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Author Topic: <Untitled IAQ Project>: Round 3: Wherein Attack=((((Y/Z)^M)*T)+R)/0...  (Read 10843 times)

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: <Untitled IAQ Project>: Round 3: Wherein Attack=((((Y/Z)^M)*T)+R)/0...
« Reply #50 on: January 28, 2010, 05:24:20 AM »
Tal: Yeah, I'm fine with that. As I was writing that post I realised there was rather little I felt would have no weaknesses. You basically have... some golem type things. Slimes? Basically mostly fantasy monsters we may or may not even have! They're rare enough we can just call such enemies immune to crits if we really feel like it.

I dig the idea of Def x0.5, Final damage x1.5 for crits. Though I'm not really picky here. I do think they should partially ignore defence, since the point of a critical hit is that it hits a weak point on the target's armour. Plate mail isn't so useful if somebody gets you in your eye.

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Talaysen

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Re: <Untitled IAQ Project>: Round 3: Wherein Attack=((((Y/Z)^M)*T)+R)/0...
« Reply #51 on: January 28, 2010, 05:57:43 AM »
Yes... I'm aware of that. Sorry for writing it like that, I didn't mean to cause confusion. The point of that line was the Damage x2 (after all of the other calculations) part. Add an 'about' in front of the '4 turns' and then we have no problems, right?

Maybe.  At least I know you're not interpreting it wrong with that.  (I've actually seen people on like GFAQs who believe that 25% => every four turns period.)

Though just 2x damage is pretty boring and... adding defense piercing makes more sense with "critical hit", which is generally striking a weakpoint.

Tal: Yeah, I'm fine with that. As I was writing that post I realised there was rather little I felt would have no weaknesses. You basically have... some golem type things. Slimes? Basically mostly fantasy monsters we may or may not even have! They're rare enough we can just call such enemies immune to crits if we really feel like it.

Well, for something like slimes?  I probably wouldn't see them having much "defense" anyway, though they could have a solid "vitality" stat (they're squishy, physical damage isn't really going to stick on them, but they aren't going to outright tink stuff either).  Magic should probably hit them normally though!

Golems, yeah, we could just give them crit immunity or something.

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Re: <Untitled IAQ Project>: Round 3: Wherein Attack=((((Y/Z)^M)*T)+R)/0...
« Reply #52 on: January 28, 2010, 08:31:27 AM »
Golems, yeah, we could just give them crit immunity or something.

That and they'd be highly resistant to certain shit you throw at them in the first place, given their nature. Anyway, we can be flexible about individual monster types/species. It's not a huge issue.

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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: <Untitled IAQ Project>: Round 3: Wherein Attack=((((Y/Z)^M)*T)+R)/0...
« Reply #53 on: January 28, 2010, 10:03:03 PM »
Quote
I do kind of think there should be an opposite stat to Strength (Vitality?) that works as a divisor on this thing.

Well, hmm. As I said already I do think personal defence stats are unnecessary, and I rather dislike having more stats than the mechanics require (*punts Luck stats in many games*). That said, I'm willing to bet I'll be overruled on this one. If so, that's fine, just change "Strength" to "Strength divided by target Vitality" and you'd have it factored in. This even makes sense; tough people aren't going to be so tough that knives tink off of them (that's what armour is for) but it may mean they can withstand a cut from said knife better.

Mechanically I will note that everything that a Vit stat can accomplish besides natural differences in PC toughness (which I'm not certain I buy or find necessary) can be accomplished either via skill multipliers to defence or final damage (e.g. a monk with an impossibly tough body may have a skill that grants her a base armour) or via the slashing/piercing/bludgeoning elemental resist options (e.g. we can still make slimes who reduce physical damage without tinking it).

If we do have PC Vit stats then I strongly suggest they vary rather little overall (barring true freaks of nature); pure unmodified division defence is very potent if large variation is present, especially in a system that already has subtraction.


On derived stats, since I haven't really weighed in on them: generally opposed. Seems like needless stat clutter. You can draw a few things from core stats, sure (e.g. I could totally see Dexterity also functioning as the base of evade before shields, parrying weapons, and passive skills modify it) but I really dislike the idea of having a whole set of core stats which serve no other purpose but to define a second layer of stats or determine their growth. Stats should serve a direct, understandable purpose. "Strength increases the damage I do with physicals", "Dexterity increases how many swings I make and decreases the number of swings enemies make against me", "Speed increases how often I get turns" are examples of what I think core stats should do.

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Re: <Untitled IAQ Project>: Round 3: Wherein Attack=((((Y/Z)^M)*T)+R)/0...
« Reply #54 on: January 28, 2010, 11:14:24 PM »
We're looking at a lot of different stats either way. By your system, we already have a STR and ATK value, only the attack value is now directly coming from the weapon (do we list that on the main menu? Do you have to go to the Equip menu every time to see Weapon ATK?).

Not to mention that Defense and Evade each have a Magical counterpoint (we could simplify this, but it doesn't make sense in Flavor - some characters are better at dodging magic and some are better at tanking it, and it's not related to how well they deal with swordswings).

Add in any kind of innate elemental resists or natural affinity for types of magic use or which type of physical damage they're more skilled at... and yeah, we've got a lot of stats. And they should all be easy to find on a menu. However, in a simplified menu (like a level-up screen)... it makes sense to only show the relevent stats that can be increased, so having derived stats in that case would be a good thing. It's just a question of presentation, I'd think. I'm fine with dropping them for an IAQ, unless we actually have a method of using them in a skill formula or something (which, who knows what kind of skills we're going for... maybe Dissonance buffs would directly effect DEF/ATK, while Resonance buffs would boost a body's innate VIT/STR?)


Dark Holy Elf

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Re: <Untitled IAQ Project>: Round 3: Wherein Attack=((((Y/Z)^M)*T)+R)/0...
« Reply #55 on: January 29, 2010, 12:21:31 AM »
Yeah, status screen should definitely show both personal stats and key equipment stats. Most games do this anyway (even 20-year old ass-backwards games like FF4). If we can't fit everything on a status screen, chances are we have too many stats.

(That said, if we're going to do something like list proficiencies for different weapon types and magic types, which I have no opinion on, then that could always go to a different screen.)

When a character levels up I'd only show stats that can change on level up, i.e. not equipment stuff, but yes personal stats. Again, seems pretty standard.

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Re: <Untitled IAQ Project>: Round 3: Wherein Attack=((((Y/Z)^M)*T)+R)/0...
« Reply #56 on: January 29, 2010, 12:34:59 AM »
Regarding my 2nd Stat list, It's kind of easier to come up with another logical name for the base of Magic Power rather than the base of Magical Awareness.  Perhaps just Awareness instead of Intelligence.

Anyway, Elfboy:

After pounding it over in my head, the logic behind your method makes sense.  The key problem is that you currently don't have a way for the strike to miss.

I'm thinking that early FF games had each "hit" be tested.  Do agree that thee should be a difference between quick light hits and hard slow ones.  Just not seeing a way to combine these two concepts (of having stat-based number of possible hits and stat-based hit chance)

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Re: <Untitled IAQ Project>: Round 3: Wherein Attack=((((Y/Z)^M)*T)+R)/0...
« Reply #57 on: January 29, 2010, 12:44:22 AM »
Quote
After pounding it over in my head, the logic behind your method makes sense.  The key problem is that you currently don't have a way for the strike to miss.

Yes he does. It's called evasion.
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: <Untitled IAQ Project>: Round 3: Wherein Attack=((((Y/Z)^M)*T)+R)/0...
« Reply #58 on: January 29, 2010, 12:51:04 AM »
Yeah, each individual swing makes a hit check according to whatever accuracy formula we end up using. I guess we could tie the whole string to a single hit check but that makes less sense to me.


Anyway, more on stats. Still focussing on the physical half of mechanics for now. We're looking at the following core stats:

-Strength/Attack/whatever
-Dexterity
-Speed
-Vitality (assuming NEBs are overruled and we do want personal defence via stat)
-HP
-MP

Without touching magic yet, there's still hit and evade. I'm going to assume we want some characters to be more naturally accurate, and some to be more naturally evasive. My question to you all is should these be core stats? Meaning that they would have a totally different growth pattern than the above stats? Or should they be derived from existing stats in some way? (Dex and/or speed presumably, though there's a case for Strength factoring into attack accuracy... maybe.)

Actually, group Crit in there too. Although that I am probably in support of us not having PCs be different in besides individual weapons (which can obviously modify crit) and a few personal skills (Improved Crit Rate, or whatever).

Remember that whatever method we use for personal hit/evade, they will end up modified significantly by equipment. Let's say we end up making Hit and Evade based off Dex and/or speed... we can still have someone who is bad in the core stats but good in evade by giving them weapons (+hit or +evade), shields (+evade), or passive skills (any + we want!).

I don't really have a strong opinion at this point. Advantage of making Hit/evade derived: avoid clutter of core stats we need to keep track of growths for. Advantage of making them core: Easier to differentiate cast without relying on equipment and skills to create a stat build which the derivation formulas don't allow.

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Re: <Untitled IAQ Project>: Round 3: Wherein Attack=((((Y/Z)^M)*T)+R)/0...
« Reply #59 on: January 29, 2010, 01:00:03 AM »
Yeah, I'm strongly in favor of having more core stats to increase how much we can vary PCs' uniqueness. Especially if we're going the route of having mostly non-unique weapons/armor. .

Even CRT could make for an interesting build difference. Just basing it off of FE - we could have a PC with a super-high CRT rate, but a low Accuracy rate. So this PCs' physicals aren't hitting often, but when they do, it kills things dead. Supplement with some kind of weak ITE magic skills and you have a fairly flexible PC build right there.


Dark Holy Elf

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Re: <Untitled IAQ Project>: Round 3: Wherein Attack=((((Y/Z)^M)*T)+R)/0...
« Reply #60 on: January 29, 2010, 01:02:21 AM »
Well, the particular Crit example could easily be accomplished by giving this PC some unique or near-unique "killer" weaponry and/or giving them a passive skill that boosts Crit, since she sounds like an exceptional case.

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Re: <Untitled IAQ Project>: Round 3: Wherein Attack=((((Y/Z)^M)*T)+R)/0...
« Reply #61 on: January 29, 2010, 01:18:27 AM »
I'm fine with that if we're going to start going the unique weapons route.

But honestly, since we're looking at having multiple ways for characters to learn their skills and develop their traits, I'd rather that there be more core stats to develop differently rather than every character relying on unique weapons to get their individual stat builds.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2010, 01:20:10 AM by DjinnAndTonic »

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: <Untitled IAQ Project>: Round 3: Wherein Attack=((((Y/Z)^M)*T)+R)/0...
« Reply #62 on: January 29, 2010, 01:29:53 AM »
I thought we generally agreed that unique weapons would be the exception, and not the rule.

Regardless, whatever your opinion on Hit/Evade (which I can see going either way), I really don't think Crit needs to be a core stat (meaning one needs to have its own coded stat growth). I'm not sure I can think of a game that does that. Either derive it from some other stat and modify that with weapons/skills (like FE does) or make it some fixed base value and modify that only with weapons/skills (like most RPGs do... Pokemon for an easy example).

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Re: <Untitled IAQ Project>: Round 3: Wherein Attack=((((Y/Z)^M)*T)+R)/0...
« Reply #63 on: January 29, 2010, 02:30:26 AM »
I thought we generally agreed that unique weapons would be the exception, and not the rule.

We did. And I like it this way, but that means that we should have more core stats to develop PCs differently since their equips are less selective.

I'm okay with CRT being a fixed stat, but I would like it to be different for each PC, and adjustable with equips/passive skills.

Quote
Regardless, whatever your opinion on Hit/Evade (which I can see going either way), I really don't think Crit needs to be a core stat (meaning one needs to have its own coded stat growth). I'm not sure I can think of a game that does that. Either derive it from some other stat and modify that with weapons/skills (like FE does) or make it some fixed base value and modify that only with weapons/skills (like most RPGs do... Pokemon for an easy example).

So... yeah, I guess we're mostly on the same page. >.>;;

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Re: <Untitled IAQ Project>: Round 3: Wherein Attack=((((Y/Z)^M)*T)+R)/0...
« Reply #64 on: January 29, 2010, 02:54:53 AM »
NEB: I'm fine with Vitality not varying a whole lot, though I was thinking there could be a PC who had little in the way of armor (maybe none?) but would have a high Vitality stat.  I mean, you could do this with skills or physical resistance (and I'd be fine if we did the latter, since that's basically what it does), but I think the Vitality stat would be more intuitive?  Though if we split the physical element, resistances would give us more to work with mechanically (and we could do the same with magic damage... though what about "non-elemental" magic if we have it?).

On Accuracy/Evade/Crit: I'm fine with these being constant and modified by equipment.  That or we could have Accuracy and Evade be partially derived from stats (Dexterity/Speed?) and then modified by equipment again.  Crit I'm more inclined to just do the former, though I guess the latter would work as well.

Just throwing this initial opinion out now since my food is done, might mull over it and change my mind/add to it later.

EDIT: Thinking on it, using just resistance means it's likely to be constant throughout the game, and I kneejerk against doing that.  Will have to think about it more, but yeah, still leaning towards using a stat there.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2010, 03:07:31 AM by Talaysen »

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Re: <Untitled IAQ Project>: Round 3: Wherein Attack=((((Y/Z)^M)*T)+R)/0...
« Reply #65 on: January 29, 2010, 06:51:56 PM »
Accuracy/Evade/Crit: Ho hrm. I'd say... make them unique constants for each PC, modified by equipment/buffs (and maybe the other base stats if you want to give them growth of some sort). That'd be my guess. Honestly, I'm not overly concerned about clutter since we don't, at the moment, have that many stats it looks like (I dunno, somebody lay it out for me) and they are all pretty transparant, and we seem to be avoiding using derived stats anyway, so consistency to some degree.

On a "defense" stat: I reversed my stance here. My coffee break just ended abruptly so uh... passive skill for any notably tanky/untanky PC should do it.

On the the swing mechanic: I like the idea of it, and it provides more interesting options for us. For example, big, slow weapons could break better while fast, multi-hit weapons have better chances to proc effects. Etc. I'll really need to see it in practice, but NEB's layout really made it look interesting/awesome.

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Re: <Untitled IAQ Project>: Round 3: Wherein Attack=((((Y/Z)^M)*T)+R)/0...
« Reply #66 on: January 29, 2010, 07:40:07 PM »
On the the swing mechanic: I like the idea of it, and it provides more interesting options for us. For example, big, slow weapons could break better while fast, multi-hit weapons have better chances to proc effects. Etc. I'll really need to see it in practice, but NEB's layout really made it look interesting/awesome.

What you seem to be suggesting here is that things like status effects and "randocast" effects on weapons be checked every hit.  I think this is a good idea myself.  Would give faster weapons more use against higher defense enemies still (though the damage loss would be notable so there's still a downside as well).  Though I'd suggest making the effect rate on faster weapons a bit lower in general to compensate.

---

Was thinking about how to do magic damage.  Haven't come up with a great way to do it, but going to post my failure ideas and "decent" ideas here and maybe it'll spark some idea in someone.

First naive approach was to follow the same formula as the physical damage, but without swings.  Thus:

(1) Damage = Intelligence / Spirit * (Power - Magic_Defense*B) * C

B basically constant, C also depends on the spell involved.

The problem with this idea is unless we make Magic_Defense nearly constant, earlygame spells are going to just tink at endgame, and that's bad.  We want spells to be at least remotely usable (lower SP cost than stronger spells) at endgame.

Next:

(2) Damage = Intelligence / Spirit * (Power*Intelligence*A - Magic_Defense*B) * C

B/C same as above, A constant to make Power easier numbers to work with (likely well below 1).  Formula looks fine on a glance, but Intelligence is too important, I find.  Doesn't have the problem the first one had though.

So instead:

(3) Damage = Intelligence / Spirit * [(Power+Intelligence*A) - Magic_Defense*B] * C

B/C same as above, A is a constant that depends on how we design Intelligence values compared to Power values.  For example, if we have Power values ranging in the hundreds, and decide on a 0-100 range for Intelligence, A could even be just 1.  If Intelligence ranges from 0-1000, A would be much lower, maybe 0.1.  Also depends on how much we want Intelligence to matter.

I like this one best of the three.  It doesn't emphasize Intelligence as much as the second, and doesn't have the problem of the first.  Kind of a middle ground.

Now, for another idea, I'm going to expand on this.

Like with the physical formula, we can create a magical analog to Dexterity, for now let's call it Willpower.  Instead of doing it as swings as before, we'll make this more continuous.

(4) Damage = Intelligence / Spirit * [(Power+Intelligence*A) - Magic_Defense*B] * C * (2*A.Willpower / D.Willpower - 1)

Okay, that last factor looks weird, but I have a reason for it.  If you look at the physical formula, 1.25x Dexterity => 1.5x damage, 1.5x Dexterity => 2x damage, 1.75x Dexterity => 2.5x damage.  If you plug in these ratios into that last factor, you get the exact same damage increases, creating a very close analog.  In addition, we can impose a minimum on that factor and just set it to 1 if A.Willpower < D.Willpower, which also happens in the physical formula.  If we don't, then magic damage tinks if A.Willpower <= D.Willpower / 2, which is probably a bad thing.

While this does make the magic formula very similar to the physical formula, it does have the issue of adding that extra Willpower stat that... may be a little extraneous.  If we do put a min cap on it, then it does serve an actual purpose, though.

Also there's:

(5) Damage = Intelligence / Spirit * Power - Spirit / Intelligence * Magic_Defense

Makes all stats important, but is pretty nonstandard.  I'm really not expecting this to get any backing.

Anyways, those were the ideas I came up with, both good and bad.  A bit wall of texty, but I tried to separate paragraphs enough to make it flow better.  If nothing else, hopefully this'll give someone else a new better idea or an idea on how to modify one of these to work better.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: <Untitled IAQ Project>: Round 3: Wherein Attack=((((Y/Z)^M)*T)+R)/0...
« Reply #67 on: January 29, 2010, 09:58:02 PM »
I like (3). While quadratic Intelligence makes it a potent stat, it's acceptable if we keep the multiplier on it lowish and ensure that spell power goes up more slowly than weapon power. Note that (1) would also work if we had spells upgrade (either in a XS1-like fashion or MK2-like fashion depending on the character... other options may also exist), but yeah, if you want Fire Blast to be useful both at the 30% mark of the game and the 90%, then (3) becomes necessary. This depends on how people see spell progression.

I'm a little iffy on Willpower. Mechanically it is fine, being an adjusted copy of the physical. The problem is that Willpower and Int are both doing practically the same thing offensively, they both add a multiplier to your attack. The reason we get away with this with Strength/Dex is because (a) the flavour and (b) the fact that Dex works differently with different weapons. Neither seems to transfer over to the magical side.


Andy: Stats we're looking at so far appear to be: [all of these subject to renaming]

Strength: Increases damage caused with physical blows
Dexterity: Allows the character's physical attacks to strike multiple times, and prevents foes from striking multiple times against the character
Speed: Increases the frequency at which a character gets turns
Vitality: Decreases physical damage taken (optional stat, could be replaced entirely with phys. elemental resist)
Intelligence: Increases damage caused with magic
Spirit: Decreases magical damage taken
Willpower: Proposed stat that would be the magical analog of Dexterity
Accuracy: Increased chance to land physical blows.
Evasion: Increased chance to avoid enemy attacks. By the way, we still need an accuracy formula.
Move: Number of spaces the character can move in a turn.
Critical: Innate difference in crit rate between characters. I am opposed to this and think it is clutter which could easily be handled entirely at the weapon/skill level.
[Magic Acc/Eva: Not really discussed to this point, but may end up existing too.]
HP: Hippopressor points.
MP: To power those short-term moves. I am in favour of this regenerating for most characters, though everyone can play differently. Not every character may use this.

Hmm. Assuming only two of MAcc, MEva, Crit, and Willpower survive we're at 13 personal stats (values that need to be defined entirely in terms of the PC). That's a lot. More than almost any other RPG uses, and more than I'd like. This makes me want to make all four of those stats not personal. Crit I've already gone over, Willpower does feel a bit extraneous... MAcc and MEva just don't need to be personal to me, same as crit? Granted, I see magic being pretty reliable for accuracy except against specially-designed anti-magic shields, accessories, and maybe some skills... basically handling it the way, say, FFT does.

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Re: <Untitled IAQ Project>: Round 3: Wherein Attack=((((Y/Z)^M)*T)+R)/0...
« Reply #68 on: January 29, 2010, 10:38:31 PM »
Accuracy formula, as I think I submitted before is as such:

Hit rate = ((ACC+move/weapon base)-(EVA+50))%.  The constant could be changed to something else if you see that as desirable.
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Re: <Untitled IAQ Project>: Round 3: Wherein Attack=((((Y/Z)^M)*T)+R)/0...
« Reply #69 on: January 30, 2010, 01:25:57 AM »
I like (3). While quadratic Intelligence makes it a potent stat, it's acceptable if we keep the multiplier on it lowish and ensure that spell power goes up more slowly than weapon power. Note that (1) would also work if we had spells upgrade (either in a XS1-like fashion or MK2-like fashion depending on the character... other options may also exist), but yeah, if you want Fire Blast to be useful both at the 30% mark of the game and the 90%, then (3) becomes necessary. This depends on how people see spell progression.

Hm, didn't think about spell power upgrading, but I don't think that's right for our game.  And yeah, Intelligence is quadratic, but I was thinking of making Intelligence*A relatively small in comparison to Power.

I'm a little iffy on Willpower. Mechanically it is fine, being an adjusted copy of the physical. The problem is that Willpower and Int are both doing practically the same thing offensively, they both add a multiplier to your attack. The reason we get away with this with Strength/Dex is because (a) the flavour and (b) the fact that Dex works differently with different weapons. Neither seems to transfer over to the magical side.

Right, I wasn't really expecting it to work out, it was mostly just the only way I could think of to make a decent analog.  Threw it out there hoping someone would get an idea on how to modify it into something that works better.

Andy: Stats we're looking at so far appear to be: [all of these subject to renaming]

Strength: Increases damage caused with physical blows
Dexterity: Allows the character's physical attacks to strike multiple times, and prevents foes from striking multiple times against the character
Speed: Increases the frequency at which a character gets turns
Vitality: Decreases physical damage taken (optional stat, could be replaced entirely with phys. elemental resist)
Intelligence: Increases damage caused with magic
Spirit: Decreases magical damage taken
Willpower: Proposed stat that would be the magical analog of Dexterity
Accuracy: Increased chance to land physical blows.
Evasion: Increased chance to avoid enemy attacks. By the way, we still need an accuracy formula.
Move: Number of spaces the character can move in a turn.
Critical: Innate difference in crit rate between characters. I am opposed to this and think it is clutter which could easily be handled entirely at the weapon/skill level.
[Magic Acc/Eva: Not really discussed to this point, but may end up existing too.]
HP: Hippopressor points.
MP: To power those short-term moves. I am in favour of this regenerating for most characters, though everyone can play differently. Not every character may use this.

Hmm. Assuming only two of MAcc, MEva, Crit, and Willpower survive we're at 13 personal stats (values that need to be defined entirely in terms of the PC). That's a lot. More than almost any other RPG uses, and more than I'd like. This makes me want to make all four of those stats not personal. Crit I've already gone over, Willpower does feel a bit extraneous... MAcc and MEva just don't need to be personal to me, same as crit? Granted, I see magic being pretty reliable for accuracy except against specially-designed anti-magic shields, accessories, and maybe some skills... basically handling it the way, say, FFT does.

Looking at the list:

HP, MP, Strength, Dexterity, Vitality, Intelligence, Spirit, Speed (, Willpower) - Core stats.  These increase on levelup.
Accuracy, Evasion, Magic Accuracy, Magic Evasion, Critical, Move -  Constant stats.  Don't increase on level up.  Modified by equipment (rarely in the case of Move).
Attack, Defense, Magic Defense - Depend solely on equipment.

If we organize the stat screen by grouping these things together, it would look much less cluttered.  Honestly I don't think it'll be a problem?

Hmm, actually, thinking on it, I think we should shift Critical to only depend on equipment (and skill).  In addition, magic spells should have crit rates as well (I've always been annoyed by magic not being able to crit).

Accuracy formula, as I think I submitted before is as such:

Hit rate = ((ACC+move/weapon base)-(EVA+50))%.  The constant could be changed to something else if you see that as desirable.

Constant is completely pointless.  Just decrease everything's accuracy by 50 and you have the same thing.

Sir Donald 3.2

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Re: <Untitled IAQ Project>: Round 3: Wherein Attack=((((Y/Z)^M)*T)+R)/0...
« Reply #70 on: January 30, 2010, 02:04:10 AM »
Agree with having different Accuracy, Evade, and Crit rates for Magic vs Physical. 

The real place where Willpower takes effect is on Status Spells.  Higher Willpower = More Chances of landing the Status.  Up to you guys to see whether it's something to have.  We can always modify Offensive Spell power to compensate.

When we were deriving useful stats from a core base, I had a separate column for MP and non-Magic Ability points (call them PP for now).  I'm still in favor of such a split, especially if we have people who can use both magic and physical skills.  At the very least, it would allow for different recharge rates for the two types of attacks in the case of Resonance Magic and some physicals.

I'm not keen on Accuracy, Evasion, Critical, or their Magical Equivalents not being allowed to increase on Level up.  Increases in these rates throughout the game should reflect (to some degree) the growth of the character.  Now, how much should they grow?  Probably 1 point every 2-4 levels based on the person's "build".

Heck, I'm thinking that the Critical rates should be derived Stats based on Accuracy and both Dexterities, and possibly opponent's Evade (along with the Magical Equivalents)  The logic here is that Critical hits are depicted as hitting an enemy's weak spot.  Accuracy is tracking down the enemy, Dexterity is the swiftness of the strike.  To me it follows that a keen eye would spot a chink in armor and a swift hand would guide the blade towards it.  Opponent's Dexterity+Evade would represent getting out of the way; Dexterity is involved here because if the opponent has to take the hit, at least shield the weak spot.

AndrewRogue

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Re: <Untitled IAQ Project>: Round 3: Wherein Attack=((((Y/Z)^M)*T)+R)/0...
« Reply #71 on: February 02, 2010, 06:43:04 AM »
Huzzah. We are back in action. Gonna leave this up for a few more days, then open a topic for starting PC design.

EDIT: Maybe less then a few days, since we seem to have some generalized agreement, or, at least, no major disagreement on the equations. However, I would like a confirmed stat list before we start doing PCs, so...

Any issues with Tal's list (as presented:

Quote
Looking at the list:

HP, MP, Strength, Dexterity, Vitality, Intelligence, Spirit, Speed- Core stats.  These increase on levelup.
Accuracy, Evasion, Magic Accuracy, Magic Evasion, Critical, Move -  Constant stats.  Don't increase on level up.  Modified by equipment (rarely in the case of Move).
Attack, Defense, Magic Defense - Depend solely on equipment.

If we organize the stat screen by grouping these things together, it would look much less cluttered.  Honestly I don't think it'll be a problem?

Hmm, actually, thinking on it, I think we should shift Critical to only depend on equipment (and skill).  In addition, magic spells should have crit rates as well (I've always been annoyed by magic not being able to crit).


I think it works. If I don't see any major disagreement, I'll open up the new round, since we have workable, major equations and such. So if there are any major disagreements, get them in there.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2010, 05:34:27 PM by AndrewRogue »