Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 27

[DjinnAndTonic]

Neph passes. One of the Yuris should have revival by now. Two revivers > ST floor.

Uno and Gate fails. Ditto homogenizes their teams and these floors manhandle that.

Djinn passes. Snowfire's explanation works for me. Cool, no work involved.

[Taishyr]

Yeah, convinced myself on Gate and Neph. Those two pass.

Seriously need to look over Djinn's fights.

Uno... Bartz is actually the only reviver, isn't he? I... don't see him managing to get through all of either side of the fights when Bartz can just be beelined and it comes down to Fogel attempting to solo (Ditto doesn't copy KO'd foes). The full-heal gives him a shot but I don't buy it. Unless I miss something, fail to Uno.

[Clear Tranquil]

Peppita has healing by this point Tai and she also has Berserk. This means she's chaining eight dances of any type into themselves or each other (dances have low fury costs like Sidekick - especially with Berserk where they are extremely cheap >.>), three Panic/Power/Healing Dances into whatever of which Frozen Daggers is an option or a full chain of five or six Frozen Dagger uses which is up to twenty or twenty four hits with each one having the chance to freeze <.< She also has some decent MP damage options kicking around through Power Dance combos - not her big cannon with Faerie Friend yet true but Charge, Magic Hook and Instanto Blast all have added MP damage (and considering Instanto Blast's HP damage fails forever and ever MP sniping is what it's used for in game - it also gains "splash" damage at L4 and she's had it since F2 ... ) and she could set Critical Hit MP as support for a chance of boosting that too. Panic Dance's chaos also causes MP damage not just HP (HP/MP% damage, enemy cannot act, enemies actually die from said HP/MP% draining if kept chaosed - yeah SO3 confusion kills >.>)

Of course the healing might not be very good considering she just got it but it gets there for main game HPs around L5 ... and hmmm. They level up very quickly from L1 to L3 (fourteen or so uses to L2, etc) and then take a bit longer to L4-5 (L5 184 mastery total) I guess if you're not buying her status you could just have her do nothing but rapidly chain level Healing Dance this floor <.< This is really shaky though but if you seriously don't think Uno status whores out these floors with a combo of Bartz/Peppita (edit *+* Aeris)  it's an option at least. Bartz can just concentrate healz/supports, etc (Haste, Regen, Dragon Shield, Elemental Power, Safe, Float, Split Shell, Mighty Guard, White Wind and whatever else) as well then I think~

There's also other funky stuff in there like level increasing though I'm not sure how that works/would work on this team >.> He also has Magic Hammer and other MP hitting stuff to add to Peppita's options ...

Aeris also has revival with Pulse of Life if she's kept round long enough and you buy her as having that yet ...  or wait Seal Evil for status whoring I nearly forgot about that >.> There's just so much status on this team ... jesus. I know Aeris is a limiter and all but yeah that's why you don't want to let her stick around too long and Bartz and Peppita to an extent could support her if they don't die straight away <.< Too many targets I think. I wasn't even considering Aerith beyond healz before but yeah ...

Seriously though I think the only way this team might lose is if Ditto turns the entire lot of them into Fogels which is what I think Djinn meant >.>

As for me I think I'm goign to Hatbot Ditto from now on, that's what I do in RPGmon to decide things for fairness and it makes things interesting at least <.<

[Taishyr]

Enough people on the enemy side give status attempts fits, and Bartz is durable but not terribly so. I'm not convinced that the healing is enough to offset, honestly, but I'd need to check and see how much of the offense through the entire thing is MT.

And late, but to Djinn: I have problems with the "Ditto homogenizes" concept. MT sealstone makes the targeting MT, but not the effect; in almost all cases target and effect are the same thing, but in this case the target is someone else but the effect is solely on Ditto. Thusly I'd find it fair to say that Ditto is a homogenized clone thingy, but I can't see the effect being MT'd to transform everyone else - the stone solely changes targets. To combine this is... eeeeh. I'm blanking on other examples where a target and an effect are so clearly differentiated in a RPG proper so as to elaborate, but.

(Example removed because it was, on later thought, irrelevant.)

[Clear Tranquil]

Yeah >.>

That's what I originally thought on the Ditto thing, it turns into some hybrid clone thingy (let's just say it still *looks* like Ditto for sanity's sake but with a mish mash of other peeps skill sets <.<) Either that or Hatbot >.>

Hmmmmmm ... mind explaining your reasoning on the status thing? They have to block MT/AoE chaos, ST Frozen Daggers (I dunno how they block that one at all really I only allow freeze specific blockers to catch 'em, nothing else much like I wouldn't allow say Peppita's anti paralysis Amulet to stop Rikku's Stop) and Peppita's (admittedly rather unstable) straight ID from Kaboom, Toad, Old, Instant Death, Blind, (MT) Berserk, Poison, Charm, Mini, Sleep, Paralyse, level halfing, Sap from Bartz and possibly MT Stop and Silence from Aeris as well >.> If Peppita manages to chaos more than one target that'd definitely manage to give Uno an edge or if she freezes them they die (shatter kill), Bartz might get another one and Uno's Fogel handles frail status curers if they weren't targetted in the first place ... I mean I can see how they might be able to block one or two of these statuses with accessories but ... all of 'em? >.>

Of course I know nothing about the FFT fight except Pikachu dies so that might be the major road block I'm not seeing~

Edit:

I'm not convinced that the healing is enough to offset, honestly, but I'd need to check and see how much of the offense through the entire thing is MT.

... it ... might be. Bartz has White Wind for MT *doesn't know how good FF5's WW is in practice*  and Aerith has Cure 2, possibly Regen as well as MT healing and possible revival with her limits but the main thing I was thinking of was Dragon Power which halves enemy physical and magical offence which could make the healing go further ...

[Taishyr]

Bartz is dying or being locked to resurrection ASAP and his status is mostly if not entirely ST. If Peppita goes for purely status I'm not sure she'd be at all useful against the multiple bosses on the floor, and Aeris is limit. Really, the only person available for status is Peppita, and she has to either choose status wisely or be limited to pretty much status only.

For example, fight 2: Yuna/Flik/Georg kill Bartz before he blinks, Fogel can only eliminate one. Peppita can status one of the three (though if S5 has Yellow Scarfs Georg shakes his head) but she's average speed and can't stop the rush.

If DL Legal Rikku means "common items" the entire team falls there, as a side note; Fogel kills Rikku but Yuna revives and Flik/Georg kill people during the warring over Rikku. If Rikku's ever left to get a turn, bam, statues.

And the next fight, even presuming only Bartz falls fight 2, has five people, four of whom are dangerous (Zeakden Algus scaled might be kinda semi frustrating to kill, but that's giving him a lot of credit). This being said, Wiegraf gives some fits, Velius needs to die fast or Fogel gets eliminated to status (and I don't buy a Fogel OHKO, though it's close), Pikachu can just toss a Paralyze at Aeris or Thunder someone... yeah. I have issues seeing them pass the first three fights, especially since I didn't factor the first fight in at all, in which Lucia/Valvalis may be enough to disable or kill Bartz, creating major issues fight 2 where the non-Fogels get picked off and weaken him for the final fight. Yeah, definite fail to Uno's team, looking at it. Really needed another reviver by this point.

[Unoriginal]

Me, Gate, and Djinn pass, several ugly fights for the teams, but should be able to squeak through.  Abstain on Neph.

[Talaysen]

Enough people on the enemy side give status attempts fits, and Bartz is durable but not terribly so. I'm not convinced that the healing is enough to offset, honestly, but I'd need to check and see how much of the offense through the entire thing is MT.

And late, but to Djinn: I have problems with the "Ditto homogenizes" concept. MT sealstone makes the targeting MT, but not the effect; in almost all cases target and effect are the same thing, but in this case the target is someone else but the effect is solely on Ditto. Thusly I'd find it fair to say that Ditto is a homogenized clone thingy, but I can't see the effect being MT'd to transform everyone else - the stone solely changes targets. To combine this is... eeeeh. I'm blanking on other examples where a target and an effect are so clearly differentiated in a RPG proper so as to elaborate, but.

(Example removed because it was, on later thought, irrelevant.)

Parasitic healing.  Orlandu targets an enemy with Dark Sword, and the effect is he gains HP.  Under the MT stone, he would target all enemies, but only he would gain HP.

[Taishyr]

Thank you. Yeah, that works well. Targeting hits all enemies, but the parasitic healing effect would only help himself.

[Clear Tranquil]

*nods @ Tai*

Yeah Rikku with common items is a whole different kettle of fish >.> I usually allow her them in list/etc but yeah I thought by "DL legal" Neph was clearly defining her as such i.e speeds + Al Bhed potions <.< Then again if I extend my usual generosity to Rikku Peppita also has a case for "extras" that I haven't really been allowing her in the DL/dungeon (initiative dances ala in game - their effects start to take place right off the bat unlike say Healing/Power Up which have casting times and offensive moves with status that have start up times, with Panic Dance the chaos starts right away on susceptible enemies, range advantage with Frozen Daggers/etc, counters and so on) I dunno if any of that would help her vs Rikku with items anyway though >.> I know you're one of the few people apart from myself that respect counters though. Since Pep's can also cause chaos is it possible she might be able to hang on vs base physicals from peeps until the full heal? Remember if you do allow counters she can chain into dances for an extended invincibility window from her minor one and then from there from the dance into a battle skill. Of course being so good she just makes herself a target to what can deal with her (magic) Blah. Yeah at the end of the day this might just come down to a Godlike (Rikku) vs a Heavy =( I wish I really knew Bartz and Fogel so I could contribute more to this discussion but I really only know Peppita and Aeris so yeah.

Also yeah the CP issue thing, I've come up with a guideline in the brainstorming topic for the usage of those for future references if you're interested though =)

Gate and Djinn also pass~

[Dhyerwolf]

The one I have with Ditto...half transforming into everyone is that its makes it's stats a mess. I guess the skillsets...either gains half of them, or all skills have half effects.