Author Topic: Is it just me, or does FFXIII sound...kinda bad  (Read 14316 times)

AndrewRogue

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Re: Is it just me, or does FFXIII sound...kinda bad
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2010, 05:22:14 AM »
The other party members are AI controled? And people are complaining about this why? Persona 3 had AI controled party members and its a great game.

A game can be good/great in spite of really, really shitty design decisions. Like AI controlled PCs.

Cmdr_King

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Re: Is it just me, or does FFXIII sound...kinda bad
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2010, 07:18:21 AM »
I mean, keep in mind that one of the first things they announced for Persona 4 (and the PSP port of P3) was having player controlled PCs.  While having the option of AI isn't a bad thing, ultimately one of the core facets of RPG gameplay is making tactical decisions (the other big one is character customization).  Consequently, limiting the players ability to make decisions in battle beyond party members and the actions of one PC is inherently diminishing the gameplay value. 

Of course, some games have such obvious decisions that they may as well be played on AI.  These games are often not praised for their gameplay...
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Excal

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Re: Is it just me, or does FFXIII sound...kinda bad
« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2010, 07:29:30 AM »
Wait...  what?  Adding the option to ignore AI control in P3P?  But how fun will the game really be without the handicap of Mitsuru using almost nothing but Ice Break and Charm?

Grefter

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Re: Is it just me, or does FFXIII sound...kinda bad
« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2010, 08:54:20 AM »
You know that just might get me to try P3 again actually.  It should greatly improve the dungeon crawl part of the game anyway even if I still have to put up with the shitty dating game.  Still doing a shitty dating game for a dungeon crawler is better than doing it for shitty porn I guess like you normally would for that genre.

That and you know I can hack the fuck out of a PSP game easilly.  When does Disgaea 2 port come out again?

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Anthony Edward Stark

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Re: Is it just me, or does FFXIII sound...kinda bad
« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2010, 10:00:54 AM »
I probably would have kept playing if not for the main character and the fact I don't own a GameShark to cheat my part to level 200 or whatever. It was kind of cool, but I automatically did not identify myself with the main at all when they designed him to be an emo kid who a 14-year-old girl would date if she wanted to have a boyfriend she could beat up.

Scar

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Re: Is it just me, or does FFXIII sound...kinda bad
« Reply #30 on: February 21, 2010, 06:05:53 PM »
So Niu hasn't played this game yet? I'd like to see a perspective from someone with hands on experience.
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Meeplelard

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Re: Is it just me, or does FFXIII sound...kinda bad
« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2010, 03:22:27 AM »
Niu has played it.  From what I recall in WGAYP topic, is as 90% bitching, 50% of which was related to Snow.  But then, that tends to be the case with any game Niu plays that is not something he is totally drooling over <_<
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

hinode

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Re: Is it just me, or does FFXIII sound...kinda bad
« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2010, 03:37:23 AM »
He also went on and on about content cut from the final release. That and Snow-hate were the main things I got out of his posts.

Just Another Day

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Re: Is it just me, or does FFXIII sound...kinda bad
« Reply #33 on: March 08, 2010, 11:56:37 PM »
Snow's pretty goddamn dumb, but for my money Sazh at his worst is far more damning.

(Sazh in his serious-character-is-serious moments is fine, it's the comic relief pseudo-blaxsploitation that's painful)

I'm pretty much done the game now, save some grinding and the last optional superboss. I really enjoyed it, though it wasn't without its flaws.

The comparison to FF6 for linearity is fairly apt, though FF13 takes it farther in the 1st half, and there're a few other similarities, such as how it manages its characters (like FF6 there's no clear "main character", and like FF6 the focus shifts around the cast as the game progresses).

Gameplay-wise, I think the comparison to Crisis Core is poor (it's not an action RPG); the game I think its battle system most resembles is FFX-2, which is fine in my book, with a dash of a very streamlined FF12 gambit system. I found it consistently challenging and tactically interesting; very strong, IMO.

There are some weird constraints to it (you only get an arbitrary-seeming 6 slots for party-role configurations, and you often want considerably more) and a couple of stupid flaws (all 6 of those slots get reset whenever you change party members, and it's annoying and time consuming to put them back together). You could also make the case that the first ~half of the game, basically until the end of the Cocoon sequence, is more like a very extended tutorial, as it goes out of its way to give you different job combinations and lead characters before setting you loose on your own.

Plot-wise, it's a little bit on the obscure and unfulfilling side, with a novel but somewhat underdeveloped setting but consistently pretty good characters. I'll be interested to play it in English, though, since my Japanese isn't as good as it used to be and some of my issues there might be linguistically inspired.

I don't think calling Lightning a Cloud-clone is fair, for all that her role in the introduction is exceedingly similar. In fact, I'm not sure any of the characters have clear parallels in other FFs, and the game often develops them in unexpected ways. Other than Snow, I guess, he's pretty typical of his archetype.

I dunno. I don't have a great sense of what you like in games, m.c., but I definitely think it'll appeal to NEB, and I thought it was pretty excellent. Not the strongest title in the series (X or VI, I think), but no slouch.

Cmdr_King

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Re: Is it just me, or does FFXIII sound...kinda bad
« Reply #34 on: March 09, 2010, 12:35:40 AM »
Hm.  Key question for me, are the gambits merely available if you want them, or do you have the same "can only control one character at a time" restriction as FFXII as well?
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hinode

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Re: Is it just me, or does FFXIII sound...kinda bad
« Reply #35 on: March 09, 2010, 01:01:06 AM »
Everything I've heard indicates you can only control the lead PC at the time.

Just Another Day

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Re: Is it just me, or does FFXIII sound...kinda bad
« Reply #36 on: March 09, 2010, 02:20:13 AM »
That's correct; pretty integral to how the system works. More often then not your lead PC is just effectively auto-battling anyhow. It is another one of those weird oversights, I think, that you can't switch mid-battle; the AI is pretty good and relatively flexible but there are definitely moments when you're wanting to micro-manage what positive status effects, say, your enhancers/synergists are casting.

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Re: Is it just me, or does FFXIII sound...kinda bad
« Reply #37 on: March 09, 2010, 02:29:17 AM »
Bah.  Pity.
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metroid composite

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Re: Is it just me, or does FFXIII sound...kinda bad
« Reply #38 on: March 09, 2010, 05:33:46 AM »
I dunno. I don't have a great sense of what you like in games, m.c., but I definitely think it'll appeal to NEB, and I thought it was pretty excellent. Not the strongest title in the series (X or VI, I think), but no slouch.

"Would appeal to NEB" is usually a pretty good example of a game that'd appeal to me.  Well...except games that are "this sequel is just like the last game"--I usually get bored with those, but NEB tends to like them.

Just Another Day

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Re: Is it just me, or does FFXIII sound...kinda bad
« Reply #39 on: March 09, 2010, 06:00:39 AM »
Well, there are distinct similarities, but I don't think that's really the case here.

Niu

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Re: Is it just me, or does FFXIII sound...kinda bad
« Reply #40 on: March 09, 2010, 09:15:09 AM »
The game.... ultimately speaking... is... boring.

The battle system is... interesting for the first 5 hours, and then it become terribly sleep inducing.
The grunt enemy really lacks variety, because for 90% of them, the knock them into air and combo them to death tactic always work.
Rest of the skill set? Well, the buff and debuff is even more abusive than that of SMT, which is a bad sign. Especially even how some high class enemy still eats fatal status like Tire. Eventually, you'll find yourself spamming the same attack over and over again. The battle system lacks variety, simply put.
The only high light in the battle system are the boss fights, where they actually put up some interesting attack patter and individual quirk that you really have to work around it.
Then comes the end game grunts.... which is also awfully unbalanced. It is basically having you die in two minutes if you don't ambush, don't use smoke, or didn't fight the way they want you to, or didn't cheese with the Vanilla tactics. And even if you do, that battle takes too damn long. Orphan's Cradle now rivals the Light Tower as the dungeon of being horrifyingly boring.
I'll refrain from going into the battle set ups and the AI here... just to say how they universally favors spreading out damage instead of focusing is really really REALLY pissing me off.

As for the plot.... it is fairly tolerable second rated drama about people growing up, albeit rushed, it is still bearable. Then everything gets fucked up once Dysley shows up. The final part of the story also makes completly no sense.... and you actually hope that it'll stay as "making no sense" once you find out what really had happened after playing the after game. We seriously needs less nonsense about gods in RPGs in general. And knowing that other FF13 games are using the same base mythos now frightens me. If Etro is going to divinely intervene in everyone of them... I'll go mad sooner or later.

Anthony Edward Stark

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Re: Is it just me, or does FFXIII sound...kinda bad
« Reply #41 on: March 10, 2010, 06:53:14 AM »
Wait, the plot of FF13 is rushed? Absolutely nothing has happened at all. There were some explosions and then like ten hours of walking through jungles and canyons and shit.

OneWingedAngel12

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Re: Is it just me, or does FFXIII sound...kinda bad
« Reply #42 on: March 22, 2010, 08:39:04 AM »
It really sounds kinda bad. FF13 may be good in some aspects such as graphics but, its flaws overrun it out.

The story is kinda good at a point. However, the final battle and ending is kinda wretched.

In all RPGs I have played, Orphan (true form) is the only final boss that lasted for less than a minute, i.e. about 30 seconds.

Also, some themes don't fit the event/moment being portrayed. Most notably, the final battle themes, Born Anew and Nascent Requiem, are placed in incorrect battles.


Anthony Edward Stark

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Re: Is it just me, or does FFXIII sound...kinda bad
« Reply #43 on: March 22, 2010, 08:59:26 AM »
In all RPGs I have played, Orphan (true form) is the only final boss that lasted for less than a minute, i.e. about 30 seconds.

Lots of final bosses die that fast. It's even more if you exclude the time you spend watching attack animations in some games. I think Sephiroth dies in five seconds of actual gameplay (and god knows how long of watching lensflare effects). Kefka can go down literally in the first turn your first character gets. Yadda yadda, long story short boss longevity has not been a hallmark of FF games, it just seems that way because their attacks take fucking FOREVER.

If Orphan goes down in less than a minute, it is at least less than a minute of actual gameplay, and not less than a minute of watching your attack make visual effects. For all its faults, FF13 had this going on: it kept the visual effects to a minimum.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2010, 09:02:52 AM by Rob the Stampede »

Grefter

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Re: Is it just me, or does FFXIII sound...kinda bad
« Reply #44 on: March 22, 2010, 09:23:24 AM »
FF13, making up for its wank in other even less interesting ways.  It actually des have a lot of very graphically intense visuals (Ruinga is a fine example), but they don't delay anything and they are in the modern ultra fine detail kind of intense visual instead of LOOK AT ME I AM GIANT ANIMATED TITS style.
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Anthony Edward Stark

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Re: Is it just me, or does FFXIII sound...kinda bad
« Reply #45 on: March 22, 2010, 09:25:51 AM »
Gref, I don't care how much work you put in to your visuals as long as they don't stop me from having Sazh riddle you with bulletholes while Snow throws like twenty elbows (yes, as I said, I like his attack animations, because he doesn't have any style to them at all, so fuck you). One second is about the ideal window for an animation. More than that and I am done with you.

Grefter

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Re: Is it just me, or does FFXIII sound...kinda bad
« Reply #46 on: March 22, 2010, 10:49:05 PM »
Absolutely, just noting that even though they are short the game does still look amazing.  It is the one thing the game does right so I have to give it that.
NO MORE POKEMON - Meeplelard.
The king perfect of the DL is and always will be Excal. - Superaielman
Don't worry, just jam it in anyway. - SirAlex
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Re: Is it just me, or does FFXIII sound...kinda bad
« Reply #47 on: March 24, 2010, 01:22:48 AM »


As for the plot.... it is fairly tolerable second rated drama about people growing up, albeit rushed, it is still bearable. Then everything gets fucked up once Dysley shows up. The final part of the story also makes completly no sense.... and you actually hope that it'll stay as "making no sense" once you find out what really had happened after playing the after game. We seriously needs less nonsense about gods in RPGs in general. And knowing that other FF13 games are using the same base mythos now frightens me. If Etro is going to divinely intervene in everyone of them... I'll go mad sooner or later.



EPICALLY MASSIVE SPOILERS HERE.  IF YOU HAVEN'T ACTUALLY BEATEN THE GAME, YOU WILL BE SPOILED.


That said I've been wondering about that too.  Didn't they spend the entire game basically saying they won't play into the Pope's hands?  Then at the end... they kill the pope and they kill Orphan, just like the Pope wanted them to do.  I was wondering if maybe I missed some key detail (6am playtimes and all that) or if they literally just decided to say "fuck it, we killed the Pope, let's kill Orphan too rawr."  I know it worked out and all because Fang/Vanille decided to kick some major ass at the end, but I still don't fully understand the logic of doing exactly what the Pope wanted.  Thoughts/obvious things I missed?


END OF SPOILER!!!!!!

Anthony Edward Stark

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Re: Is it just me, or does FFXIII sound...kinda bad
« Reply #48 on: March 24, 2010, 05:40:13 AM »
I guess it all boils down to Reynolds' Law. "If someone tries to kill you, then you try to kill them right back."

Then it's like "DEUS EX MACHINA! We can turn in to the monster and instead of throwing the Dyson Sphere in to the planet, we turn it in to crystal which kills like 99% of the populace but saves Gran Pulse, which is totally uninhabited."

So, dumbness.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2010, 05:42:00 AM by Rob the Stampede »

Rozalia

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Re: Is it just me, or does FFXIII sound...kinda bad
« Reply #49 on: March 24, 2010, 09:31:41 AM »
Quote
That said I've been wondering about that too.  Didn't they spend the entire game basically saying they won't play into the Pope's hands?  Then at the end... they kill the pope and they kill Orphan, just like the Pope wanted them to do.

Its a case of just what Rob said. Though it was allround the best course of action even without the dues ex machina. Everyone was going to die anyway if they left it because the Cocoon army was finished anyway due to their cmmander being dead, half becoming zombies and the other half getting curb stomped by the pulse army. To me it was a case of "If everyone is going to die then at least the Fal'Cie die too".
This is my view on the matter so don't go accepting it as fact but thats how it looked to me.

Anyway Pulse isn't so bad. As long as they don't piss off Titan that is.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2010, 09:36:39 AM by Rozalia »