Register

Author Topic: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [World is Saved]  (Read 60747 times)

Nathan Greaves

  • Just wants a moment of your time
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 201
  • It'll be off the record, I promise.
    • View Profile
Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #450 on: February 24, 2010, 07:37:06 AM »
Wait, where did I "object" to that interpretation?  I didn't bother talking about it at all, I just silently thought it was bad town play.

That was said with the mentality that you disagreed with the assessment other people (e.g. Hilda) put forth, which evidently you did/do, since you were willing to move to the Man in the Middle because of it.

What I want to bring to the attention right now is the following:

After the flailing, Gordon was equally unwilling to move off of Middleman, moving only after Middleman's suicide ploy.

As Hiro noted, Middleman's suicide maneuvre confused the hell out of people, and I chose to stick by that.  Gordon decided to lay his trap and conveniently switched, and this is important so read the post:

Quote
Middleman's suicide ploy is painful, but I see no reason to impede the Prinny lynch given his play today! Consider me ready to swap if a last minute wagon-switch occurs!

Now read that last line.  Notice the "if"?  So if the Prinny hadn't been at deadline, he would've stayed on Middleman.

Yes, I said I excused the Prinny's defence in favour of Middleman's lack of defence and complete abstinence from participating in the Day, contributing and voting.  I found it more offencive that someone'd completely disappear Day 1 after his sketchy behaviour at the start.

Is that really enough to hound me time and again?  And give Gordon a free pass for ignoring that same flailing post and sticking to Middleman?  It demonstrates that I was not the only one to ultimately stick to Middleman despite Prinny's flailing.  It is only after Middleman's play that Gordon switches without much explanation.

As I recall, Gordon stuck to the Man in the Middle because the Man in the Middle had not posted. Once he did, Gordon announced the intent to move to Kehaar should his shift be necessary to secure a Kehaar lynch (and it ultimately was). I do not know how this equates to Gordon excusing Kehaar's flail post.

Batmanuel does not explicitly say he excuses the Prinny's defence, but he favours both of them as Town and finds Middleman the more Town person.  In other words, I was definitely not alone in excusing Prinny's flailing.

I do not see how Batmanuel finding the Man in the Middle to be the more town person and expressing intent to vote for Kehaar qualifies as excusing the Kehaar flail.

FACT: Almaz expressed disbelief of the copclaim before that.
FACT: Almaz expressed he'd vote Captain Planet before that.
FACT: Almaz even expressed doubts about Captain Planet before a train was formed.
FACT: Almaz discredited the plan himself by proposing Planet was a scum rolecop.

This makes things even worse. In light of all this, why did you still bring up your proposal to let Planet live? What modicum of pro-town intent is there in proposing that plan? Why would you bring up something you yourself do not believe in as admitted in your fourth fact and only serves as giving scum an out to avoid the day lynch?

Smax: Is my case really that faulty? If there is something I'm missing I would really love to hear it, but just telling me I'm tunneling (which I believe is a nonsensical accusation anyway given I've posted about plenty of other people today but I guess my definition of tunneling is different from the definition others use) does nothing to tell me what's logically wrong with the case.

Breaking this off here, will respond to Flay-rah next post.

Nathan Greaves

  • Just wants a moment of your time
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 201
  • It'll be off the record, I promise.
    • View Profile
Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #451 on: February 24, 2010, 08:02:36 AM »
- Yes, fair enough. I made no deal of you being more aggressive Day 2 than you were Day 1. It's the continual increase in aggression that's, as Smax put it, "jarring." Please take a moment to chill, though. I didn't appreciate the venom.

I am unaware of any "venom" I have put forth, but I readily admit that I may be doing it unconsciously, as both you and Almaz look to me like you're actively trying to piss me off in ways that could also be construed as unconscious antagonization. I will try harder to avoid pissing you off, but I ask that you two do the same.

- See, I've still done that myself in the middle of a post. I don't like deleting what I've typed, though, because I like knowing where I was at the beginning, because then I find it easier to trace how I came to my conclusions. (Also, if you'd note, I started my first post there by saying you were the bottom of my stack, and then in my suspicions list you weren't. That was because I'd convinced myself that you weren't any less suspicious than Gordon by the end of that post. I didn't delete it, though, so you can even check for yourself)

The thing is that none of your changing and flowing thoughts involved presenting a plan that gave scum an easy out to not get lynched. Almaz's did.

- I do agree that he had a ridiculously bad post near the end of Day 2. I guess I'm just not seeing why it's such a huge deal. Especially since you still seem to be clinging to the "he was nervous!" argument.

I'm not even sure what argument you mean here. Do you mean the End of Day 3 stuff when you say "he was nervous"? I wouldn't say I'm clinging to that, as a stand-alone it would not make a good case since it would require assuming scum in the first place. The reason I use it is because I have other pieces of evidence that lead me to believe Almaz is scum, and as a result this piles onto it.

- Yes, I do believe you were wrong for scummy reasons. Well, maybe not quite scummy but certainly suspicious. Gonna point to this post, but more specifically the (almost) end of it. You go off on MM because he's grabbing things from Day 1.

You point out what I do but do not say why it is suspicious. Do you think it is okay to base a late Day 2 suspicion entirely on an Early Day 1 issue? I don't, which is why I brought it up. I believe basing late Day 2 suspicions on Early Day 1 issues is not okay because there is so little info to work with in Early Day 1 so suspicions from there are bound to have very little support.

(Again, please no venom, because I know you're going to contest this, and I'd rather not have to wade through veiled insults)

I really don't appreciate you making this assumption about me and I don't know what you hope to gain by saying this. The only thing it would do to my attitude is rile me up further, which is exactly what you're telling me not to do to you.

- Uhm... what? "I've realized that I can't really hold not actually being on the Planet train against Almaz and have dropped that point accordingly. The rest of it..." Almaz was on the Planet train. Early on, too.

I went by what I saw in the vote count, and the Day 2 vote count doesn't have any sort of Almaz vote for Planet. For however relevant this avenue of discussion now is.

- The spinning is in taking a "he had a bad plan" to "he had a scummy plan." Bad =/= scummy, as we saw with MM. He wasn't doing so hot Day 1, but he was still Town. We know this.

I thought I explained why the plan was scummy here:

When you got to the point where you thought "Well, he might be a rolecop, but he'd have to be a scum rolecop. I'm not buying a town ubercop" why did you not immediately 86 your "Let's let Planet live and lynch Gordon instead" plan? If you sincerely (i.e. as a townie) reached that conclusion about Planet there would be no reason to leave your plan out there.

There was however a great reason for you as scum to leave that plan in there. Throw it out on the off-chance that people see it and reconsider lynching Planet whilst maintaining an air of "yeah I think Planet might be scum" so you look like you still support the Planet train. If the plan takes, then you just saved a buddy, hooray! And maybe Planet gets to live for a little while longer after that, depending on how Day 3 goes.

I also touched on it again in my previous post, but I'll say it again here for maximum clarity: the plan was scummy because it was founded on a false assumption (that scum would kill the cop claim for us) and it gave a now-confirmed scum a potential out to avoid getting lynched. This scumminess is magnified by Almaz admitting he had scrapped the plan because he didn't believe in it anymore (unless I am misunderstanding the meaning of "Almaz discredited the plan himself by proposing Planet was a scum rolecop") but still decided to post it anyway. Putting it out there at all presents the chance that other people will see it and agree with it, regardless of how much he believes it is valid.

Alice Margatroid

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 168
    • View Profile
Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #452 on: February 24, 2010, 08:39:00 AM »
I'm actually going to agree with Hazel on this one. I thought the argument looked kind of dodgy when I first saw it, but it was shot down before I had a chance to say anything about it.
Still, it's not enough to make me think Almaz is scum on its own. It's definitely not something to discredit though.

/See, we might be masons, but we can have different opinions.

//Also sorry I haven't been around much lately, working on an assignment. It's due before the weekend, so I'll be back into the game properly soon enough.

Helga Pataki

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 238
    • View Profile
Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #453 on: February 24, 2010, 10:05:51 AM »
Well, uhh... huh. Color me a damnable moron. I... guess I was reading "Axel" as "Almaz." And, really, that imaginary vote was all that was holding me back on him. Swap Almaz and Hazel, and put Hazel down a peg, and you've got my new list. Sorry 'bout all that. That also makes him telling Hiro to hammer really odd, since... I originally thought he didn't have the power to do it himself. Uhm, yeah... damn.

Also, I never meant to antagonize you, and I apologize profusely for that.

Alright, well, uhm... keeping my vote where it is, but I certainly wouldn't cry if Almaz bit it today. (Unless he's two votes under Kirk. I don't think he is, but... one sec. No, no he isn't.) Kirk is just too pivotal, IMO, in how many scum there are left. With Almaz looking so prominent, I'm less certain of the pivotal role Kirk plays, but... no, no. Kirk plays a pivotal role. And so, if it came to a tie between the two of them, as things stand now, I would prefer a Kirk lynch.

Anyway, gonna go rest up a ton and beat myself 'till I'm able to read properly again. Will hopefully be around for deadline.

Helga Pataki

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 238
    • View Profile
Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #454 on: February 24, 2010, 10:28:05 AM »
On second thought, if Almaz is scum, then lynching him has the exact same effect, and I've been a total moron allowing myself to get swept away in the "information is of the utmost importance!" mindset.

##UNVOTE: Kirk
##Vote: Almaz


(But I'm still looking at you, Kirk)

Tohsaka Rin

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 186
    • View Profile
Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #455 on: February 24, 2010, 11:27:17 AM »
Smax: Is my case really that faulty? If there is something I'm missing I would really love to hear it, but just telling me I'm tunneling (which I believe is a nonsensical accusation anyway given I've posted about plenty of other people today but I guess my definition of tunneling is different from the definition others use) does nothing to tell me what's logically wrong with the case.

The intensity of your pursuit was just a little odds with how I'd got used to you playing over the first couple days. Just kinda threw me for a loop. Some of the points are valid, need to take a closer look really because I kind of tuned Almaz out after his rabid fixation with Gordon convinced me he was just an obsessed townie. Have to go on patrol now, will be around a few hours before deadline to do some review though.

I'll note that at least Almaz is trying to defend himself. Kirk has one "I'm here" post at the start of the day and that's it. He disappears, like he's hoping things'll sort themselves out while he's not here.

Asuka Langley

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 172
    • View Profile
Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #456 on: February 24, 2010, 12:30:08 PM »
Ugh...apologies for my lateness, but I just awoke from from cryosleep. Which I swear is not me crying myself to sleep about how Kurtis is more popular than I am. Really! DEFENDERS OF EARTH never cry!

So, there's a new Comedian in Town? Guess that makes a lot of the lurking case on Comedian v.1 pretty moot...for now I'll give him a clean slate, but he can't expect to get away with doing absolutely nothing.

Almaz...is currently being jumped by a rabbit. Whose case is sort of iffy to say the least.
Quote
Hilda has already gone over why the Prinny post was obvious flailing. No one has raised any objection to this interpretation. Well, except for Almaz. Where is the stretching or the spinning?
Uh, there was my reading into his sudden defense of you. A consideration which is jumping back into the forefront with your current case.

The Planet case point I agree with, though I don't think it reads scum as much as just plain braindead because for either faction it's downright stupid. Town!Almaz shouldn't be thinking that because Planet had been scummy for ages and he himself said the claim was bad, and Scum!Almaz shouldn't be coming up with this plan for the exact same reason - it's stupid and links him absolutely to Planet. So either Almaz is an idiot who made a stupid mistake or he's an absolute genius. With a face like that, I'm leaning towards the former.

Also relevant: Why do you bring up all the above points and miss out on, say, his tunneling on me during D2? That was one of the main facts that convinced me he was just a misaimed Townie with good intentions.

Hazel's case stinks thoroughly of picking what she thinks makes a good case on Almaz and not mentioning whatever she doesn't agree with. I don't like it.

As is, though, I'm keeping my vote on Kirk, mainly because all he's done today is drop a vote on Comedian and run to the hills. Here I was thinking Picard was the only Frenchman in the Federation...

Maya Kumashiro

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 158
    • View Profile
Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #457 on: February 24, 2010, 05:22:32 PM »
Quote
As I recall, Gordon stuck to the Man in the Middle because the Man in the Middle had not posted. Once he did, Gordon announced the intent to move to Kehaar should his shift be necessary to secure a Kehaar lynch (and it ultimately was). I do not know how this equates to Gordon excusing Kehaar's flail post.

Gordon posted he was going to stay on Middleman after Prinny's flailing.  From this, we can derive that Gordon had all opportunity to read Prinny's flailing.  From this we can propose that Gordon has read Prinny's flailing post, and in light of Middleman's inactivity, found Middleman more pressing.

In light of that, we can say that, because Gordon did not find the Prinny's flailing to be worth a voteswitch, he 'excused' it enough to push Middleman ahead of the Prinny.

I'll have to chalk this up to a different way of looking at things, but between me saying I'll prefer Middleman for being thoroughly inactive and someone's vote evidencing they prefer Middleman for being thoroughly inactive, I see little difference aside from what we've said.

Quote
I do not see how Batmanuel finding the Man in the Middle to be the more town person and expressing intent to vote for Kehaar qualifies as excusing the Kehaar flail.

"Through no fault of the Prinny's".  Ergo, "the Prinny did not do anything to make me want to vote him".  In other words, "that flail post did not make me want to vote him".

I can't speak for Saber, but she voted Middleman as well after Prinny's "flailing", talking about how she felt the uniform switch to Prinny was alarming.  Really vague of course, but doesn't sound like she felt the Prinny post was "obvious scum flailing".

Quote
This makes things even worse. In light of all this, why did you still bring up your proposal to let Planet live? What modicum of pro-town intent is there in proposing that plan? Why would you bring up something you yourself do not believe in as admitted in your fourth fact and only serves as giving scum an out to avoid the day lynch?

The modicum that lynching the copclaim makes me nervous!  I posted that proposal because I had written it already, and in writing it came to the suspicion that Planet was a rolecop instead due to the absurd way he went about the claim. 

It was a necessary step in my thought process to jump to, "He must be a rolecop and was hoping for this".  I'm not deleting things I write from my post simply for fear that others'd jump on it.

Quote
That also makes him telling Hiro to hammer really odd, since... I originally thought he didn't have the power to do it himself. Uhm, yeah... damn.

Why?  Hiro said he wanted to hammer.  It's a discourtesy to take that from him and hammer personally.  Besides, I thought it was already clear I was behind a Planet lynch.

Kind of baffled now by Flay's abrupt switch from "I disagree with your case, Hazel" to "Whoah you're totally right let's lynch Almaz!". 

So uh, you're pretty much down with Hazel against me, Flay?  Well, I've said all I can about that.  I really don't know what else I can do to argue against it, it's pretty much open to interpretations.

I think Hazel's just picking what's convenient and leaving behind what isn't, and I'm growing wary of Hazel as a result.  Still, it doesn't make sense for me that scum would draw attention to themselves with a bad case...  But that's just me, so whatever, I don't have the best track record with convincing people here.

Vote stays on Kirk.  Complete lack of presence, continuous low content and actual scumhunting is left to be desired.  Tunneled on Middleman and Batmanuel, one of the two who has flipped town, keeps talking about informationlynches, disappears conveniently even if prior data shows he could've been around and hasn't had much zeal in pursuing his lynch targets at all.

Not interested in pursuing the new Comedian, would've been down with a lynch of the old one.

Flay and Tick warrant a reread, I'm absolutely unsure now where the massive town cred they got came from and with Flay's abrupt change just there, I'm sudden given second thoughts. 

Maya Kumashiro

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 158
    • View Profile
Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #458 on: February 24, 2010, 05:28:37 PM »
As is, though, I'm keeping my vote on Kirk, mainly because all he's done today is drop a vote on Comedian and run to the hills. Here I was thinking Picard was the only Frenchman in the Federation...

He did say he was going to be "beamed away on an away mission" or something like that!  So he did warn his posting would be delayed.

This means I can't hold today's continued lack of presence against him, but the previous days he's been really sparse while still dropping votes with lackluster cases.

And Flay!  Now that I think about it, can you explain why Kirk is "pivotal" as a lynch, and how my being so prominent makes Kirk less "pivotal?"  Where I come from, heroes punish the villains for being villains!  They don't punish innocents to find out who the villains are!

Helga Pataki

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 238
    • View Profile
Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #459 on: February 24, 2010, 05:37:36 PM »
Mrf. So uncertain about anything.

##UNvote: Almaz

Taking my vote off, since I'm gonna re-read the whole damn topic, which means that I probably won't be active during deadline. I just seem to be getting more and more caught up in things, and so I need to just take my mind away from this for a bit and re-read things with a fresh mind. (So, yeah. Forewarning that I'm not gonna be active for a while)

I'm... ugh. I'm totally unsure of what else to say. And now, I'm gone.

--------------------------
Ninja'd. I do think Kirk is scummy, so it's not that I'm going after him purely for information. (Or, rather, was) If you look at my post Tick gave at the beginning of the day, the information for being "pivotal" should be there. And you seeming more scummy meant it was entirely possible for Kirk to not be on a scumteam. That answer your question?

Princess Leia

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 218
    • View Profile
Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #460 on: February 24, 2010, 05:45:21 PM »
Alright, not much to say since Kirk is doing a whole lot of not showing up. Was reading back over his and Gordon's posts, and saw this line in his last Day 3 post which honestly made me laugh.

Quote
And now to close.  Yeah, I'm gonna be kinda useless for the rest of today between sleep and work, but if I do survive, the first bit of Day 4 will come during my weekend, so I'll actually be able to post and give reasoning for all of those things you want me to answer.

Sounds like a promise of time and content, but he hasn't shown up today except to lurker vote and run. Considering part of the fire Kirk's under is for not being on any of the scum lynches and there was a pretty strong lurkscum case against Comedian 1, I'm left to wonder if the vote on Comedian wasn't in hopes of getting him quicklynched so he'd have a scum lynch on his record finally. This does assume Kirk/Comedian scum team and Kirk's vote today basically being a bus attempt for cred. It's speculation, I'll grant. But considering the people it's on, Kirk and Comedian 1, it's not that much of a stretch I think.

As Almaz notes, he did say that he was going to be out, but that could be something legitimate or an excuse. Either way, it does directly contradict the fact that he said he would be around early day 4.

Anyway, stuff to do today, so I'll be back in a couple hours at most. Think I'd prefer the Kirk lynch to Almaz, so I'm still holding my vote until either Kirk shows up or it gets closer to deadline and he's still absent.

On that subject though, can we get a vote count and a statement of how long until deadline?

Princess Leia

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 218
    • View Profile
Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #461 on: February 24, 2010, 05:48:41 PM »
Realized I'd forgotten to say anything about Gordon. Spent more time reading Kirk overall. Anyway, Gordon's stuff is still leaving me with the same null read I had earlier, which isn't helpful I know, but I'm not finding anything that hasn't been said better by someone else already. I'm not pegging Gordon as anything, just a whole lot of ???

Lynch order preferance for now is really Kirk > Comedian > Almaz > Gordon > I think everyone else is town.

Asuka Langley

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 172
    • View Profile
Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #462 on: February 24, 2010, 06:42:40 PM »
Kirk (3): Flay, Gordon, Smax, Almaz
Comedian (2): Tick, Kirk, Axel, Hilda
Almaz(1): Hazel, Flay

And we have...5/6 hours remaining? Sounds like time to decide on a definite target, and that post Axel brought up should give us more than enough reason to question Kirk's RL difficulties...

Maya Kumashiro

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 158
    • View Profile
Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #463 on: February 24, 2010, 09:01:18 PM »
3 hours and... where is everyone?

Batmanuel and Hilda both have posted only once today.  So has Kirk, but... well, he excused himself sort of?  Although Axel's quote makes me reconsider that.  Huh.

Is everyone just sitting back watching Hazel and me argue?  Or unexpectedly busy that two posts in 45 hours is impossible?

Tohsaka Rin

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 186
    • View Profile
Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #464 on: February 24, 2010, 09:10:06 PM »
Sounds like a promise of time and content, but he hasn't shown up today except to lurker vote and run. Considering part of the fire Kirk's under is for not being on any of the scum lynches and there was a pretty strong lurkscum case against Comedian 1, I'm left to wonder if the vote on Comedian wasn't in hopes of getting him quicklynched so he'd have a scum lynch on his record finally. This does assume Kirk/Comedian scum team and Kirk's vote today basically being a bus attempt for cred. It's speculation, I'll grant. But considering the people it's on, Kirk and Comedian 1, it's not that much of a stretch I think.

I'm assuming that was the plan, myself. Comedian wouldn't even have to be a scumbuddy, really. I think everyone in the game has expressed doubts about Comedian 1's performance, so a scum Kirk could join in on the lynch and look just like the rest of us. Might not be ideal since he wouldn't get town cred for killing scum, but he might count on it being hard to hold against him something that the entirety of town had also done. (This post doesn't speculate on Comedian's alignment either way, just noting that a scum Kirk might see it as his safest option either way.)

Yoshiken

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2068
  • Yay!
    • View Profile
Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #465 on: February 24, 2010, 09:14:53 PM »
Day Four Votes:
Kirk (3): Flay, Gordon, Smax, Almaz
Comedian (2): Tick, Kirk, Axel, Hilda
Almaz(1): Hazel, Flay

No vote: Axel, Batmanuel, Comedian, Flay, Tick

2 hours 45 minutes remaining. With 11 alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch.

Asuka Langley

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 172
    • View Profile
Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #466 on: February 24, 2010, 09:30:35 PM »
Yyyyyyyyyyyeah we're running out of time. We really need to finalise a lynch, and personally I say we should definitely vote Kirk ahead of the Comedian right now. What with just being replaced and all it's probably a bad idea to have him so close to getting swapped in, so I'd rather we at least put Kirk a few votes ahead...

Tohsaka Rin

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 186
    • View Profile
Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #467 on: February 24, 2010, 09:39:00 PM »
Agreed, Gordon, but I can't do much about it since my vote's already there.

Who else is around right now? I'll be active until deadline.

Margaret Houlihan

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 132
    • View Profile
Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #468 on: February 24, 2010, 09:56:26 PM »
Batmanuel is here.

##Vote: Kirk

Batmanuel is angry at himself for not being able to think of more to say today, but there are Axel/Almaz misreadings and walls of text and angry rabbits that leave me scratching my head.  I still think Kirk/Comedian/Almaz are our best bets for scum, my misgivings with Comedian are based on his votes in addition to his lurking so the replacement doesn't incline me to give any slack, and... that's about it.

Nathan Greaves

  • Just wants a moment of your time
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 201
  • It'll be off the record, I promise.
    • View Profile
Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #469 on: February 24, 2010, 10:14:42 PM »
##Unvote: Almaz

Guess that isn't taking today.

Announcing intent to vote for Kirk, I'd rather see him go than the Comedian for replacement-related reasons, but I'll be around for another hour or two so I'm not going to L-1 him yet.

Yoshiken

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2068
  • Yay!
    • View Profile
Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #470 on: February 24, 2010, 11:23:03 PM »
Day Four Votes:
Kirk (4): Flay, Gordon, Smax, Almaz, Batmanuel
Comedian (2): Tick, Kirk, Axel, Hilda
Almaz(0): Hazel, Flay

No vote: Axel, Comedian, Flay, Hazel, Tick

35 minutes remaining. With 11 alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch.

Tohsaka Rin

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 186
    • View Profile
Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #471 on: February 24, 2010, 11:25:02 PM »
Idle speculation as the day winds to a close. Doing some rereading based on the assumption that scum were involved in the Middleman lynch. For yesterday, that included Hazel, Kirk, Axel, Tick, Flay, Gordon, and the Comedian. I discount Flay and the Tick as possibilities because, well, masons. Kirk looks like he'll soon be settled as an issue (is there any real reason not to put him at -1 by this point, Hazel? We're less than an hour from deadline and he has no real competition, it'd take a helluva revelation for him to get out of the hole), Comedian's been hashed over. This leaves Hazel, Gordon and Axel to consider. I've been mostly looking at Hazel given today's argument with Almaz.

Here's what looks odd to me: Hazel was on Middleman near the start of day three. Her--I'm sorry, his (that'll take some getting used to)--reason for it was pretty thin, though: lack of justification for Middleman's day two Planet vote (this is post #286, for reference). This is a vote for confirmed scum by a confirmed townie, remember. I've looked through Hazel's following posts and he sticks to this vote while almost never elaborating on his suspicion of Middleman. On its own this is just kinda weird.

The thing that gets me, though, is that Hazel had considered Middleman largely cleared on day two by virtue of Prinny's flip (post 158). Basically, he considered it unlikely that both of the major day one trains could've led to scum because, well, what were scum doing the whole time if two of their own got thrust into the spotlight like that at day's end? So, why the drastic shift on day three? Hazel's stated reason for voting Middleman doesn't seem sufficient to me, and I didn't see much in the way of a gradual transition (I could've missed it, I admit, since god so many posts, so feel free to quote anything relevant if I did overlook it, but mostly I remember a lot of talk about Almaz).

People change their minds, sure, but the shift here to a conviction of Middleman's guilt doesn't seem to occur gradually or really acknowledge the existence of the earlier, contrary opinion. It's worth noting that Hazel's restarting the Middleman case and pushing an Almaz lynch occurred at times when Kirk was one of the only other major suspects being put forth. This makes Hazel very interesting if we lynch Kirk and he flips scum.

Just noting this as something I'll want to consider tomorrow if Kirk flips scum. Will have to reconsider it all if Kirk flips town, of course, since the idea is predicated on Hazel using his recent pursuits as a distraction from a scumbuddy.

Princess Leia

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 218
    • View Profile
Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #472 on: February 24, 2010, 11:26:00 PM »
Sorry folks, got distracted playing video games and hadn't checked in in awhile.

I probably won't be around for deadline, since that same distraction caused me to put off a bunch of the things I need to do today, and as I refuse to end a day with an unused vote, I'll go ahead and put Kirk at L-1 myself.

##Vote:Kirk

I really doubt we'll see another stealth hammer anyway, considering how much flak Comedian 1 got for doing it.

Will check back in as soon as I'm done with errands and see if there's anything to talk about.

Alice Margatroid

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 168
    • View Profile
Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #473 on: February 24, 2010, 11:45:44 PM »
I'm back. I'm not really as impressed by the new Comedian as I'd have liked to be. That said, I'm even less impressed with Kirk.
Putting this back here: ##Vote Kirk
I'll be around, but nothing exciting to add unfortunately.

Nathan Greaves

  • Just wants a moment of your time
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 201
  • It'll be off the record, I promise.
    • View Profile
Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Three]
« Reply #474 on: February 24, 2010, 11:46:33 PM »
Isn't that hammer?