Author Topic: Nomic: TROTLR: Second Iteration - SIGNUPS OPEN  (Read 4784 times)

Taishyr

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Nomic: TROTLR: Second Iteration - SIGNUPS OPEN
« on: February 12, 2010, 02:37:43 PM »
So, yeah. Considering running myself a second game of Nomic, wondering if non-n-factorial parties would be interested.

A few quick notes:

* I'd be changing the rules a bit from how they started in Rat's game, probably formalizing a few mechanisms and making the entire thing a bit easier for the playerbase to tinker with. Not going to massively change things at all, mind, but a few of the immutable starting rules would be mutable from the get-go.

* Would not terribly mind a co-mod for those time periods I'm pretty much going "guh buh duh wuh", but would aim to keep those to a minimum. Also would probably not restrict co-mod from also playing, they'd just be backup for my stressdays.

So, um, yeah. Any interested parties?




Nomic

Initial Set of Rules

Immutable Rules

101. All players must always abide by all the rules then in effect, in the form in which they are then in effect. The rules in the Initial Set are in effect whenever a game begins. The Initial Set consists of Rules 101-116 (immutable) and 201-213 (mutable).

102. Initially rules in the 100's are immutable and rules in the 200's are mutable. Rules subsequently enacted or transmuted (that is, changed from immutable to mutable or vice versa) may be immutable or mutable regardless of their numbers, and rules in the Initial Set may be transmuted regardless of their numbers.

103. A rule-change is any of the following: (1) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of a mutable rule; (2) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of an amendment of a mutable rule; or (3) the transmutation of an immutable rule into a mutable rule or vice versa.

(Note: This definition implies that, at least initially, all new rules are mutable; immutable rules, as long as they are immutable, may not be amended or repealed; mutable rules, as long as they are mutable, may be amended or repealed; any rule of any status may be transmuted; no rule is absolutely immune to change.)

104. All rule-changes proposed in the proper way shall be voted on. They will be adopted if and only if they receive the required number of votes.

105. Every player is an eligible voter. Every eligible voter must participate in every vote on rule-changes, as follows:

During the Proposal or Voting phase for a player, a vote for the proposal at hand may be sent in to the Moderator via a forum PM to the Moderator or, if the Moderator requests it, to the Co-Mod. This vote may be changed up until the end of the Voting phase. There are three options: Affirmative, Negative, and Abstention (or whatever synonyms are chosen). If no PM is received by the end of the Voting Phase, the vote shall be counted as an Abstention.

106. All proposed rule-changes shall be written down before they are voted on. If they are adopted, they shall guide play in the form in which they were voted on.

107. No rule-change may take effect earlier than the moment of the completion of the vote that adopted it, even if its wording explicitly states otherwise. No rule-change may have retroactive application.

108. Each proposed rule-change shall be given a number for reference. The numbers shall begin with 301, and each rule-change proposed in the proper way shall receive the next successive integer, whether or not the proposal is adopted.

If a rule is repealed and reenacted, it receives the number of the proposal to reenact it. If a rule is amended or transmuted, it receives the number of the proposal to amend or transmute it. If an amendment is amended or repealed, the entire rule of which it is a part receives the number of the proposal to amend or repeal the amendment.

109. Rule-changes that transmute immutable rules into mutable rules may be adopted if and only if the vote is unanimous among the eligible voters. Transmutation shall not be implied, but must be stated explicitly in a proposal to take effect.

110. In a conflict between a mutable and an immutable rule, the immutable rule takes precedence and the mutable rule shall be entirely void in effect. For the purposes of this rule a proposal to transmute an immutable rule does not "conflict" with that immutable rule.

111. If a rule-change as proposed is unclear, ambiguous, paradoxical, or destructive of play, or if it arguably consists of two or more rule-changes compounded or is an amendment that makes no difference, or if it is otherwise of questionable value, then the other players may suggest amendments or argue against the proposal before the vote. A reasonable time must be allowed for this debate. The proponent decides the final form in which the proposal is to be voted on and, unless the Judge has been asked to do so, also decides the time to end debate and vote.

112. The state of affairs that constitutes winning may not be altered from achieving n points to any other state of affairs. The magnitude of n and the means of earning points may be changed, and rules that establish a winner when play cannot continue may be enacted and (while they are mutable) be amended or repealed.

113. A player always has the option to forfeit the game rather than continue to play or incur a game penalty. No penalty worse than losing, in the judgment of the player to incur it, may be imposed.

114. There must always be at least one mutable rule. The adoption of rule-changes must never become completely impermissible.

115. Rule-changes that affect rules needed to allow or apply rule-changes are as permissible as other rule-changes. Even rule-changes that amend or repeal their own authority are permissible. No rule-change or type of move is impermissible solely on account of the self-reference or self-application of a rule.

116. Whatever is not prohibited or regulated by a rule is permitted and unregulated, with the sole exception of changing the rules, which is permitted only when a rule or set of rules explicitly or implicitly permits it.

117. The Moderator and First Judge for this game is Taishyr/Taitoro/Xorntoro/Xorn-Gibberish. He may not be made a player and has veto attempts over attempts to make him a player. The Co-Mod is Halbarad. As for his playership, that's his choice.


Mutable Rules

201. Players shall alternate in Hatbotted order, taking one whole turn apiece. Turns may not be skipped or passed, and parts of turns may not be omitted. All players begin with zero points.

202. A rule-change is adopted if the vote is a majority among the eligible voters.

203. A player gains points at the beginning of the next player's turn equal to his rule number minus 300, divided by 2, plus 3. Round up after dividing. (So (((X-300)/2)+3)

204. An adopted rule-change takes full effect at the moment of the completion of the vote that adopted it.

205. When a proposed rule-change is defeated, the player who proposed it loses 10 points. When a proposed rule-change is accepted, the player who proposed it gains 10 points.

206. Each player always has exactly one vote.

207. The winner is the first player to achieve 200 (positive) points.

208. At no time may there be more than 25 mutable rules.

209. If two or more mutable rules conflict with one another, or if two or more immutable rules conflict with one another, then the rule with the lowest ordinal number takes precedence.

If at least one of the rules in conflict explicitly says of itself that it defers to another rule (or type of rule) or takes precedence over another rule (or type of rule), then such provisions shall supersede the numerical method for determining precedence.

If two or more rules claim to take precedence over one another or to defer to one another, then the numerical method again governs.

210. If players disagree about the legality of a move or the interpretation or application of a rule, then the player preceding the one moving is to be the Judge and decide the question. Disagreement for the purposes of this rule may be created by the insistence of any player. This process is called invoking Judgment.

When Judgment has been invoked, the next player may not begin his or her turn without the consent of a majority of the other players.

The Judge's Judgment may be overruled only by a unanimous vote of the other players taken before the next turn is begun. If a Judge's Judgment is overruled, then a Hatbotted player is made Judge, except that no player is to be Judge during his or her own turn or during the turn of a team-mate. If a Judgment is invoked and it is the Judge's turn, then a different person becomes Judge for that turn.

Unless a Judge is overruled, one Judge settles all questions arising from the game until the next turn is begun, including questions as to his or her own legitimacy and jurisdiction as Judge.

New Judges are not bound by the decisions of old Judges. New Judges may, however, settle only those questions on which the players currently disagree and that affect the completion of the turn in which Judgment was invoked. All decisions by Judges shall be in accordance with all the rules then in effect; but when the rules are silent, inconsistent, or unclear on the point at issue, then the Judge shall consider game-custom and the spirit of the game before applying other standards.

211. If the rules are changed so that further play is impossible, or if the legality of a move cannot be determined with finality, or if by the Judge's best reasoning, not overruled, a move appears equally legal and illegal, then the first player unable to complete a turn is the winner.

This rule takes precedence over every other rule determining the winner.

212. There are two Phases, or Parts, to each round of the game of Nomic: the Proposal phase, to last no more than 72 hours, and the Voting phase, to last no more than 24 hours.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2010, 09:38:00 PM by Taitoro »

Excal

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Re: Nomic: The Return Of The Legend Returns: Second Iteration
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2010, 03:02:59 PM »
Hrm...  definately interested in playing.  Not good co-mod material right now though.

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Nomic: The Return Of The Legend Returns: Second Iteration
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2010, 04:26:05 PM »
I had a ton of fun in the first game and would gladly join a second. I -would- like some pre-established mechanisms to prevent people from pulling a VSM for free, though.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Taishyr

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Re: Nomic: The Return Of The Legend Returns: Second Iteration
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2010, 05:45:49 PM »
Elaborate. I have only hazy recollections of the game pre: mob voting.

Hunter Sopko

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Re: Nomic: The Return Of The Legend Returns: Second Iteration
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2010, 05:52:57 PM »
In. Totally in. 100% in. Loved the first game.

Yoshiken

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Re: Nomic: The Return Of The Legend Returns: Second Iteration
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2010, 05:53:59 PM »
What is Nomic, exactly?

Bardiche

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Re: Nomic: The Return Of The Legend Returns: Second Iteration
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2010, 06:11:35 PM »
What is Nomic, exactly?

Legislative Hell: The Game.

I'm interested in trying this. Time management should be easier with a game that doesn't lynch you for being slow on the uptake. :D

Taishyr

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Re: Nomic: The Return Of The Legend Returns: Second Iteration
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2010, 06:52:19 PM »
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,2226.0.html <-- For Yoshiken. It's easier to just read past the first page and get a feel for the going-ons.

Yoshiken

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Re: Nomic: The Return Of The Legend Returns: Second Iteration
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2010, 07:10:17 PM »
That looks... confusing as all hell. Still, I think I may actually be interested. Somehow.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Nomic: The Return Of The Legend Returns: Second Iteration
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2010, 07:13:49 PM »
The game needs to start with about half as many rules (if that) but the core concept is fun and straightforward enough. Will probably watch rather than play again, though.

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Maybe.

Tonfa

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Re: Nomic: The Return Of The Legend Returns: Second Iteration
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2010, 08:34:49 PM »
My full name is actually Richard Xanatos Hawk. In.
<Niu> If I ever see that Langfadood, i'll strangle him on sight
<Gourry> What, for making the game three times better?
<Gourry> And playable, at that?
<Niu> that lose the whole point of of L2!!!

AndrewRogue

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Re: Nomic: The Return Of The Legend Returns: Second Iteration
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2010, 10:22:13 PM »
Not in, because then people will remember I need to bring cookies to this year's DL Con to actually claim my win.

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Nomic: The Return Of The Legend Returns: Second Iteration
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2010, 10:54:14 PM »
You're going to have to bring cookies anyway, you filthy bastard. Also, I demand Nomic 2 topic to be named Om Nom Nomic: The Cash-In or something.

(URGH I LOATHE THIS KEYBOARD)
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Carthrat

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Re: Nomic: The Return Of The Legend Returns: Second Iteration
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2010, 11:11:13 PM »
How could I not in for this? This time, I'll get promoted from player to mod, just you watch!
WHAT BENEFITS CAN ONE GET FROM SCIENTOLOGY?

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Nomic: The Return Of The Legend Returns: Second Iteration
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2010, 08:44:49 AM »
Not in, because then people will remember I need to bring cookies to this year's DL Con to actually claim my win.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              You live too close to Con not to bring the cookies this time!
...into the nightfall.

Veryslightlymad

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Re: Nomic: The Return Of The Legend Returns: Second Iteration
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2010, 11:02:47 AM »
I had a ton of fun in the first game and would gladly join a second. I -would- like some pre-established mechanisms to prevent people from pulling a VSM for free, though.

Spoilsport.

Taishyr

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Signups have been opened! THE RULES ARE DIFFERENT TO START, AND THIS IS IMPORTANT. I HAVE (semi-) CHANGED THE STARTING BASIS (mainly, majority is required to lynchpass a rule). Said rules are in the first post; if you notice any glaring errors, please whap me. If you notice any subtle errors, please presume you get to deal with those when the game starts. >_>

Also note that the game will probably be somewhat competing with SnowFire's Cthulhu Mafia. To avoid conflicts, I'll probably actually -start- a bit after him or something. I don't know. I'll work with him on this. Blar. He has priority, he started signups first.


Edit: And all that goes out the window as I realize just how much a scheduling conflict at least the next two weeks will be.

Regardless, people mind checking the rules? I'll probably start -after- SnowFire's Cthulhu Mafia instead, that should be enough time for me to resolve all my busy-ness.

« Last Edit: March 22, 2010, 05:16:52 AM by Taitoro »

Luther Lansfeld

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Re: Nomic: TROTLR: Second Iteration (TORO IS STUPID, CHECK TOPIC ANYWHO)
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2010, 04:16:25 PM »
Oh come on Andy. Just buy a tube of cookie dough or two for like three bucks and stick 'em in the oven.

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Taishyr

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Re: Nomic: TROTLR: Second Iteration - SIGNUPS OPEN
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2010, 12:32:19 AM »
Okay, signups open. I think... we'll go with nine people unless I'm provided with a concrete reason to do otherwise (less or more). Aiming 9 just so the game doesn't go on forever, though of course the length of the game can be changed by the players so I'm not sure why I'm concerned~

This being said. I kinda said I was gonna open this after Cthulhu Mafia, I don't feel bad about competing with Excal's game for attention. (Sorry Excal, I still love you! or something.) But if you're thinking of only participating in one game and debating between mine and Alex's, go for his, it's sure to be fun! And in addition he's been waiting/setting up even longer than I have.

tl;dr: signups open.

1. Excal
2. Bardiche
3. Jo'ou
4. Tonfa
5. n-factorial
6.
7.
8.
9. Rat

Reserves/spectators/THE MOB (do note you have no role in the game as it stands, but if you tag in as reserves I might poke you if someone needs to drop):
« Last Edit: May 23, 2010, 01:45:34 AM by Taitoro »

Excal

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Re: Nomic: TROTLR: Second Iteration - SIGNUPS OPEN
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2010, 12:41:40 AM »
I approve of this game!  So sign me up

Bardiche

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Re: Nomic: The Return Of The Legend Returns: Second Iteration
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2010, 01:35:20 AM »

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Nomic: TROTLR: Second Iteration - SIGNUPS OPEN
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2010, 03:46:51 AM »
So in.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Carthrat

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Re: Nomic: TROTLR: Second Iteration - SIGNUPS OPEN
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2010, 04:01:42 AM »
Sure why DON'T I join this and receive comeuppance
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Tonfa

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Re: Nomic: TROTLR: Second Iteration - SIGNUPS OPEN
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2010, 07:57:28 PM »
One post should be enough to affirm my position, I am disappointed in this utter lack of respect for your Vice President
<Niu> If I ever see that Langfadood, i'll strangle him on sight
<Gourry> What, for making the game three times better?
<Gourry> And playable, at that?
<Niu> that lose the whole point of of L2!!!

n-factorial

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Re: Nomic: TROTLR: Second Iteration - SIGNUPS OPEN
« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2010, 01:44:25 AM »
why the hell not

n! rides again