.
5 Bowman Jean (SO2) - ARPG speed + SO2 equips + Smash
6 Tengaar (Suikos) - Good middle.
7 Aigis (P3) - About here.
8 Swampert (PKMN) - Elemental weakness not good.
9 Karsh (CC) - Same for you.
10 Melbu Frahma (LoD)
11 Odessa (S1)
12 Keneth (S4)
13 FuSoYa (FF4)

Light:

1 Hugh Thompson (PS2) - ID whore in Light...
2 Fargo (CC) - Only character who can steal the Elemental Plates. His choice of elemental immunity is awesome.
3 Luke fon Fabre (TotA) - ARPG speed respect, solid durability, some elemental options, Jewel of Lorelei
4 Tia (Lufia2) - Starting IP too!
5 Yukari Takeba (P3) - Good, but that elemental weakness...
6 Cai (Brig) - Most fun Brig duelist?
7 Jane Maxwell (ACF) - About here.
8 Dinn(S5) - Here be suikoden
9 Jacques (S3)
10 Oulan (S2)
11 Tellah (FF4) - OHKO-bait, even in Light. Sad.
12 Banon (FF6) - FF thinks old man can't handle pain. They are wrong.
13 Gepetto (SH2) - SH too!
14 Rafa Galthana (FFT) - Live up to your plot-hype.
15 Palmer (FF7) - Loses to Jogurt?!

[Clear Tranquil]

Right ... Keneth has a ST form >.>

Fixxed~