VALIANT HERO Mafia! [World is Saved]

[Maya Kumashiro]

Meanwhile, Almaz seemed to me like he was just misled with his tunneling on me, but then his last-minute 'Let's NOT lynch the bad cop claim and go for Gordon instead!' put him back on my suspicions. I want to see if he - mm-hmm, if I only I had some tea to go with this - follows up with his Hilda case from the end of the day.

Hhhhhhey now!  HeyheyHEY!  Ththat's not fair!  It was a copclaim, was I really supposed to feel at total ease with lynching it?  And didn't I already say I was ready to kill him but had some lingering doubts?  Cut me some slack here, will you?  Besides, I voiced my dislike of him way before there was a train going.

Anyway, ##VOTE: Hilda.  I'm not too happy with Gordon, but as someone said before me, this seems like a better lead.

To recap!  Hilda has switched votes with each of her posts, with little justification to switching cases.  It looks like she doesn't feel strongly for any of her cases at all!  She's voted, in succession and with each post:  Flay, Captain Planet, Prinny, Almaz, Captain Planet.  This vote record does make me reconsider, as she voted on the scum.  But!  It doesn't clear her to me yet!

She also seems to cover her bases, like here: yes, she does vote me, but she says that on a reread of Gordon and my conversations, that she distrusts both of us.  Whaaaat?  She doesn't spend any effort talking about Gordon later, but she does this multiple times.  Here for example she talks about being torn between intuition trust and brain trust... but adds a bit about Comedian in the same paragraph.  I... don't see where he came in.  She doesn't even mention him.

There are also promises of looking at others or elaborating on things that she never does.  Then there's her WIFOM argument against me.  It doesn't look sincere at all!  There was good reason to vote me at the time: people proved this by getting on me strong.  Hilda's case against me was WIFOM and "You didn't vote Prinny"!  It stinks and smells heavily of trying to get on a bandwagon.

[Alice Margatroid]

I'm very happy about this game so far, 2/2
Clearly my crime fighting senses are up to scratch!

I'm happy with a Bat lynch for today. No real need to think about it further.
##Vote Bat

[Margaret Houlihan]

Strange game, to be sure.  I don't even know about post analysis at this point because holy crap guys.  Talking points on the vote record though:

A. Both Prinny and Planet were on Flay with me at the end of day 1, rather than Minuteman.  I must admit my posting hasn't been the best but I think this is a point towards my defense, as Gordon mentioned.

B. More to the point, myself, Comedian, Kirk and Almaz weren't on either scum lynch.  I know I'm town, but that I've also been set up as a good lynch target by the scum (and my own failings).  Still, I haven't felt my actual votes to be that bad.  Almaz has mostly mirrored my sentiments, while Comedian and Kirk both hopped on me fairly early yesterday and tried to take me down.  Kirk is on me straight away again today, and claims that the main reason why is he still wants Minuteman down!  Comedian on the other hand doesn't believe Minuteman is scum, leaves his vote on me awaiting explanations of my behavior, and then simply never returns for the the rest of yesterday. 

While Comedian has had disturbingly little presence so far, Kirk is far more worrying in terms of sentiments, still tunneling for Middleman and I.  This is what I'd expect the last scum on a falling apart team to be doing.

##Vote: Kirk

[Bill Hellsnake]

Ears, you and I both have the distinction of not having voted for any proven Klingons.  However, unlike you, I can at least claim not to have been around when day end has come, unlike your day 1 performance.  As well as the fact that Middleman and yourself are still in doubt, while Flay and Gordon, your chosen targets, are very likely town.

I think if we do want to look at who possible scum would be, our best bet would be to look at the Gordon train.  Given the way the Planet claim went down, it was a non-telegraphed claim which was also botched, suggesting that the goal was to deal with Gordon.

This brings us to Ears, Hazel, and Almaz.

On a side note, Almaz, Hilda's voting record, at this point, is in her favor.  She was for Planet before his blunder, and has been on both Klingon trains.  Votes speak, and hers speak loudly.

[Maya Kumashiro]

Kirk:

This vote record does make me reconsider, as she voted on the scum.  But!  It doesn't clear her to me yet!

[Bill Hellsnake]

I noticed.  My argument is that it's worth more consideration than you seem to be giving it.  The pattern is wrong for Klingon operations as it's too eagre to spend time on fellow Klingons if she's in fact a Klingon operative.

[Helga Pataki]

##VOTE: Batmanuel

The odds of it are not very likely, no, but our convictions must be unfaltering! *cough*Almaz*cough* What were the odds of two VILLAINS being on the train!? ... Don't ask me! But I'm certain it wasn't very high! And if there is a fifth member among them? Well... if that's the case, we shall hunt them down in the name of justice!

---------------------
I'm the only ninja here, Bats.

So you accuse the Captain because of common opinion? [You voted Kirk because "Look at me! I've been set up!" and because he shares the same opinion as many of us? Hell, Tick and I are still hunting straight for you. You gonna say we're both secretly mafia doing some sort of ultra-gutsy scum gambit?] And instead of voting for the UNHEROIC HERO who lurks in the shadows, you instead accuse the one facing you like a MAN!? [You're not going after the lurker first? Really?]

...ahh, screw the RP. I'm tired.

I also take issue with you trying to use you being on my train as part of your defense. It's a null tell. At best. I mean, I think we can pretty safely say, by now, that the scum were more than happy to try and get me lynched on Day 1. We can also say pretty safely that they didn't have a clue where people's hearts were, as at least half of my train, for the entire day, was scum. So, hey. You admitting that you were failing just kinda backs up my point. Also, Prinny was on Middleman at end of day. But if you really want to bring up voting record for things like that, then Prinny was incredibly hesitant to vote for Middleman, and Middleman being scum condemns you. Still wanna follow that train of thought? Didn't think so.

So... your defense in point B is "I wasn't the only one not to vote for the scum!... both times."[/i] ? Should I point out that today, Kirk wasn't around at end of Day. Should I also point out that, once again, your argument includes both Tick and I, you just "happened" to omit us?

As for the rest of your argument, it should be fairly obvious just how horrid it is. (He's following a train of thought that's worked so far! OH NO! HE MUST BE SCUM! Who else would do such a thing!?)

...there was something else I was going to say, unrelated to your post, but... can't remember it right now. (Really need more sleep) Will say it when I remember.

----------------------
More ninjas!?
Nothing to say on you two, but I do now remember what I was going to say to Bats! If we look at this for a purely "what information can be gained from this" POV, then lynching you shows us what to think of Kirk, Gordon, and Middleman. If you're scum, we can pretty much guarantee Gordon and Kirk (though I am a little wary of distancing tactics at this point, because the "there might be 5" argument is a good point, so I'll be keeping my eye on Kirk either way), and if you're scum, then Middleman is also scum. If you're town, then we can start seriously looking at Gordon and Kirk, and ignoring Middleman for the most part. (Because, really, the biggest argument against him is the train thing) And the next person to go "But what that would be a huge gamble!" should look at how I wasn't doing well when they started the train on me, and also at the fact that they were almost definitely not expecting it to blow up so spectacularly. And then be punched in the face.

So, yeah. Bats, you're first on my list. Not only because of your posts and voting record, but also because you're the best lynch target for information.

[Nathan Greaves]

I reject the notion that I was bussing on the grounds that my Day 2 play had given me free reign to vote Batmanuel in the interest of saving Planet, as well as Planet bringing you, Gordon, who I desired lynched more than anyone else, back up to relevance. I would like to think that being convinced away from my top two choices onto a scum is indicative of my being town, but obviously I'm biased.

Trying to use Keehar's words against me remains utter nonsense. You remind me a lot of Speedwell and his stories.

I have gone back over the Keehar train and the Planet train and I noticed something very interesting: 7 of the 8 votes on each train were from the same people. The one difference is Flay-rah (a claimed mason with backup) voting for Keehar changing to me (someone I know is town) voting for Planet. This whole thing smells very strongly of superbussing. The last two games I played where a scum was lynched Day 1, there were actually more buddies on the train than off it. I am willing to bet on a 4-scum game, if not a 5-scum game, but not a 3-scum game, so my inclination is to look to the two trains and see who was on them for good reasons and who was on them for bad. Give me a moment to quickly go over the trains again. A vote will appear in my next post.

[Princess Leia]

##Vote:Batmanuel

Yeah, I'm comfortable with this. Lemme get some thoughts out there while I'm thinking, though.

I've been thinking about Planet's vote on Gordon most of the night, when I wasn't rocking out that is, and it's just one big mess of WIFOM. So is his "clearing" of Batmanuel, of course. Gotta just ignore what the scum said and focus on the people themselves. Gordon I'm iffy on, sometimes he seems solid enough, somtimes he seems off. I get the Hazel vote on paper, the rabbit was basically the deciding vote on Planet which is a great place for a bus. On the other hand, isn't that exactly what Gordon's vote did with Prinny on day one? Deciding vote, great place for a bus! I was thinking that I bought the whole 'setting a trap' thing earlier, but Gordon voting Hazel for something that he did himself the day before is making me reconsider that.

As for Batmandu himself, yeah, I'm willing to buy that he could still be scum. Using 'but scum wouldn't all do something like that' as a defense is WIFOM at best, and the rest of his defense now is full of holes. Holes that Flay already picked apart, so I'll save the text and just direct you to what he said.

I will add that the "scum wouldn't do something that obvious/stupid!" logic is something I won't ever support. If everyone thinks like that and accepts that, then doing the "obvious/stupid" thing becomes a smart move, since everyone will discount it! That and I'm going to sound like a jackass, but I think we can take Prinny and Planet as evidence that we may not be dealing with criminal masterminds here. And yes I know that's a load of WIFOM too, smart scum could easily have just sacrificed bad scum as a ploy, I'm not discounting that. I just don't want people overlooking stuff on the assumption that scum will always be smart either.

I'll shut up with the playstyle stuff now, that's not an argument to get into on Day 3. Voting Batman, would vote Gordon over Hazel right now if I had to decide between the two. 

[Helga Pataki]

Gordon! A TRUE HERO would not place a vote and then give themselves full clearance to hop onto a train should it form! Also, if we were to all "put pressure elsewhere while waiting to see if the votes pile up" then we would never catch the VILLAINS! [Dude, seriously. You gave yourself full clearance to hop onto the Batmanuel train, while placing a vote elsewhere. What the hell? Either you think he's scum, and therefore place a vote on him, or you don't. Don't play both fields. At least Almaz, who I'll cover in a second, is sticking to his convictions that he doesn't believe all three quick-trainers to be scum. Also: If everyone places votes on people aside from Bats, then there will never be anything to place a vote on later. So, yes. There is a problem with putting pressure where it isn't needed.]

And you, Almaz! Why do you allow yourself to see only one line of justice!? [Is there a particular reason you've got such a bad case of tunnel-vision? I mean, I'm not accusing you of anything, it's just kinda strange is all.]

[Asuka Langley]

Flay: My honest opinion? I don't think Manuel is scum. It's too convenient that everyone who started a wagon on you turns out to be scum, whatever Kirk says. Plus I'm of the suspicion that Planet's rolecop investigation of Manuel was genuine, and he pulled it up as a last-ditch defense to give himself some rep - calling on a teammate to vouch for you at THAT point is frankly suicidal. It might even have worked if he'd just kept it to Townie and not vanilla Townie. We can assume they didn't find a role with Planet because no roles are dead.

So yes, I don't think Manuel is worth following.

[Nathan Greaves]

Bit of Stream of WordPad Consciousness going on here, so bear with the flow of this post.

As much as I want my "scum must be bussing theory" to be as true as it has been in recent games, I went over the five that weren't Hiro, the two masons or myself, and I found myself having to do a lot of forcing if I wanted to make a case on them. Gordon's the only one I'd consider pursuing, and here are my notes on him so people can see how aioheifoeqiadsf this has been to read through:

Gordon - I...really don't know what to make of this. On the one paw, I don't get his clinging to the Man in the Middle for so long at all. Does posting really absolve someone from prior abscences? Especially a post string like the one the Man in the Middle made? On the other paw he did end up swinging from an unknown to a scum, which means this tell sorta falls flat unless the Man in the Middle is also scum. (I must admit, with both Keehar and Planet now flipping scum, I do now lend credence to the idea that Flay was scum's townie push and not the Man in the Middle, though it is by no means a certainty.)

Gordon - I've already gone over why this looked really bad, but, once again, that gets turned on its ear in the light of Planet's flip. Then again, this was the second Planet vote cast, so he was handcuffed to the train as it picked up steam, and it was basically a "get off me go look at this lurker instead!" vote as both myself and Batmanuel have said. Then again, he had the chance to switch to Batmanuel when Batmanuel had 5 votes to Planet's 4 and did not. Then again, Planet's play between Gordon's posts would have made it very hard for Gordon to substantiate a swing anyway. Argh.

Everyone else I've felt like "wow a case against them would be incredibly convoluted and weak" except for maybe Axel because his Prinny vote could easily be construed as a bandwagon hop but the way he played while the Planet train was forming really suggests to me he's sincere. Smax and Hilda look fine, and the Man in the Middle...wait hold on a second.

(I am also super exhausted. I'd much prefer a Planet lynch over a Bats, honestly. I'd write up a stronger case, but both are big time lurkers. Hazel and Almaz are both around, so I don't feel like I'm putting things in Sudden Death/no Lynch danger by doing this. This is no defense of Batmanuel, I think he's been lurking super hardcore, but I have more substantial suspicions on Planet.

##Unvote The Tick
##Vote Captain Planet.

Wow wait a minute what's going on here? A completely unsubstantiated Planet vote yeah this doesn't look like bussing at all! I was going to give you credit for tying Planet with Batmanuel but this looks really bad. Where are these "substantial suspicions of Planet"? The only thing you said about Planet on Day 2 is this little exerpt from your first post of the day:

By the same token, The other captain- Captain Planet- concerns me as well. His early "Serious Voting" for Kirk and their exchange seems to me like an intentional attempt to distance themselves from each other, like a case too weak to get far but enough to blather about.

The only suspicion you have with the guy is an Early Day 1 spat? Seriously? No no no this is really bad. Never mind that his vote spends the entirety of Day 2 just bouncing from place to place. The early switch from Tick to Kirk in particular I'm having a hard time figuring out.

My apologies to both Kirk and Axel for yelling at you about competing Day 1 scum trains, as I think I have just convinced myself.

##Vote: The Middleman

Other people I think might be scum...Gordon still rubs me the wrong way, Batmanuel's now been off twice and has Keehar cheerleaing under his belt, Almaz has now been off twice and his song and dance at the end of Day 2 looked bad enough at the time and now looks terrible in light of Planet's flip...would probably vote in Almaz > Gordon > Batmanuel order should I not get my way with the Man in the Middle. Batmanuel and Gordon could easily be flipped, I'm a bit unsure who I like less there.

[Princess Leia]

Argh, just found a hole in the Batman voting logic. Bats flipping town does NOT clear Middleman. Bat was the second one on Flay after Hilda, THEN Planet and Prinny piled on in short order before Hilda had pulled off. Scum trying to turn a case with 2 votes on into a straight up train makes alot of sense. Middleman was at 5 at the time, the Flay train was the competition for the Middleman train. Either one(Hilda) or two(Hilda and Bat) townies started it up, then scum jumped all over it. Sure, ScumHilda->TownBat->ScumPlanet/Prinny is also a possibilty, but I don't think Hilda's particularly scummy, and the odds that she's scum while the Bat isn't aren't great. Her and Bat being scum would require a 5 scum game, Middleman being the 5th, since there is no reason in hell for 4 scum to all pile on one target like that without a 5th one to save.

I still don't like the Bat, I still think he's got a good chance of being scum, but this lynch doesn't give us as much info as I was thinking it would. Going to keep my vote on him, but I wanted to get that out there once it hit me.

[Helga Pataki]

No, it doesn't clear Middleman. But it does clear one of the biggest arguments against him.

[Tron Bonne]

I am willing to bet on a 4-scum game, if not a 5-scum game, but not a 3-scum game, so my inclination is to look to the two trains and see who was on them for good reasons and who was on them for bad.

The odds of it are not very likely, no, but our convictions must be unfaltering! *cough*Almaz*cough* What were the odds of two VILLAINS being on the train!? ... Don't ask me! But I'm certain it wasn't very high! And if there is a fifth member among them? Well... if that's the case, we shall hunt them down in the name of justice!

WARNING, MATH!

31%(5/16) scum is pretty absurd. Most games hover around 20%. Five isn't even a possibility I considered due to this. 25%(4/16) is even on the high side but possible.

Day 1 town lynch- town NK- 14 people left Day 2
Day 2 town lynch- town NK- 12 people left Day 3
Day 3 town lynch- town NK- 10 people left Day 4 (with five scum, this is game over without craziness)
Day 4 town lynch- town NK- 8 people left Day 5 (with four scum, this is game over without craziness)

In other words, possible in the worst case scenario LYLO could be as early as Day 3 with five scum. That is hideous game balance and assuming that the setup is that anti-town is not a good one. As a general rule from talking to mods in the past, the number of scum should about match the amount of mislynches. Of course, the scenario outlined above isn't the case, but worst case for town is what is considered.

/WARNING, MATH!

It seems like a lot of people are going after Batmanuel, but I just get the consistent vibe that he is basically acting like Batmanuel and fuck the rest. The cop claim of his vanilla townieness is really bothersome and it was just a stupid slip by Captain Planet. I'm not 100% sure why Batmanuel didn't vote for him after that; from his position, I believe that him telling your alignment and your role is pretty obviously scum! For whatever reason though I just have a feeling that Batmanuel isn't scum. I can't justify this at all.

The Comedian worries me far more; he's barely even playing despite doing some posting. I have very little commentary on him because uh he doesn't do anything!

---

Almaz: Yes, I think you and Gordon aren't on my list of most trusted players (Flay, Hiro (*sniffle*)) and I regard this as important. You are worse because of your ignorance of obvious flailing so I chose to target you.

Why yes, when you post about once a day, things in the game change, cases develop and my perceptions on people change. Flay did basically nothing when I voted on him; he seemed like a floater. I stand by this! Captain Planet tried to make a post that was long and contentless which always irritates me. Prinny because he did the same thing. A person should never feel that strongly about Day 1 lynches; I felt that this was an unusually easy Day 1 to read but fundamentally you don't have much evidence to go on.

I voted for you because you willfully ignored bad bad flailing. It wasn't "because you didn't vote Prinny". It was because, when someone says something like that, you should at least ATTEMPT to rethink your ideas, not just say "He said something, unlike Middleman! Whoopde-freaking-do, he is capable of speaking. Captain Planet I voted because he basically revealed that he was scum by extending knowledge a little bit too far about power roles. I said this in the post in more polite terms, but you cannot say that I didn't justify this. I felt like I was pretty clear about why I voted for both people.

There are also promises of looking at others or elaborating on things that she never does.

Gotta go to work, gotta go to work, gotta have a job~

In other words, I cannot post in rapidfire succession because hi I actually do things besides sit in front of my computer 16 hours a day.

There are also promises of looking at others or elaborating on things that she never does.  Then there's her WIFOM argument against me.  It doesn't look sincere at all!  There was good reason to vote me at the time: people proved this by getting on me strong.  Hilda's case against me was WIFOM and "You didn't vote Prinny"!  It stinks and smells heavily of trying to get on a bandwagon.

Current Votes:
Almaz [3] - Hazel, Hiro, Hilda, Axel

oh yeah a one person 'bandwagon'

I would loooooove to continue playing with you, Almaz. I haven't decided what I think about you now, but I am quuuite happy to play~~~ I think that he seems to either be bad at assessing situations or he is scum. I haven't decided which. Twice you have gone against what seemed to be the most obvious (and was the most obvious to most people!).

And you, Almaz! Why do you allow yourself to see only one line of justice!? [Is there a particular reason you've got such a bad case of tunnel-vision? I mean, I'm not accusing you of anything, it's just kinda strange is all.]

He did the same thing on Day 2. I half-considered just ignoring everything he said due to shear laziness and not wanting to deal with him, but I figured that wouldn't be the best course of action.

---

Gordon has a weird, obsessive pursuit on Hazel. I neither agree with his case nor do I get any read from him having the case; points for sticking to his guns. I think Prinny was just causing chaos, since well why not. I also think that was a trainpush by Planet just before he realized his blunder.

Kirk... I really don't know. My problem is that without knowing the alignments of a couple other players like Batmanuel and Middleman, it is hard for me to get a solid read on the fact that he avoided both scum-lynches.

I basically agree with Flay on Hazel. Both in Day 2 and Day 3 he/she seems more concentrated with the ability for trains to pick up and all that. I'm not certain how much I like that language.

The idea that Middleman is bussing Captain Planet grows weaker when you realize Batmanuel had more votes. I think all four being scum would be basically the best thing ever and really f-ing hilarious… and… makes a lot of sense… ohgod…that would be so embarrassing. I think that Middleman turning up scum would make Batmanuel look a lot worse. It makes a lot of sense, but excuse me for being skeptical that it is that easy.

I am torn between voting Almaz again for being completely infuriating and bad, voting the Comedian for barely existing, or the Middleman for SCIENCE. I had basically the same idea as Hazel in that I wanted to investigate those who seemed like they might be bussing. I think the most logical time to bus is after the terrible claim was pointed out, so Smax and Hazel catch my ire.

I will elaborate more on Smax and Hazel once I am done going into work and shopping.

Also Flay your hair is sexy.

[Bill Hellsnake]

There's one other thing I've been noticing.  There's been almost no mention of the jester, and he should be on any list of officers to consider.  His votes have been very similar to mine, but his transmissions have been scarce, and he's been easy to overlook.  Aside from that, I'm thinking that Mr. Almaz does look worse than the Tribble.  This leaves me with a suspect list that looks like this.

Middleman = Ears > Giggles = Almaz > Tribble

At the moment, I'm not inclined towards seeing anyone else as possible Klingons, and even assuming there's three remaining, that's still enough for them to fit in that group easily.

Edit: Looking at Mr. Axel's recent transmission, I think I will be changing course.  As much as I want to focus on Ears, part of the strength in his destruction would be in the information we'd get from it.  We've already gotten the core bit of it from Planet's end, and...  Ears being a Klingon would only make me even more certain that Mr. Middleman is as well.  Since I'm certain enough of Middleman, and he's edging slightly ahead, I think I'll go with the old Earth's 11th Commandment: Thou shalt not suffer (practically) confirmed scum to live.

Mr. Spock, bounce a graviton particle beam off the main deflector dish, and send it off to Mr. Middleman.

##Unvote; ##Vote: Mr. Middleman

[Helga Pataki]

Kirk, I do not see why you would switch your vote to Middleman. There is, quite clearly, more information to be gained from Batmanuel's lynch than there is Middleman's! I have already covered what happens should Batmanuel flip HERO or VILLAIN, but Middleman, should he be VILLAIN, only further convicts Batmanuel! But should he be HERO, what does that gain us!? [I'm not understanding your logic, there, Spock.]

[Chiaki]

(Finally have two hours to sit down at the computer! As long as I don't get bus-sick, we should be okay. To explain at least part of the way for now- I strongly suspected Kirk from day 1. The Tick-Kirk-Tick hop was because at the beginning of Day 2, pre-claim, I thought Tick was far worse/more likely to get momentum. I'm building my full Kirk Case now.)

[Tohsaka Rin]

Here. Reading. It'll take a while. Apologies. Not making any assumptions about Bats based on Planet's last posts, though, I know that much right off. Could've been trying to clear a buddy, could've been looking for a townie accomplice. Big can of beer in front of me and I'm not drinking it.

[Chiaki]

So here's my view of the Kirk case, in three points. Warning- I tried to limit the use of blockquotes where possible, but sometimes context is necessary.

Day 1 link with Planet

The game starting in Jokevote, Planet votes Kirk, Kirk votes planet, this is all fine. Kirk proceeds to chat with Saber, making relatively silly arguments based on the "dem apples" line. Just as the issue is omre or less settled, Planet turns his jokevote into a "serious vote" based on some really terrible logic. Like I said in my Day 2 post, especially if you read it in the light of Planet being scum, the whole thing seems like a gambit to post at each other but not in a way intended to be taken seriously- a distancing move for later, when people wonder why they never talk about each other.

Late Day Vanishing acts

Kirk, however, picks up a couple of votes before he has to explain himself. His argument, that his poor logic in jokevote, which people are calling him for, was just to encourage people out of the jokevote phase. That's fine and reasonable, at this point, and Kirk had been pushing hard on me. He makes one more quick post, responding to Saber, and calling me out again.

This is all fine, except that 1) you can view it as covering for Planet as well and 2) this is his last freaking post in day 1, with almost 48 hours left to deadline. From a scum perspective, why not? Middletrain is on its way, day one setup is done, might as well cruise. We all know how that ended.

Contradictory posting

This section starts on Kirk's first post of Day 2 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4618.msg97883.html#msg97883), where he says, "
I'm also suspicious of the officers sitting on Mr. Middleman at day's end.  Given the Klingy's reluctance to vote for his survival, there's obviously something there as well." He then claims his case vanished because Saber was NK'd, and rather than discuss the train further, jumps onto following the Comedian for starting a Batmanuel train again. Remember this, because I'm coming back to it in a paragraph or so.

There's this post Pre-Tick Claim, when the Tick Vote was still quite strong.

Mr. Tick is something of an enigma.  My gut, my human spirit says he's Town, but logic says he's likely Klingon scum.  That Mr. Gunnar was the first on the Prinny takes away a lot of what I felt was strong about him, but he still moved his vote at a time when the situation was in flux, and the train on Mr. Middleman was never that strong, founded as it was in his inaction, and not in his actions.  As well, in a gathering like this, confidence is in no short supply.  That his vote should involve more confidence than he might deserve should not be shocking.  And the style of his claim of at least one scum being on Mr. Gunnar feels more Town than Klingon.

Firstly, he was one of the people pushing my train the hardest day 1. Secondly, this post screams "Quote Me Day Three To Show I felt bad about lynching Tick even though he was town". This is all but waiting the Tick Hammer without raising his profile- obviously he couldn't anticipate the claim and trainshift.

Then there's this post after that:

As for Mr. Middleman and his train, his train being scum pushed is ridiculous.  When people jumped on him there was nothing else besides your standard Day 1 trains, none of which were worth a damn.  Whereas what he did was make himself look different, which made him a target.  This is not evidence that he is scum, but it certainly suggests that the start of the attacks on him were not Klingon based.  His gaining the lead was more because there was no one else to attack, and his managing to draw attention to himself with his transmissions.

Apologies for the blockquotes, but I feel it's all relevant. First paragraph is a pretty vehement about-face from the previous comments at the start of the day. Also recall, again, that Kirk was one of the biggest Middletrain pushers.

Lastly, near the end of Day 2:

And neither has produced anything of substance after their lone votes today for targets that could be considered safe.  While I am now edging towards Planet possibly looking worse, I do implore that we focus primarily on Ears today.  Unlike Planet who gives us almost no information outside of helping confirm Mr. Middleman, Ears also gives us information on Mr. Gordon, given his quick jump this morning on the fellow.  Of course, if we're mistaken about Ears, this is a null tell, but if he's Klingon like I suspect he is, then Mr. Gordon looks better, and that helps clear up someone who we're currently worried about.

Hey everyone, both Planet and Hazel are key lynches, but if we lynch Hazel, we don't have to lynch Planet!

If Kirk is scum, which I believe, he's playing well. But there's still slipups here and there which are apparent based on the folding of the rest of the scumteam.

[Helga Pataki]

Middleman, I have a quick note for you to add, there, before analysis. Kirk has been referring to Batmanuel as "Ears," not Hazel.

Also Flay your hair is sexy.

I do what I can.

[Margaret Houlihan]

Lynching "for information" even in a situation like this is scummy and poor play, just to get that out there.  Lynch who you think is scum.  Axel, Kirk (in particular!) and Flay all keep talking about this; Batmanuel thinks that visceral experience is superior to textbook information, so to speak. 

As for the cop claim?  Some people equate "vanilla" with "townie," even in normal cop results, for whatever reason.  I've seen it happen before.  A cop that gets both role and alignment as claimed?  No, that's too good to be true, in retrospect, but at the time there was some "aaah deadline coming cop claim don't jump on the cop claim what if I'm wrong" panic in my head.

[Tohsaka Rin]

Comedian coasting this long without attracting attention for it is starting to give me a headache. See something weird about the way Kirk called him out, though:

There's one other thing I've been noticing.  There's been almost no mention of the jester, and he should be on any list of officers to consider.  His votes have been very similar to mine, but his transmissions have been scarce, and he's been easy to overlook.

Why is this worth mentioning? I don't get the point of including this. Oh, there's something else, too. I got a good laugh out of this:

Ears, you and I both have the distinction of not having voted for any proven Klingons.  However, unlike you, I can at least claim not to have been around when day end has come, unlike your day 1 performance.  As well as the fact that Middleman and yourself are still in doubt, while Flay and Gordon, your chosen targets, are very likely town.

The fact that you had a massive absence leading up to the end of day one is a good thing somehow? I don't get it.

[Asuka Langley]

Curses. I was sitting reading through everyone before I placed my vote back on Hazel because I was trying to find someone new to discuss. I very nearly went for Kirk, but I favoured Hazel because I'm trying too hard with this damn Hazel drop from the Prinny. But if I look at it that way I could say the same for Prinny's flip from 'Saber and Kirk need to stop talking, dood' into 'Saber/Kirk was a necessary evil, dood'.

What can I say? The 3rd Defender of Earth was a hunter by the name of Elmer Fudd. Tunnel vision in terms of rabbits must be genetic.

Then the Middleman speaks up, and now apparently Admiral Carter is docking my pay for not paying enough attention. No matter - a DEFENDER OF EARTH can survive even if he has to cut down on his Teriyaki Pizza addiction habit!

Thou shalt not suffer (practically) confirmed scum to live.

What is this?! How can you be practically confirmed?! Either you're confirmed by investigation, confirmed by flip, or you're suspicious at best. Jennifer told me to call anyone who said something like this Miss Rep! Whatever that means.

##GORDON UNVOTE!: Hazel
##GORDON VOTE!: Kirk

It hurts to have to eliminate another space-farer, but if it is for the sake of Earth, I will do what I must!

[Helga Pataki]

Before I, The Flay, can finish my research, would any of you fellow HEROES happen to have a vote count, handy?