Author Topic: <Untitled IAQ Project>: Round 2: A quip would be clever here, wouldn't it?  (Read 17365 times)

AndrewRogue

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Discussion is available in: #DLIAQ

Seriously.

Anyhow. Welcome to Round 2 of the IAQ. In Round 1, we came up with a loose battle system after a great deal of trial and error. We're now going to do a complete 180 on the subject matter, cast stats to the wind and talk about one of my favorite chunks: story related stuff! A pox on anyone who questions the importance of this! A pox! More seriously, in this round, we're going to focus in on WORLD BUILDING, PLOT SKELETONS and, tangentially, CHARACTERS. Try to keep the discussion focused in on these subjects. If you want to tangent to something else (mechanics, etc), please make sure it is directly connected to the matter at hand. And please, avoid idea dumping. It was something that got a lot of complaints. If you're going to post large masses of text at once, keep them focused. Thanks. <3

Anyhow, let us get this going. I had a setting (and, vaguely related, a plot) pitch. This is an idea I have for a novel, but I'm willing to donate since that project is on hold for the moment anyway. Just keep in mind I ask that no one steal it and call it their own. >_>

Gonna try to do this in brief and crunchy form since I'm tired and it could be rejected out and out anyway. I'll gladly expand on anything if people are interested.

The setting hinges on the existence of a dual part magic system referred to as Resonance and Dissonance. Both are the arts and manipulating the Flow of the world around you (all things being formed of the Flow), a gift that manifests itself as a sort of synesthetic sixth sense (you can perceive the Flow through one of your other five senses). Depending on your character, you'll naturally find a preference for one style. What you can do with both styles of magic is also largely dependent on you, since they are direct manifestations of your will and desire.

Dissonance, the more powerful magic, is the power to enforce your will upon reality. You can cause the world to do unnatural things by altering the Flow around you: you can summon flame out of nothing, you can make a whole field of crops grow within hours, you can cause the earth to rise up and transform into metals, etc. Its pretty powerful stuff. Unfortunately, it also comes at a major price. The alteration of the Flow tends to leave it unstable, creating an effect known as the Disquiet. Which we'll get to.

Resonance, the weaker magic, is the power to supplement the world around you by strengthening the Flow around you: you can strengthen an allies muscles and lend them more endurance, you can supplement a craft to make superior goods, etc. You, essentially, make an object MORE what it is. It is much more subtle than Dissonance and more reliant on outside factors.

To put it in direct comparison: A practitioner in Dissonance could cause an entire acre of land to grow wildly overnight, while a practitioner of Resonance could only cause the plants to grow a little faster, but they'd be the most beautiful, hardy and delicious versions of themselves ever.

The Disquiet is a bad thing. A very bad thing. The manipulation of the Flow by a practitioner of Dissonance causes it to become unstable. While odd uses here and there won't cause any real damage, repeated and/or major uses in area start to really make things go to hell. It starts out as a simple, pervasive sense of unease. As it progresses, the land, air and creatures themselves become poisoned. Just walking through an area of severely Disquieted land is enough to drive a weak willed individual mad... provided they aren't killed by some mutant abomination or some dark, spiritual entity. Worse yet, the effect of Disquieting is permanent. It can be mitigated somewhat by Dissonant practitioners (it is fully possible for a skilled individual to continue to use Disquieted land).

Functionally, there is a third type of magic called Quieting, but that is secret lost to time and such. No relevance to anything at all. No sir.

With me still? Goodie.

So, to sum up the world history fast. Long time ago the land was a single continent. The first man discovered magic and became a god. The people dubbed him their Great Lord and became dependent on him. This upset the Great Lord, who did not wish this burden upon him, so he waged war on humanity. Forced to learn, humanity fought back and learned a magic of their own. In the final battle, the continent was sundered and split into the tons of islands it is now.

So, we now have isolated tribes of people. The people who discovered Dissonance became important as it was discovered that, with their gifts, they were not only dangerous warriors but, more importantly, they were natural resource wells. Depending on their talent and inclinations, skilled practitioners could cause the ground to sprout metals they needed or grow all the crops that the tribe would need for weeks in a day, etc.

Eventually, a great warrior and champion rose up and started gathering together tribes. Eventually, as his forces grew, so too did his conquests until the majority of the world fell under his purview (think Rome). The practitioners of Dissonance who could create natural resources/etc were elevated in society (the gift, especially to that degree, is uncommon and valuable). Its potential as a warfare tool was also discovered in this time frame. (It can also be said Resonance was found in this time, but Resonance is for artists and wusses, so who cares). Unfortunately, it was also discovered, due to the establishment of plantations for the Dissonant crops and mines and the discovery of dissonant healing, that the Disquiet existed. Whoops? Measures began to be taken at this point (Dissonant plantations became government regulated and tracked, measures were taken to limit the impact, etc).

Time came, the kingdom declined and started to disintegrate with the nobility (military high ups and Dissonance practitioners/civillian authorities) barely holding it together. The conditions of the Dissonant plantations grew worse as well, with the workers' conditions being understandably bad. On the whole, they were pretty much a step above slaves. Add in the fact that the damage of the Disquiet (especialy with limited land space over a bunch of small islands, etc), and people began to question the wisdom of their current direction. This dissatisfaction finally manifested fully in the rebellion of the Guardians (a specially trained subset of warriors who defended the plantation workers and neighboring areas from the Disquiet and its  many dangers).

The Guardians began a campaign of guerilla warfare against the government, focusing on the assassination of plantation leaders and such. This is a fairly long ordeal (seven-ish years) and causes a lot of issues (the collapse of plantations, which causes already Disquieted areas to get worse, food shortages, etc. Eventually the Guardians are driven underground and the rebellion "quelled", the military leadership has seized governmental control and gone with stricter restrictions on Dissonant practitioners (to keep them sage/utilize them/abuse them). The Guardians have all but disappeared, with the few who remained loyal (or rather, did not join the rebellion) being relatively maligned symbols of those who did defect.

And man. This was supposed to be short. I think that gets the full gist across. All my current plotting picks up at the end there, but functionally, the world concept on the whole could be used with the game picking at any number of places along the timeline, although obviously where I was prepping my novel idea is the most interesting because, well, I planned for story there.

To ACTUALLY BE SHORT THIS TIME, the plot concept is roughly something like this.

Noemi, a recently graduated practitioner of Dissonance is interested in researching the Disquiet, believing that there is a secret to mitigating or even reversing its effects, which would be MUCH wiser than either thee plan to end all use of it (for the natural repercussions of going from massive production to... not) or just keep using it (which will eventually over poison the world, no doubt). Obviously, there are people against this, bad people wanting to exploit her findings, the threat of the rebellion renewing and, of course, the trip will eventually take her (and friends) to the Great Lord's Throne... There are a few characters and plot stuffs more to be explained obviously, but I think this suffices for a short (overly long) pitch, eh?

Questions, comments, thoughts, etc? Interested in using it, or shall I file it back away and actually start working on the associated novel?
« Last Edit: January 22, 2010, 04:12:06 AM by AndrewRogue »

Cmdr_King

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Short version, as Andy's sanity/comprehension check-
1. A Rome-like empire encompassing vast island chains is fraying at the seams, with nobles, a military dictatorship, and the remnants a peasant army all tugging at the treads.
2. Magic is, as far as most know, divided into Gross, miracle-tastic spells which have a lasting negative effect on the fabric of reality, and Natural, hippy-tastic stuff.
3. God exists, and he doesn't think people have any business depending on him to solve their problems.

All this accurate?
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DjinnAndTonic

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Hmm... I like it. Has the potential to be environmentally preachy, though.

...may not be a bad thing if both sides of the arguments are treated fairly and the people that are -for- keeping Dissonance-assisted production around aren't just greedy bastards (but perhaps more like influential people whose hometowns would starve if the production suddenly stopped).

Really doesn't fit with my idea of the mechanics so far, but I like the concept so far and I'd support some version of this. It's unfortunate how much of the world-building is tied up with the magic system because that makes the magic system a lot less inflexible in mechanics terms.

Not sure what the direction you wanted to take the 'solution', but I would propose that there are other styles of magic/alchemy/technology/whatever in the world than just Dissonance, Resonance, and Quieting that work outside their rules to affect the Flow. Perhaps another culture on the planet (or another planet/dimension, not quite sure if that's an option) has been utilizing the Flow entirely differently for a long time and one of our other parties focus on this style of magic? (Just to allow for a little bit more options in mechanics.)

Bardiche

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file it back away and actually start working on the associated novel?

I'd piratebuy that actually.

Looks interesting so far. A good setup should be strong enough to make a good story.

Cmdr_King

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Actually, I think that as a tie-in at the character design/gameplay level, this is pretty workable.  Because manipulation of Flow is tied into to the senses, the simple solution is, of course, to (whether explicitly in plot terms or merely at the design level) create different 'schools' of usage dependant upon which sense the user is most comfortable with/uses, depending on whether we want to be restrictive in the ability to switch how one sense or not.

Since we're looking at 3 parties, having one from whatever exists outside the empire seems like something we'll at least look at.  If we wanted to have alternative means of manipulating Flow, or even just schools which were never discovered within the empire, that'd be an easy association.
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Anthony Edward Stark

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To use a HoMM parallel, in the newer games there are six factions- one for the five schools of magic and "might," which sits at a neutral place in the circle of alliances that the other factions have drawn up. Perhaps there could also be a group of people who are believers in what they call "Natural Law." Rather than doing things through magical means, they would apply large amounts of directed manpower (think classical construction projects) to make their shit happen. They would make up the "barbarian" tribes outside the Empire, which isn't to say they'd necessarily be bloodthirsty Orcs, but they would be distinctly different from the Empire.

Excal

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Hmm, I definately like this.  And the fact that at least one party would be starting off by looking for a way to fix the bad side effects of dissonance so that they can keep on using it means it can't get too preachy so long as that's a viable goal.  Quietus not being an available magic, or being something that's a mid-late game plot magic sounds like the way to go with that, which means that Dissonance, Resonance, and Martial all sound like reasonable ways to go when looking at power sources, and the added wrinkle of being tied to particular senses means that you have, oh...  two or three basic divisions, and then five within that for 10-15 different 'sources' to design characters with.  Just within the basic setup.

No issues with the inflexability since this setup has a very nice flavour explaination for what the characters are able to do, as well as what else is going on, and will provide a nice guide for design decisions to follow.  It even gives lots of potential for parties (Noemi, Imperial, Guardian, Barbarian just being the easy to spot ones, depending on where we want to focus).

I'd say more, but now that I've looked at the basic concept, I want some time to let it sink in and play around with it before making more suggestions.

dude789

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I also agree with everyone who said that they liked it. Also the dissonance/ressonance system seems like it would lend itself to a battle system with combination attacks if we still wanted to include it. (Dissonance user makes a fireball and ressonance user makes it into a massive inferno / an archer shoots a few arrows into the air and ressonance users turns it into a deadly rain of arrows.)

Magic Fanatic

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I also agree with everyone who said that they liked it. Also the dissonance/ressonance system seems like it would lend itself to a battle system with combination attacks if we still wanted to include it. (Dissonance user makes a fireball and ressonance user makes it into a massive inferno / an archer shoots a few arrows into the air and ressonance users turns it into a deadly rain of arrows.)

I know I shouldn't be nitpicking, but I think the point of dissonance and resonance might be missed here.  If anything, Dissonance can be considered the direct distortion of reality/Flow, while Resonance is the magnification of natural law.

In fact, both would have their considerations in healing, as well.  Dissonance is more of an instant effect, so its use could conceivably be to save a life on the brink of death by sealing up wounds on a body/instantly destroying a fatal disease.  The downside is that scarring may be restrictive to those who were healed this way, or coming out with a FAR weaker immune system.  Resonance, however, would just improve the quality and power of natural regeneration, as well as improving the state of a target's immune system, making them stronger within the boundaries of natural law.  The downside to that, however, may that the improved regeneration and stronger immune system may not actually gain power and/or take effect fast enough to save someone's life.

If anything, we should probably work on the world building before we start organizing the bones of our plot skeleton - sure, we need to know the shape of the bones to make the frame, but we need the frame to organize those bones in.

So, first off, how should the world look (including the explained bones for plot):

A.  Two or three major continents, with a few islands off the shore here and there.

B.  Land masses that are about as big as Australia is to the rest of the world, and scatter them about.

C.  Tons and tons and TONS of smaller islands, where one island could hold, say, three New York Citys or the entirety of England.

...Of course, these examples are just for reference's sake.  After that, then we go straight for building international politics!

DjinnAndTonic

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Note: Andy, you may want to check out the basic plot of ToV, as its story and yours have quite a lot of overlap.

I really like the concept of Magic being something that's researchable, understandable, quantifiable. A kind of energy, like photons - perhaps even having similar particle/wave properties. Even more fun to think about with this system is how magic manifests itself to the senses. Presumably, it's possible to sense all magic with all five senses. But only some people have really developed the talent to sense it in this manner. To the lay person, magic is just unseen force. A mage casts magic and results start happening. Nothing too flashy unless the mage is going for that. If a person can -sense- magic though, imagine the fireworks and bangs that result from all the heat and light escaping from exciting spells!

ToV did something really neat in that it referred to spells as "Formulas", and that really excited the math-lover in me. I think we could do something similar (many fantasy novels have done it, but I think the idea still has lots of room for exploration).

Basic proposal for division of magic schools based on senses and how they might relate to gameplay.

Sense of Touch: This is probably the most intuitive way to sense magic. You feel it on your skin, in your nerve endings. You don't think about feeling it, it just happens. It's raw, it's alive, and it's easy to shape. I don't think humans would have ever developed anything resembling civilization if a lot of people were able to feel this. They'd be too caught up in the ecstasy or the pain of feeling magic all the time. Alternately, it'd be way too easy for this kind of mage to go crazy with their power.

I imagine a rare few people are born with this ability with any significant level of sensitivity. These people would be very adept at using magic, and require no teaching to use spells. In fact, they would have the opposite problem, they'd be able to learn too much magic... and unable to forget it. With too much sensitivity, they would be unable to -stop- feeling the magic. And I imagine that can be quite painful.

A less sensitive Tactile mage would probably have less trouble with pain, but more trouble in using spells intuitively. They may even require touching their targets to effect them. Or being in contact with magical items to cast proper spells.

Gameplay-wise, Tactile mages intrigue me as an idea. Sensitive ones control magic intuitively, they never have to be taught how. They could essentially be Blue Mages. Once they experience a spell, they will never forget it. They also don't have to think about the magic, much like one doesn't have to think about feeling hot or cold. They would be extremely speedy spellcasters, but would wear out quickly from the backlash of their own spells (HP-reliant spells, or one-use-cooldown spells are some example ideas). Many would be very suited to casting Healing spells as these may counteract the effects of 'old wounds' when used (Healing another person may also cause some 'backlash healing' to the lucky Tactile mage). But also, they sense magic when it touches them, so they have little time to react to it before they are affected by it, so a pure Tactile mage is probably the most magically-frail type. Alternately, they're used to experiencing constant pain, so they might be a bit more physically resistant (or have/need high HP).

A less sensitive Tactile mage is a little luckier in some ways. They wouldn't need to worry about backlash from their own spells, so they can continue to cast more. However, they may require being in contact with the target (melee-range mage!), or consuming magic from a powered-up item to direct long-range spells. These actions are still easily intuitive and would allow the low-sensitivity Tactile mage to cast effects quickly, though the abilities would not be nearly as strong as a high-sensitivity Tactile mage. Also, learning spells just be experiencing them may take more time than simply studying how to cast it. Many low-sensitivity Tactile mages, having a relatively rare sense but not burdened by constant pain, would probably consider becoming Researchers of The Flow as they already have an unteachable talent for understanding it.

Sense of Taste/Smell: Another intuitive method of sensing The Flow. The senses of Smell and Taste are strongly related and separating them seems silly, but perhaps there might be one person who is only skilled at one or the other. Both of these senses are deeply rooted in the primal brain and require little conscious thought. As a result, this kind of mage rarely needs to do much studying or focusing to be talented with their gift. Unlike the other senses, Smell and Taste can only interact with larger substances, long carbon chains and other such molecules, as compared to particles or waves. This generally means that "Flavor mages" perform magic by sensing biological/organic components created in spells, such as some kind of pseudo-proteins created by Healing magic or Transmutation magic.

Flavor mages normally end up specialists in the Healing fields by profession, thanks to their talents. Many supplement their natural affinity for Healing with study on Anatomy and Disease. Though others may take to Animal Husbandry or Botany for similar reasons. This kind of natural affinity for healing would be very beneficial from an evolutionary standpoint, so unless some kind of purging occurred (likely in some cultures, meaning that it may be more prevalent in some civilizations than others), it seems likely that many people have this ability in some capacity, though not all may know how to use it effectively unless they are particularly sensitive to scents/tastes.

Gameplay-wise, Flavor mages are fairly intuitive types, so they would be fairly fast casters, and normally specialize in Healing, though other Biological-based spells would be open to them as well. Since they can sense magic by its scent, they have far better reaction time to offensive magic than Tactile mages. Although Humans tend to have poor senses of smell in general, so it's likely they aren't particular good at reacting to it (average magic defense/evade). Manipulating magic through scent/taste would require tools/ingredients in my mind, so many spells would seem more like witch's concoctions or alchemical potions than the hand-waving Tactile mages. Probably the item-collecting/consuming-type mages in our groups, but some may be capable of using a target's own bodily fluids and humors to cause the magical reactions needed for Healing/Transmutation/Disease-causing spells.

Sense of Hearing: Now we come to the slightly more research-intensive branches of magic. Just like a sense of perfect pitch is an innate talent, sensing magic by sound is something that's primarily innately-known. However, similar to learning music, most people can be taught how to listen for different tones and pitches. Aural mages sense magic as a kind of music, and can control it in the same manner. While most people can be taught to hear the majority of tones accurately, there's a significantly fewer number of people who can manipulate the tones perfectly. The most skilled Aural mages are accomplished musicians in their own right and tend to treat magic as an art, though there are some Aural mages who treat their spells like mathematics formulas as well, especially the ones with less innate talent for hearing tones and singing on-key.

Since Aural magic is based on Sound, it tends to be the hardest to focus type of magic, and most spells are tuned with a general audience in mind. It is relatively easy to remember a spell of this manner once a song is learned and requires few resources from the caster. Some Aural mages may supplement their spellcasting abilities with instruments, lyrics, or dances for added focus. It's notable that vocal-based spells like this are the easiest to accidentally create a mistaken tone and are the most commonly flubbed kind of spell. It's also notable that the strongest spells of Aural magic tend to take a long time to complete the required pattern of tones. The more tone-deaf Aural mages tend to produce some very interesting effects using disjointed tones and pitches instead of more traditional 'songs'. Due to the nature of Dissonance and Resonance in this world, some basic Aural spells are commonly used to demonstrate the effects Dissonant and Resonant spells in even the most rural communities.

Gameplay-wise, Aural mages sense magic by sound and tend to be the most adept of all mages at sensing incoming magic before it strikes (High magic evade). Depending upon the strength of the caster, the effects of Aural magic can range from only during the performance of the chant to more permanent spells like the other schools of magic, though the longer-lasting spells are much harder to learn through this school. Spells for affecting large areas, such as manipulating weather, strengthening a group of people, or clearing a field of trees tend to be common. Casting speed for Aural mages is incredibly variable depending upon the strength of a spell. Weak spells can normally even be powered up by repeating the same chant multiple times in a row. However, mistakes happen frequently, and targeting single areas is difficult, so these spells have a tendency to miss or diffuse their effects, especially the further from the caster they get. Oddly enough, some spells actually grow in strength like a surging wave as they spread out from their caster, especially Dissonant spells.

Sense of Sight: Another research-heavy school of magic. Nearly any mage that takes up a profession in Magic eventually learns to hone their innate ability to see magic, no matter how faint it may be. It is very rare to have no ability at all to see magic, though most people tend to gloss over its subtle colors. Without being able to see it in some form, it becomes very difficult to study indeed. Vision mages are the most common mages around. They perceive magic as a wash of colors and learn to separate, connect, intensify, and erase the various shades of energy to produce physical effects. Vision magic tends to be first thing people think about when someone says the word 'spells' as Vision mages tend to produce a lot of excess energy when casting that escapes as light and heat. Because studying Vision magic is essentially studying energy, Vision mages tend to need a lot of time to study the complicated formulas for manipulating energy and take a relatively long time and a lot of focus to cast their spells, though generally with accurate, spectacular effect. Though more difficult spells may take some time to cast, Vision mages tend to be able to continue to cast simple spells for a long time without growing tired.

Gameplay-wise, I imagine Vision mages play like standard RPG mages. They can see magic long before it reaches them (provided they are paying attention) unlike Tactile and Flavor mages, but they are a bit more limited than Aural mages; giving them good durability to magic (how standard!). They can cast easy spells relatively quickly and frequently, but take more time and energy to cast larger spells (a Suiko-like charge system seems best to me). Manipulating colors means that generally using a single color (and vary shades of it) produces a corresponding elemental effect. Vision spells can be diagrammed on paper, so oftentimes even a lay person can use a simple diagrammed spell as a tool or to power a machine (or to item-cast a spell?). Vision magic has an odd tendency to be seen primarily in the Dissonant form, with very few known Resonant Vision spells in existence.

Sense of Mind/Logic: You didn't think I was going to shortchange you on senses just because I combined Smell/Taste, did you? Our Sixth Sense-type mages are the pure research branch. In no way can you accidentally become a mage like this. These mages devote their life to researching the Flow, to understanding spells, and many of them have some ability at all 4 innate magic senses. They have broken down magic into a set of laws and formulas, mapped its existence as a photon, a particle, a wave, a molecule. They understand -what- Magic is, and this knowledge itself allows them to cast spells unique to this school. They know how expand a singularity, count to infinity, simplify imaginary numbers, and divide by zero. What seems like impossibility to scientists is actually just incomplete data to these Theory mages and they know how to fill in the gaps. Oddly enough, some spiritual and religious leaders have been known to be able to produce magical effects similar to Theory magic through intense meditation and devotion, causing some to wonder about a possible connection, but authorities on both sides claim no relation.

A complex science, Theory magic tends to require complicated diagrams and geometric patterns to generate energy and focus for a spell. Mathematical formulas are commonly necessary to direct and relegate the effects of a spell, which can rapidly go out of control if handled improperly. Theory magic tends to be roughly equal in power and scope to Tactile spells, though takes a significantly longer amount of preparation to cast. As a trade-off, the caster is not directly effected by the spells and they tend to have a longer duration, even if they are not as immediately powerful. Some Theory mages have reported that using these spells is like Sensing the Thoughts of magic itself.

Gameplay-wise, there are probably no pure Theory mages, as it would require having no magical senses and that would make studying it extremely difficult. However, presumably one could exist if they studied hard enough. Being entirely magic-blind means that they have no defenses against magic. However, I suspect that someone completely null of magical senses may be some kind of untouchable blind spot in the Flow itself and might simply immune magic. It would be a rare occurrence, at any rate. Theory mages tend to be capable of some of the most spectacular magical effects, and the learnable nature of the spells makes it the ideal school for having multiple people to aid in the casting of a single spell.
A Theory mage who was quite talented in all the magical senses would be an ideal candidate for delicate tasks such as summoning creatures/deity-like entities or creating homunculi.


Overall, it seems like it wouldn't be uncommon for 'profesional' mages to have more than one magical sense, though most probably have a favored way of relating to magic. People who hold different occupations might have developed one sense in particular without needing the others, though. Gameplay-wise, this means that fighter-type characters might only know a few Taste/Smell-type spells to boost their own strength or something.



So, that's my outline for a magic system. A bit long, but I wanted to tie the gameplay system to world-building as much as possible. Agree, disagree, suggestions for tweaking?
« Last Edit: January 19, 2010, 03:53:21 PM by DjinnAndTonic »

AndrewRogue

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Re: <Untitled IAQ Project>: Round 2: A quip would be clever here, wouldn't it?
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2010, 05:13:19 PM »
Not reading much yet, since it is a mere coffee break that I am on.

Yeah. I thought about putting a note in there about the environmentally preachy thing. Both sides have their pros and cons. The far extremes on both edges are pretty nasty and villainous on the whole. While its pretty obvious why the whole Dissonant production thing is Bad (TM) I didn't really emphasize why getting rid of it is also Bad (TM). Suffice to say that the whole of the society is fairly dependent on Dissonant production on the whole and culling it out in any drastic fashion would lead to mass materials shortage, potential for mass starvation, etc. The far end of the rebellion/revolution thinks the loss of life is well worth it.

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Re: <Untitled IAQ Project>: Round 2: A quip would be clever here, wouldn't it?
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2010, 05:24:07 PM »
Looks good so far. I think the setting lends itself very well to multiple perspectives, and will start brainstorming for character/plot thread ideas that fit within the setting shortly. Also I like that the magic system is more well-thought out than like... pretty much every other RPG, more along the lines of what you might see in fantasy. I dig. Also agreed that it probably lends itself pretty well to in-battle magic for all that my thoughts are less concerned with that at the moment since we're not yet on the topic of how PCs do in battle.

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Re: <Untitled IAQ Project>: Round 2: A quip would be clever here, wouldn't it?
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2010, 05:40:42 PM »
Liking the look of this a lot. I'll try to chime in a little more when we get to specific character discussions, since I honestly can't think of anything to add at this stage.
Also liking Djinn's ideas, but this only covers the mages. And I don't want to instantly say "Yup, that works!" and not even consider looking at other options.

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Re: <Untitled IAQ Project>: Round 2: A quip would be clever here, wouldn't it?
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2010, 06:50:06 PM »
This setup's got a nice flavor.  Bad writing could make it enviro-preachy, but as it stands, it looks like it could work.  Quieting...yeah.  That's blatant plot magic if I've ever heard it, and shouldn't be revealed until late into the story.  Hinting at it and its use mid to mid-late at earliest, to boot.  Availability...well, that's pretty obvious.  The Disquiet, on that end, works to explain some opposition people might face in travels, at least.  Mutated creatures, natural animals driven to madness, and other things best not spoken of, nevermind seen.  This, alongside the political tension, would definitely provide a lot of conflict potential.


I'm liking what Djinn's saying, and mixing and matching the schools would allow for a wide variety of magic use.  I'm considering several ideas already on that, but will be on that later.


Now, semi-tangentially, "Tons of islands" implies a significant amount of water in the setting.  This would thus imply that sea/ocean routes would be viable.  ...and thus, piracy would likely not be uncommon.  In fact--if there's a lot of water travel, then I'm now seeing pirates and privateers--under hire of nobles, against other nobles, for the purposes of either undermining power or attempting to gain more of their own.  And with the kingdom's power at a low--naval included--there wouldn't be too much stopping them, I don't think.

Furthermore, the idea of the Great Lord gives me the idea of a group of people who have taken it upon themselves to make sure that nobody tries to come to him with anything--as to avoid sparking yet another war.  They would not be above killing in order to reach this goal--but at the same time intend to remain secret.  In today's world, they would be neutral to the issue of the Disquiet, as such is secondary to another war of such magnitude on the hands of humanity.  To that degree, they would attempt to warn away people who got close, eliminate people who get too close, as well as destroy any information pertaining to either their own existence or the location of the Great Lord.  Just a random idea on my part, but if the plot would take Noemi so far, it feels like that would be a logical entity.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2010, 07:11:24 PM by Namagomi »
<+Nama-EmblemOfFire> ...Have the GhebFE guy and the ostian princess guy collaborate.
 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.

Excal

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Re: <Untitled IAQ Project>: Round 2: A quip would be clever here, wouldn't it?
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2010, 08:37:48 PM »
I don't see these people who guard the Great Lord as necessarily being neutral on the issue of Disquiet myself, and more opposed to it, and seeing any such conflict as one that would only lead to further weaponization of dissonance, which would lead to a further slagging of the land with Disquiet.  After all, the foremost warriors and producers of this land are essentially walking nukes.  That said, I also wasn't even entirely sure this Great Lord was even still alive, since his description is essentially "The First Wizard".  Not a God, but commonly viewed as one because he was just that damned powerful.  I mean, hell, we could have him revered as a god of sorts, and even just have the truth of the story, which Andy gave us first in his synopsys be a twist that comes out when they find his resting place.

One thing that does appeal to me is this.  Likely, this Empire has not only conquored all of it neighbours, but it likely also took all the noteworthy land it could reach.  After all, resources are no issue.  This likely also led to a) far more population growth than could naturally be sustained, and b) a lifestyle of consumption that cannot be sustained.  Those two points are likely leading to c) immense pressure to keep the system going because tens of thousands are going to die of starvation and much more than that see a massive drop in their way of life if the Distortion Plantations cease operation, or even drop operation in any appreciable way.  And d) there is likely also a huge push to explore further and further out in search of new lands to colonize so that the population can be diffused and new sources of resources can be found.  Or, hell, new places that no one cares about can be slagged in order to keep the empire going.

This means that the Empire proper will be for anything to lessen the Disquiet, because Distortion is the power on which their empire is based.  Whereas, I can see several lesser nobles wanting to co-opt, capture, or delay (by any of an assorted number of means, including killing) any such fix because they can see themselves doing better than the other lesser lords when the Empire falls apart under the strain, and it doesn't matter what happens to some other lord's people so long as they can procure enough goods and food for their own people. 

So, yeah.  I'd say not just piracy is becoming rampant, but also that the lesser lords are starting to mass their armed forces, and the Empire's forces are starting to get stretched between dealing with riots, protecting shipments from the Distortion Plantations that still operate, and exploring for new and viable lands.

AndrewRogue

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Re: <Untitled IAQ Project>: Round 2: A quip would be clever here, wouldn't it?
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2010, 09:12:17 PM »
More caught up now. I feel vaguely cheated that I feel Djinn wrote more than me, it looks like. *fist shake* I'll comment on that when I have a bit more time, as it is an interesting blend of things I already thought, things that I think are neat, things I dislike and things that are just things.

Anyhow, some clarifications.

Quote
I know I shouldn't be nitpicking, but I think the point of dissonance and resonance might be missed here.  If anything, Dissonance can be considered the direct distortion of reality/Flow, while Resonance is the magnification of natural law.

In fact, both would have their considerations in healing, as well.  Dissonance is more of an instant effect, so its use could conceivably be to save a life on the brink of death by sealing up wounds on a body/instantly destroying a fatal disease.  The downside is that scarring may be restrictive to those who were healed this way, or coming out with a FAR weaker immune system.  Resonance, however, would just improve the quality and power of natural regeneration, as well as improving the state of a target's immune system, making them stronger within the boundaries of natural law.  The downside to that, however, may that the improved regeneration and stronger immune system may not actually gain power and/or take effect fast enough to save someone's life.

Bingo. Magic hit the nail on the head and, in fact, hit the example I probably should have used perfectly. Dissonant healing of any substantial amount, while capable of pretty much bringing you back from death's door itself, utterly reams the bodies naturally capabilities. Too much of it, and your immune system would collapse, your body would stop self-healing, your mind would start to crumble. Of course, if its the only thing to save your life... Resonance is great for downtime healing, minor injuries or naturally recoverable stuff.

Since the idea seems to be somewhat like, let us hit the bigger world spoiler/major late story plot/etc.

Quieting is the null form of magic, the art of causing the cessation of the Flow. Remember how I talked about everything being comprised of the Flow? Yeah. That makes Quieting a Bad (TM) thing on the whole. Quieting is the cessation of being. At an emotional level, it is the creation of apathy and nihilsm. At the physical level it is, essentially, death. It is capable of fully nulling out Dissonance and wars pretty evenly with Resonance.

However.

The ideal final goal is the discovery that the three magic systems (Res/Dis/Quieting) are, in fact, complimentary. The power that humanity acquired was imperfect, in essence, because they got the chunks seperately and lost one along the way. Ideally speaking, perfection can be achieved via this:

Dissonance (Create the Effect) -> Quieting (Still the Flow, reducing its distortion and thus reducing the Disquiet) -> Resonance (Embolden the Flow, negating the effects of the Quieting on the subject). To be perfectly balanced, it requires three equally competent users performing an effect that all three can handle but, fundamentally, it would allow for a readjustment of society that would, eventually, allow recovery from the way things have been going without the issues that cutting out Dissonant production completely would.

So. Yes. I am specifically avoiding enviro-preachy. I'm also avoiding industrial-praechy. The idea is all about the middle ground! Hurrah, moderates!

It should be noted here that the Guardians learned a very, very, very rudimentary form of this process, which, in addition to the blood, sweat and tears spent learning to fight the in/around/against the Disquiet, made them so bloody brilliant at it. The vast majority aren't even aware that it IS a form of magic and just think it is hard training and meditation. Debatably, the vast majority of Guardians do NOT possess the sixth sense to detect the Flow. This is typified in the Guardian's fighting style which, outwardly, is all about maintaining a calm, relaxed demeanor and striking with sudden ferocity. In reality, they project a very mild aura of Quieting, before enhancing themselves with Resonance and their weapon with a Dissonance to take it far beyond itself. The Resonance protects themselves from long exposure to their own Disquiet, as well as allowing them the sudden emotional outpouring when they attack. The Disquiet prevents their weapon from deteriorating due to the Dissonance. Etc. Think of it as a mystical form of Iaijutsu, since that's what I've based Mirek's fighting style in annnnnyways.

Anyhow, if people want to roll with this, I only really have ideas for Noemi's branch (which I'll detail on my coffee break/after work, along with answering more things) so, if we want one - two more branches, people ought start brainstorming because I have 0 for anything besides that. Well. I mean, there are rough ideas, but nothing hugely cohesive in the same way as the world and the one branch. Bah. You know what I mean. Keep contributing and don't be intimidated.

Or else.

Seriously, good stuff so far. ^_^

Edit: Because I fail at tags.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2010, 10:06:35 PM by AndrewRogue »

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Re: <Untitled IAQ Project>: Round 2: A quip would be clever here, wouldn't it?
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2010, 09:26:07 PM »
Have to say I'm really liking the world setting.  Actual plot I don't really care one way or another.

Also liking Djinn's crude schools thing.  The basic ideas are good, though there's some room for change/tweaking in there.  Mostly speaking from a mechanics standpoint, though it fits the setting well which is the important part for this topic.  Also allows for my main idea for a PC, which gets bonus points!

Not much else to say outside of that.

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Re: <Untitled IAQ Project>: Round 2: A quip would be clever here, wouldn't it?
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2010, 09:36:05 PM »
So, do the people know that the use of Dissonance destroys your immune system, or do they just know it causes you to become sick? I'm just wondering if a society that possesses multiple levels of magical healing should have much of a knowledge of things like cellular biology.

Excal

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Re: <Untitled IAQ Project>: Round 2: A quip would be clever here, wouldn't it?
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2010, 10:18:26 PM »
Given the dominant form of magic is Dissonance, I'd actually expect the typical views of the body to be more in chakras or wholistic energy flows and the like.  Especially since those views mesh better with the magic system in place here than western views of the body.  And I would imagine that with this view, and in light of world events, that if people didn't already know, then it'd certainly either be widely suspected (in the way some folks view power cables or cell phones and cancer) or it would be something that people would be in collective denial about.

Given what you just said, I think I actually really like the idea of a Guardian Path now.  If only so that we can actually have Quietus in there the whole way, but also show people as not understanding what it is, or rather, thinking it's just a different form of distortion.  This does mean that Noemi's path cannot branch with this path early, but that's not actually a huge deal.

For a third, I'm thinking that with the Guardian revelation, looking for something from outside is no longer necessary.  And that means that, as much fun as it could be to work with one, that a 'barbarian' kingdom now has no real narritive purpose to exist.  This means we'd want either a proper Imperial viewpoint, likely focussed on trying to keep the kingdom together.  Either that, or a more Resonant focused Peasent party, though that seems like it'd have to take some work to be differentiated from the Guardian path.

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Re: <Untitled IAQ Project>: Round 2: A quip would be clever here, wouldn't it?
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2010, 10:39:23 PM »
Hm.  Those that revere the (potentially) fallen Great Lord as a god.  That would indeed be an interesting twist on things.

And the forces becoming highly stretched all but guarantees that mercenary work is very readily available.  With the gap in manpower, those who fight for money would be in enough demand that the world would ultimately support such.  These jobs would likely range from the typical (bodyguard, escorting for supplies) to the unscrupulous (Sabotage, assassination), and varying in between based on the person hiring--government mercenaries would be to fill in the manpower for varied tasks (putting down riots, helping to transport supplies, so on).  Mercenaries hired under lords would either be used to fill in their personal armies more, or directing attacks against other nobles without letting it be known who performed the attack in the first place--likely very popular for that reason alone.


...of course, those of them that are particularly good at what they do are treated as a significant risk--since if the person's loyalty was to money alone, and any opposition paid well enough, that weapon could be turned against them in a second's notice.


Which brings me to an idea for one of the other plot branches, albeit with names removed because I can't THINK of any as of this moment: [name1], a disillusioned and experienced officer in the Empire who was somewhat successful in fighting the Guardians in the past rebellion, was one of those who had gone 'MIA' during a recent riot as an unidentified third party had attacked.  Accompanying her, much to her own irritation at times, is [name2], a fresh mercenary who's clearly a bit too idealistic for his situation.  Not long after, [name1] quickly learns that she has been suspected of high treason by the empire she served, and now ends up having to fight on three fronts; to escape from the mercenaries who are after the price on her head--and the imperials who are after it out of duty, to find and exact vengeance on the person who set this up to begin with, and to survive with what little money and food they have... (More details to be forthcoming; I have another class soon)

Have a third branch idea, but it's vague to say the least...and now seeing Excal's idea for the Guardian path...might want to expand upon that for the third.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2010, 10:48:38 PM by Namagomi »
<+Nama-EmblemOfFire> ...Have the GhebFE guy and the ostian princess guy collaborate.
 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.

Excal

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Re: <Untitled IAQ Project>: Round 2: A quip would be clever here, wouldn't it?
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2010, 10:58:28 PM »
Hmm, Imperial Path as an ex-Imperial currently a mercenary simply trying to survive both past enemies and past employers who both want him/her dead for different reasons.  Yeah, I can actually see this party acting as a kind of bridge between the two other stories for the first bit.  As well, because of the fact that they're simply trying to get away from everything else, I'd imagine this group will be a good one to introduce a good chunk of the BBEG plot.  Noemi's being the other.

Guardian, on the other hand, feels like it's going to be the reason as to why the Empire isn't going to simply stand up and fix things, assuming that the final battle is big and public.  It might actually be nice if we take the rarer route of the big final battle being somewhere completely out of the way and most people don't actually even know it's happening.  In which case, everything may fall on the party simply because anything else will simply cause even more trouble than actually letting everything fall to pieces and throwing everything at the BBEG and then making sure there's something to pick up afterwards.


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Re: <Untitled IAQ Project>: Round 2: A quip would be clever here, wouldn't it?
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2010, 11:29:22 PM »
Just mentioning that the three magic types lend itself really well to the three party system we were talking about in the gameplay thread. Each party could have one person who is particularly skilled in that type of magic. Although the Quieting user may know about it or have full control of their power at the start of the game.

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Re: <Untitled IAQ Project>: Round 2: A quip would be clever here, wouldn't it?
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2010, 11:50:46 PM »
Well, in regards to the novel, Andy, you could always work on novelizing what we write up as a whole >_>

Anyway, thoughts, so I don't fall so behind this time!

I really like the set-up.  The description of magic and everything is detailed and direct, and works exceptionally well.  I think it complements everything, and the background is definitely budding positiveness.

If I read it right, here are the thoughts for paths:

Branch 1: Noemi
Branch 2: Guardian
Branch 3: Imperial (fallen Imperial?)

This story also holds a lot in common with Rudra.  I'd actually like to suggest a 4th, short, relatively small path that occurs before the others tie together, similar to Dune in Rudra.  Something that is a short connection between them, preferably with a person involved with the other paths (a peasant in an area everyone goes through that has no magical power, or something, or perhaps putting a true Quieter there).  This story set-up seems like it would be helpful to have that - probably not necessary, but it would allow, if we were looking for 20 characters, 4 groups of 5, 5 person battles (again, mechanics and the like).  It also would allow another perspective, as right now, looking at the paths, we're missing the commoner, which I feel gets left out a lot more often than not.  Also allows some extra logic and perspective as to why things need fixed.
[11:53] <+Meeple_Gorath> me reading, that's a good one

[19:26] * +Terra_Condor looks up. Star Wars Football, what?
[19:27] <+Terra_Condor> Han Kicks First?
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Vader intercepts.
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Touchdown and Alderaan explodes in the victory

Excal

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Re: <Untitled IAQ Project>: Round 2: A quip would be clever here, wouldn't it?
« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2010, 12:26:41 AM »
Thing is, to a certain extent I can see merging the commoner with the three different paths, since they can all have excuses to mix it up with commoners.  Noemi least of all, but the other two certainly.  One is having to blend in with them, and figuring out just how bad things really are.  The other is because that's likely where a large part of their base is, and where they're hiding out to some extent.

I mean, it really sounds like the modern Guardians will be a guerilla group.

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Re: <Untitled IAQ Project>: Round 2: A quip would be clever here, wouldn't it?
« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2010, 12:32:37 AM »
Personally I think the idea of a Fallen Imperial already gives a lot of opportunity to explore the world and see the commoner's point of view.

However, I'm not opposed to a 4th viewpoint idea as a short way of tying things together. Very Suiko3 Thomas, and that's my favorite part of S3. Although... I wouldn't suggest giving commoner a full new cast, it seems excessive. It's an option, but I'd rather keep the main 3 parties as the focus. I'd rather see our Thomas as a side/temp PC in one of the other paths, and then his 4th viewpoint chapter simply brings him to the fore. Be careful s/he doesn't become Jesus. So... I don't suggest carpenter as an occupation.

This would have to be a very short chapter if we implement it, otherwise we'll probably be rehashing a lot of Fallen Imperial's world-building.