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Author Topic: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [World is Saved]  (Read 60629 times)

Nathan Greaves

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Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #425 on: February 23, 2010, 09:04:18 PM »
It was a copclaim.  Which, after I provided arguments against the validity of the claim, still had me unsure of it and I thought there was, perhaps, a way to guarantee the claim.  I mentioned afterwards it was possible he was a rolecop instead and abandoned the plan when it was pointed out that it wasn't a good idea.  There's hardly any "push" involved.

The fact that you proposed it at all is enough to be considered a "push" and giving up on it after other people pointed out how unabashedly bad it was does nothing for you. The fact remains that you proposed an idea that boils down to "Hey, copclaim, scum will definitely kill that overnight, right? Let's lynch this other less suspicious guy instead" and did not delete this idea from your post even after all the indecision you presented later in that same post. When you got to the point where you thought "Well, he might be a rolecop, but he'd have to be a scum rolecop. I'm not buying a town ubercop" why did you not immediately 86 your "Let's let Planet live and lynch Gordon instead" plan? If you sincerely (i.e. as a townie) reached that conclusion about Planet there would be no reason to leave your plan out there.

There was however a great reason for you as scum to leave that plan in there. Throw it out on the off-chance that people see it and reconsider lynching Planet whilst maintaining an air of "yeah I think Planet might be scum" so you look like you still support the Planet train. If the plan takes, then you just saved a buddy, hooray! And maybe Planet gets to live for a little while longer after that, depending on how Day 3 goes.

I'm not going to go over why predicating a plan on who scum will NK is bad, it should be self-evident.

Hilda has already addressed your response to my point about your Day 3 Batmanuel stuff, (a) and (b) were basically exactly what I was going to say.

Speaking of.

Hilda: To be honest, I don't like my voting record very much either. However, this feeling is founded in flips only - I feel I have properly substantiated each of my post-Day 1 votes. I was wrong about the Man in the Middle, yes, but I do not think I was wrong for scummy reasons.

On the subject of my quip about your Comedian vote, from your response I have decided it best if we agree to disagree for now, as our differences in opinion seem to stem from deep-rooted Mafia philosophy that I would be glad to discuss postgame but would be a pointless distraction right now. I will say that you are nowhere near the top of my scum list, even taking that first Comedian vote into account. I'd say it looks something like this right now, in descending order of scumminess (I think I've substantiated most of these opinions throughout the game so I'm not repeating them here):

Almaz
Kirk/Comedian
Gordon (could possibly be on the same level as Kirk and the Comic, not 100% sure how I feel here)
Batmanuel
Hilda/Flay/Tick
Axel/Smax

Yes, the mason pair is not at the bottom of my list. The Tick's play has been so terrible at times that it is actually making me slightly consider the idea of a mason claim gambit in the face of pressure (Prinny had just bit it, town then turned on Tick). They are still very far down my list because of how unlikely it is just by virtue of it being a mason claim, but I cannot honestly say I trust Tick more than Axel and Smax, who have done basically no wrong in my eyes this entire game.

Margaret Houlihan

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Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #426 on: February 23, 2010, 09:07:56 PM »
Batmanuel feels... slightly vindicated?  I've been trying to think of new insights but nothing particularly has changed, Kirk or Comedian.  Leaning Comedian since Kirk's post strikes me as genuine and, well, Comedian hasn't posted today.  I'm not going to vote him up to L-1 without him even posting though.

Hazel and Almaz should cool down, though.  Batmanuel suggests sexual experimentation.

Nathan Greaves

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Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #427 on: February 23, 2010, 09:11:10 PM »
If my arguments come off as me getting into a tizzy, then I apologize. I can assure you that's not the case.

Unimportant aside: I just remembered to point out that Hazel (the character) is actually male, since Hilda used a female pronoun (as some others before her have). The number of female pronouns sent my way disappoints me only in the sense of demonstrating how many DLers have never read Watership Down. :(

Nathan Greaves

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Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #428 on: February 23, 2010, 09:11:55 PM »
(And yes, Keehar = Prinny, as long as I'm clarifying things)

Asuka Langley

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Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #429 on: February 23, 2010, 09:42:24 PM »
Hey, things are getting a little hot in here! Almaz, Hilda, time out!

My opinion of Almaz being misguided is becoming more and more uncertain over time, given that there seems to be a bit of AtE between him and Hilda now. I still feel more of a 'really misled Townie' vibe from him than I do from Comedian and Kirk, though, so my voting preference is still Kirk = Comedian > Almaz. The 'LET'S NOT LYNCH THE COPCLAIM NO-ONE BELIEVES' idea still feels off, though...

On that note, I don't know how much more we can do before the masked crusader makes a public appearance. He's already at L-2, so propping him further means that when he does show up he could pull another quicklynch and cut discussion short again.

And as a final note, I apologise for my lack of knowledge of literature and rabbit anatomy. If it isn't in space and I don't have to DEFEND THE EARTH from it, it's not in my job description!

Yoshiken

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Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #430 on: February 23, 2010, 09:48:27 PM »
Vote count coming shortly. Just clarifying: He's asked to be replaced, and I've got a willing replacement, so Comedian has now been replaced. Sorry about any inconvenience~

Tohsaka Rin

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Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #431 on: February 23, 2010, 09:51:08 PM »
Slow goin'. I'm in the same boat as Bats here, really--it feels like everything's been said about the folks in the lead for votes. Until they come back and respond to the votes, at least. Day's been running for close to twenty-four hours now, though, and we've got almost nothing from Kirk and definitely nothing from Comedian. I wonder if Kirk's cursory post at the start of the day was just to make it look like he's around so he can coast through a Comedian lynch.

Gordon, are you suggesting Comedian would quicklynch himself? What would be the point?

...And there goes the mod. Well, great, lategame replacement of a suspicious player. Nothing ominous about this or reminiscent of another game, nosir. (This isn't a serious argument, just paranoia going into overdrive.)

Over 9000

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Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #432 on: February 23, 2010, 10:20:39 PM »
Replacement here, going over the game now, should have a post up in two to three hours hopefully.

Asuka Langley

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Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #433 on: February 23, 2010, 10:41:20 PM »
Gordon, are you suggesting Comedian would quicklynch himself? What would be the point?
If he was scum and had nothing useful to say in his defense, cutting the day short at least would prevent Town from talking. Cutting off conversation is very anti-Town.

Then again, given he's been replaced, I guess that theory doesn't hold. I suppose we'll need to see if this replacement has anything useful to say.

Yoshiken

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Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #434 on: February 23, 2010, 11:04:13 PM »
Ugh. Net died as I went to post an update. Here it is, albeit a bit later than expected:

Quote
...And I failed to notice that nothing changed since Alchemy Man's post. Still, time remaining, at least!

Day Four Votes:
Kirk (3): Flay, Gordon, Smax
Comedian (4): Tick, Kirk, Axel, Hilda
Almaz(1): Hazel
And just under 25 hours remaining. With 11 alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch.

Maya Kumashiro

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Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #435 on: February 23, 2010, 11:31:07 PM »
Hazel:  I think Batmanuel meant Hilda and Almaz.  Which I admit, my responce there was fiercer than I would now have made it.  It just seems to me she is trying to pick a fight with me ever since I voted her: her "what more do you want from me?" struck me weird because I already pulled off her, and I just don't appreciate the commentary afterwards.

I don't follow some people's logic but I'm not saying they live in their own worlds.  Autism isn't funny.


As far as the missing NK is concerned, I don't know.  Probably an endgame revelation.

-------

Either way, Axel and Smax sit well with me.  Smax is... weird, in that he predicted Captain Planet from Day 1.  But he's been really good so I don't feel the need to pursue him.  Axel's less so, sometimes jumping into waters I really don't get, but it's okay!  Because he's really not posted anything that makes me think he's scum.

Flay is supertown in my eyes.  Tick... is not.  But given Flay's play there's no reason for me to suspect they're not masons like Comedian suggested.

Kirk is a different story.  I know how weird it looks to come up with something every time, but still.  He's been on Middleman all game long and I thought I'd read it more carefully rather than skim.  So far most of what he's said seems to be calculating based on information, lynch Batmanuel or Middleman... who've been his Day 1 cases.  Can't really fault him much there since I felt the same way with Gordon.

This is an interesting post.  Lynch for information instead of lynch the scum.  Advocating focusing on Batmanuel instead of giving Planet or Gordon attention.

... Oh, it's also his last post of the day.

Quote
Almaz also...  needs to be reread, but the protection he had is now gone, since it was based on him repeatedly voting for Middleman when it would be decisive.

... ... Wait, I had protection based on repeatedly voting Middleman?  ... Really?

Quote
Almaz's Day 1 choice for Middleman and the loss of cred that came with it, and his subsequent attempt to argue in favor of a Middleman lynch today doesn't make sense if they are both scum.  Currently inclined to say this favors Almaz, but my read on him is incomplete, and I know part of that is my bias due to believing Middleman to be scum.

Oh, now I see.  He got that wrong.  I was against Middleman's lynch come Day Three and hadn't talked much about him before that.  I... don't see where he got that.  Was saying Middleman's not scum and voted Batmanuel instead.

On the one hand I have Batmanuel who keeps agreeing with me or at least think I am sensible, which is scary as the others who did are dead or are Flay.  He also has the honour of having one case per Day, excepting Day 1 with a short stint with Kirk over the jokevote, while not having ever provided much reason for us to vote the way he did.

I mmmmmean, at least I tried, right?  You don't see my way, but at least I tried- Batmanuel's done nothing of the sort!

Not sure who I feel worse over.  Lemme get this out and... well, for now, let's go with...

##VOTE: Kirk

At least until he explains the entire mess around me and why he kept going about focusing on Batmanuel instead of Captain Planet and why it was important to lynch for information instead of aim for scum.

Alice Margatroid

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Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #436 on: February 23, 2010, 11:36:49 PM »
A replacement huh, that's interesting.

Yoshiken

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Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #437 on: February 23, 2010, 11:40:49 PM »
And I'm going to preempt the replacement-based arguments (whichever way round they go) by saying that anyone who wants a replacement can and will be replaced almost as soon as possible, regardless of alignment. I play Mafia on a few sites, and can easily find someone to fill in. The fact that he's been replaced says nothing other than that the original player does not want to play any more.

Maya Kumashiro

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Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #438 on: February 23, 2010, 11:48:44 PM »
I'm not even sure what to say about the replacement.  Can't hold him against his predecessor in good conscience... who does look pretty bad.  Only came out to attack, hammer out of nowhere.  Never really elaborates a lot on why he votes either.  I forget he played, his presence is really nihil.

Narrator!  You realise what charge you dropped on us, right?  

Maya Kumashiro

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Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #439 on: February 23, 2010, 11:49:07 PM »
... and so Almaz learns to actually read the new replies before posting.

Helga Pataki

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Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #440 on: February 24, 2010, 12:09:42 AM »
Hmm. First off, just gonna say that I'm willing to give New!Comedian a clean slate, as it sucks to come into a game partway through and be doomed by virtue of having a bad predecessor.

Also: Skimmed through things (need more sleep, so badly) and I'm still noting an increase in the aggressive behavior of Hazel. Not gonna lie. It's really throwing me off to come back, day after day, to find Hazel attacking more rabidly. (What are you, a wolverine?) Some things about your posting of late has seemed a little off, though, which I'll get to in a second, and now has you on my list of people to begin examining studiously. (AKA: You're on the Lynch List, now. Bottom of the stack, but still there)

Hazel: - First off, really not liking you attacking someone for not deleting something from their post. Some people write in stream-of-consciousness. I know I do. Do you have a problem with that?

- Using the "you shouldn't post in stream-of-consciousness" argument to lead into a push on Almaz. Am I going to, once again, have to point out that even Hiro (confirmed Townie since, heck, pretty much right away) was having doubts about Planet?

- Of course you wouldn't think you were wrong for scummy reasons

- Your case on Almaz looks... an awful lot like what you were complaining about with the Bats cases on Day 3. It's a lot of stretching, and an awful lot a' spin~ And, hell. Normally I'd be fine with this, and overlook it as unimportant, but when it's done in the midst of hypocrisy...

- So Tick and I moved up on your list because you can't trust Tick more than Smax and Axel. Fair enough. I don't get why that reduces your trust in me, though. Just sayin'.



Would prefer nobody else vote Kirk or Comedian just yet, as L-1 isn't cool and there's more talking to be done today. Would also like for Hilda, Hazel, and Almaz to take a few moments and talk about other people some. Will be back for more analysis, but mrg, sleep~

Helga Pataki

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Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #441 on: February 24, 2010, 12:12:40 AM »
Oh, yeah. Suspicions list.

Lynch List:
Kirk > Comedian >= Hazel >= Gordon

Null tells:
Pretty Much Everyone

Town:
Tick, Hiro, Saber




And a quick note, as I just remembered it now: I am as confused as you are, Almaz, as to why we're both still alive. But, that's WIFOM, so, yeah.

Over 9000

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Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #442 on: February 24, 2010, 12:32:33 AM »
Alright, skimmed through most of the thread, mostly focused more on the last five or so pages with a light skimming on the rest for sanity's sake.  I can see my predecessor left me in a bit of a bind.  Considering the timing of the day, it's pretty much impossible for me to come up with any unique cases myself, so I guess I'll just give my feelings for now.

From what I've managed to take in, the only three people that would strike me as being scum that aren't my predecessor would be Kirk, Almaz, and Gordon, everyone else generally leaves me with townie vibes.  I know my previous selfs behavior is pretty bad, but I can't really comment on it since I do not know what he was thinking.  Of the three I mentioned I honestly have no clue what I truly think between Almaz and Gordon, and figuring that out would require an extensive read of the two which just makes me go ugh.  Kirk however is much more quantifiable for me mostly due to the case on his vote records.  Right now I'll just point out that my suspicions lie mostly on Kirk, however, I'm not going to place my vote on him since the day is only barely half over and I think that would put him at L-1?

Regarding the masons, while I find The Ticks content to be a bit objectionable, he has been on scum rather consistently it seems, though I wish his posts would contain more reasoning, Flay however reads fine to me, and I personally believe their claim is true.  It was mentioned earlier, but if it truly is a scum gambit then it will become really obvious if roles start flipping, but right now, the only thing we know for certain of roles is that the scum had a silencer and rolecop, the only thing we know of town roles is the mason claim and the possibility of a doc since there was no nightkill this past night.  I don't think I would even begin to second guess the masons unless we see a town role other then the potential doc flip.

Everyone else has generally been a townie/neutralish read to me in my skim over.

Going to go to bed for now, will be around for the rest of the day once I wake up though, and I'll hopefully be able to do a more thorough readover.

Alice Margatroid

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Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #443 on: February 24, 2010, 12:40:56 AM »
##Unvote Comedian after seeing new player's investment into the game. A good start, but I'll be expecting more.

Intention to vote Kirk later on in the day (now that the Comedian isn't a Jester).

Kirk really hasn't done anything lately, other than be content to ride the Comedian train. Not happy with that.

Nathan Greaves

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Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #444 on: February 24, 2010, 12:53:06 AM »
Also: Skimmed through things (need more sleep, so badly) and I'm still noting an increase in the aggressive behavior of Hazel. Not gonna lie. It's really throwing me off to come back, day after day, to find Hazel attacking more rabidly.

My explanation for this is that I was barely around for Day 1 on the whole and disappeared when things got heated up, and I've wanted to make up for that lackluster performance ever since.

I make no apologies for conviction.

Hazel: - First off, really not liking you attacking someone for not deleting something from their post. Some people write in stream-of-consciousness. I know I do. Do you have a problem with that?

Not as a general idea, no. I've even done it myself in this game. What I do have a problem with is coming to something so jarring relative to earlier post content and not modifying things as necessary.

- Using the "you shouldn't post in stream-of-consciousness" argument to lead into a push on Almaz. Am I going to, once again, have to point out that even Hiro (confirmed Townie since, heck, pretty much right away) was having doubts about Planet?

Hiro's thought process != Almaz's thought process. Hiro did not propose an incredibly scummy course of action, Almaz did.

- Of course you wouldn't think you were wrong for scummy reasons

I said that in response to Hilda not liking my vote record, as it's not just the vote record that matters but the justification for the votes as well. I also brought it up to see who, if anyone, would disagree. Do you think I've been wrong for scummy reasons? If so, how?

- Your case on Almaz looks... an awful lot like what you were complaining about with the Bats cases on Day 3. It's a lot of stretching, and an awful lot a' spin~ And, hell. Normally I'd be fine with this, and overlook it as unimportant, but when it's done in the midst of hypocrisy...

I've realized that I can't really hold not actually being on the Planet train against Almaz and have dropped that point accordingly. The rest of it...

- Day 1 Prinny Deal

This is more a study in Prinny's words than Almaz's anyway, but. Hilda has already gone over why the Prinny post was obvious flailing. No one has raised any objection to this interpretation. Well, except for Almaz. Where is the stretching or the spinning?

- Day 2 Planet Plan

FACT: Almaz posited that scum would kill Town Captain Planet if we left him alive, and that town could lynch Captain Planet the next day if he survived.
(ADDITIONAL FACT: A cop claim surviving through the night does not mean they are scum.)
FACT: Almaz suggested moving to Gordon instead in light of this.
FACT: Captain Planet has flipped scum.
FACT: Gordon has not flipped anything.

The combination of these facts is what makes me believe Almaz scum, and there's really no room for interpretation on any of them. Where is the stretching or the spinning?

- Day 3 Batmanuel Shenanigans

This one I will admit is less concrete than the other two. It is certainly possible that Almaz's mistake was genuine, and in a vacuum I might agree, but in light of the other two strikes against him and how easily it could really be scum just reaching for something to cling to, I'm not inclined to believe so.

- So Tick and I moved up on your list because you can't trust Tick more than Smax and Axel. Fair enough. I don't get why that reduces your trust in me, though. Just sayin'.

You and Tick are inseparable, as you've both claimed that you're confirmed to each other. I have no particular objection to you, but if Tick is scum, you are as well. Assuming the mason claim is true, you really should start trying to wrangle him in.

Of course, you two are so far down the line that it likely won't make a difference. As things stand right now, the only way I'd vote for you guys is if Hazel/Tick/Flay-rah/Smax/Axel was declared LYLO.

Princess Leia

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Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #445 on: February 24, 2010, 01:12:29 AM »
New Comedian, huh? Alright, I'll give you some time to sink or swim on your own merits instead of old Comedians.

##Unvote:Comedian

Not really sure where this leaves me, though. Kirk I didn't really dislike before today, but the combination of his lack of defense, just throwing out the Comedian vote and then dissapearing. It's been said, he's acting fishy, but he's already at -2 so I don't want to put a vote on him here.

Flay/Smax/Hilda/Hazel I'm down with. Not seeing any reason to seriously suspect scum here. Tick as well, purely because of Flay and yeah, I buy the mason claim.

Leaves Comedian/Almaz/Gordon/Batmanuel. Comedian, well, see above. Late game replacements are hard to judge. Batmanuel I have a hard time seeing as scum with TownMiddleman. I've already talked about this, so not going to drag it all back out here.

So Almaz and Gordon. Almaz I've talked about before. I don't like him, but I think it's more that I don't like the way he says things then what he's saying. I'm hesitant to actually build a case on that, since it's more about playstyles then anything else. Which, with a few exceptions like refusing to get votes down, I try not to pursue people for.

Gordon I've been lumping in with Kirk for awhile now. Both generally don't bother me, but then sometimes say stuff that makes me go ???. This is probably a sign that I need to look at his posts more carefully.

So this leaves me with Kirk/Almaz/Gordon/Comedian as my primary suspects for scum. Going to read back over the first three more closely, especially Kirk and Gordon, and wait for the last one to exist more, I guess. Keeping my vote to myself for now, since if I were going to put it on someone it would be Kirk, but again, don't want to bring him to L-1 this early.

Ninja'd by Hazel yet again. Nothing there I need to talk about, okay.

Maya Kumashiro

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Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #446 on: February 24, 2010, 01:27:34 AM »
Other people, Flay?  The rest either read neutral or I covered them in previous Days.  And by them I mean Gordon.


- Day 1 Prinny Deal

This is more a study in Prinny's words than Almaz's anyway, but. Hilda has already gone over why the Prinny post was obvious flailing. No one has raised any objection to this interpretation. Well, except for Almaz. Where is the stretching or the spinning?

Wait, where did I "object" to that interpretation?  I didn't bother talking about it at all, I just silently thought it was bad town play.  But!  I said the same thing over and again.

So!  Food for thought!  A new direction.

Prinny's Flail Post Here

Posts after that, in order: Saber, Smax, Flay, Bat, Almaz, Gordon, Smax, Flay, Mod.

VOTECOUNT:
On Prinny: Flay, Tick, Axel, Hilda, Hiro, Smax
Not On Prinny: Kirk, Gordon, Hazel, Comedian, Saber, Almaz, Batmanuel, Planet, Prinny.

The last three bear noting to be on Flay.

Of the last ones, we can scrap Kirk, Hazel and Comedian for not being there. Let's take their word for it.

We can scrap Planet and Prinny for being scum.

Batmanuel is on Flay.  Beside him, Gordon, Saber and I all posted after Prinny's flailing and did not allocate our votes to the Prinny.  Saber said something akin to following gut, Gordon said Middleman's continued absence earns his vote 'for now'.  Additional note: I said it earlier and I'll say it again, I voted Middleman for inaction and indecision.  Gordon echoes at least the vote for inaction.  

Batmanuel expresses sentiment to vote for the Prinny "through no fault of the Prinny's".  He later, when I pressed him with a vote, said he thought both Prinny and Middleman were Town.  Remember this paragraph because it is important.

Saber is dead.  No longer here.  Within our hearts, she lives on, but that's a different matter.  What I want to bring to the attention right now is the following:

After the flailing, Gordon was equally unwilling to move off of Middleman, moving only after Middleman's suicide ploy.

As Hiro noted, Middleman's suicide maneuvre confused the hell out of people, and I chose to stick by that.  Gordon decided to lay his trap and conveniently switched, and this is important so read the post:

Quote
Middleman's suicide ploy is painful, but I see no reason to impede the Prinny lynch given his play today! Consider me ready to swap if a last minute wagon-switch occurs!

Now read that last line.  Notice the "if"?  So if the Prinny hadn't been at deadline, he would've stayed on Middleman.

Yes, I said I excused the Prinny's defence in favour of Middleman's lack of defence and complete abstinence from participating in the Day, contributing and voting.  I found it more offencive that someone'd completely disappear Day 1 after his sketchy behaviour at the start.

Is that really enough to hound me time and again?  And give Gordon a free pass for ignoring that same flailing post and sticking to Middleman?  It demonstrates that I was not the only one to ultimately stick to Middleman despite Prinny's flailing.  It is only after Middleman's play that Gordon switches without much explanation.  

Batmanuel does not explicitly say he excuses the Prinny's defence, but he favours both of them as Town and finds Middleman the more Town person.  In other words, I was definitely not alone in excusing Prinny's flailing.

That you keep repeating the point ad nauseum and try to force it down like the most damning piece of evidence since Day 1 is beginning to look very much like a forced and strained scum argument, Hazel.

Quote
- Day 2 Planet Plan

FACT: Almaz posited that scum would kill Town Captain Planet if we left him alive, and that town could lynch Captain Planet the next day if he survived.
(ADDITIONAL FACT: A cop claim surviving through the night does not mean they are scum.)
FACT: Almaz suggested moving to Gordon instead in light of this.
FACT: Captain Planet has flipped scum.
FACT: Gordon has not flipped anything.

FACT: Almaz expressed disbelief of the copclaim before that.
FACT: Almaz expressed he'd vote Captain Planet before that.
FACT: Almaz even expressed doubts about Captain Planet before a train was formed.
FACT: Almaz discredited the plan himself by proposing Planet was a scum rolecop.
FACT: Almaz proposed lynching who he felt was scummiest without a dubious copclaim.

If you want to move with a FACT: list, then there you have it.  You only pick what is convenient to accuse me with and leave out all the rest.  

You think I was reaching with Batmanuel?  I think you're reaching way, way fiercer and latching on more stubborn than I did with Gordon.

Tohsaka Rin

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Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #447 on: February 24, 2010, 04:02:00 AM »
Hazel's pursuit of Almaz here is starting to remind of me of Almaz attacking Gordon, honestly. Agree with Flay that the shift in attitude is a little jarring.

How do we feel about the Comedian right now? Is there agreement to hold off on lynching until the new player gets a handle on things? I'm loathe to give someone a free pass because of a player change, obviously, but I think at the least we can hold off until tomorrow.

Helga Pataki

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Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #448 on: February 24, 2010, 05:50:28 AM »
Token Flayvor: Ahh, what a refreshing nap that was! And here I am, back, ready to defend JUSTICE, like a TRUE HERO!

Gordon, Kirk, Batmanuel! Come out of the shadows and share what you have to say! Be daring, be courageous, be a HERO!

As for the rest of you, friends, well... aw, heck. I can't stay mad at you, Comedian! And you, Hazel!... well, Almaz covered that pretty well, actually. Though I thought I gave you two a time-out away from each other? And you deserve a time-out outside of the classroom anyways, Hazel. Next time, it's detention! Unless you want to end up like some of those other punks in my class...

Good work, Almaz! But you still need to go back to your corner.

I do believe there is an agreement to hold off, Smax! However, not an agreement to end the day. Not yet. For ending it early would not be following the PATH OF JUSTICE!

Substance: Mm, good nap. Alright, back to business.

Would like to see some fresh stuff out of Gordon Kirk and Bats, especially given the new Comedian. (Whom I'd like a few more posts out of today, if at all possible, but am liking much better so far and am willing to give the benefit of the doubt until tomorrow, at least.)

As for the rest of you, well... Comedian is out of of the Lynch List for now. And Hazel, in response... well, yeah. Almaz actually covered it pretty well. Pretty damn aggressively, but it seems like it was needed.
You only pick what is convenient to accuse me with and leave out all the rest. 

You think I was reaching with Batmanuel?  I think you're reaching way, way fiercer and latching on more stubborn than I did with Gordon.
Just gonna quote that for a little emphasis.
Other issues (not covered by Almaz) are:
- Yes, fair enough. I made no deal of you being more aggressive Day 2 than you were Day 1. It's the continual increase in aggression that's, as Smax put it, "jarring." Please take a moment to chill, though. I didn't appreciate the venom.

- See, I've still done that myself in the middle of a post. I don't like deleting what I've typed, though, because I like knowing where I was at the beginning, because then I find it easier to trace how I came to my conclusions. (Also, if you'd note, I started my first post there by saying you were the bottom of my stack, and then in my suspicions list you weren't. That was because I'd convinced myself that you weren't any less suspicious than Gordon by the end of that post. I didn't delete it, though, so you can even check for yourself)

- I do agree that he had a ridiculously bad post near the end of Day 2. I guess I'm just not seeing why it's such a huge deal. Especially since you still seem to be clinging to the "he was nervous!" argument.

Gonna make a sidenote: I could see a Hazel/Bats scumteam. I'm really not seeing it as likely, but hey. I could see it after her unrestrained defense of him yesterday, and flipping to Almaz-style tunneling and the kind of spinning she was complaining about. *ahem* Back to business.

- Yes, I do believe you were wrong for scummy reasons. Well, maybe not quite scummy but certainly suspicious. Gonna point to this post, but more specifically the (almost) end of it. You go off on MM because he's grabbing things from Day 1. (Again, please no venom, because I know you're going to contest this, and I'd rather not have to wade through veiled insults) Will look for more later, but this post is turning out far larger than anticipated, and I have less time than anticipated.

- Uhm... what? "I've realized that I can't really hold not actually being on the Planet train against Almaz and have dropped that point accordingly. The rest of it..." Almaz was on the Planet train. Early on, too.

- The spinning is in taking a "he had a bad plan" to "he had a scummy plan." Bad =/= scummy, as we saw with MM. He wasn't doing so hot Day 1, but he was still Town. We know this.

- The Day 3 stuff is mostly what I was referring to. And you even admitted to it. Thank you. (And fair enough on the Me/Tick bit)

Alright, gonna respond to the rest in my next post. This one is way too long already. >_>

Helga Pataki

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Re: VALIANT HERO Mafia! [Day Four]
« Reply #449 on: February 24, 2010, 05:58:11 AM »
Almaz: Solid case, though still pretty aggressive. And, really, you got to a lot of stuff I was already gonna say with it. (Namely the stuff about Gordon and your Day 2 Planet stuff. Though I didn't notice all that "if" stuff) Find myself nodding to a lot of it, but I am gonna re-read it later and try to be more critical if I can. (Hey, just because I don't see you as scummy doesn't mean I shouldn't try to pick apart what you say)

Smax: Yeah, I'm pretty certain most people are willing to let Comedian off the hook. For today. I don't think anyone's gonna be taking their off of him, though, don't worry.