<Untitled IAQ Project>: Round 5: Plot Revisit (Let's start putting it together.)

[AndrewRogue]

Its worth keeping in mind (regarding the presence of the "deposing imperial forces" that:

1. This is simply a chunk of the military council taking advantage of the fact that the military leader is in such a state that he can't really lead effectively.
2. That they take major a major hit during the city attack.
3. That they take a third major hit at the FP Island.

The fact is, the "evil/antagonistic" chunk of the empire isn't overly large, its just that they are near the top and nearly unopposed in military command due to the way they are holding the reins. This isn't a huge movement within the military, its simply a core group of people manipulating the media and what not. When they reveal themselves and go for the gold (during/post-attack), they eat it hard to the Guardian leader. Without their base of power, they really don't have much going for them. Integrating with one of the two groups is their best shot at survival, since, again, they never had a strong an independent power base to begin with.

Now, a problem with the Guardian's sweeping in is prolly accurate and terming the Imperial remenants as rebels is a bit misleading. The second arc of the game would be more accurately termed a civil war. The Guardians have been plotting this for a while.

[074]

The fact is, the "evil/antagonistic" chunk of the empire isn't overly large, its just that they are near the top and nearly unopposed in military command due to the way they are holding the reins.

Thing is, this means that, as one would expect of high-ranking officers, they'd have a large number of bodies under their command, due to the hierarchical structure that would exist (All the way down to the grunts, and something tells me that after the initial Guardian conflict, they'd have been revising their forces for the eventuality of another opponent with anti-dissonance capabilities.  Combined-arms tactics, so to speak.).  As for revealing themselves and 'going for the gold'...Gier I could see there (If he doesn't eat it either to the PCs or Zorn.  Seeing a 1/3 chance for the eventuality of any of those three happening).  Not sure if Zorn would do something that stupid, however, and Sigkeit's at least capable of listening to reason.  If they have a superior between them and the military leader...hard to say if he's that stupid either.

Anyway, enough of that point.

Encounter/Boss possibilities by chapter, starting with Mirek 2
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mirek 2:
Encounter: Wilderness section(s)?

Isolde 4:
Encounter: Wilderness section
Boss: Assassins.  Possibly give them some names.  Alternatively, keep them alive for a case of Chekhov's Gun later on( muuuuuch later )
Possible encounter: Thug(s) who don't like the poking for info.

Noemi 5:
Encounter: Wilderness section, Disquieted Area.
Boss: Disquieted Abomination
Boss: Possible thing to do with Erastus' past.

Mirek 3:
Boss: Guardian Commander Orianna

Isolde 5:
Encounter series: Disquieted beasts, Guardian party
Boss: Guardian Commander Val

Noemi 6:
Encounter series: Disquieted beasts.
Boss: Disquieted Abomination?
Boss: Guardian Commander Seraphin

Mirek 4:
Boss: Yiu 2

Isolde 6:
Random encounter area: Wilderness section
Encounters: Varied assassins/hired help.
Boss: Selena, with imperial support squad.

Noemi 7:
Encounter areas: Wilderness, old Guardian base

Mirek 5:
Encounter strings: Guardians

Noemi 8:
Boss: Yiu 3

Isolde 7:
Encounter area: Wilderness.

Mirek 6:
Encounters/Encounter area: Guardians, Disquieted beasts
Boss: Guardian commander? (One-shot)

Noemi 9:
Encounter area: wilderness
Pathsplit decided at the end of the chapter, presumably.  If scores for both sides are similar, player actively chooses which side.

{Guardian Path}
Attack:
Encounters: Imperial Military, Guardians
Boss?: Military commander Reinhild

Noemi 10:
Encounter area: Disquieted area, Wilderness areas
Boss: Yiu 4
Encounter area: God-Kings' Island(Soulless, Imperial Soldiers, Guardians)
Boss: Military commander Gier
Encounters: Imperial Soldiers
Boss?: Military leader

Isolde 8:
Encounter area: Guardians, Soulless
Boss?: Military commander Sigkeit
Boss: Selena 2[with Flow Amplifier]

Mirek 8:
Encounter area: Imperial soldiers, Soulless

<<TIMESKIP GOES HERE>>

Noemi 11:
No encounters.  Can possibly explore GK Island area.

Yiu 1:
Encounter(s?): Guardians

Isolde 9:
Encounters: Guardians
Boss?: Guardian commander (One-shot)

Mirek 9:
Encounter/Encounter Area: Soulless

Yiu 2:
Possibly no new areas.

Noemi 12:
Possibly no new areas.

Isolde 10:
No new encounters or areas.  Optional stuff is probably available around now to relevant PCs.

Mirek 10:
Encounters: Soulless

The Hunt:
Encounter area: Soulless

Noemi 13:
No new areas.  

The War:
Possible strategy-battle minigame.  Alternatively, encounters: Guardians
Boss:Guardian commander Val.

The Strike:
Boss: Guardian Commander Orianna
Encounter area: Guardians' HQ
Boss: Guardian Commander Seraphin
Boss: Guardian Leader

{end Guardian Path.  go to The Call}

{Imperial Path}

Attack:
Encounters: Imperial Military, Guardians
Boss?: Guardian Commander Val

Noemi 10:
Encounter area: Disquieted area, Wilderness areas
Boss: Yiu 4
Encounter area: God-Kings' Island(Soulless, Imperial Soldiers, Guardians)
Encounters: Guardians
Boss: Guardian Commander Seraphin
Boss: Guardian Leader

Isolde 8:
Encounter area: Guardians, Soulless
Boss: Selena 2[with Flow Amplifier]

Mirek 8:
Encounter area: Imperial soldiers, Soulless
Boss: Guardian Commander Cecilie

<<TIMESKIP GOES HERE>>

Noemi 11:
No encounters.  Can possibly explore GK Island area.

Yiu 1:
Encounter(s?): Imperials, Imperial Supersoldiers

Isolde 9:
Encounters: Imperials, Imperial Supersoldiers
Boss?: Imperial Commander (one-shot)

Mirek 9:
Encounter/Encounter Area: Soulless

Yiu 2:
Possibly no new areas.

Noemi 12:
Possibly no new areas.

Isolde 10:
No new encounters or areas.  Optional stuff is probably available around now to relevant PCs.

Mirek 10:
Encounters: Soulless

The Hunt:
Encounter area: Soulless

Noemi 13:
No new areas.  

The War:
Possible strategy-battle minigame.  Alternatively, encounters: Imperials, Imperial Supersoldiers
Boss:Imperial Commander Sigkeit

The Strike:
Boss: Imperial Commander Gier
Encounter area: Imperial HQ
Boss: Imperial Commander Reinhild
Encounter area: more Imperial HQ
Boss: Military Leader

{End Imperial Path.}

The Call:
No new areas.  This is when the last sidequest stuff should probably be done.

The Desert of Red Glass:
Encounter area: self-explanatory.  Disquieted abominations on par with the Soulless, possibly nastier.

Phantasm Fortress:
Encounter area: Phantasm Fortress (Initial area)

[[Parties split here.  Each of the mains must form a party with the members available]]
[Noemi Section]
Encounter Section: Phantasm Fortress(Central Branch) (Randoms' intensity is under given conditions)
Boss:?? (Skipped under given conditions)
Boss:?? (Support dependent on conditions)

[Mirek Section]
Encounter Section: Phantasm Fortress(West Branch) (Randoms' intensity is under given conditions)
Boss:?? (Skipped under given conditions)
Boss:?? (Support dependent on conditions)

[Isolde Section]
Encounter Section: Phantasm Fortress(East Branch) (Randoms' intensity is under given conditions)
Boss:?? (Skipped under given conditions[Selena recruited])
Boss:?? (Support dependent on conditions)

[Merge]
Encounter area: Phantasm Fortress, Final corridor
Boss: Erastus' ultimate summon.  Whatever it is.  On steroids.
Final Boss: Erastus

The End:
Encounter: LONG CUTSCENE.  CANNOT BE ATTACKED.  YOU MUST WATCH IT.

[Dark Holy Elf]

LONG CUTSCENE.  CANNOT BE ATTACKED.  YOU MUST WATCH IT.

*attacks with sceneskip button, OHKOs*

[074]

*Cannot be sceneskipped.  It is inextricably tied to the credits*

[AndrewRogue]

Some discussion from last night, summed up for your reading pleasure.

The Concern: Can we make which side wins (Rogue Guardians vs Usurping Imperials) vary and, if we do, why would the Usurping Imperials be as bad as the rest?
A Potential Answer: Sure, why not? As far as why it'd be just as bad, the reasoning we eventually settled on was that, given the Usurping Imperials are utterly focused on controlling the continent (and feel that the current system works well enough) that the guy who gets the UIM instead figures out a way to recreate the soulless for the sake of awesome uber soldiers. Of course, creating these fellows isn't exactly Kosher, nor is what they plan on doing with them good.

The Concern: So about that Noemi depression/timeskip thing...
A Potential Answer: Okay, okay. I got it, I got it. How about we place the time period of the timeskip as between 6-12 months (somewhere in there) and emphasize the depression as a sort of cyclical thing. Noemi attempts to progress, but every time she starts making progress, things come back and she just can't finish, allowing the illusion of progress and not making her an invalid (note, this was never my intention anyhow, just for the sake of saying it!). What pushes her back into being able to do things is the support of the PCs left with her and finally the news that Isolde made it out alive.

The Concern: So, that's well and good, but why don't the PCs  just go back to the FP Island to save our heroic sacrifice/s/go look for them/know where each other are?
A Potential Answer: Party was scattered in the escape, Yiu was a surprise savior, FP Island is STILL hard to get to, very dangerous and Noemi's issues are kinda hinging on what happened there at the moment, which allows here the might power of making excuses to not do it. In other words, there's a lot of reasons not to, and only one practical reason (the person who is the smart scholarly type who can figure this all out) to really push the vast majority of the party to go back. And of course, this isn't to say that the other PCs don't have opinions, but just that the push to go back can't really be initiated by them.

The Concern: So about the attack on the city...
A Potential Answer: Since this got a lot of talk, to sum it up, this is the culmination of a lot of Guardian planning and a gambit by the Imperials. Guardians have been slowly weakening/drawing out Imperial defenses and infiltrating. To further this, once Noemi and her companions are taken into custody, an Imperial faction (likely near the Empress) leaks some information to the Guardians to try and set up an escape for the PCs. Unfortunately, the Guardian presence is much higher then expected, which leads to the attack proper, which causes a temporary reunification of the Imperials. Either way, its a combination of a planned thing + awesome opportunity coinciding.

The Concern: Excal vs Djinn; Mirek and Isolde's Chapters being told AFTER rediscovery by Noemi vs Chapters being told in chronological order
A Potential Answer: Hell if I know. This was a REALLY long discussion that involved a lot of stuff, so if you two could add in here, I'd appreciate it.

[Excal]

Alright, the basic issue that Djinn and I were duking things out about was mostly just what to do with Mirek.  In the escape from the First Practioner's Island (FPI, for short) Mirek and some folks do the noble sacrifice thing, and then later find Erastus and nurse him back to health.  Later on, Noemi and co come along and find him.

So, what's the deal?

Simply put, right now the outline has three Mirek chapters that take place between his "sacrifice" and his rescue.  Djinn feels they work best being left as they are, whereas I feel they should be condensed into a flashback chapter that takes place after you find him.

A brief outline of Djinn's arguments state that doing them in order is better because pretending he's dead would be cheesy, or otherwise insulting to the player.  And that he's supposed to be a co-main, and therefore delaying his time is a demotion.

My points, well, the base one is, this is supposed to be the closest the party comes to defeat, this is supposed to be the point where you feel that things really did just turn to shit.  Having a party die, or at least appear to do so, is thematically appropriate at this point.  And if the player doesn't buy in, it then makes them wonder where and how they're going to turn up.  However, the fact that Yiu's party is supposed to show up about now regardless of the death dialemma means that we're not really going out of our way to create this, but just hiding one piece of information until it's time to reveal it.

Not to mention, you're adding in the thematic nature of it.  When the party is down on its knees, he appears dead.  When it's getting back up again, and getting the final tools to start the final arc and kick some ass?  Then he pops up with part of what's needed.

Now, let's take a look at how the Mirek on the island scenario will work, anyways.  To start it off, once you find out he's stranded on the island, you know he's going to live.  In fact, the question is how is he going to get off the island, and given that one of the major dramatic draws in his chapters is how are they going to get off, and that struggle, the fact that the big one for that takes place after Noemi has her team heading there will leave it dead.  There'll be no tension, no conflict, for the player to get drawn into.  Now, let's see what happens if you flip things.  Now the issue isn't how do we get off, but rather, how did we get here, and what have we found?  Not only does this have the added bonus of removing as redundant any gather the materials to make a raft minigame, but this is useful information that the player should be interested in by this point.  Especially since this is what Noemi came here to learn as well.

That's my main pitch.  Got questions, I'll be happy to BS an answer.

[DjinnAndTonic]

So, what's the deal?

Simply put, right now the outline has three Mirek chapters that take place between his "sacrifice" and his rescue.  Djinn feels they work best being left as they are,

Actually, I feel they could be condensed if necessary, and -some- shuffling of the order is okay, I just don't think it should be pushed back to after Noemi gets to the FPI, which is almost endgame.

A brief outline of Djinn's arguments state that doing them in order is better because pretending he's dead would be cheesy, or otherwise insulting to the player.  And that he's supposed to be a co-main, and therefore delaying his time is a demotion.

Good summary. To expand a little, I also feel that introducing this suspense takes away from the impact of Aurel's death and Kasia's betrayal, which had originally been the focus of the midgame climax. Excal feels that the question of Mirek's survival actually compounds with the Aurel/Kasia scenario as if everything is building up at once. I feel that it detracts from the one truly visceral moment in the midgame climax by introducing a lingering suspense about one of the main PCs that ends up just being a fake-out.

Even Noemi, in her depressed state, won't be able to say with certainty that Mirek (and co) is dead, but she -saw- Aurel die. The focus should be on him and Kasia, Noemi's actual long-time friends, but the only one that Noemi can do anything about is Mirek, so inevitably the focus would become him.

When I first read the outline, the impression I got of how the party split up at the conclusion of the FPI incident was that everyone separated during the escape and they were presumed to have made it off the island safely, even if their locations weren't readily discernable. The surprise was supposed to be that Noemi and Isolde's groups made it off, but Mirek's team -stayed-, not that Mirek's team wasn't -dead-. Honestly, Mirek and co are very capable warriors, it seems like they could be counted upon to not die.

My points, well, the base one is, this is supposed to be the closest the party comes to defeat, this is supposed to be the point where you feel that things really did just turn to shit. 

Well, this is probably the reason for our disagreement. I got the impression that this was more supposed to be the low point for -Noemi-, not necessarily the whole party. They took a hit and they need to regroup, but it doesn't seem like anyone else is in the 'giving up' mindset... so it doesn't seem like the whole tone of the game has to make the player feel like shit.

Now, let's take a look at how the Mirek on the island scenario will work, anyways.  To start it off, once you find out he's stranded on the island, you know he's going to live.  In fact, the question is how is he going to get off the island,
...
Not only does this have the added bonus of removing as redundant any gather the materials to make a raft minigame, but this is useful information that the player should be interested in by this point.  Especially since this is what Noemi came here to learn as well.

I'm also somewhat leaning against the whole scenario being only about him trying to get off the island, no matter when we end up showing it. The FPI is a great place for some exploration and world-building. It's the single most important historical site in the game... If Mirek is there with Erastus and Rafael or any of the researchers, it would be easy for the chapter to take a more exploratory approach instead of a 'Let's GTFO' feel. Depending upon what they find, leaving the island could become a very secondary goal.

Alternately, they -are- on the 'Island Chock Full o' Zombies' if we wanted to try a creeping horror idea.

Point is, there's a few different things this chapter could accomplish in addition to its main function of 'Mirek gets gameplay time and character development' apart from Suiko4 raft-material-gathering~.

I agree that the temporal placement should be based on what the chapter accomplishes for the story, but if the main goal in delaying it is to create a fake sense of suspense after we killed off someone For Real and we're heading towards the Big Twist, it's worse than filler, it's insulting to the player.

[Excal]

Hmm, that's one of the things that's confused me about your arguments, Djinn.  The whole he's gone almost until endgame.  Noemi has precisely two sequences between leaving the island and coming back to it.  One is the recap phase where we explain what she's been up to.  And the other is where she gets her act in gear and heads back to the island.

The other main point that I want to cover is that yes, Noemi is the only one who really gets down in the dumps.  But let's be clear, Noemi is the main character.  Yes, we have multiple views, but almost from the beginning, Isolde and Mirek have been a half step behind her in importance.  So, trying to have the mood of the story follow Noemi's moods works.

[DjinnAndTonic]

General World-building notes:

Technology: The technology level of the world is middling, early-1900s for the most part. Movable print, basic microscopes, rudimentary refrigeration techniques, some long-distance communication, with Dissonance magic filling in for the higher technologies. Specifically, Automobiles and Firearms are not invented (or at least not widespread), possibly just from a lack of the raw materials needed to make them (after all, this world has at least a slightly different composition of matter than our own, as seen by how the Flow itself works).

DISQUIETED HUMANS: [Saturday 10 April 2010] [23:56:50] <Elecman>   Do we have many plans for disquieted people?
[Saturday 10 April 2010] [23:57:24] <Djinn>   Yes... there's a bit on Disquieted people... mostly they die.
[Saturday 10 April 2010] [23:57:43] <Djinn>   Aside from the Soulless, they pretty much die.
[Saturday 10 April 2010] [23:58:20] <Elecman>   I guess as a setting issue I'd be a bit concerned with disquieted bears/wolves/dolphins/whatever being common but disquieted humans being super-rare.
[Saturday 10 April 2010] [23:58:28] <Elecman>   Although I guess humans know to avoid disquieted areas.
[Saturday 10 April 2010] [23:58:31] <Elecman>   So maybe not that big an issue.

[Saturday 10 April 2010] [23:59:00] <AndrewRogue>   Disquited humans die for various plotty reasons
[Saturday 10 April 2010] [23:59:10] <AndrewRogue>   Really, the main way it happens is dissonant healing
[Saturday 10 April 2010] [23:59:35] <Elecman>   Whereas disquieted animals get that way from hanging out in disquieted areas too much.
[Saturday 10 April 2010] [23:59:46] <AndrewRogue>   Nah, they die perfectly well on their own. Their bodies just start malfunctioning
[Saturday 10 April 2010] [23:59:58] <AndrewRogue>   Likely it has something to do with the human spirit/soul/chi or what not
[Sunday 11 April 2010] [00:00:11] <AndrewRogue>   Animals have a weaker one that can be subsumed by Disquiet
[Sunday 11 April 2010] [00:00:22] <AndrewRogue>   Humans don't, so it becomes this ugly immune reaction type thing
[Sunday 11 April 2010] [00:00:31] <AndrewRogue>   So, animals and plants end up mutating.
[Sunday 11 April 2010] [00:00:39] <AndrewRogue>   Humans go mad and die
[Sunday 11 April 2010] [00:00:44] <Djinn>   Soulless only came into existence due to the FP's big magical nonsense
[Sunday 11 April 2010] [00:00:58] <AndrewRogue>   (Also, it justfies the name)
[Sunday 11 April 2010] [00:01:53] <Djinn>   It's another reason that the Mages have had a hard time figuring out Dissonance poisoning - they can't test on animals, because it's innately different.
[Sunday 11 April 2010] [00:01:54] <Excal>   Suppose it helps explain why there aren't a whole bunch of random Flow wielding critters.
[Sunday 11 April 2010] [00:02:23] <Excal>   (Not that I doubt there aren't a few.  Just that they are big, scary, and special)
[Sunday 11 April 2010] [00:03:25] <AndrewRogue>   Flow wielding creatures would basically be on the mythic level, or have special systems and do it in a more... sciency way




Pre-prologue: Adding in a glimpse of what Erastus the great hero did during the Guardian Rebellion 3 years before the start of the game. [We can tell it in a fun, expository newspaper style. Its purpose is just that "Hey, there was a war and shit happened" sequence. Stage setting without too much exposition.]

-Erastus was a gentleman and a scholar who was simply content to do his duty. He stayed out of the military hierarchy as much as possible.
-Erastus was pretty much one of the top tier back in the day, one of the Great Practitioners, the Master of Fire and Flame, etc. And back then, he was pretty capable of soloing entire groups of Guardians, and was said to rival the great generals in pure ability.
-Then, during one of the larger, overt conflicts , he received the news that pretty much said "Hey, sorry about not mentioning this earlier but, just a heads up, your son and wife died a bit ago and your daughter went mad with Disquiet. Sorry 'bout that." At which point, he got a little irked. And fried both sides of the conflict in a fit of temper (with a created behemoth of flame to consume both his enemies and his allies).
-This display of power was enough to get the Guardians to back down for the most part (a few remaining skirmishes were all that were left in the conflict), which put the military in an odd position. Erastus was damn famous and he did pretty much end the revolution.
-Not quite believing the "My men were already on fire when I found them, honest" thing the military simply handed him a medal and said "Now go retire. And don't do funny things. Or else."
-So, the people had a hero. The military had a win.
--And Erastus had a ridiculous chip on his shoulder. (Start of not-opening, but noted here for consistency)
--Erastus then went off and moped and plotted and rotted until he got a letter, which said, "Hey Erastus, its me, Noemi. I'm really sorry about what happened. Etc, etc, I want to cure Disquiet could you help me out, maybe?"
--And having the knowledge he did (which is to say he'd gotten about 25% further than Noemi without ever reveling it), decided "Hey, I've got an idea." And pinned some hopes on the idea that this course could lead them to some item of great power. Something that would let him show them all what this world really was... and let him spite the lot of them.

Noemi Prologue:
-Fahim and Shao are introduced. Fahim is introduced primarily as the Skill-Learning Tutorial guy, when he teaches Noemi his skill after the first practice battle with Erastus (their cutscene plays, showing a short series of flashbacks to Fahim and Noemi working together on a project and Fahim showing her how to do his Resonance buffing skill). During that tutorial battle, only Noemi, Kasia, and Fahim participate. Shao is simply introduced as an NPC guy who happens to be a GK royal. Like, royalty in the sense of the cousin of a cousin of a cousin of the tribal leader, so it won't be immediately known that he's a PC.

Isolde & Mirek Prologue Options: It was decided to make them non-optional sequences. However, just like all cutscenes in this game, there is scene skip, so barrelling through it shouldn't be a problem.

Mirek centric chapters discussion: It has been noted that Mirek's role in the story is decidedly less prominent than Noemi, Isolde, and possibly even Yiu. The content of his chapters were significantly lower on gameplay and general connectedness to the main plot. This is a product of his intended role. While Isolde was supposed to be a big-picture active force in the politics of the plot; Mirek was designed as the human interest story, with a somewhat passive role in the story. As such, his chapters tend to be unfocused and harder to relate to the direct gameplay.

After a long discussion of what to do about this (from cutting him out entirely as a main viewpoint; to making his personality more active and investigative; to making him the target of someone out to get revenge on Erastus' only living relative), it was eventually decided that he could maintain his passive role, but that more plot-important things simply needed to happen /to/ him.

This has taken the form of introducing the rebel Guardian plot much sooner, including a 'hook' for it in Mirek's Prologue, so that his human interest story can tie in directly to the plot events. Specifically:

-Mirek is approached by one of his old Guardian buddies, JOSEF, who has been keeping in touch with Mirek since the events of the Rebellion. JOSEF, who has always jokingly prodded the somewhat antisocial Mirek into coming and joining the remaining Loyalist Guardians' support network, is taken by surprise when Mirek agrees to go and visit the old barracks after the falling out with ARTUR over EIRWEN earlier in the Prologue.

This further leads into some complications when it turns out that most of the Loyalist Guardians (Guardians who weren't exiled as traitors after the Rebellion, but were still treated poorly by the Empire, like Mirek, Ilona, and Josef) at the barracks are intending to default to the new regrouped organization of Rebel Guardians. This particular area's Rebel Guardian leader is ORIENNA Ruilang(sp?), Mirek's former girlfriend from before the Rebellion who ended up being the one who actually landed the killing blow on Mirek's cousin, MYNASAR (sp?). She still harbors some feelings for Mirek, but also a lot of scorn for the man who rejected her ideals and abandoned her. Mirek's not too thrilled with the woman who killed his cousin and participated in the attack that ruined his life. All of this has potential for very visceral emotional scenes, which ties in nicely with Mirek's human interest viewpoint while remaining very clearly connected to the main plot. It should be noted that the Leader of the Rebel Guardians, TIERCEK, is the man who trained ORIENNA (and possibly Mirek?).

Another important note is that the new Military force which took over the ousted Guardians' jobs is the PLANTATION GUARD (name subject to change), made up primarily of normal (and some Dissonant-using) soldiers from the Imperial Military. CLAIRE joined this group as soon as she was old enough, but her real desire was to become a "True" Guardian, something she and her twin sister always wanted to do growing up. She thinks if she can become a "True" Guardian, she'll be able to meet up with her sister again, who went missing during the Rebellion(?).

Noemi 2: This chapter is about showing the second dimension. We've already presented the fact that the Guardians Rebelled, it was Bad. But now we show that the system that's in place isn't perfect either. From Noemi 1, Given the mess of what happened/island structure, they need to resupply/use an opposite port, which necessitates hanging around in the city, which is rife with crime and nastiness. This is where our wilderness section comes in, an urban jungle of sorts. Here is also where Noemi and Kasia show off Dissonant healing at its worst. Chapter ends with having explored the local Plantation and on good terms with its owner.

Isolde 2: Not much change from Andy's outline, except that we're adding in a sea-faring Disquieted Beast as an early boss-random.

On Mirek and Erastus' relationship: Rebellion happens -> Fall out for the Crimson House Scion -> Mirek seeks assistance from uncle with clout -> Uncle with clout ignores him/tells him to fuck off for various reasons -> Mirek goes screw you too, uncle -> Estrangement.



Jumping ahead to After the 2nd FPI trip:
<Excal>   When the four parties meet in the aftermath of the time skip, it can be with the GK islands forward base getting attacked.
   Nice dramatic way for Noemi/Mirek to show up and show what they learned.
   Then, they reason out that even with that, playing defensive is a losing game, but with this new knowedge, they can charge forward.
   And then we have all four parties with their own dungeon, give you an idea of what each dungeon is going to contain, and let you pick the parties.
The 4 mains forced as the heads of each of their parties.
   One specific dungeon I want on the Imperial Path is for them to have one target you need to hit with a small team that is impossible to reach from the sea, but because of their raising land from the sea for dissonance farming, there's now a land bridge.
   But one they don't think anyone can use because it's heavily disquieted, and they've tossed people in there to become abominations, just to make sure.
   Naturally, that's Mirek's dungeon.
   Yiu and Isolde would get targets that involve armies, since they're the army leaders, with GK and Imperial forces respectively.  While Noemi and Mirek get smaller targets getting hit with special forces.

[Excal]

Alright!  This time I'm updating instead of Djinn.  Why?  Because he hasn't been around, oddly enough.

So Andy and I have cracked our heads together, and finish mapping out most of the rest of the first half (aka, before the time skip).  Djinn is around for the early Mirek stuff.

After a brief interlude on a different day where the wrinkles with Mirek's early chapters are smoothed out, we've got him settled, with Josef introducing him to the main camp and Orienna, who is both Mirek's Ex and the regional Guardian commander.  Stuff still backfires as originally planned, but it has been shown that Temp-Josef is going to be around and filling in for Artur in M1.  Mirek 2 involves the discovery of a training camp, where Claire finds him.  Slight change, she no longer has a hard-on for joining the rebel Guardians, instead "convincing" Mirek to take her on as a student because he still seems to hold to the old ways of actually guarding stuff.  I'd not that she's in for some real disappointment if fate didn't have it in for Mirek.

Isolde's path will involve her getting an offer to defect since she's just a mercenary, and there will be a hectic escape when she declines.  Mirek may or may not come clean before the Festival.

Slight change in that Mirek gets to face the head honcho now that Orienna has climbed in importance.  Mirek also gets to be the token main who 'loses'.  Which makes sense, his low point needs to be early so that he can recover and be strong later when everyone else falters.  So, you win the fight, but Orienna still essentially lets him go, as him winning the fight is simply a ploy to give her the situational advantage.  But she doesn't want to kill him, or force him into anything yet.  Isolde, on the other hand, spots Mr. Second in Command, and toasts him.  While Noemi and her crew have to break through Josef, who will hopefully get enough talking time to let Noemi have some inkling that these guys aren't complete monsters.

End Djinn's involvement (at least for now).

At this point, issues arise with two sequences.  Isolde's trip back home, and Mirek's arc between leaving Noemi and getting captured.

Isolde's issue is pretty simple.  The chapter where she gets to the capital is talk, talk, talk, with no fight, fight, fight.  It also gives away what's going to happen with Mirek when they meet up.  On the other hand, it's a great chance to foreshadow just how split the imperial core is, as well as showcase how powerless the Empress is.

Solution?  For starters, the previous Isolde chapter is supposed to be Isolde vs. Selene.  That got moved to this chapter, and the one before will showcase a noble going into open rebellion, and Isolde trying to survive the crossing of his land, because she doesn't have the time to avoid it.  Motives haven't really been discussed yet, but he may be working loosely with the Guardians, or knows that they're up to something and is being opportunistic.  So, now we have the conflict, which is Selene trying to kill Isolde while she's in her home turf.  This will allow for us to actually devote a chapter to Isolde's backstory, and who she is.  Additionally, this will all happen in between attempts to organize the meeting, or at least convince people one is needed, which will allow for the showing of some cracks.  The meeting itself will be skipped over, but will be skipped over in such a way as to suggest that all that's going on is Isolde telling them repeatedly a bunch of stuff that we already know.  When she returns, she'll be visibly agitated and otherwise upset, but with orders to return to Noemi and her group ASAP.

Mirek, is a bit trickier, and not all of the issues there have been worked out yet.

For starters, when it comes to the big picture, he doesn't have enough plot to sustain three chapters.  At least, not enough big picture plot.  However, taking a look at the plot flow, the big choice that Mirek is supposed to have can only fit in here if it's going to happen.  And dealing with that gives enough material to invoke a third chapter, as well as set him up for the capitol and the FPI arc.

Current plot flow seems to be, Mirek is left behind in order to provide a distraction from pursueing Guardians, as well as to let Isolde know what's up.  The Guardians in this case happen to be a small group led by Orienna, heading in under the pretext of keeping intruders from looking over the old base (which, I'd imagine the Guardians don't actually care about anymore) and more in order to try and knock reason back into Mirek's thick skull.

Basic agreed outline is that Mirek 5 involves them realising they're outmatched and fleeing Orienna's group to a minor city that's as far from major disquiet as they can find.  Mirek 6 involves Orienna trying to kill Eirwen, and Mirek stopping her followed by a choice to either get revenge or hold back and not sink to that.  (This early, I don't think Forgiveness enters the picture)  This will also resolve the Orienna/Mirek plotline for now, and possibly permanently.  Mirek 7 involves the Guardian troubleshooter entering the picture.  There to tell Orienna off for not being in position (assuming she still lives) and also to take over and deal with whatever it is she's found that she can't deal with in as much time as she's been given to deal with it.  Naturally, this person has far less of a vested interest in Mirek's survival, and he now needs to scramble to stay in one piece until Isolde saves the day.  Especially since Mirek 6/7 is when Artur is slated for his breakdown and departure.

When Isolde shows up, she not only saves the day.  But also comes with Imperial reinforcements.  Then she introduces her real role, and arrests Mirek.  Cue the option to either surrender, or enter a Suikoden 3 style "unwinnable" fight.


So, what's up here that's still up in the air?

For starters, I've been tossing around the idea of Orienna as a possible PC.  I mean, she's pretty much in the same plot role as Selene right now, except far, far more sympathetic.  She'd also fill in the role of 20th PC that'd show up late in the Imperial Endgame, choosing to stay loyal instead of breaking ranks with the rest of the Guardians.  Works thematically with her backstory, and it'd be easy to tweak the writing a bit to let that happen.  Possibly make it so that choices made in regards to her also help influence the ending.  Though, this section is also a biggie for Artur re-recruitment, so hey, may or may not be an issue.

Secondly, there's the issue of how Chapter 5 will end, as well as pretty much the whole of Chapter 6.  Which has been a somewhat heated debate.

For those of you keeping up, there was supposed to be a choice somewhere where Mirek had to deal with his issues of people vs. duty, which is more important to him.  This was supposed to come out as Mirek having to pick between his team and its goals, and Eirwen.  This also had to happen before the FPI sequence, and at a point where the results would not be catastrophic either way.  Oddly enough, a segment where one or the other would be captured by Orienna works perfectly, since while she is an Antagonist, she's not a malevolent one, and she's not aiming to kill, just convert.

So, originally, the choice is made at the end of Chapter 5, where Mirek and crew are almost safe, but they get set upon by Orienna's group, and Eirwen gets separated.  Mirek has to choose.  And, depending on how he chooses, either Eirwen or Artur ends up grabbed.  Orienna then retreats to an area nearby where she has a bit of a stronghold, knowing that now Mirek will come to her.  And more to the point, she can't really take a town, and there's no value in holding this place anyways.  So, Mirek has to, for the first time in the game, be pro-active.  This ends with his finding a way to break the person he's after free, but with a final battle with Orienna.  With the choice changed, the battle wouldn't be immeadiate, but after a conversation followed by the attempt to kill Eirwen a boss fight ensues where you stop her.  Then you get Mirek's choice to slay or spare.

Honestly, I like this one because it works as a nice cohesive package.  You get hooks from one chapter to the next, and a reason to look forward to what's up next.  Actually, I need to add a hook to the end of Chapter 6, but that could be the arrival of the troubleshooter there get Mirek to run off after he makes his choice, but before he can really make good on it.  Main complaints seem to be a general hatred towards the idea of the love interest being in danger.  But that's...  well, necessary for the conflicts in Mirek/Orienna and Mirek/Artur, and arguably for Mirek/Mirek.  So, take those complaints for what you will.  The other big thing I like here is that it does leave the option open for the duty vs. people choice, as well as having Mirek firmly take the initiative when his personal survival isn't at stake.

The counter scenario, provided by Andy, ends with Chapter 5 seeing everyone safe.  Orienna then lays siege to the town or otherwise tries to take the place in order to try and get to Mirek.  There is fighting, and the lines are eventually broken, which leads to Orienna attacking Eirwen.  Mirek doesn't freeze this time, and Orienna is again left at his mercy with the same choice.

The main upside to this one?  No girl vs. the world lite.  Well, it also kinda echos the bit in Mirek's backstory where Orienna kills someone else close to him in pitched battle.  But it's not a thematic echo because the details are all wrong.  No inner conflict, no real indecision.  Hell, not even Orienna's it's battle that happens reasoning, because plotwise?  Eirwen's not a threat.  I mean, Mirek's cousin was a fully trained Guardian who would, and could, have killed her.  Eirwen, while somewhat effective, has the least plot power in a fight of all the people we stick into combat.  So yeah, the resemblance is entirely superficial.

So, yeah.  That's the issue, there's my scenario which I feel is a lot tighter and works better as a package, but seems to hit a fair number of random hate buttons.  And Andy's package, which needs work (though, admittedly, it is more of a work in progress than my own scenario) but seems to hit less random hate buttons (and let's be honest, because both scenarios involve love interest in danger, we're going to be hitting those random hate buttons anyways).

So yeah, discuss.

[AndrewRogue]

Noemi
Thematic: Approaching Your Dreams with Unflinching Dedication
Quote: "I don't remember when I first thought about getting rid of the Disquiet. Its just always been something I've wanted. I just remember believing that this was something I could do and, well, here I am, with a real chance to make a difference. I'm smart enough to figure it out. I just need to keep pushing forward, no matter what."

Noemi is a take on the standard belief in your dreams, combined with a bit of pursuit of the scholarly and the power of humanity thrown in the mix. She's a woman married to her cause and who does have the power to see her dreams through to the end. Despite being quite gifted, she believes in hard work to achieve her ends and, even when she found tasks easy, completed them to the best of her ability.  Despite this, the intensity of her drive is enough to sort of sweep people up in her wake. Even if she isn't aware, Noemi is something of a natural leader, drawing people to her and helping them see her dream. Although she harbors some conception of romantic fantasy, it really isn't of real interest to her. While there is something to be said for it, it requires an amount of focus that Noemi just isn't willing to give.

Problematically, Noemi has never really suffered any major setbacks or tragedies in her life. She was orphaned when she was young and, although there is something to be said for that being a bit of a drag, the Crimson House Orphanage treated her well and she and the other orphans did have a family of sorts. So once things start to finally turn south to her, Noemi's dedication begins to to crumble a bit as she's faced with the reality that achieving your dreams isn't always a matter of hard work and personal sacrifice. She is also a bit too absorbed in her work as well, often missing things going on around her, which causes her to miss out on obvious sources of tension and stress in her comrades, as well as being oblivious to their small scale conditions.

Isolde
Thematic: Being a Leader/Being a Hero
"Someone asked if I regret what I did, once. They were actually surprised when I said I didn't. But it is true. I don't regret the decision. It had to be done. The only thing I regret is that it had to be made in the first place. "

Isolde is a woman whom entered the military at a young age as part of a family career plan and has stuck to that life. Talented and intelligent, she advanced quickly and earned the renown of her fellows and her superiors. She has always put the interests of the empire ahead of her own, which made her quite capable of making difficult decisions with little debate. She realized early on that, while there are difficult decisions to be made, endlessly struggling with them achieved nothing. Despite the cold and callous nature she seems to possess, she is actually quite warm. She just keeps it off when she is on business.

She eschewed relationships early in her career, realizing, that, unfortunately, there was simply too much of a conflict of interest for her. While she looks forward to a day where she might be able to retire and pursue another sort of life, for now, the Empire is far more in need of her attention.

Isolde's cold demeanor is one of her biggest weaknesses, in that it often brings her into conflict with people who believe she is completely uncaring. Furthermore, she tends to internalize her problem, preferring not to exhibit weakness in front of her subordinates. Although she typically manages the stress well, sometimes she just really needs the chance to wind down. Even though she tries to conceal it, others opinions of her do matter, and it is hard to conceal some bitterness that Erastus is hailed as a hero while she was forced to, essentially, go into hiding.

Mirek
Thematic: Coming to Terms
"I guess... I guess I'm just afraid. Afraid that it'll all just go the same way again. Afraid I'll make the same mistakes as I did before. Afraid that they're right about me. Afraid that I'll just finally lose it.  Afraid of losing something important to me again. Afraid... of losing you. Heh. That sounds pathetic, doesn't it? But its the truth."

Mirek is a young man who hides his hopes and ambitions behind a facade of dour disinterest. Although he feigns a certain jerkish slant, his good natured core always seems to manage to shine through somehow. Nevertheless, afraid of what happened in the past, he struggles to maintain a distance between himself, others and his past.  For the time, he is lost, unsure of what he needs or even wants out of life - a drifter looking for something to connect to. Even finding something he wants, he must fight with himself over whether he's willing to bring it within arm's reach or keep it pushed away. Although he tends to appear relaxed and neutral most of the time, Mirek is actually a relatively emotional man, prone to outbursts.

Although the young man acts like he's capable of surviving perfectly well in isolation, Mirek shines best when working with others. Unfortunately, thism along with his emotional nature, makes him rather easy to provoke and manipulate if you know his buttons. In addition, Mirek has a distinctive fear of loss that is easily exploitable.

Yiu
Thematic: Approval and Fame
"Its simple, really. Who's to say that the prophecy isn't simply a matter of taking charge? The right person provides the right guidance to the right candidate and, suddenly, you've got the First Practitioner reborn! I'll make the man and be the hero of the prophecy!"

The middle son of one of the largest tribes in the Twelve God Islands, Yiu is a clever and inventive man, with a firm grasp of mechanisms, who has a tendency to open his mouth before thinking. Lacking any talent for Flow manipulation, Yiu has had to work hard to maintain his place in his family. Although he is being groomed as a possible successor to his father, Yiu often enjoys spending time away from the courts and councils, enjoying the company of others or simply being alone with nature. He loves the theater and partakes whenever able. Despite the rigid structure of their society, having travelled, Yiu finds himself inclined to often favor the self over the whole. Still, that doesn't stop him from being a dominant authority figure and is often surprised when others don't immediately fall into line behind his zany logic.

On the whole, unfortunately, Yiu has tendency to act before fully thinking things out, often requiring his companions to fill in the gaps as he goes along. In addition, he is constantly conflicted by the desire to retain standing in his family and to live the life he wants to, leading to him attempting bigger and better things in the name of his family in an effort to make up for his other shortcomings or mistakes. It is fairly debatable if he has ever matured past his teenage years, based on his apparent belief in his own immortality.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Alright!  This time I'm updating instead of Djinn.  Why?  Because he hasn't been around, oddly enough.

Thanks! I was gone all weekend, so this is extremely helpful!

For starters, when it comes to the big picture, he doesn't have enough plot to sustain three chapters.  At least, not enough big picture plot.  However, taking a look at the plot flow, the big choice that Mirek is supposed to have can only fit in here if it's going to happen.  And dealing with that gives enough material to invoke a third chapter, as well as set him up for the capitol and the FPI arc.

Current plot flow seems to be, Mirek is left behind in order to provide a distraction from pursueing Guardians, as well as to let Isolde know what's up.  The Guardians in this case happen to be a small group led by Orienna, heading in under the pretext of keeping intruders from looking over the old base (which, I'd imagine the Guardians don't actually care about anymore) and more in order to try and knock reason back into Mirek's thick skull.

I'm good with everything up to here at least!

Basic agreed outline is that Mirek 5 involves them realising they're outmatched and fleeing Orienna's group to a minor city that's as far from major disquiet as they can find.  Mirek 6 involves Orienna trying to kill Eirwen, and Mirek stopping her followed by a choice to either get revenge or hold back and not sink to that.  (This early, I don't think Forgiveness enters the picture)  This will also resolve the Orienna/Mirek plotline for now, and possibly permanently.  Mirek 7 involves the Guardian troubleshooter entering the picture.  There to tell Orienna off for not being in position (assuming she still lives) and also to take over and deal with whatever it is she's found that she can't deal with in as much time as she's been given to deal with it.  Naturally, this person has far less of a vested interest in Mirek's survival, and he now needs to scramble to stay in one piece until Isolde saves the day.  Especially since Mirek 6/7 is when Artur is slated for his breakdown and departure.

When Isolde shows up, she not only saves the day.  But also comes with Imperial reinforcements.  Then she introduces her real role, and arrests Mirek.  Cue the option to either surrender, or enter a Suikoden 3 style "unwinnable" fight.

Mostly okay with all of this, except for Orienna trying to kill Eirwen. I honestly think that they Guardians shouldn't partake of that kind of outright cruelty. They know there are going to be sacrifices to fix the Plantation system, but they still primarily believe that they are doing the right thing. Killing an innocent woman (even your Ex's new girlfriend) just doesn't fall under that, and I don't think Orienna should be out for Eirwen's blood. Even if she -does- want to Separate Mirek and Ei, she won't do it through murder.

So, what's up here that's still up in the air?

For starters, I've been tossing around the idea of Orienna as a possible PC.  I mean, she's pretty much in the same plot role as Selene right now, except far, far more sympathetic.  She'd also fill in the role of 20th PC that'd show up late in the Imperial Endgame, choosing to stay loyal instead of breaking ranks with the rest of the Guardians.  Works thematically with her backstory, and it'd be easy to tweak the writing a bit to let that happen.  Possibly make it so that choices made in regards to her also help influence the ending.  Though, this section is also a biggie for Artur re-recruitment, so hey, may or may not be an issue.

Not really in support of Orienna as a PC. First of all, she mirrors Selena too much for them -both- to join, regardless of your opinion of how developed Selena is at the moment (we haven't spent any time fleshing her out yet, it's kind of hard to make that kind of blanket statement on how sympathetic she is). Secondly, this introduces yet another female Guardian PC. It's already a little unbalanced that Mirek is the only male Guardian we have, but we have Ilona and Claire, and even Meilin is a Guardian descendent. If we're adding another Guardian PC, it should be a male (I'd use Josef, just off hand).

*Note that forced endgame PC count is actually 15 (Aurel/Erastus are definitely gone, Kasia/Artur/Selena are optional). I'm assuming that the original idea of Eirwen possibly being gone forever has been dropped at this point? I still kind of liked the idea of her being a possible death, but I guess Aurel is enough PC-killing.

Secondly, there's the issue of how Chapter 5 will end, as well as pretty much the whole of Chapter 6.  Which has been a somewhat heated debate.

For those of you keeping up, there was supposed to be a choice somewhere where Mirek had to deal with his issues of people vs. duty, which is more important to him.  This was supposed to come out as Mirek having to pick between his team and its goals, and Eirwen.  This also had to happen before the FPI sequence, and at a point where the results would not be catastrophic either way.

I haven't really been a fan of this small-scale version of the 'Choice' from the beginning, but I'm willing to see how it goes.

Oddly enough, a segment where one or the other would be captured by Orienna works perfectly, since while she is an Antagonist, she's not a malevolent one, and she's not aiming to kill, just convert.

So, originally, the choice is made at the end of Chapter 5, where Mirek and crew are almost safe, but they get set upon by Orienna's group, and Eirwen gets separated.  Mirek has to choose.  And, depending on how he chooses, either Eirwen or Artur ends up grabbed.  Orienna then retreats to an area nearby where she has a bit of a stronghold, knowing that now Mirek will come to her.  And more to the point, she can't really take a town, and there's no value in holding this place anyways.  So, Mirek has to, for the first time in the game, be pro-active.  This ends with his finding a way to break the person he's after free, but with a final battle with Orienna.  With the choice changed, the battle wouldn't be immeadiate, but after a conversation followed by the attempt to kill Eirwen a boss fight ensues where you stop her.  Then you get Mirek's choice to slay or spare.

This could work, but my hate buttons have been pressed. How about circumventing the whole  'Eirwen gets captured' plot with 'Eirwen gets separated, Mirek/Artur go to rescue her, thinking she's captured'? Ei shows up when the confrontation between Mirek/Ori is about to get violent, gets herself hurt, but actually helps Mirek out with this action. However, this starts the chain of events where Mirek gets angry at Ori for hurting Ei, and Artur gets angry at Mirek for causing Ei to get hurt.

Depending on how you play it, you can still have the reaction where Orienna is hurt that Mirek would be proactive for Ei, but not for her.

This doesn't change much, but it -does- make Eirwen less passive and useless, while still showing off Mirek and Artur's concern for her.

On the gameplay side of things: Is Rafael around at this point? There's enough boss-fighting going on here that we really want a full party.

On the trouble-shooter: I'm assuming this is Val from Nama's notes. She's a subcommander, like Orienna, but at this point, I think it's fine to introduce her (we can kill her if she's not needed later, but I suspect she'll make a good post-timeskip boss too).


More on additional PCs: There was some talk in chat about introducing some Splitpath PCs to fill out the ranks due to Aurel/Erastus not being around later on. While I'm fine with wanting to have someone fill in these gaps, I don't really like Splitpath PCs too much.

But I think I have a compromise!

Originally, we wanted to toss in an Extra PC for split-party Dungeons near endgame, after going back to the FPI and gathering Mirek, Erastus and co.

Since Erastus is still around at this point, we only need -one- extra PC to have the full optional 20 for the split-party Dungeon. (Aurel is the only one definitely -not- in the party, and all three of Kasia/Artur/Selena should have been able to be recruited at this point.)

It was proposed that one of the remnants of the losing faction (Imperial or Guardian) was left on the FPI with Mirek. This person was probably who was supposed to be the 'Splitpath PC' that chat talked about. After all, even though Noemi's party beat down their faction, Mirek has been protecting them along with Erastus, Ilona, and Rafael. That could certainly make them want to return the favor.

Now, who is this person? Well, it was proposed that it would be the most redeemable of the subcommanders from either the Guardians or the Imperial Council, whichever side ended up losing (as decided by the player). I suggest that the Guardian option be Josef. He's already designed as a Temp PC in Mirek's opening, as well as another badly-needed male Guardian PC. This would disclude Orienna as an option (which is also important for Mirek's choice of killing her or not).
The only good option on the Imperial Side is Sigkeit, who was launched into his position simply by being really popular with his fellows, so he's obviously likable and redeemable enough to be forgiven if he ends up on the losing side on the FPI. We can use someone else if Sig's too hard to work with, but he's not really fleshed out at this point, so he's malleable to fit into whatever role we need him for.

To avoid Splitpath PC issues, I suggest that both of them end up stranded on the FPI with Mirek, but that one of them joins immediately to head for the split-party dungeon (and boost our roster now that Aurel's gone), and the other one can head off to deliver a message to some troops to their remnant faction, and join later just after Erastus turns (making them an even later-joining PC than Selena, yes, but it's kind of a requirement due to Erastus' late betrayal).

This would mean that on the 'Guardians are big bads' path that Josef joins initially while Sigkeit goes off to help his remaining Imperial faction troops. While on the 'Imperials are the big bads' path, Sigkeit joins along with Mirek/Erastus after they're found on the FPI, while Josef goes off to help the Guardian rebel remnants that have agreed to help Noemi et al.

Thus, it's kind of Splitpath (whoever you want -first-), but you eventually get both. And this ensures that the endgame forced PC count is 17, with 3 optionals (Artur, Kasia, Selena). You -could- conceivably make both of them optional, too (like a Suikoden-style 'No, we don't need your help, but there's no reason -not- to accept a free party member' deal). This would drop the count to 15 forced (enough for 3 full parties), with 5 optionals (enough for 4 full parties).

Brings the total PC count to 22, which makes Djinn all kinds of happy.

But this is only if you -really- want to make more PCs. I'm not entirely sold on us needing more, though I would suggest that Josef gets some of Aurel's skills if we go with this.


Re: Andy's post on the Viewpoint PCs:

Cool stuff, though Yiu's clashes with my view of him somehow. Noemi, Isolde, and Mirek all look good, but Yiu seems weird and doesn't even mention Meilin, which is missing a big part of his character. Not to mention that he seems like the kind of person that enjoys leading and expects people to follow his orders regardless of whether he's earned their trust or not, so he should have a commanding presence that most people end up listening to whether they mean to or not.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Some thoughts on Selena since we've never talked about her:

Selena represents a chance to use gameplay to offer some fluidity to the story, so she's not too heavily tied to the plot after her potential death.

However, should she live, her recruitment scene is a good opportunity to define Isolde as a leader. This is a woman who hates Isolde for the decision she made that caused her brother's death. However, this is also a moment where Isolde gets to show off how pragmatism is an important part of being leader. And also how pragmatism can save people from being too emotional. When Isolde comes across Selena in her optional recruitment area, Selena still wants Isolde dead, but she's also a little unsure due to Isolde being directly responsible for saving her life. Isolde sees this as an opportunity to not only stop Selena's constant attacks, but also make amends. Isolde -could- try to appeal to Selena's forgiveness, a life for a life, after all. BUT THIS IS THE WRONG WAY TO GO ABOUT IT.

Instead, Isolde rationalizes with Selena. Soldiers are needed, the UIM is in the wrong hands, no matter who has it. Selena shouldn't waste her time here with Isolde when there are important things that need to be done.

So, it's a triumph for pragmatism, in an RPG. Isolde gets an ally, Selena gets a purpose and a chance to start accepting her brother's death. And maybe can even see things from Isolde's point of view, even if she doesn't agree with it. So, Isolde helps Selena emotionally through a pragmatic action, and solidifies her capabilities as a leader, which is the main theme of her chapter.

Additionally, Selena's father is supposed to be a Dissonant-using Noble (possibly the one who organized Noemi et al's escape by tipping off the Guardians). I'm guessing he owns a Plantation, possibly the one that Claire was originally assigned to, if we need some more connections between people.

[074]

RE: Splitpath PCs.  I'm fine with it being splitpath, honestly (most 'redeemable' from the losing side only).  Partly since that means less random throwaway filler bossfights for the penultimate dungeon (At that point, I'd rather NOT just have random guys for bosses in that area, not when we already have a number of subcommanders for either side to draw from)  Furthermore, this is why I'd rather the winning-side subcommanders survive to that point, come to think of it.  I may be a bit of an ass about the symmetry here, but there's a deliberate reasoning behind it.

RE: Selena.  Indeed, I intended for the reason she joins to be a pragmatic one, rather than an emotional one.  Though at that point (Isolde 10), I don't think she'd be trying to kill Isolde--having been beaten by her even with a high-end (albeit life-threatening) Flow amplifier, she'd have at least come to face the fact that she simply can't win.  And would instead just be bitter and morose, and still despises Isolde.  The nature still stands (appeal pragmatically, not emotionally), just that she wouldn't do something like fight something she -knows- she can't win.

[Excal]

I think I like the idea of Selene keeping up her opposition after the credits roll.  But perhaps something like becoming leader of the opposition and taking up politics.

[AndrewRogue]

Erastus
Thematic: Resentment and Stagnation
"Did I ever tell you about the time I first summoned a flame lasher? Those were good times. Clacygael had just wanted a spicy vegetable to snack on and, next thing we know, half the kitchen was on fire and my brother-in-law was threatening to throw us all out into the Disquiet. Good times, those were. Good times."
"You just don't get it, do you? I've been trying to show you that life is unfair! To show you how terrible things really are, and you just refuse to get it! What do I have to do to convince you of how wrong this really is? Maim you? Immolate someone you love? Eat a baby? Life. Is. Unfair!"

Erastus is a jolly old man who spends his time laughing and joking. Never short a quip or a spot of gallows humor to brighten the mood, Erastus is often a joy to associate with. He was once a family man, and this quality remains in him, even having lost most of his family. He is protective of those around him and strives to take a deep interest in them and learn as much as he can. He's always has a shoulder ready for someone to cry on and an open ear to listen if you need to talk. All told, the man is a brilliant example of the idea that, even in the darkest circumstances, there always remains a single bright ray of hope nestled somewhere inside. Except... if you listen to him, you'll start to notice little oddities. The way the smile never quite seems to reach his eyes. The subtle, cynical note to his jokes. The quirk to his tone that often leaves you wondering if what he said was really a joke in the first place. The way he seems to almost study you as you speak, committing each thing you say to memory.

Perhaps the biggest weakness that Erastus possesses is he seems to often be absorbed in his own world, where  he has his own expectations and his own interpretation of things going around. He is also a meticulous planner and prone to having poor reactions when things start to get out of his control. Suffice to say, going with the flow is not a talent of Erastus', and he is unsatisfied to simply follow the plans of others.

Kasia
Thematic: Devotion
"We really can do it, that's what I believe. If we push forward and keep trying harder each time, I'm sure we'll succeed. And if we don't? Well then we just try again! You can't give up."

Kasia is an energetic young woman with a sharp mind and a strong will. Although not as keen as many of her fellow students, she made up for it through hard work, dedication and sticking to her practices. She's worked hard to emulate her friend Noemi in her study of the Disquiet, but has also sought to branch out into other fields that better complement her natural tendencies (Dissonant healing and archery, as examples). She is caring individual, willing to go to almost any lengths for the people she cares about, and has continuously demonstrated this tendency throughout her life. She has a bit of a hot streak and tends to get easily frustrated when things aren't going her way, but tends to struggle through it anyway believing that it can be done if she simply tries hard enough. She loves group efforts, favoring them over individual ones.

Kasia's most notable weakness is that she tends towards being a follower. While she possesses the capacity to act independently and toward her own ends, she rarely chooses to, instead favoring assisting others in their aspirations. To this end, she has a bit of a blind spot when it comes to finding errors in what others are doing, instead trying to prop up whatever they're doing with all of her might. Much like Mirek, Kasia can also be easily manipulated where the people she cares about are concerned.

Aurel
Thematic: Sacrifice for One's Goals
"I've been a part of the military since I was young enough to sign up, and I've never regretted it for a moment. It is a rough life, but this is what I want to do. Every injury, every wound and every scar... it'll all be worth it, in my opinion."

A strong-willed young man, Aurel has always believed that the Empire was a structure worth preserving, and one that he could improve. Lacking the intelligence of his childhood friends, Aurel's nonetheless shared their tenacity and used it to propel him forward into the military. Although he never advanced far in the military hierarchy, he gained a small amount of renown for his willingness to give his all on assignments and his strenuous efforts to always make sure what he was doing was for the best. His tendency to question orders and try for alternate solutions in questionable situations often got him in trouble, Nevertheless, even when the Empire has been in the wrong, he has stood by them and defended them, even when his life and limb were on the line. He's well aware of the risks he takes, even at this stage, but it isn't in him to retire. The Empire isn't perfect, but he'll see it improved before he dies.

Aurel's loyalty to the empire is one of his major failings. Although he does question orders at times, he will suck it up and complete the task in the way that best aligns with best with both his sensibilities and the aims of the empire. Furthermore, he is a born risk taker, his first plan of attack often being the one most directly dangerous to him. He trusts a little too much in his own abilities to see him through out of dangerous situations, a trait that often leads to him sustaining notable injuries. Finally, rumors persist that Aurel isn't quite right in the head and that he may be suffering from the onset of Disquieting sickness.

Eirwen
Thematic: Reaching Out and Feeding Potential
"You aren't the only who's afraid or who's been betrayed. I know what it feels like, and I really am terrified of it happening again. But I realized that I can't just keep crying about it or give up hope that things will ever work out. If you'd let me... I could show you that it really will be all right."

A genius in the culinary arts, Eirwen is a girl who has been forced to stand independently since a young age. A bit soft spoken, Eirwen often prefers to resolve issues peacefully and through compromise, but when provoked, she has no issues laying down the law. She is a person of action who enjoys seizing the moment and doing what she really wants to, even if she fears the consequences. A trait no doubt tied to her Senses, Eirwen possesses the ability to be a keen judge of character and be relatively insightful. She is deeply dedicated to cooking and considers it a practical art form, striving for each piece to be a delight to the senses, the mind and the heart. Even simple dishes are prepared with a surprising amount of love and care, and she is very prone to getting upset about people cooking improperly or denying it as an art.

Unfortunately, when provoked, Eirwen often a tendency to go slightly too far or overreact to the situation. She possesses a deep-seated fear of abandonment, which has colored many of her past interactions. In addition, she has a bit of a tendency to undervalue her instincts, often wondering if her bad feelings about people are just overreactions from her past experiences. Also, it probably goes without saying, but as far as self-defense goes, she is probably the least competent PC.

Shao
Thematic: Duty.
"I do not understand why so many people are troubled with doing their duty. If your duty is unsatisfactory, then why do you continue to stay in the place that necessitates you fulfill it? I take great pleasure in working for my people and love the political game. If I did not, I would renounce my position as an heir and live a life among the masses. I believe there is a saying for the idea, no?"

A clever and resourceful man, Shao is one of the lesser sons of a Twelve God Kings tribal leader. Although he adopted a facade of being an ignorant (and somewhat stupid) foreigner while at the Academy, beneath the mask lies a quick and predatory mind. When it comes to political dealings, the man is merciless in his pursuits and works hard to integrate himself in situations that he sees as beneficial to his tribe. While he is willing to work in honest cooperation, he always prioritizes his people over those he's working with.

Unsurprisingly, Shao's nature makes him a little abrasive once he drops the facade. He has no fears of sharing his unfiltered point of view with others, and this can often lead to conflict as he attacks perceived weaknesses or flaws. He is often quite lazy in learning new things, learning just enough to feign competence and then abandoning the pursuit, leading him to possess a number of supposed skills that would likely get him killed in attempting to actually use.

Artur
Thematic: Maturity and Selfishness
"I'm so tired of your stupid shit! Why should I have to put up with it? I've done my part, and frankly, I think I deserve to be rewarded for it."

Artur is an aggressive and self-centered young man. Growing up strong, he made a name for himself early and has always thought of himself as someone special. He rose to the top quickly in his small world, and enjoyed being king. He is quite forceful, insisting that things go his way and striving to keep everything in order. He is willing to work to get what he wants, but only as far as he deems necessary, believing strongly in the value of anything he does. He's very much a "good old boy" and lacks any shame in it. Artur thrives in situations of conflict, where his exceptional sense of self often guides him to victory.

Of course, taken too far, each of Artur's traits could well be a negative. Indulging in excesses, that, in fact, tends to be the case. In addition, Artur is rather territorial and possessive, even with things where he's not wanted/needed. Artur is very much the center of his own universe, something he has no issues reminding others of.

[DjinnAndTonic]

The new Erastus writeup is nice. The second quote is actually very chilling. His writeup seems like it would be the hardest to write to strike the balance you did. Though I have to protest out-of-principle for using the phrase 'smile that never seemed to reach his eyes'.

Updated outline looks good on a cursory glance, though I must admit that I like the more detailed style, so hopefully that will be the planned outcome of the 'third draft'.

---
Did some wiki updating!

All character pages have placeholder portraits made with Facemaker. This should give everyone an idea of the color schemes I'm looking at for the PCs. Once I finish the lineart for the rest of the cast (Artur, Aurel, Selena, Jin, Rafael), I'll throw together some actual portraits (with color, maybe!)

Also, I updated the main wiki page with a sorely-needed introduction. Please everyone read this and make sure it doesn't suck, as it's going to be the primary place to point people who are interested in the project. http://www.rpgdl.com/wiki/index.php?title=Untitled_IAQ_Project

[DjinnAndTonic]

http://www.rinkworks.com/fnovel/

Do we pass the test? ^

[AndrewRogue]

Let us see.

   1. No.
   2. No.
   3. No.
   4. Technically no.
   5. Technically no.
   6. Technically no.
   7. Technically no.
   8. No.
   9. No.
  10. No.
  11. No.
  12. No.
  13. No.
  14. Technically no.
  15. No.
  16. No.
  17. *glares at other DLers*
  18. Shit.
  19. Shit, again.
  20. Human only world, suckers.
  21. Human only world, suckers.
  22. Human only world, suckers.
  23. No.
  24. Transportation, baby.
  25. ...crap.
  26. I plead the fifth.
  27. Nope.
  28. You shut up,
  29. I said shut up ;_;.
  30. Thank the lord discs are thin.
  31. Nope.
  32. *whistles innocently*
  33. Nope, as I am still alive.
  34. I admit nothing.
  35. Nope.
  36. Nuh uh.
  37. Two at most. Bwahaha.
  38. That is wrong, yes.
  39. Human only world, suckers.
  40. Human only world, suckers.
  41. Human only world, suckers.
  42. Human only world, suckers. Also, lack of caves.
  43. Nope.
  44. I... I don't know how to answer this one...
  45. Nope.
  46. Eirwen would be sad.
  47. Probably.
  48. >_>
  49. Not technically.
  50. Maaaaaybe.
  51. No.
  52. No.
  53. ...I... yes...?
  54. Not really.
  55. Zombie horses can.
  56. No, but clearly Noemi or Erastus should.
  57. Nope!
  58. Nope.
  59. ...shit.
  60. Nope.
  61. No love interest, no love interest, girl next door and married. HA HA!
  62. Who do I look like, Piers Anthony?
  63. Not if I have any control over this.
  64. Is it Aurel?
  65. I do now.
  66. No, but it should.
  67. Ale, mead and beer are actually all different, right?
  68. Nope!
  69. We don't even have one, suckers.
  70. Nope.
  71. ...sorta.
  72. Pleading the fifth.
  73. No.
  74. No.
  75. ... ... ... ;_;

[Taishyr]

Looking through that quiz, only one thing really stands out:

uh, what the hell ass balls sorta point was he trying to make with the hay baler? That strikes me as horrendously nitpicky and binding sets of hay together would not have been a poor decision in the past anyway, even if not commonly done (and thus you wouldn't get perfect sets of baled hay, durr hay?) But maybe this is a really common mistake made and I don't read enough pulp fantasy.

Off topic, apologies.

[Cmdr_King]

I'd say that questions 18 and 19 invalidate the entire quiz anyway.  Obviously all women must be able to cook and kill people with equal skill?  whatever.

Anyway, 'beer' is a general term covering ales, pilsners, and lagers.   Mead meanwhile is a sort of wine made from honey.

[Talaysen]

  1. No.

Clearly we need 50 tutorial pages.

 17. *glares at other DLers*

I laughed.

 18. Shit.
  19. Shit, again.

Wouldn't change it for anything~

 26. I plead the fifth.

*eyes*

 28. You shut up,
  29. I said shut up ;_;.

I'm in.

 30. Thank the lord discs are thin.

Time to invent thick discs!

 34. I admit nothing.

I laughed before I even read the answer.

 44. I... I don't know how to answer this one...

<.<

 50. Maaaaaybe.

If not, we need to add those spells.  *nod*

 53. ...I... yes...?

I propose Hat Points instead.

 55. Zombie horses can.

We need more zombie horses.

 58. Nope.
  59. ...shit.

I'm sure Ilona's going to do that several times.  Give her scimitars and we get 58 too!

 62. Who do I look like, Piers Anthony?

Clearly we need to get Sage on the writing crew.

 64. Is it Aurel?

I laughed.

 66. No, but it should.

I approve of anything that adds more barrels.  Just sayin'.

 71. ...sorta.

I hate you.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Well, to be honest, I was a little worried that we were venturing too far into the cliched fantasy area with story and I'm happy to see that we avoided most of the problems that the test points out. I think this means we're moving in the right direction.

Although honestly, if we had avoided -all- of them, I would have worried that we were 'being different for the sake of being different', which is -also- a bad trap to fall into.

Also, we should totally make hit points part of our physics and they should get referenced in the story scenes~

[Dhyerwolf]

I'd argue that if anything question 30 is the invalidater of the quiz, because it makes me question whether the quiz writer actually even likes fantasy books anyways. If a fantasy book is good, you want to to be long as hell. I name one series where I could see the books being too long, and I honestly didn't care that much (More to read!). I can name five series where I would have would have loved for some awesome ideas to have been fleshed out more, and it was a fairly big deal.

I should also note that typing fantasy books stereotypes are not at all typical RPG stereotypes. Not sure if that applies here or not, but RPGs sent running for the hills when they start talking about hopes and dreams and bullcrap like that. A horribly typical RPG could basically avoid all the traps on that list and still fall into all the typical RPG ones!

[Excal]

<AndrewRogue> I need to rattle off some things real quick so that I have them thrown at different people
<AndrewRogue> So, real quick.
<MagicFanatic> 'Kay.
<AndrewRogue> 1. Reminder to self, general corre of the military/hierarchy should be presented as goodish.
<AndrewRogue> 2. Remember that Noemi is doing something that means a lot to  the general public and should be viewed favorly.
<AndrewRogue> 3. Empress needs some screentime
<@Excal> Yo
<AndrewRogue> 4. Remember Artur's progress toward maturity.
<AndrewRogue> 5. Mirek/Ei reaction to Kasia ganking Aurel (Ei faving some commitment issues realizing the strength of emotions involved here; Ei is scared of or even afraid of commitment? Hell, I just ripped off of House)
<AndrewRogue> ...scared or even afraid
<AndrewRogue> Fuck all I am tired
<@Excal> Get general stuff out, man
<@Excal> Don't worry about nitpicking the details.
<AndrewRogue> 6. Why the hell are the Guardians favoring eco-terrorism over finding the option C (religious elements; Guardian creed/history; Disquiet as a punishment)