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Author Topic: Rank the duellers: Persona 4 bosses and Wild Arms XF  (Read 6620 times)

Dark Holy Elf

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Rank the duellers: Persona 4 bosses and Wild Arms XF
« on: January 29, 2010, 05:57:48 AM »
Well, this is it. Time to rank the DL's newest entrants Light, Middle, Heavy, or Godlike. See previous topics for details; ask any questions if needed.

Feel free to assign DNR (Do Not Rank) if you don't think someone should be ranked from a particular game.

Voting closes on Thursday, February 4, at the same time that the DL itself does (9:00 Pacific).

There are spoilers in this topic. Like every other ranking topic. We don't use codenames here.

Ranking values:

Godlike = 5.0
Low Godlike = 4.75
Heavy/Godlike = 4.5
High Heavy = 4.25
Heavy = 4.0
Middle/Heavy (or Low Heavy) = 3.75
High Middle = 3.5
Middle = 3.25
Light/Middle (or Low Middle) = 3.0
High Light = 2.75
Light = 2.5
Low Light = 2.0
Puny/Light = 1.5
Puny = 1.0


Persona 4

Tohru Adachi
Mitsuo Kubo
Taro Namatame

Wild Arms XF

Alexia Lynn Elesius
Charlton Blunt
Chelle
Clarissa Arwin
Felius Arwin
Labyrinthia Wordsworth
Levin Brenton
Ragnar Blitz Lebrett
Rupert Dandridge
Tony
Weisheit
« Last Edit: January 29, 2010, 06:01:37 AM by Dark Holy Elf »

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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Rank the duellers: Persona 4 bosses and Wild Arms XF
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2010, 06:56:33 AM »
Tentative. Need to figure out exactly how my views on equips affect the cast. I definitely don't consider +8 weapons, though... probably +6?

Wild Arms XF

Alexia Lynn Elesius: 3.5. She 2HKOs and does it quickly thanks to first strike, but dislikes long battles due to raw speed and Status Lock is often a turn she can't afford.
Charlton Blunt: 4.5. Solid durability, nasty limit damage, and some good status options on his attacks.
Chelle: 4.9? Don't see much as immune to knockback, just enemies who have an equivalent skill or are rooted in place, given that you can shove around giant golems, tarrasques, and sand worms often as not.
Clarissa Arwin: 4.5. She has spoilers. But fundamentally she has a murderous damage turn off good speed. If she goes first.
Felius Arwin: 3.2. Not much to say here.
Labyrinthia Wordsworth: 2.2. Not impressed at all. Slow elemental 2HKO off bad durability. The 2HKO isn't even a good one.
Levin Brenton: 4.2. I don't see accuracy much lower than the stat topic... about 9% or so? It's enough to hose Cancel Strike as a strategy pretty badly against anyone with noteworthy Evade or Speed.
Ragnar Blitz Lebrett: 3.8. Offence could be better, but he's good at spoiling both evadable and melee. :(
Rupert Dandridge: 4.7. Maximum Risk is sick, but spoilable, and the accuracy probably costs him a win or two.
Tony: 1.8
Weisheit: 4.8 Ends up as just below average speed + overkill. With decent durability.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2010, 06:01:04 PM by Dark Holy Elf »

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Cmdr_King

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Re: Rank the duellers: Persona 4 bosses and Wild Arms XF
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2010, 07:21:13 AM »
Persona 4

Tohru Adachi- 3.55  Not bad, I suppose, but not good either.
Mitsuo Kubo- 4.55  Solid.
Taro Namatame- DNR.

Wild Arms XF

Alexia Lynn Elesius- 3.75  Just feels generally borderline.  Anti-spoiler goodness.
Charlton Blunt- 4.55  Juuuust makes it.  I think.
Chelle- 4.8  Sure.
Clarissa Arwin- 4.4
Felius Arwin- 3.4
Labyrinthia Wordsworth- 2.3
Levin Brenton- 4.7
Ragnar Blitz Lebrett- 4.1
Rupert Dandridge- 4.7
Tony- 1.8
Weisheit- 4.7
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Dhyerwolf

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Re: Rank the duellers: Persona 4 bosses and Wild Arms XF
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2010, 08:35:16 AM »
Adachi- 3.9. Low Heavy.
Mitsuo- 4.7? Or something? The package is a lowish Godlike
Namatame- 4.75. 4 PC Durability and that evil 75% HP limit? This works

Copy/Paste from Contenders with a few extra numerical clarifications
Clarissa- 4.4. Wish I had the old notes of where these numbers fell. Well, I see the first Sacrifice doing about 1 PC HP (as opposed to the 0.75ish of something it was before?). Second does 0.5. So, 1.5 PC HP damage to most slower PCs (Aka, most PCs) now means that PCs are dying unless they are Ness. A few select bosses scare her as does uh...Maya. Champ powered.

Felius- 3.25. Same as wherever he was before (3.25ish?). Damage is worse, but then ITE option looks better. Probably not enough of a change for much of a movement.

Labyrinthia- 2.6! Climbing up. Now has a slow low 2HKO, but better than the slow averagish 3HKO! Still sucks though, because uh...speed+durability combo.

Tony- 2. Oh right, know how I specifically mentioned I saw Clarissa's damage as better than the topic? I see Tony's...well, arguably near everything as worse. Whatever he was, cut off -.15 or -.2, and he was already 2.2ish or something? Puny who can't even spoil elemental mages unless they are like Nara.

Levin- 4.55. Thinking he was 4.65 before. Anyways, Turn Cancel is worse off the new view, but at the same time, think the general combos he can throw together are really potent (Says something that I thought about whether he can the muscle to take down Ulti's HP, even if part of that was her speed). Could be overrating him now though.

Ragnar- 3.9ish. Still a low Heavy. Hyper Attack looks a bit better, which is awesome.

Alexia- 3.55. Fairly sure she was 3.5 before. Anyways, great accuracy means the 2HKO is better!

Rupert- 5. Tanky, fast, damaging as hell at the end
Chelle- 4.6. Respect lowered some thanks to anti-move stuff, but still a low Godlike
Charlton- 4.75. Sure
Weisheit- 4.75
...into the nightfall.

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Re: Rank the duellers: Persona 4 bosses and Wild Arms XF
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2010, 11:25:09 AM »
Tohru "Bored Sociopath" Adachi - 4.2113 - Actually better than he looks at first glance.  Heat Riser - Power Charge - Atom Smasher blows things apart on average, and works as a healer-buster too (though slow).  Heat Riser provides better survivability (he's not that undurable, although he could be better).  The physical resistance is awesome.  Instant death is great (it missed one time out of 5 on my all-girl party...I need to check it again, I guess), and Fear+Ghastly Wail is nice.  The durability could be better - if he had 6000 HP, he'd be stronger, but he's good right now - Vorpal Blade 2-shots after that Heat Riser, and against physical fighters, that's all he needs.  Back-up elemental is helpful too.  Gets better if you don't hold him to this Power Charge-Atom Smasher pattern, or the forced Heat Riser.  

Mitsuo "Baby Fetus" Kubo - 4.88334 - Even taken as harsh as possible, that first form probably still has average HP to most.  Bomb ruins a lot of people by draining their resources (he'd KILL for this to be enervate, but...what can you do), and the damage itself is solid.  The second form is...interesting.  The elemental damage sucks, but hey, solid almighty, and can make the Fear-Ghastly Wail combo too!  Also, rebuilding the shell is...highly possible.  And elongates the battle a lot.  A resource drain for most, especially since he has resistance to physicals and almighty, meaning he's best fought by elemental fighters...which he can resist with a Wall in the second form.  

Taro "Hippie Jesus" Namatame - 4.8944451 - Yeah.  Unless you take levels at like 70 (I see that as unlikely - Heaven doesn't give great experience at all - taking Adachi at higher levels makes more sense, as Magatsu has the highest experience gains in the game, even when you're above their level by a lot, even better than the final dungeon), he's good.  The durability is great (2-3x for most normal people or so, I think?), which lets him use Quad Converge - this means his elemental attacks kill in a single hit to most (450 damage to 420 HP), and he reduces all but one of those elements to basically nothing.  Considering how uncommon wind is as an element, this is 99% of the time his ideal element.  Granted, the Control phases could be...arguably useful - he might just be stuck with his first phase stuff here.  Unerring Justice works as a finisher, at least.  He also has the Breaks, and SP draining.  This makes him far, far better - needs to kill a healer?  Nuke the SP, done.  Very strong overall, despite what you'd expect from a Delivery Man >_>

Alexia Lynn Elesius - 3.449 - Bleh.  Her damage is better than I thought it was, though she's still slow (initiative helps).  Her other skills are...of questionable use.  I seem to think that anyone with status can probably guard through her status immunity time, or just beat the hell out of her instead.  Her durability is ok, at least.  Bleh.

Charlton Blunt - 4.711111111 - Fast, Dark Destruction is good, and he breaks physical immunes with BOOK elemental damage.  Energy Drain is decent enough as back-up.  Durabilty is decent enough. Strong overall, though you'd never realize this in-game >_>

Chelle - 4.711111111 - About the same as Charlton.  She's not as fast, less durable, and has no variety, but her damage is better by a lot, so...

Clarissa Arwin - 3.8438 - Man, she hates turn-based conversions.  A lot.  She's also kind of frail, too.  Nonetheless, Rob Turn is good enough to ensure she gets some actions off.  God help her if she gets hit first - she's kind of frail, and not so fast she will constantly get a chance to do this (and her damage isn't great without Sacrifice)

Felius Arwin - 3.366 - A lot better than I used to think.  Physically durable, not too slow, and Disarm is relatively winning.  Damage is also solid.  Really straightforward, but a lot better than he looks at first glance.

Labyrintha Woodsworth - 2.777 - Lightning is void-aligned to me. NULLS JOGURT DAMAGE!!!  Otherwise, kind of slow, damage is good, Attack and Aim Down is awesome, Weapon Block may help, but...durability is not good (could be worse, at least).

Levin Brenton - 4.477 - Mmm...durability is relatively close to average, speed is great, Cancel Strike is good and not innaccurate (better than Rob Turn overall, to me, and running of Levin's better offense and speed), and he has magical back-up that's decent.  Good damage, too!

Ragnar Blitz Lebrett - 4.4999999999 - Uh...yeah.  Awesome damage, but the mini-Predator Barrage, also used as a counter, with Hyper Attack, awesome evasion, good durability, good speed...yeah.  Pretty awesome, and probably the best overall fighter in the non-boss cast.

Rupert Drandridge - 4.5666 - Mmm...not as super fast as you'd think at first glance.  Maximum Risk is good, though his durability is relatively ok (on par with Chelle) only, and his accuracy is pretty crappy.  A decent Godlike, probably.

Tony - 2.555 - Doglike

Weisheit - 4.88997766 - Fast as sin, durability is...worse than Charlton, but could be worse.  His damage is brutal, otherwise, and he can get it off.  Really good.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2010, 11:47:41 PM by OblivionKnight »
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superaielman

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Re: Rank the duellers: Persona 4 bosses and Wild Arms XF
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2010, 12:06:47 PM »
*Smacks OK*


Persona 4

Tohru Adachi- Middle/Heavy. Heat Riser/two types of ID/excellent physical durability. Adachi covers his bases very well.
Mitsuo Kubo- Heavy/Godlike. I think.
Taro Namatame- Abstain.

Wild Arms XF

Alexia Lynn Elesius- Middle. Feels too easy to spoil? I donno.
Charlton- Heavy/Godlike. Busts healers and has moveblock, which is nice. Draining and the speed keeps him alive otherwise, I guess.
Chelle- Heavy/Godlike- Nice offense, but no way do I give her credit for double Predator Barrage. I peg her damage around 400 damage a turn, which is still pretty damn good! Don't know which/if any bosses I'd see immune to the knockback, so kneejerking the lower rank for now.
Clarissa Arwin- Heavy/Godlike. I think she falls solidly on the Heavy side of the border, but yeah. She's good.
Felius Arwin- Low Middle. He's okay.
Labyrinthia Wordsworth- Light. Evasion after accuracy bust=good. Durability=not good.
Levin Brenton- Heavy/Godlike.  Just hard to wall.
Ragnar Blitz Lebrett- Heavy. Die horribly Ragnar.
Rupert- Heavy/Godlike. Too easy to OHKO him in Godlike and evasion gives him some difficultly. Maximum Risk keeps him afloat in the division.
Tony- Puny. Just bad.
Weisheit- Low Godlike. Slowish OHKO works. There are enough who can tank it or smash his face in to prevent it from really dominating, but it's still good.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2010, 12:28:37 PM by superaielman »
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Rozalia

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Re: Rank the duellers: Persona 4 bosses and Wild Arms XF
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2010, 01:33:23 PM »
Persona 4

Tohru Adachi 4.0. - Having to spend a turn to make your damage semi good isn't great, especially when you're not much on hp. ID is effective though so he isn't too bad.  
Mitsuo Kubo 4.5. Good defence backed by massive hp which gets larger if your damage sucks. Sadly for him Godlike is full of OHKO monsters so h is merely an alright godlike.  
Taro Namatame - 5.0. Needs to feature in a team match thats for sure. The elemental thing makes him deadly and theres a lot of people with elemental weaknesses he can exploit.

Wild Arms XF

Alexia Lynn Elesius 3.5 - Speed fails hard and the damage isn't even that great. Status lock saves he from the status ball fighters in middle.
Charlton Blunt - 4.75 - Can take on FE casts by himself with that badass range. Good damage, status and hp with a pinch of spoiling everyone in a SRPG.
Chelle - 5.0 - Decent damage even if it all is a little boring. Her very meaty monster can tank for her if the smuck she's facing doesn't have mt I guess.
Clarissa Arwin - 4.0 - Needs to optain some hp. Spoils slow guys but most of them wouldn't handle the damage anyway so its moot.
Felius Arwin - 3.25 - Skillset is near useless and just has poor stats.
Labyrinthia Wordsworth - 2.5 - Bad stats but makes a decent light.
Levin Brenton - 5.0 - Godlike has a lot of hp and damage monsters who are all very very slow. Levin beats all of them.
Ragnar Blitz Lebrett - 3.5 - Never used his skillset much but it didn't seem very good.
Rupert Dandridge 5.0 - Never saw the accuracy problems people say he has except on his field move but why would he use that anyway.
Tony - 2.0 - Is still Awesome.
Weisheit - 4.0 - I'm not a fan of moves that have charge times especially turn long ones.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2010, 03:49:35 PM by Rozalia »

Ultradude

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Re: Rank the duellers: Persona 4 bosses and Wild Arms XF
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2010, 02:56:55 PM »
Persona 4

Tohru Adachi - Abstain *runs off to finish the damned game*
Mitsuo Kubo - 4.6 - Pain. In. The. Ass. If your damage isn't up to snuff. If you can OHKO the shell, a lot easier.
Taro Namatame - 5.0 - Quad Converge, HP, Dispel, SP drain. Dunno how to take the Control skills, but it often doesn't matter, and Unerring Justice is still pretty mean.
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Re: Rank the duellers: Persona 4 bosses and Wild Arms XF
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2010, 03:12:19 PM »
Tohru Adachi - 3.5. High Middle, not buying Heavy tho; way too frail if you're not landing into a resistance or immunity to justify slugging it out up there.
Quote
Mitsuo Kubo - 4.6 - Pain. In. The. Ass. If your damage isn't up to snuff. If you can OHKO the shell, a lot easier.
Taro Namatame - 5.0 - Quad Converge, HP, Dispel, SP drain. Dunno how to take the Control skills, but it often doesn't matter, and Unerring Justice is still pretty mean.
Though Control flat-out fails on one person in game, Ultradude.


Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Rank the duellers: Persona 4 bosses and Wild Arms XF
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2010, 03:30:40 PM »
Persona 4

Tohru Adachi - 3.4 Middle. The physical spoiling and ID are quite nice. Always going last in the first turn and having like 0.7x PC HP alongside 4HKO damage unless he buffs? Less nice.
Mitsuo Kubo - 4.8 Godlike. The durability, particularly once you realize you have to chop through two bars of HP, is quite impressive. The tricks also have their place, and if you get to see Gigadyne, you're sorta in trouble. In the other hand, the baby form is... uh... pretty bad at slugfesting. And giving up the first turn is always a bit of a problem, if not that much of one to him in particular given how he works.
Taro Namatame - 4.2 Heavy. Okay, so he's durable. However, he: doesn't come even particularly close to OHKOing average even after Quad Converge (2.5x damage? He 4HKOs with his Dynes in a vacuum. 75% PC HP is a pretty good 2HKO, but still being elementally wallable, if hard to do due to four elements of the same strength, and having both a windup turn and a low duration, are -killer- in a slugfest and basically screw over any pressure he might be able to muster long-term), and that's a limit. 75% HP phase limit, but still, and he loses that after he reaches 25% HP. He has the typical P4 boss issue of going last in the first turn. Quad Converge takes a turn and only lasts three. In Godlike, there's a lot of people who are just ripping most of his guts out before he even gets to attack once with Quad Converge, and his quirks make him fail against the likes of Heavy healers. People like Billy, Kyra, Artea, freaking Yulie and Lilka tear his ass a new one. Then, his 25% HP limit is one of the worst DL limits ever given the threshold it unlocks at: Unerring Justice's evadable (okay, so only against magic) 3HKO and a 3HKO MP draining move aren't scaring anyone. The modest evade isn't really helping that much either.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2010, 03:43:33 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
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Glen Veil

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Re: Rank the duellers: Persona 4 bosses and Wild Arms XF
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2010, 04:10:49 PM »
Alexia Lynn Elesius-3.25  Initiative is cool, status lock is neat, damage is decent, but that speed is so terrible.  Status lock wearing off in such a way that she'll be vulnerable inbetween when she has to reapply it is not so hot either, and has major trouble with healers she doesn't OHKO.
Charlton Blunt- 4.75  eh
Chelle - 5.0  outright kills you if you don't spoil physicals or are immune to knockback.
Clarissa Arwin - 4.5 kills you if you're slower, dies if you're faster pretty much, would be better if her damage didn't depend so much on her hp, doesn't like durable people that can outlast her blitz.
Felius Arwin -3.25 boring middle
Labyrinthia Wordsworth - 2.75 Slow and physically frail, but has tricks in attack+aim down and Distortion, I'm willing to bet that distortion alone beats alot of light, she wishes her hp was better so she could make even better use of it.
Levin Brenton - 4.75 Speed + Cancel Strike is brutal, he's so fast he doesn't care about the occasional miss on most duelers, and he probably will be able to weave in blasts to up his damage further, his one main weakness is mostly  respectable evasion and counters, both of which pretty much wreck his game.
Ragnar Blitz Lebrett - 4.0 Awesome HP, great damage against melee fighters not immune to knockback, still decent damage otherwise, also has great evasion and a brutal counter vs melee. Would probably spoil Levin!
Rupert Dandridge - 4.85 Solid fighter with a brutal limit, his attacks can miss yeah, but I generally mostly only saw that after hitting him with the brutal debuff that is Debilitator, so it's probably not enough to make a difference in most duels, kill him quick or eat brutal brutal overkill.
Tony-2 Dog
Weisheit - 4.75  Brutal overkill in potentially unspoilable damage off of just barely below average speed once the charge turn is factored in.  Generally see this as unavoidable since the effective range is so great unless you hold him to the final map that cripples his movement/targeting.

Yoshiken

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Re: Rank the duellers: Persona 4 bosses and Wild Arms XF
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2010, 04:56:33 PM »
Adachi - 3.75. Low Heavy. The physical spoiling makes his terrible durability better in practice, and the 2-turn ID through ID immunity makes him evil for PCs. Heat Riser is still one of the best buffs around, and it makes his damage passable enough.
Mitsuo - 4.5. High Heavy/Low Godlike. Solid damage, some useful status and, once the shell's broken, the same 2-turn ID through ID immunity that Adachi has. Problem is, that means not rebuilding the shell, and that leaves him vulnerable. Durability would kinda suck if the shell wasn't there.
Namatame - 4.75. Quad Converge bordered on a OHKO to average for me, but the elemental walling it provides is just insane. Unerring Justice is a 2HKO to me, and that's after scaling for my low levels. Would be much lower if it weren't for the elemental spoiling on a high limit with good durability.

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Re: Rank the duellers: Persona 4 bosses and Wild Arms XF
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2010, 05:51:21 PM »
Persona 4

Tohru Adachi - High Middle
Mitsuo Kubo - Heavy/Godlike
Taro Namatame - Heavy/Godlike
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Re: Rank the duellers: Persona 4 bosses and Wild Arms XF
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2010, 06:02:22 PM »

Persona 4

Tohru Adachi - 3.4
Mitsuo Kubo - 4.7
Taro Namatame - 4.35

Wild Arms XF

Alexia Lynn Elesius - 3.55
Charlton Blunt - 4.4
Chelle - 4.85
Clarissa Arwin - 4.45
Felius Arwin - 3.05
Labyrinthia Wordsworth - 2.6
Levin Brenton - 4.45
Ragnar Blitz Lebrett - 3.9
Rupert Dandridge - 4.6
Tony - 2.2
Weisheit - 4.8
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OblivionKnight

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Re: Rank the duellers: Persona 4 bosses and Wild Arms XF
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2010, 06:07:06 PM »
Persona 4

Tohru Adachi - 3.4 Middle. The physical spoiling and ID are quite nice. Always going last in the first turn and having like 0.7x PC HP alongside 4HKO damage unless he buffs? Less nice.
Mitsuo Kubo - 4.8 Godlike. The durability, particularly once you realize you have to chop through two bars of HP, is quite impressive. The tricks also have their place, and if you get to see Gigadyne, you're sorta in trouble. In the other hand, the baby form is... uh... pretty bad at slugfesting. And giving up the first turn is always a bit of a problem, if not that much of one to him in particular given how he works.
Taro Namatame - 4.2 Heavy. Okay, so he's durable. However, he: doesn't come even particularly close to OHKOing average even after Quad Converge (2.5x damage? He 4HKOs with his Dynes in a vacuum. 75% PC HP is a pretty good 2HKO, but still being elementally wallable, if hard to do due to four elements of the same strength, and having both a windup turn and a low duration, are -killer- in a slugfest and basically screw over any pressure he might be able to muster long-term), and that's a limit. 75% HP phase limit, but still, and he loses that after he reaches 25% HP. He has the typical P4 boss issue of going last in the first turn. Quad Converge takes a turn and only lasts three. In Godlike, there's a lot of people who are just ripping most of his guts out before he even gets to attack once with Quad Converge, and his quirks make him fail against the likes of Heavy healers. People like Billy, Kyra, Artea, freaking Yulie and Lilka tear his ass a new one. Then, his 25% HP limit is one of the worst DL limits ever given the threshold it unlocks at: Unerring Justice's evadable (okay, so only against magic) 3HKO and a 3HKO MP draining move aren't scaring anyone. The modest evade isn't really helping that much either.

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[11:53] <+Meeple_Gorath> me reading, that's a good one

[19:26] * +Terra_Condor looks up. Star Wars Football, what?
[19:27] <+Terra_Condor> Han Kicks First?
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Vader intercepts.
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Touchdown and Alderaan explodes in the victory

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Rank the duellers: Persona 4 bosses and Wild Arms XF
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2010, 06:44:30 PM »
L63-5. My party average for Namatame was 64 (Naoto was 65, she joins slightly overlevelled), and given how I ended the Time-Space Lab (not the revisit, but after beating Shadow Naoto) at L55 (Naoto joining at L56) and levels in P4 raise pretty damned fast, yeah.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

SnowFire

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Re: Rank the duellers: Persona 4 bosses and Wild Arms XF
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2010, 11:35:07 PM »
Wild Arms XF

Alexia Lynn Elesius - Middle.
Clarissa Arwin - High Heavy.  The fact that she can get a triple Sacrifice off more reliably than I thought makes her pretty dangerous.  Inclined to let Rob Turn work on some bosses, too.
Felius Arwin - Middle.
Labyrinthia Wordsworth - Low Light.  About as bad as a "serious" duelist can be, really.  Obviously beats joke duelers like Gobi and Ramus but has some interesting matches that merit thought against real lights, all of which she then proceeds to lose.

Levin Brenton - Low Godlike.  146% CTB speed, folks. He beats up plenty of Godlike even with a slightly more pessimistic view of his accuracy than the stat topic thanks to the ridiculous speed.  Heck, he's got an argument against Fou-Lu; I only cap Fou-Lu's bad speed at 80% avg., so Levin's doing better than a 7:4 here on the turn split.  Say a Cancel Strike misses (this is harsher than the 87% acc. in the stat topic, 80%), so 5 Cancel Strikes + 2 Gravitons (Fou is vulnerable to Gravity IIRC).  He's got enough MP to do this all over again with ~50 MP remaining from the levels used in the stat topic.  Then finish up with some Rushing Beats.  4 Gravitons + 3 Rushing Beats + a bunch of Cancel Strikes kill Fou?  Dunno but it's close enough to think about, and it's even better for those who let Fou be slower.

RAGNAR BLITZ LEBRETT! - Light.  Come on, calling the blonde Nordic strongman Ragnar and tossing "blitz" in?  Can you lay it on any thicker?  Beats out crap like Yeligar the Yellow Gigas or Proud Clod but has a 50/50 record at best even in Light.

Ragnar -  Low Heavy, much as he hates it.  Middle is too PC-dominated and gives Ragnar too many opportunities to get off a Raving Rage or bust through healers, but he's not really doing well in Heavy where I'd see Anti-Knockback as far more common and Ragnar can't afford time to buff himself.

Tony - Puny/Light.

On bosses, I think the fairest resolution to the discussion from before was go off what Pyro suggested and see Cancel Strikes as basically a really big damage buff.  Of course, even without that, there's all the actual damage buffs that exist in game, so yeah, probably not going to see XF boss HP as too high.

Charlton Blunt - Middle.  Reminds me of Rashidi a bit; if he had more HP to my view, he'd be awesome, but he doesn't, so he can't really play his drain game effectively.

Chelle - DNR.  And no rank from me because if people do generally give her double Predator Strikes she shouldn't be anywhere near Heavy even if I disagree.  Sure it's weird that they left Anti-Knockback off the sandworm but you can't shove around random dudes with swords or Necromancers or the Final Boss.  I do give Chelle HP credit for her fairly large support base so moderate tankiness + barely a 2HKO means she's okay at least.

Rupert Dandridge - Godlike.  I never saw Speed Fang miss (though it probably can?) and that's fine damage at least even if Maximum Risk might get evaded.  Meanwhile with his awesome and relevant support?  Yeah he's got the HP to make OHKOing him far from trivial.

Weisheit - Low Heavy.  His final form is basically just a spoiler of the slow and those with bad MOV.  I definitely don't let him have his Divider / Stab moves which no one has seen him use in that form.  But he can at least play Dalton-lite with his earlier forms, and slow duelers exist, so.

Pyro

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Re: Rank the duellers: Persona 4 bosses and Wild Arms XF
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2010, 11:36:21 PM »
What? I never said Cancel Strike as a damage buff. Cancel Strike is explicitly turn-cancelling. Like a status of some kind. That is not damage.

Now, the Turn-Shifting/Accelerating nonsense can be like a damage buff, since it increases your party damage output.

Persona 4

Tohru Adachi: 3.45 middle. Perhaps I was overlevelled, but I do remember him being as bad as Snow seems to think he is. Probably a little better on HP, though?
Mitsuo Kubo: 4.8 Godlike: Just a durable and punishing boss. So into Godlike he goes.
Taro Namatame: 4.6 Low Godlike. He is still elementally reliant, albeit not easily spoiled. Definitely see him as having good damage.

Wild Arms XF

Alexia Lynn Elesius: 3.3 Middle. Effectively has a fast and accurate 2HKO. But she is kind of boned in longer matches so she isn't that good. Status Lock isn't really effective given her speed.
Charlton Blunt: 4.6 Low Godlike. I will buy NEB hype.
Chelle: 5.0 Godlike. Smash. *Fast* Smash
Clarissa Arwin: 4.4 High Heavy. While she is a good at spoiling PCs, she loses to every boss ever pretty much.
Felius Arwin: 3.0 Low Middle. He does nothing special off of stats that are not inspiring.
Labyrinthia Wordsworth: 2.5 Light. She is pretty bad.
Levin Brenton: 4.1 Heavy. I think I will buy into NEB's +6 weapons hype, which nerfs his accuracy enough for this ranking. Hmm. Feels kind of wrong I suppose. I may think on this.
Ragnar Blitz Lebrett: 3.5 High Middle. With +6 weapons his accuracy tanks to the point where he can't hit two times in a row reliably. So this works.
Rupert Dandridge: 4.5 Heavy/Godlike. I know the damage is awesome when he has been smacked, but I don't know if I buy him being every bit as good as hyped speedwise and on durability.
Tony: 2.0 Low Light. Tony is pretty damn bad.
Weisheit: 4.9 Godlike. He is pretty much what NEB says he is, I guess. Maybe her durability isn't good, but still.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2010, 06:58:31 AM by Pyro »

SnowFire

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Re: Rank the duellers: Persona 4 bosses and Wild Arms XF
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2010, 11:41:32 PM »
Yes, I know that's not your view, sorry about being unclear.  Meant the general way to interpret things like Turn-Shifting / Haste / etc., just that I'll throw turn cancels in there as well.

Talaysen

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Re: Rank the duellers: Persona 4 bosses and Wild Arms XF
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2010, 12:06:04 AM »
Persona 4

Tohru Adachi - Heavy  - Hmm, his durability is much better than I thought (calcing up ~7 here, not sure if I respect it that much).  Went down quick in-game due to Debilitate, and I don't factor that in for bosses anymore.  Damage is pretty bad (woo 3HKO) and fairly inaccurate (Auto-Sukukaja), but Evil Smile -> Ghastly Wail can spoil some people.  Damage is MT at least.  Probably does better against PCs than bosses (unless they're not fully status immune) to me.  Also not a fan of ITD, as about half of his durability comes from defenses.
Mitsuo Kubo - Godlike - Likes me not scaling boss HP to #PCs (calcing ~6 for shell, ~17 for body, same caveat as above).  Damage is problematic (I see it higher than the stat topic, but still 3HKO, being MT still helps), but he has the Evil Smile -> Ghastly Wail combo.  PCs who can revive and heal don't really care too much, but other PCs tend to get screwed by it, or just outslugged by damage.  Shell building is durable enough to me to not be trivial to stop, especially against other bosses.
Taro Namatame - Godlike - Has good durability to me (calcing ~28.4).  Lets him get off the MT OHKOs from Quad Converge.  Control has a use to me, but not sure if it's worth using a turn in general.  Control All still fails.  Doesn't like ITD either.

Wild Arms XF

Alexia Lynn Elesius - High Middle - Barely 2HKOs average, but needs that 2HKO because she gets lapped before her third turn by average speed (>=98%).
Charlton Blunt - Heavy - ~5.85 PCHP, ~4.4 PCHP from support respect (separated because I could MT against the support portion).  Issue is he's all ST, so doesn't do well against PCs, and the zombies he summons are horrible.  Against bosses he gets a lot of use out of Energy Drain but still isn't all that great.  At least he's pretty fast.
Chelle - Low Godlike - ~4.25 PCHP, ~3 more from support or so?  All ST and that durability doesn't hold up long against PCs, but at least she OHKOs twice a round, and does it off of good speed, which is murderous against other bosses and shuts out PCs that can't slug through the HP fast enough (harder when you lose two people before you can act!).
Clarissa Arwin - Heavy - Sacrifice is only ~0.75 PCHP damage at max to me.
Felius Arwin - Light - 3HKO and no tricks.
Labyrinthia Wordsworth - High Light - High 3HKO, slow, not very durable.  However, Attack and AIM Down makes her evasion pretty insane and Revive actually has a use to me, so yeah.
Levin Brenton - Godlike - Cancel Strike is 92% accuracy to me.  Still gets owned by solid evade, but it's completely ridiculous against bosses.  Probably does have MP issues against the more durable ones, but weaving in Rushing Beats is probably pretty good.
Ragnar Blitz Lebrett - High Heavy - Rdiculous evasion, Raving Rage is great against melee fighters (or people he can double).  Damage is just a 3HKO without Raving Rage and he doesn't like magic much, though.
Rupert Dandridge - Godlike  - ~4.5 PCHP, ~3 more from support?  Does have MT, but it's pathetic until you knock out the support (read: spoils MT).  Maximum Risk is ridiculous against other bosses and puts some pressure on PCs.  Overall better at boss slugging than PC slugging to me.
Tony - Low Light - Crappy damage off of crappy accuracy and crappy durability.  SPOILS ELEMENTS THOUGH
Weisheit - Heavy - ~5.25 PCHP, ~3.5 more from support?  See the speed as lower (~175%), so the doubles for the overkill aren't coming up as often, but still pretty often.  Pretty much fails it up against PCs due to no MT and the overkill not being every turn but decent against other bosses.

dude789

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Re: Rank the duellers: Persona 4 bosses and Wild Arms XF
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2010, 12:15:38 AM »
Persona 4

Tohru Adachi: Heavy, not seeing the durability anti-hype so he's a solid slugger with good ID.
Mitsuo Kubo: Godlike, great durability and although his damage gets could be better, it gets the job done.
Taro Namatame: Godlike: Quad converge is a nasty trick and he has the durability to take advantage of it.

Wild Arms XF

Alexia Lynn Elesius: Middle, she really is saved by the initiative.
Charlton Blunt: Godlike, good 2HKO off of crazy speed.
Chelle: Godlike, Predator Barrage SMASH
Clarissa Arwin: Heavy, Sacrifice and Rob turn are a brutal combo is really good.
Felius Arwin: Middle, not much to say about him.
Labyrinthia Wordsworth: Light.
Levin Brenton High Heavy, Cancel Strike is nasty, but I don't think it's enough for godlike
Ragnar Blitz Lebrett: Heavy
Rupert Dandridge: Godlike
Tony: Puny, it's Tony.
Weisheit: Godlike

DjinnAndTonic

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Re: Rank the duellers: Persona 4 bosses and Wild Arms XF
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2010, 02:31:15 PM »
Persona 4

Mitsuo Kubo - Godlike - Likes me not scaling boss HP to #PCs (calcing ~6 for shell, ~17 for body, same caveat as above).  Damage is problematic (I see it higher than the stat topic, but still 3HKO, being MT still helps), but he has the Evil Smile -> Ghastly Wail combo.  PCs who can revive and heal don't really care too much, but other PCs tend to get screwed by it, or just outslugged by damage.  Shell building is durable enough to me to not be trivial to stop, especially against other bosses.

Labyrinthia Wordsworth - High Light - High 3HKO, slow, not very durable.  However, Attack and AIM Down makes her evasion pretty insane and Revive actually has a use to me, so yeah.


What's this revival nonsense?

Yoshiken

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Re: Rank the duellers: Persona 4 bosses and Wild Arms XF
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2010, 02:56:50 PM »
Tal's way of voting. When it's PC vs. Boss, he takes however many PCs the boss fights and duplicates the PC fighter (so, for example, if it were Mitsuo vs. a Ryu, it'd be unscaled Mitsuo vs. 4 Ryus to him, methinks.)
So yeah, PC revival and boss ST are both problematic.

Meeplelard

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Re: Rank the duellers: Persona 4 bosses and Wild Arms XF
« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2010, 06:04:32 PM »
Because I'm too lazy to analyze, I'll just copy someone else's ratings since I trust as someone who did the stat topic, they'd know stuff better than I do.

Quote
Wild Arms XF

Alexia Lynn Elesius: 3.5. She 2HKOs and does it quickly thanks to first strike, but dislikes long battles due to raw speed and Status Lock is often a turn she can't afford.
Charlton Blunt: 4.5. Solid durability, nasty limit damage, and some good status options on his attacks.
Chelle: 4.9? Don't see much as immune to knockback, just enemies who have an equivalent skill or are rooted in place, given that you can shove around giant golems, tarrasques, and sand worms often as not.
Clarissa Arwin: 4.5. She has spoilers. But fundamentally she has a murderous damage turn off good speed. If she goes first.
Felius Arwin: 3.2. Not much to say here.
Labyrinthia Wordsworth: 2.2. Not impressed at all. Slow elemental 2HKO off bad durability. The 2HKO isn't even a good one.
Levin Brenton: 4.2. I don't see accuracy much lower than the stat topic... about 9% or so? It's enough to hose Cancel Strike as a strategy pretty badly against anyone with noteworthy Evade or Speed.
Ragnar Blitz Lebrett: 3.8. Offence could be better, but he's good at spoiling both evadable and melee. Sad
Rupert Dandridge: 4.7. Maximum Risk is sick, but spoilable, and the accuracy probably costs him a win or two.
Tony: 1.8
Weisheit: 4.8 Ends up as just below average speed + overkill. With decent durability.

For P4 bosses, speaking from memory...

Adachi: Middle/Heavy.  I remember him being frail and unimpressive, and I didn't exactly twink the hell out of the game.
Mitsuo: Godlike.  yeah, remember him having some sort of tricks that would be a pain to deal with in a duel.
Namatame: Heavy.  I don't remember him being overly impressive, and being elementally reliant hurts, though he does have decent damage.
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

Luther Lansfeld

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Re: Rank the duellers: Persona 4 bosses and Wild Arms XF
« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2010, 06:05:07 PM »
Wild Arms XF

Alexia Lynn Elesius: Middle
Charlton Blunt: Low Godlike
Chelle: Heavy
Clarissa Arwin: Heavy/Godlike
Felius Arwin: Light/Middle
Labyrinthia Wordsworth: Light
Levin Brenton: High Heavy
Ragnar Blitz Lebrett: Heavy
Rupert Dandridge: Heavy
Tony: Puny
Weisheit: Low Godlike

Screw you and your 'numbers'!
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