VALIANT HERO Mafia! [World is Saved]

[Tanaka]

... those posts, entirely too long. it seems i have the heroic prediliction of enjoying the sight of my own bloody words. will commit to brevity when i do reply to people next. i'm WoT'ing and that's a habit that annoys me, even if it's in the effort to clearly communicate data.

[Asuka Langley]

Hey, Hiro! What's the big idea!? A DEFENDER OF EARTH can stand up for himself, you know!

Still, that's a big, heaping wall. Better pull out Carter's secret weapon.

* Gordon gives himself a shot of valium.

...Aaaah. That's better.

- I don't like how he wanted me to vote Middleman when I voted him instead.  Obviously I don't like people telling me where my vote should go when I'm perfectly capable of deciding that myself!  At the time, I felt Middleman was sufficiently pressured and wanted to press Gordon.

I was afraid that you were looking for excuses to cheerlead the Middleman lynch - saying it was worth following up and yet keeping your votes away should the Middleman flip Town. Obviously, now that Saber has flipped Town as well, I admit that I was being far too forceful on you.

- He made a weird comment about Batmanuel being suspicious for beginning a train but declaring it a jokevote.  Even though the Prinny (now a confirmed scum) did so first, but somehow this eluded Gordon completely.  Despite his suspicions of Batmanuel pre-my-vote were based on the third-on-the-wheel business.

So by awkwardly phrasing 'there isn't a real case behind Batmanuel, I'm going to place my suspicions elsewhere', I've come across badly?
And I can say nothing about the Prinny incident other than 'I missed it, I'm sorry'. The best answer I can hope to offer is unfortunately WIFOM: Namely, if I was aware the Prinny had dropped the third vote first, would I have outright LIED just to start a minor wagon on Batmanuel? I certainly hope not.

- Ignores my further attempts to press him about his mention of "holding back on the bat".  I still don't know what this is supposed to mean!  It seems like a veiled excuse to jump back on Batmanuel later by 'having had suspicions of him all along'!

I have no idea what you're holding against me here. I've explained it as a bad choice of words; Manuel had not done anything sufficiently scummy to be worth voting. At the time I gave him credit for ending the RVS; by the time someone pointed out to me that he HADN'T started it, his jokevote was too far gone and too minor compared to other incidents to be worth following up on. If I'm going to hold anything against Manuel it's his later actions, i.e. his presence on the Flay wagon, but the jokevote was negligible, so I moved on.
Will that do in terms of clarifying?

Before then, his vote was on the Middleman!  Before that, Gordon, what was your reason for voting the Middleman?  Explain it away for all to see, why does Middleman's appearance justify a switch to the Prinnies?

I voted the Middleman for his passivity and lack of posting. As for why I switched...does 'guilt' qualify as an answer? I'm aware that Middleman's last-minute self-hammer ploy reeks of WIFOM, but I obviously must be a sucker for something like that because I was willing to believe him. That was what put the Prinny Squad ahead at the end of the day.

Why did you wait before transmitting your vote when it was almost deadline?  And why are you trusting the Prinny's final words?  Why do you feel they cannot be a Klingon ruse, meant to lure us away from their agents?

- I wanted to see if I could catch anyone jumping over to the Middleman wagon in order to save the Prinny. Obviously, the only person to do so was Prinny himself, which is a disappointing result. >_>
- I believed the case on Hazel was worth looking at because at the time he said she was trustworthy, he was under no pressure at all. Then, later, when the votes started piling up, he backtracked and decided that she was suspicious after all. Now that I've had time to think about it, it probably does look like WIFOM, but the pressure was hopefully worth something at least.

I really really don't like how Hiro decided to jump in and spend two posts of WoTs coming to my defense. Especially because he threw it all out and THEN said 'but he's on my list anyway for late-D1 antics'.

We've heard from the first Captain to miss the deadline. His vote was lying on the Middleman, though, so it was doing something. Meanwhile, where was Captain Planet when the lynch came around? Still holding a meaningless vote on Flay. Hell, it's bad that this is his most recent post.

The power is yours to convince me otherwise!

Anyone else find it ironic he says this and then doesn't post for the rest of the day? Middleman nearly got lynched for doing the same, and on top of that there's the 'smear campaign' incident from yesterday. Definitely worth pressuring to pipe up and contribute.

##Unvote: Hazel
##Vote: Captain Planet

Since he's being pressured as well right now, I'll add I'm cutting Tick slack given he was extremely early on the Prinny wagon.

Hopefully that clears up all the loose enOH GOD IT'S WEARING OFF

Ahahahahaha!!

Sorry to weigh you down with that loser, folks! But don't worry, Gordon's back in business!

[Tanaka]

Gordon: coming to your defense? i pursued Almaz's argument because i didn't like it - neither his nor Saber's at the time sat well with me. the argument could have been on anyone. don't care, won't care in the future when i aim to dissect other arguments. the argument itself was what i had the issue with, as finding faulty argument are one way to track down scum, and until Almaz's last posts i was not content with the content of his arguments, thus i was not content with him, thus i voted him. clear?

[Yoshiken]

Current Votes:
Hazel [-] - Gordon
Batmanuel [2] - Comedian, Kirk
Almaz [1] - Hazel, Hiro
Gordon [2] - Batmanuel, Almaz
Tick [1] - Middleman, Hiro
Kirk [1] - Middleman
Hiro [1] - Tick
Planet [2] - Smax, Gordon

No Vote: Axel, Planet, Flay, Hilda.

32 hours remain. With 14 alive, it takes 8 votes to lynch.
(Note to self: This ends at 11pm GMT tomorrow.)

[Alice Margatroid]

OMGUS much? How is effectively starting the Prinny train a null tell?  And "looking off" was early day 1. It wasn't an argument. Looks like you're grasping for a case that isn't there.
Still, I'm thinking you're not scum, since scum wouldn't go to this much effort in a move that would draw a lot of attention to themselves. Scum are afraid of OMGUSing. So ##Unvote Hiro.

Notice how I can do that all without twenty walls?

Right. Smax looks good to me.
Comedian and Almaz look bad for sticking with Middleman at the end of D1. Comedian looks worse, because I forgot he was in the game until I saw that.

##Vote Comedian.

[Tanaka]

...why do i let myself respond to this sort of thing? oh, right, easily baited into replies when i notice something interesting.

...it wasn't an argument, but you voted for him because of it. what? flay was on prinny before you, and as i said, there was no reason to believe that case would carry momentum - not when multiple other cases were ongoing at the time. we're lucky it did. but the fact that you chose to place your vote there instead of anywhere else nine hours to deadline arouses my suspicion - it's only that we know he was scum that stops me from considering it a flat-out scum tell.

and congrats on lacking walls of text! dissecting arguments requires those sometimes (shock. awe. horror.), and i'd consider walls of text superior over mudslinging, refusing to provide any explanation for the mudslinging, and now what seems like hopping off at pressure while attempting to handwave earlier behavior that wasn't in the jokevote period.

vote stands.

[Helga Pataki]

Hahahahahahaha! I escaped! But I must make this quick. Luckily, I made a few notes before arriving!

1. I can't find exactly who, but I know that The Tick has had his post (wherein he voted for the accursed penguin) used against him and for him. What is going on here?

2. Hiro! Your name does you no justice! The Tick did not vote Planet in the same post as he said he "looked kinda off" nor did have any less than a real case on the accursed penguin upon his voting of it!

3. Where are Comedian and Planet? I would also appreciate seeing more of Smax and Hazel and Middleman. They have felt rather... lacking, of late. Axel and Hilda as well, if it can be managed.

[Tanaka]

Flay: ah-ha. thanks for catching that for me. you are correct, his vote for captain planet was during the jokevote phase, but he attempted to justify it during that "looked kinda off" post. so he voted for CP as a jokevote but then decided to keep it on there when jokevote phase ended? that... completely fails to countermand any of the rest of the argument. thanks for catching my mistake there, regardless.

[Maya Kumashiro]

- I wanted to see if I could catch anyone jumping over to the Middleman wagon in order to save the Prinny. Obviously, the only person to do so was Prinny himself, which is a disappointing result. >_>

You lost me.  Can you explain in simple terms?

You should've said from the start why you were voting Hazel.  Now it seem an after-thought! (although heroes are known to leap first and think leter when a damsel is in distress)

[Tron Bonne]

So I’ve been reading Day 1 posts.

The first thing that stands out to me is how weak all the votes against Middleman are. I think holding your vote until something is actually going on isn’t a terrible idea, and the ridiculous flak that occurred due to this is a little absurd. The most damning thing about Middleman is that he seems to hold onto suspicion to the person he unvoted without a good reason to unvote him.

Unfortunately, Middleman does little to actually try to defend himself by putting forth a weak (actually barely existent) case on Hazel.

I’ve also been trying to analyze the chances that Prinny would be trying to bus Flay vs. trying to lynch a townie. I strongly strongly suspect that the Prinny and Flay are not allies because Flay’s formulating an argument on Prinny before anyone else did and it felt like Prinny was trying to push the train against him. So in other words I am going to treat Flay as basically clear for the time being since, while dissatisfied with some of his posts, I think the evidence presented points to him not being scum.

I think that the end of Day 1 madness is really hard to judge without knowing Middleman’s alignment, unfortunately. Scum flailing between two scum isn’t very telling at all, scum flailing between town and scum is very telling. Unlike Smax I don’t think that Middleman is cleared at all; scum and town can both suffer from inactivity and being lazy. However I am a sucker for the seemingly genuine suicidal townie so I will try not to let that affect my decisions.

i do not buy the logic used by yourself or Saber (Saber flipping town means relatively little here) to press the vote on Gordon, and your choice to not switch votes from Middleman to prinny could be read either as confusion or simply as scum abstaining from a swap to a partner. for now, please elaborate the justification for the gordon vote in day 1. short post yeah right when have i managed one of those?

I was thinking about this too. I was thinking that it might be a ploy to clear oneself by a scum; that person who did the same thing is town!

I think Hiro’s posts have been really informative, helpful, and have a lot of content. Hiro is pretty close to last on the people I suspect. I think people who complain about his posts being long need to cry less.

I think the Tick is playing extremely lazily and is trying to use ‘starting the train’ as his defense for being town.

OMGUS much? How is effectively starting the Prinny train a null tell?  And "looking off" was early day 1. It wasn't an argument. Looks like you're grasping for a case that isn't there.
Still, I'm thinking you're not scum, since scum wouldn't go to this much effort in a move that would draw a lot of attention to themselves. Scum are afraid of OMGUSing.

I think the most compelling case for us is that until this point you haven't actually DONE anything. I’m sorry, but I’m not going to blame someone for OMGUSing someone who barely presents an argument at all at them.

Comedian and Almaz look bad for sticking with Middleman at the end of D1. Comedian looks worse, because I forgot he was in the game until I saw that.

I basically agree. I elaborate on this a bit more later.

I find the Gordon vs. Almaz dialogue really interesting. I actually find myself distrusting both a bit on a reread of Day 1:

The thing that really bothers me about Almaz is just… wow.

WHOA! Why is everyone suddenly going after me, dood?

First of all, dood, I don't really see the problem in bandwagoning with good reason. Most of the votes on middleman had intention of getting him to talk, doods! When that Flay dood voted, all he did was apologize for the case on Kirk, and gave one reason for the vote on middleman. The same reason everyone else did before him, too, dood.

...but I guess everyone else on the same wagon could be accused of that, dood. Of that though, dood, only the rabbit and Flay were the ones who didn't talk about anybody else yet.

Also, why that middledood getting off the hook now? His last post was just a vote made on Hazel doing that same thing as your and Hazel's vote for him. There's way too much hypocracy going around to pin this all on me, dood. whoa, dood. That felt good saying something like that out loud for once!

I guess since I read that rabbit's posting again, it really is just one reason covered in flavor, dood. I Should know better than to use the amount of words as a gauge for content, huh doods? Especially since Demons are always lying. Always, dood. I think lynching middleman or the rabbit would be a much better choice than me, doods!

I also don't like the look of Hiro's vote change, dood. How much time did you think we had when you made it? And did you really vote someone because you wanted to ask them about a case they made, dood? Is that really worth a vote?

How can Almaz  ignore the incredible amount of flailing going on here and say that lurking is worse that making incredibly scummy posts? The fact that he didn’t bother voting for Middleman (setting up for a hammer anyone?) is a really bad thing, and Almaz seems to be fine with this terrible terrible justification. I know that this is basically the argument that the rabbit made but I have been forming opinions in fragments without reading the whole topic at once, but rather piecemeal observing things that caught my eye in Day 1.

I feel decently comfortable with an Almaz lynch because I feel like his contributions are slim, his continued voting for Middleman despite the terrible post is just bad, and today he seems content on having a fight with Gordon.

##VOTE: Almaz

This seems to be what a couple of people have keyed in on, but there is basically no excuse for outright ignoring that post, considering that the forums inform you of something posted while you post just in case he was working on the post while that occurred.

I will addressed more parties later but this post is already way longer than I really intended.

[Princess Leia]

No vote? What the hell, mod? I had a vote down on Middleman since my first post today. Well, It's obvious I'm pretty alone in keeping those suspicions today, so ##Unvote:Middleman anyway.

And now for...words. Wordswordswordswordswords. Hiro, dude, I know you're from a stuffy old book instead of a kickass video game, but no need to drop an avalanche of text on us like that. Still managed to make myself read it all. On the one hand, I'm not as convinced about Almaz as you are, but on the other I'm glad you pulled off him and voted at the Tick since it prompted one hell of a lame response. Torn between voting Almaz and tick right now, the former due to the same stuff I/Hazel/Hilda mentioned already, and Tick for this post. That's blatently trying to start a fight if I've ever seen it, which is a pretty classic scum tactic.

Think I'm going to stick with a ##Vote:Almaz for now.

I do want to ask where the hell is Captain Planet? He didn't show up end of day one, and unless I'm blind I didn't see a post from him today yet either.

[Princess Leia]

Just checked back over to make sure and it turns out I'm not blind. This is some pretty hardcore lurking, and his posts yesterday weren't exactly inspiring anyway. Since Middleman is apparently off the table, my suspect list is now along the lines of Almaz=Tick>Planet, just to get it out there.

[Yoshiken]

No vote? What the hell, mod? I had a vote down on Middleman since my first post today.

My bad. Missed that due to it being in the middle of a line.

Current Votes:
Middleman [-] - Axel
Hazel [-] - Gordon
Batmanuel [2] - Comedian, Kirk
Almaz [3] - Hazel, Hiro, Hilda, Axel
Gordon [2] - Batmanuel, Almaz
Tick [1] - Middleman, Hiro
Kirk [1] - Middleman
Hiro [-] - Tick
Planet [2] - Smax, Gordon
Comedian [1] - Tick

No Vote: Planet, Flay.

Just over 28 hours remain. With 14 alive, it takes 8 votes to lynch.
(Note to self: This ends at 11pm GMT tomorrow.)

[Chiaki]

Gentlemen and ladies, I put in some elbow grease and would like to present a little something.  Allow me to present- Every Post By The Tick. ADA, the projector please!

Day 1:
First post is a jokevote on Captain Planet a half hour after game starts. Total lines of text, 2. Fine, it's Jokevote, moving on.

Second post: Strongly agrees with the post directly above him! A post that's about 80% flavor and 20% a pressure vote on me. However remains "Suspicious of Captain planet" and leaves his jokevote where it is before giving a flavor high five to Flay and running off. Seven lines of text total, one sizable picture.

Third post is shortly after the second, explaining his Captain Planet suspicion. He calls out Planet's case on Kirk as being bad and cites that as the reasoning to vote. Now, I agree it's a bad case. But as I said early, it's suspiciously bad. It feels like a scum spacing case- something to fight over on Day 1 and separate each other. His justification for not changing his voting, thought, is based on there not being a recent votecount. That's the least objectionable thing I've seen from him.

Fourth Post: A sizable posts- Tick jumps off the planet, which wasn't going anywhere (As planned?) and jumps on the Prinny vote, second. Starts with that weirdly precise line, "At least one of those three are scum." From a scum perspective, it looks like a fine bit of vote churning in place of content. After all, how could a Prinny train get started with only two votes, when I have six? (Never mind that the actual vote post is four lines of text and a huge block quote.)

But, roll the train does, and that's when the Tick vanishes. In too deep to unvote and shift trains, he ducks out of sight and lets it ride.

Day 2:
He posts after my calling out of him and doesn't address any of it. He fires at Hiro on pretty shaky grounds in five lines of text and another huge picture.

His second post of the day has actual content! Problem being the content is junk. His theory appears to be, "I'm not scum because I'm removing my vote after you voted me, because only scum OMGUS. I'm as townie as the person I'm not voting. " And as an aside, (Not that I'm advocating walls of text, but I've found Hiro's in particular to be not so bad), his "too many words" argument was the same one that Prinny used on day 1. The best argument he can come up with after all that is a shot at a low-poster on the MiddleTrain from Day 1.
I'm pretty certain of this one, and Kirk isn't gathering steam.

##Unvote  Kirk
##Vote The Tick

[Nathan Greaves]

That is exactly the flayrah I wanted from Hilda - except for me still wanting to know what was up with the Captain Planet vote but hopefully that is to come in her next post - and it lowers my concerns with her considerably. Extra kudos for getting it out without needing to be specifically called out for her silence. It is unlikely I will pursue her lynch today even if I do not get my way with Almaz.

I support the Gordon case, I did not much appreciate being hunted down due to the transgressions of others and that switch to Planet is Pipkin levels of weak. He doesn't address his vote for me at all after his fellow men grow suspicious of him, he just shifts to a lurker. This looks like a total tunnel collapse under pressure.

Don't like the taste of the Hiro case, his vote was a pretty important one in bringing Keehar to justice. I'm pretty sure I already said this.

I was initially unsure about the Tick case. My Day 1 reread placed him in the middle of the pack with Hilda and the Comic, all players I wasn't quite sure what to make of. They all seemed to float through Day 1 like a gentle spring breeze. Perhaps I should be wary of Tick and the Comic for this reason. The Tick pushing Hiro today does not sit well with me either, and the Man in the Middle says some good things in the post about this one...hmm. Yes, upon reflection, I believe I can support this case, though there are others I think are worse.

I am content to remain on Almaz for the time being. Hilda has already repeated why Keehar's defense post is truly bad for me, so I won't restate it again. Gordon has pushed himself above Batmanuel for my second choice - Batmanuel's silence is aggravating, yes, but it's not worse than that terribad Captain Planet swing from Gordon.

The Tribble does, in fact, mention what is the best example of what might have been a cover for Mr. Middleman, if he is actually Klingon scum.  Mr. Valentine states a marked preference for her own case, right before moving onto something completely different, giving it time to note that no one is interested before moving on.  Given the state of the game at the time, it is clear that no other train would have a chance to form without a presentation of confidential information (what used to be called a role claim).

Even before her most recent post, I had a very hard time seeing Hilda as scum trying to rescue her friends by pursuing someone with no votes. Flay and Gordon would have been much better candidates.

[Maya Kumashiro]

Ms Valentine, there's just an incredible lot of WIFOM in that argument right there.  Killing Saber as a ploy to say "but a confirmed town did the same!" is a right interesting suggestion.  I guess the flaw in that argument is that I never even once used Saber to justify myself for voting Gordon, and I haven't intended to do that either.

That's just a WIFOM mess you're holding against me, and I can't even reasonably argue against that.  Scum killed someone Night 1 because of Reason X, and Reason X is always unknown to town.  Building cases based on your Reason X is dodgey.

I find the Gordon vs. Almaz dialogue really interesting. I actually find myself distrusting both a bit on a reread of Day 1:

The thing that really bothers me about Almaz is just… wow.

I already said I viewed the Prinny as being incredibly bad town.  If he is an incredibly experienced player he wouldn't even have flailed to begin with, because they know it's damning: so I can only assume it's a new player who doesn't know that kind of thing'd get them lynched, and think it was just incredibly bad town play.  I felt pitiful for him and didn't want him to die because of a fluke.  Yes, he turned out scum, but is everyone really going to hold it against me that I don't have foresight?  And everyone is fine with Gordon's stunts at the end of Day 1?  Looks like I just can't win that.

I feel decently comfortable with an Almaz lynch because I feel like his contributions are slim, his continued voting for Middleman despite the terrible post is just bad, and today he seems content on having a fight with Gordon.

Pot calling the kettle black?

And yes, I'm content with pursuing Gordon until I feel less bad about him.  I still don't understand what he meant to do with the last minute vote-switching.  Middleman rattled me enough that I didn't know what to think but didn't want to jump onto the one I felt was just bad town, but this prompted Gordon to pull some weird shenanigans and act out a little dance and play with the Prinny.

Even if a hero stands alone with his convictions, a hero never gives up.  Neither will I.

[Maya Kumashiro]

Although a hero is everyone's beacon of hope, I'm not too keen on being in the spotlight this entire day!  I stand by my words, I won't have town tunnel-visioned into just one person!  ... Especially not me!

I don't really like Captain Planet.  He strikes me as the kind of person who'd report on crimes rather than try and sleuth who the culprit is. 

Looks like Hiro has been contra those who voted Gordon from the very start.  I don't really understand where this stark refusal to let Gordon be voted on comes from!  Here he votes Saber for voting Gordon, demanding "all others" (i.e. me) to justify the vote for Gordon.  It seems he misunderstands Saber's "hysterics", which I believe to refer to Gordon calling out Saber and me for not voting the Middleman here:

The Middleman's convenient silence is not helping his cause, but more distressing is the number of people giving lip-service to the case! Cheerleading, even! It has been noted that he's only at L-4, so fear of a quickhammer is not a worthwhile excuse, villains! Miss Saber and Almaz have both declared him to be thoroughly suspicious, so why do they place their votes elsewhere?

Tick says that one of the three on Flay (Captain Planet, Prinny, Batmanuel) is likely scum. Smax and Gordon agree, which is interesting in that only Smax specifies someone, and he specifies Captain Planet.  While we're on the subject of accusing me of pretending not to know the Prinny's alignment, may I accuse Gordon of the same?

The Flay wagon reeks of a scummy intent to produce a second wagon ASAP to me. I'm willing to second the calls that one of the its members is likely scum.

Okay, please read these posts: 1 - 2 - 3.

Only the third post is after Middleman's re-appearance, and I didn't check but until then his vote is on Middleman.  He does declare willingness to swap for the Prinnies, ultimately doing so after the little waltz with the penguin! 

- I wanted to see if I could catch anyone jumping over to the Middleman wagon in order to save the Prinny. Obviously, the only person to do so was Prinny himself, which is a disappointing result. >_>

I still don't see who he was hoping to 'catch', and what that would prove!  I'm sorry this comes back to Gordon, but I sincerely believe he is scum.  His latest post there has made me less wary, and I see what we started off on can have well been my misinterpretation of his messages, but I can't shake this feeling about him!

[Tanaka]

augh, IE ate post. in short pleased with Hazel/Hilda contributions, Hazel's noticed something that I wanted independent backup on (the Middleman/prinny/lack of third train option pushed) and Smax also caught this.

this being said, re: Hilda/others, not totally impressed with the charge against Almaz. issue with using the prinny post against him? it is very easy for town to be very bloody nervous at end of day about who they should be aiming on - i have no hesitation admitting i was freaked as fuck and the only reason i stuck to prinny was the Middleman argument reread gave me bad vibes. there are a few other points i can be sympathetic to, but that one strikes me a bit off.

i suppose the more summarily thing to say would be "you weren't there, please do not knock too highly the hesitations of those that were".

i'll keep an eye on that case for now.

Middleman: thanks for covering the size/content ratio in far more detail than i did, and that helps shore up the case.

Axel: my book goes into a forty-page diversion of sumerian mythology and language. you get what you invited. Y.T. might have been less long-winded, tho.

in final, i wish i had a second vote to punch CP with.

back in a few hours, going through wakeup rituals.

[Chad Hutchins]

Apologies for lack of presence, I had originally planned to be around but was unexpectedly hit with a large workload.  My lack of presence into today was mainly me having exhausted a good portion of my powers and recuperating.  Well enough of that then lets get on to the discussion at hand.

I do not understand many peoples eagerness to outright clear middleman of his poor day 1 performance just because he did a survival vote on the confirmed scummy penguin, poor thing must have gotten caught in an oil spill.  As has been said, for all we know that self vote could have been a scum ploy such to save the one with a power role, but I will agree that end day chaos is needlessly deep in WIFOM to discuss, so we'll set that aside for now.

Middleman's vote on Kirk post is filling my brain with smog, it strikes me as just reading the post wrong, however, he fails to elaborate in his post where he changes back to the Tick, even stating he still doesn't like Kirk at the very end, even though he was questioned about his understanding.

However, since people seem adamant about leaving him for later, lets take a look at what else is going on.

Gordon does not look particularly clean to me at the moment, others have pretty much said all there can be said, his initial case being based off of the Penguin's words was a bad start, and his distrust of the Hiro walls of text don't sit well with me, since I find them to be a good attempt at being useful and rather informative myself.

Speaking of which, I pretty much agree with the case on the Tick as it stands, he really strikes me as trying to accuse without trying to give fleshed at reasons.

##Vote: The Tick

My apologies for not having much else to say at this time, while the WoT were interesting, my brain was already half reduced to smudge when I started, and I'm afraid that now my thought process is particularly hazy.  I will rest a bit until I can regain my powers and produce something with better fruit.

For now I'll just leave this post on general thoughts to show that I'm still alive, if not severely weakened from some previous heroic deeds that where occupying my time.  I particularly intend to reread the interactions between Almaz and Gordon.

[Tohsaka Rin]

Nrgh. That's a lot of words, guys. A LOT of words. But I struggled through and came out with a few things. I'm gonna give you guys a bullet list since that was how the sarge always did briefings:

-Hiro/Middleman's case against Tick looks very good, moreso for the Tick's reaction. Accuses Hiro of OMGUS, says Hiro is likely town because scum are afraid of using OMGUS. Uh-huh. Is that a good tell or a bad one, man? Make up your mind. Agree this looks like mudslinging. Only thing Tick really has going for him is the early vote for Prinny, which coulda just looked like a safe place for him to leave his vote at the time. Probably going to move my vote here since again no one's joining me on Planet (guess I can't blame them--the world I came from was a shithole).

-I dunno at this point whether Almaz is scum trying to force a case or just totally obsessed town. Kinda split on this since I can see him just wanting to convince someone about his suspicions if he's town, but a lot of his text looks like someone reading something out of nothing. Really want to see him move on to something other than Gordon. Not that I'm sure of Gordon's innocence, just makes Almaz hard to deal with when most of his talk's just rabidly going after one person. And I really, really, really don't want to wade through another mess like that dance between Almaz and Hiro.

-Comedian's still barely here and coasting easily. I don't like this. Same for Bats. You said you noticed something in the voting patterns late yesterday, eurofruit. Going to explain that at some point, buddy? I hope you are. And this looks pretty weird to me:

Beginning with now, wherein Gordon's abrupt sniping flip looks like a rather coordinated bus attempt, followed with a vote against Hazel based on Prinny's words.  Batmanuel does not like this!

Coordinated with who? Gordon made the first vote of the day; for a bad reason, I agree, but since no one followed up on it this statement of yours looks pretty damned empty.

Run-down of where I see people right now basically in order of how much I suspect them. Sorta for my own reference, ignore it if you don't like lists; I'm gonna do some digging and take a close look at the folks in the bottom two groups:

Hiro/Flay: Lookin' good. I've already explained why I think we can take Hiro at face value and his recent arguments make sense (even if he does talk too damned much). Flay did a lot to get Prinny lynched yesterday and had some of the scummiest people around on his tail; looks to me like scum thought they had an easy case they could hide in and it blew up in their faces. Seems like we can trust him for now.
Axel/Middleman: Axel just hadn't said anything to make me look at him funny (yet) and he's mostly been on cases I agree with. I can't reconcile scum Middleman with the way things went down yesterday. Call me emotional if you want (I DARE you), but I believe his actions were what they seemed on the face of things. I admit he has a bit of record to get past, but I like his approach to the Tick.
Hazel/Hilda: Neutral. There've been some gaps where I forget they're here, but they're active now and the material reads okay.
Kirk/Gordon/Almaz: Could be town, could be scum. I dunno about these guys, really. There are some things that seem off but the cases against them haven't been able to convince me yet. Could change.
Bats/Comedian/Tick: BatComic are the lurker crew. These guys aren't giving us much of anything to work with and that really bothers me. Tick just looks all kinds of shady right now in light of the analysis the folks at the top of my list put forth and the bug's bad response to it.

You'll notice I don't have Planet in there anywhere. I don't know what to think now that he's alive again; post doesn't look bad on a first read, at least. Gonna throw down on Tick right now anyway since he's pretty glaring.

##Unvote: Captain Planet
##Vote: The Tick

Gonna take a walk, turn things over in my head, come back and look at stuff again.

[Princess Leia]

Alright, I take back any accusations of non-contribution I've directed at the Middleman, that's a damn good breakdown of the Tick case. And I'll concede that the end of day one antics could just be emo-town, god knows that happens in DL mafia often enough. Unless he starts going into hardcore lurk mode or posting lame stuff, consider the case dropped.

Almaz vs Gordon is still giving me a bit of a headache. I think I get what Gordon's tallking about with "setting a trap" at the end of day one. Kinda clumsy and didn't work, but it woulda been pretty slick if it did. On the other hand, Almaz's last couple of posts are actually making me feel better about him, aside from the statment of disliking tunnel vision while doing just that on Gordon. It's not the what he's saying so much as how he's saying it, reminds me of something I've seen a few times, a townie rabidly clinging onto a case even under heavy pressure. But I'll readily admit that's not based on anything concrete, so I'm not sure how much stock to put in it.

I do know that at least it's enough to push Tick over Almaz, so I may as well ##Unvote:Almaz, ##Vote:Tick.

And there's Planet, with a pretty basic post. Like the Tick vote, don't like the excuses. Do want to hear what he thinks of Almaz/Gordon as he's promising though.

Ninjad by Smax there, but doesn't seem like anything I need to comment on. Hey Smax, glad to see you back around. Even if you are emotional.

[Yoshiken]

Current Votes:
Middleman [-] - Axel
Hazel [-] - Gordon
Batmanuel [2] - Comedian, Kirk
Almaz [2] - Hazel, Hiro, Hilda, Axel
Gordon [2] - Batmanuel, Almaz
Tick [5] - Middleman, Hiro, Middleman, Planet, Smax, Axel
Kirk [-] - Middleman
Hiro [-] - Tick
Planet [1] - Smax, Gordon
Comedian [1] - Tick

No Vote: Flay.

22 hours remain. With 14 alive, it takes 8 votes to lynch.
(Note to self: This ends at 11pm GMT tomorrow.)

And, Axel (and everyone else, but yeah), would appreciate votes/unvotes being on a new line. I keep missing them as it is. =P

[Tohsaka Rin]

I've been looking at the Comedian and Bats. Want to draw attention to a couple things.

First...well, the Comedian in general. He barely exists. Really, this is what he gave us day one once everyone was done with the joke votes: a vote for Captain Planet; a vote for Middleman; a post saying that he was staying on Middleman instead of Prinny. Now, the reasons he gave for those votes sound okay...as long as you don't remember that someone else said all that first. Votes Planet for trying to smear Kirk, votes Middleman for that great disappearing act he did. Okay, that sounds reasonable, but it's all cloned material and Comedian doesn't do much to build on it. He does call out Bats today on something I don't think had been said yet, but that's really all I can give him. This guy's seriously flying under the radar and I think you guys should take a look at him once we're done with the Tick (regardless of what we wind up doing with him) just for being...what's the word you people use..."lurkerrific?" That sounds right.

As for Eurotrash...Batty's last post from day one looks weirder and weirder the more I think about it. Said he saw something important in the votes that made him worry about Middleman being town. A couple of us have asked him about this but not received an answer (and he has posted today). Actually, he sorta retcons the whole thing today:

Towards the end of the day Batmanuel did not see anything outstanding on anyone, and assumed that both Minuteman and Prinny were town being trained on for poor play or saying the wrong things at the wrong time.  I will not make so many assumptions in the future!

Waitaminute...I thought you said you saw something in the votes that made you think twice, not that Middleman was going down for "bad play." I'm starting to wonder if Bats has ignored our questions about this on purpose. I'm gonna quote his post from yesterday again. Bear with me here.

What in the blazes?  People are following Batmanuel's cases? 

I mean!  People are following Batmanuel's cases!  Yes.  Uh... okay!  Batmanuel is surprised.  He does not really support a Middleman lynch today and would still prefer Flay to Prinny, but sometimes we cannot have what we want.  Especially on day 1.  Hmm.  Batmanuel suggests if the candidates are here and have any useful claims to make that they should; he is preparado to vote Prinny, not through any particular fault of Prinny's but by looking at the vote patterns and thinking Minuteman is likely town...

He asks for claims and then says he's prepared to vote for Prinny (which he doesn't do). The fact that he says he's ready to do this suggests that he meant to stick around and see how things went. But then he doesn't say anything for the rest of the day (which had just a couple hours left by then) despite being questioned directly about his post by myself and Almaz. Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but I think maybe Bats bugged out because he didn't want to either help kill a scumbuddy or be seen hammering Middleman (this whole idea hinges on Middleman being town, of course; said my piece on that, though) and if he vanished no one could press him to commit to something other than a Flay case that was going nowhere. The talk about seeing something in the votes was just there to make it look like he was considering things.

Guys, think I'm on to something here, or just chasing shadows? Staying on Tick right now anyway since he's got his own problems, but I wonder what people think of this.

[Over 9000]

To those who are wondering where I am: Let's say that my employer gives me a steady amount of.... heroic contracts. A hero's work is never done as they say.


Wow... You sure like to talk a lot. A real pain, trying to read everything... :s

Err.... Right.

How to build on something that's already been said (right, ninja smax?)

Flay, I take it you agree with what Kirk's been saying? Of course you are. Out of all the people who haven't been on much, on that list of yours, Kirk's not there for some reason. So why don't you elaborate on your views on the Bat and Gordon?

As for myself, still waiting on the Bat's explanations. As far as the Middleman thing goes, doubt he was scum. Why would 2 of them be on the chopping block at the very begginning of our endeavour? As far as Gordon's last minute hammer vote goes. I guess someone had to. Sure, could be viewed, but whichever way the hammer went: If Middleman got knocked dead, the hammerer would get heat for voting off Town (Yes, based on what's happened today, I think is Town, looking at it from this perspective.) And whoever voted off Scum would get heat from potential Town cred acquiring attempt.

So Flay, I realize you have exams and such. But you've still been around... nothing hurts to elaborate more, right?

And as far as the vote on the Bat, it stands until he explains himself.
Tick is L-3, so let's give him a chance to defend himself at least.

[Bill Hellsnake]

Mr. Smax, I'd like to add that the Jester's Mission 2 Transmission also doesn't mean anything.  He votes for Ears, yes, but his case is entirely based around Ears taking credit for things he didn't do.  But, those feel oddly like flavor.

As for Ears, most of those are things I've already mentioned, so I'm glad you agree, and am strongly supportive of the case.

On to other things.  I am...  still not ready to give Mr. Middleman a free walk.  As has been pointed out by Mr. Axel there's a good chance that by the time the Prinny train took off, it was either deemed too late to change things and they let it happen.  Alternatively, it's possible that the scum allowed it to happen, feeling that while they would lose one member, another would manage to survive.  Mr. Middleman's attempted suicide would then also be planned.

Unlike Mr. Axel, I don't feel this suspicion is pressing enough to ignore other, stronger cases.  But I also feel that it's questionable enough that to simply ignore the possibility is the sort of mistake that has doomed other, lesser, captains in the past.

Mr. Tick is something of an enigma.  My gut, my human spirit says he's Town, but logic says he's likely Klingon scum.  That Mr. Gunnar was the first on the Prinny takes away a lot of what I felt was strong about him, but he still moved his vote at a time when the situation was in flux, and the train on Mr. Middleman was never that strong, founded as it was in his inaction, and not in his actions.  As well, in a gathering like this, confidence is in no short supply.  That his vote should involve more confidence than he might deserve should not be shocking.  And the style of his claim of at least one scum being on Mr. Gunnar feels more Town than Klingon.

While I would recommend that he use more explaination, and that he use less flavor in his transmissions, I do not, at this time, feel he is worse than the Jester or Ears.