Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!

[Taishyr]

FF8: If I felt like bothering I'd give everyone except maybe Squall a 5 and Squall a 6 but I don't feel like bothering especially since I can't just delete wastes of space so nyeh.

Final Fantasy Tactics Generics:
Squire: 3/10. Accumulate, Gained JP Up, and Move +1! Otherwise aha wut wut
Chemist: 8/10. Items.
Knight: 2/10. haha wut
Archer: 2/10. haha wut
Wizard: 8/10. - Boom
Priest: 5/10. Would be an awesome healer except Chemists exist.
Monk: 7/10 - solid earlygame offense, Wave Fist is cheap and solid range, Chakra/Revive/the status restore... all of it's sitch-dependent, but he gets a lot of it. Also Counter.
Thief: 2/10 - yeaaah
Time Mage: 4.5/10 - Has some okay stuff but... they aren't that good to me.
Oracle: 7.5/10. See Ciato.
Geomancer: 6.5/10. Good carrier, skillset doesn't fail too massively.
Lancer: 4.5/10. See Ciato.
Summoner: 9/10. Boom.
Mediator: 2/10. I was raising a mage, what's this nonmagicaljunk
Ninja: 7/10. Good damage lol defense.
Samurai: 4/10.  See Ciato.
Calculator: 3/10. Great skillset! It takes a while to get to and longer to make relevant so yeah no.
Bard: 1/10. Yeah boring.
Dancer: 5/10, this will be my one major "what". MT status was always useful for me. I'd give it higher except it's lategame to me.
Mime: 0/10. This isn't LFT or else I'd give Mime an 8

[Cmdr_King]

Meanwhile, thanks to a) the ease of refining high end HP boosts, b) the ability to simply not heal a character from base HP when using said boosts, and c) the Junction system by nature discouraging the actual casting of spells, I figure Limits are the most efficient and simplest form of offense to destroy the game with.  As such.

Final Fantasy 8:
Squall Leonhart: 7/10.  Auto-crit is useful in the earliest phases of the game, back when you still fight randoms, then at the end there's always Lionheart.  And of course, Renzokuken animates way faster than Duel.
Quistis Treppe: 3/10.
Zell Dincht: 7/10.
Seifer Almasy: ... mmm.  6/10.
Selphie Tilmitt: 3/10.
Laguna Loire: DNR
Kiros Seagill: DNR
Ward Zabac: DNR
Rinoa Heartilly: 5/10.
Irvine Kinneas: 5/10.  I find that AP ammo is ridiculously easy to get, that said it's still not THAT awesome.
Edea Kramer: DNR

Final Fantasy Tactics Generics:
Squire: 4/10.  Gained JP Up is a necessary skill, but clearly a stopover class.
Chemist: 8/10.  Rarely use them myself, but that's a personal quirk.
Knight: 3/10.
Archer: 4/10.
Wizard: 6/10.
Priest: 6/10.
Monk: 4/10.
Thief: 2/10.
Time Mage: 5/10.
Oracle: 7/10.
Geomancer: 6/10.
Lancer: 5/10.
Summoner: 7/10.
Mediator: 3/10.
Ninja: 7/10.
Samurai: 5/10.
Calculator: 7/10.  Mmm... yeah, the investment involved is worth a point reduction.
Bard: 2/10.
Dancer: 2/10.
Mime: 1/10.  Hm.  They take a heavily built up character who should easily be achieving game breaking status and reduce them to a wasted slot, so clearly sub-two.  Does it damage you enough to be worth a 0... nah, you can do FFT with four characters.  Unless Mimes are more likely to nuke your own side than do nothing or something?  I've never been patient enough to grind one out.

[Yoshiken]

Meanwhile, thanks to a) the ease of refining high end HP boosts, b) the ability to simply not heal a character from base HP when using said boosts, and c) the Junction system by nature discouraging the actual casting of spells, I figure Limits are the most efficient and simplest form of offense to destroy the game with.  As such.

This. This this this.
The way I see this, Rinoa's only good Limit is very late-game, and isn't even that great then. Selphie's is useful early on, and that's a longer section and a section that needs it more, Zell's is ridiculously good (because, yes, I do use the Limit to, uhh, deal damage. I'm not penalising Zell because some people don't put in the best commands when it's blindingly obvious), Irvine's... well, Irvine's got a lower score than Rinoa. Squall's is stupidly good, Quistis gets Degenerator for any and all randoms, and then some other random stuff from there, plus situational stuff like Missiles. So yeah, I'd say Rinoa is second-worst. Technically, they should all be closer together, but in-game use is relative to each other, so I'm not just gonna put them all as 'kinda average'.

I'm not actually penalising Rinoa for missing the Adel fight, btw. I'm not sure why I mentioned that, train of thought, etc. Think I was going on the topic of GFs not being all that great.

[SnowFire]

Mm.  Definitely on the "Limits and accuracy are all that matter, stats are irrelevant" side of things.  Even if you never use Limits - and you generally don't have to - Junctions should comprise a huge amount of your stat build.  If you're levelling up, then include stat bonuses (most notably Strength bonus).  I dunno, I was always the type of person who once a new magic was available, would immediately draw 100 copies for everyone.

Still, a fairly flat curve - since Junctions are so huge and everyone can use every spell character differences don't matter TOO much.

Final Fantasy 8:
Squall Leonhart: 7/10.  Auto-crits, perfect accuracy, Renzo is good if a bit inconsistent.
Quistis Treppe: 7/10.  Degenerator.  DEGENERATOR.  Available earlyish, too!  Makes the Underwater Research Lab or the Island Closest to Hell a breeze as the Ruby Dragons perish helplessly as nothing stops it.  Support Blue Magic is all right for boss battles.
Zell Dincht: 6/10.  Awesome limit damage, but that's about it.
Seifer Almasy: DNR.
Selphie Tilmitt: 4/10.  Sure Slots are twinkable, and Full Cure would be very helpful in a no-Magic no-Junctions playthrough, but requires more work than other characters to break the game.
Laguna Loire: 4/10.  MT limit is cute?
Kiros Seagill: 5/10.  Blood Pain was all right IIRC?
Ward Zabac: 4/10.  More MT limits.
Rinoa Heartilly: 3/10.  Uh Angelo Search can get you items!  And if you were doing a junctionless playthrough constant attempts praying for Invincible Moon could cheese some boss battles.  Angel Wing is twinkable but involves only junctioning Meteor and Ultima to HP and Magic and still being uncontrollable so screw that.  I only ever found out she has a stat edge from the RPGDL stat topic - with junctions, the difference is nearly irrelevant.
Irvine Kinneas: 4/10.  Actually Irvine has the highest limit damage in the game, or at least comparable to Zell....  for two Limits.  Then he'll be out of Fast Shot.  So uh potential boss-killer hype?!  But running out of ammo definitely makes him less interesting vs. randoms.  (I think the person who beat OMEGA Weapon Junctionless / devourless did it with either an Irvine / Zell / Squall party or an Irvine/Zell/Quistis one, IIRC.)
Edea Kramer: DNR.

Final Fantasy Tactics Generics:
Squire: 2/10. Gained JP up.
Chemist: 6/10 Auto-Potion is that broken, but I also didn't like using Chemist otherwise.  Is probably best if you're using a "screw magic everyone gets 12 Faith" strategy which didn't seem like fun.
Knight: 4/10.  Okay early, but definitely fades later, and by the time Knight Swords exist you give them to unique non-generics like Ubersquire or Holy Swordsman.  I will hype the end-of-Chap 2 fights with Gaffy as being quite hard Back In The Day and Break Weapon is a great way to win 'em.
Archer: 2/10.  Concentrate and nothing else.  Theoretically a run & gun could work with them, on some maps, but you needed to be able to take back moves and measure your attack range in advance for this not to involve pulling your hair out.
Wizard: 5/10.  Great in Chapter 1, falls *fast* after that (stupid Bolt3+ taking too long to cast) unless you're just using the class as a carrier.
Priest: 7/10.  I was a huge fan of FFT Priest.  GT Healing, revival, and a big shot of damage for emergencies.  MP an issue, but still.
Monk: 5/10.  Interesting, but ultimately just doesn't quite cut it.  GARR STUPID REVIVE VERTICAL TOLERANCE OF 0.  Pretty expensive to learn all the skills, too, though I'll grant early Hamedo would brutalize parts of the game.
Thief: 4/10.  Steal Heart, Move +2, next.
Time Mage: 4/10.  Also interesting but I wish Haste lasted longer.  Meteor requires you equip Short Charge.  Best used to counter enemy Time Mages by blowing away enemy Hastes with Slows.
Oracle: 4/10. Paralyze's hit rate was surprisingly good and not nearly immuned as often as I expected it to, but that was still ultimately a short-term fix for enemies.  Status hype would be good for 5 of you vs. 3 badass of them (that don't immune the status), but you're often fighting 10 averageish enemies, and you want to even the odds fast for that.
Geomancer: 5/10.  Interesting Fighter / Mage / Skirmisher.  Didn't feel like it had enough heft to stand on its own but okay support, like Monk.
Lancer: 5/10. Actually Jump is pretty neat... except...  first off, Lancer hoses your Magic stats, which is bad for Fighter Mages; second, Lancer isn't that fast, so speedy jumps are tricky to use.  Still, Lancers get to do things like snipe enemy mages from a distance which is cool and definitely useful.  Then they stop getting cool new Lances in Chapter 4 and suck compared to the shiny Knight Swords others have (unless you farm the special Deep Dungeon Whale Whisker, fine.).
Summoner: 8/10.  Most broken-while-still-being-accessible class in the game.  They don't have revival but that's about it.  Spamming Ramuh is great for whittling down hordes even late, it ignores evasion and friendlies, etc.
Mediator: 3/10.  Okay you can do Faith modification but you can do that by just carefully picking which recruits to use or hire at the beginning of the game, too.  Ramza handles the Brave Raising.  Invite Rush is a cheese way of winning some battles but will get you killed by Zodiac Braves.
Ninja: 7/10.  Two Hands Swords is literally the only thing that makes a physical strategy viable lategame.  Crazy speed too.  The durability is a weakness though when ninjas need to charge to the front of the lines since the throwing stars kinda suck.
Samurai: 6/10.  Expensive, but Draw Out is cool.  Blade Grasp.
Calculator: 6/10?  Uhhhh can't really deny that Math Skill breaks the game but you have to be in a statistically terrible class to learn all the cool variants and using Math Skill is really annoying.  Whee checking the board's CT all the time.
Bard: 3/10.  Dancer works better, there are generally more enemies to debuff than allies to buff.
Dancer: 5/10.  Mass Oracle hax!  Cheeses the Deep Dungeon completely, nothing like all the enemies showing up statused to all hell, or alternatively taking no turns thanks to Slow Dance.  Shame it's bad on maps which require fast action and with enemies starting right next door, which is a number of 'em.
Mime: 1/10.  No.

[Dark Holy Elf]

I dunno, I was always the type of person who once a new magic was available, would immediately draw 100 copies for everyone.

Funny how doing that makes the game too easy to care about character differences. <.< (I mean, it's already easy, but there's easy and then there's easy.) If you don't max out on drawing base stats do matter some, and they certainly mean way more than limits which generally all kill things just fine when you happen to get them.

Honestly I find it immensely silly how you can grind up to gamebreaking stats then try to focus on minor differences like limit damage... do I really care how badly I overkill things? At that point you can just kill bosses in 1-2 rounds of physicals and one-shot all randoms. Theoretical damage Zell deals becomes meaningless (except for uh Omega I guess but whatever, Holy Wars > that entire fight) if you have insane Str, and so on.

[Grefter]

Uh ignoring the really crazy breaking with card games and stuffs Limit spam becomes incredibly easy once you get Siren.  Refine restoration items skill she has turns tents into Curaga.  That is like nearly 4k HP there.  Limits and their differences are kind of huge at that point if you are going down that route.

There is pretty much 3 ways you can play through FF8 normally.  Play it like a normal FF where you utilise your crazy strong healing to almost never die, but also never see limits much, limit spam we are all familiar with or GF spam which is insanely boring BUT you are protected by progressively more and more giant HP shields on each character.  FF8 falls over and dies to any of these.  All you are getting out of this argument is which of the ways people played through the game.  I am just kind of suprised we have even hit this argument, limit spam is so prominent in FF8 discussions on the internets.

Also you are honestly really underrating how much damage you can squeeze out of Duel with LRL and DRL (uh don't know the PS1 controls) chains even without anything special junctioned into Str.  If you do regular Duel chains, yeah they are bad.  But you should be able to squeeze at least 10 attacks out of the shortest Duel chain time available, those add up to being Renzokuken level very easilly and blow the shit out of Angelo Strike in next to no time at all (it is ... 4x multiplier I think? Yeahhhhhhhh you get more than that out of Duel).  Edit - Oh yeah and there is more to how well Duel scales than just hueg Str stuff, plenty of the one hit limits will more easilly hit the damage cap with Vit 0 status from Meltdown or Mantrain, Duel just keeps on scaling its damage upwards.

[SnowFire]

No argument that FF8 difficulty level is borked.  Just...  not drawing or refining lots of spells seems the equivalent of not bothering to buy new equipment at shops in other games.  Just that to extend the analogy, FF8 difficulty is balanced toward an initial-equipment run for a lot of other RPGs.

For what it's worth, when I tried to replay FF8, I challenged myself not via intentionally stopping at 50 spells, but rather only using the first 3 GFs (okay and Siren for *only* Move-Find so you can see secret save points bleh whatever).  It didn't really help, but at least the characters had weaknesses in stats they didn't junction to silly levels!  (On the downside I also stayed low level.  MISTAKE, game dies to stiff breeze if you do that.)

[Dark Holy Elf]

FF8 ladies and gentlemen, if you powerlevel it gets harder. Obviously all my discussion on the game assumes you don't do this, powerlevelling to make the game harder + drawing/item shenanigans to make it easier is better replaced with neither for less effort and holy crap the game is still easy.

plenty of the one hit limits will more easilly hit the damage cap with Vit 0 status from Meltdown or Mantrain,

This is where I point out that aside from Ultimecia, FF8 bosses top out at something like 25-30k HP. If you are hitting the damage cap the game is being raped hardcore and I'm not going to sob that I'm only doing 10k damage instead of 15k. Even Ultimecia, well, her big scary attack is a death counter so overkill offence won't even help you there! Otherwise, it is FF8, it is a joke, this discussion is pointless and the fact that I am willingly continuing it speaks to the fact that I care too much about talking about RPGs on the internet.

[Dhyerwolf]

By the time you get to Ultimecia, I wasn't even about limits, I was about Triple Casting extremely painful spells that at that point you have high stock of and little reason not to consume anyways!

[Grefter]

Checking RPG Classics shrine (for what that is worth), everything from Mobile Type 8 can have up to 40k plus, but that is prolly way to over levelled.

But yeah you should be hitting that damage cap in disc 3 or so with a Firaga Str junction and Angelo Strike and its like with Vit 0.  (Again bulg multiplier single hit.  This isn't Blast Zone or Fated Circle stuff).  Only way I can see not having that there is if you aren't using Refines at all which the game gives you for free.

Not to say the game is even challenging at that point, but still.

Edit - Also yeah you are perfectly capable of doing the above, that falls into your play it like normal FF style.

Edit 2 - You also might be seeing a bit of correlation here between the people that liked limit spam, using Squall, Zell and Irvine with the people that liked Shadow Hearts combat system, there is a bit of overlap there.

[Dark Holy Elf]

By the time you get to Ultimecia, I wasn't even about limits, I was about Triple Casting extremely painful spells that at that point you have high stock of and little reason not to consume anyways!

Same here, for the record.

[Tide]

Final Fantasy 8:
Squall Leonhart: 7/10. This should probably be higher given how I play FF8. Auto Crits is a huge advantage for damage control since it also means it will never crit when you don't want to. And Carding things if you are fighting FF8 randoms for whatever reason is typically more valuable than the EXP you get anyways.
Quistis Trepe: 5.5/10. Her limits are good, but some of them require too many materials or are just too late to matter. Degenerator matters for like 1 boss and not much else other than killing high level randoms, so not getting the omghype there
Zell Dincht: 5/10. Good ST damage dealing potential. That's all he has.
Seifer Almasy: DNR
Selphie Tilmitt: 3/10. Eeeeeeeeeh. Full Cure is kinda useful early. Her limit is pretty useless late but is the only person with Perfect accuracy. So.
Laguna Loire: Vice President/10. Is the President of Esthar. Gets a -3 on the manliness scale and is demoted after the stint of putting the entire world at stake by allowing Ultimecia to succeed in her plans. Bonus points for playing Man with Machine Gun all day while he is in office.
Kiros Seagill: Token black guy/10. Is the token black guy in the game. Yes I know there are other cadets, but who cares about them
Ward Zabac: Silent Aid/10. Speaks in more elipises than Squall
Rinoa Heartilly: 6/10. I dislike her limits, but her natural stat edge makes up for it in some levels.
Irvine Kinneas: 4.5/10. He's the third damage dealer but is the weakest. His big advantage is that his limit can be MT and if something dies, he can always swap targets to hurt the other enemy. I never found the items to be that bad to stock (Fire Ammo comes from Fuel which is readily buyable and you get a ton of Demolition Ammo refining midgame) but he rarely has a point to be placed into the party since you always have Squall and Zell's better anyway.
Edea Kramer: DNR

Final Fantasy Tactics Generics:
Squire: 4/10. Move+1 and Gained JP Up are pretty cool. Rest of skillset ranges from meh to trashy.
Chemist: 8/10. Hey guize, its your best reviver + healer in certain ways. Low damage, but a) you have other party members for that and b) there's always the stone gun + faith twinking for spell guns
Knight: 3/10. I like how half the breaks do pretty much nothing. Strong early I guess, but armor class with no range is just ugh
Archer: 3/10. Ranged physicals! Needed to be stronger though. Charge is lulz.
Wizard: 8/10. Strong carrier class late and pretty strong early.
Priest: 6/10. Protect/Shell are nice. Holy is cool too as is healing with AoE. Not much else otherwise
Monk: 5/10. Decent, but vertical tolerance limits it. As does equip options of bleh.
Thief: 2/10. 1 point for Move+2, 0.5 point for stealing rare stuff on special characters, 0.5 point for Steal Heart. Garbage class otherwise.
Time Mage: 7/10. Haste/Slow are cool. As are Short Charge/Teleport. Demi spells can be okay for boss killing if you care.
Oracle: 6/10. Status is pretty damn powerful. But its sometimes too chance based, with the faith and zodiac and all. Life Drain/Sleep are noteworthy.
Geomancer: 7/10. A good carrier class overall. Default abilities are kinda lame, but not terrible beyond belief.
Lancer: 4/10. Range is pretty cool. Armor equips though, eh. And they have severe problems against faster characters.
Summoner: 8/10. Widespread AoE damage? Hell yeahs
Mediator: 2/10. Uh...Brave twinking is kinda lost thanks to cheer up. But it is one of the few sources for Faith twinking. Mimic Daravon is cool too I guess, although having it hit means your entire skillset is also dead.
Ninja: 7/10. ST Damage. Lots of it. Glass cannons though.
Samurai: 4/10. What Super said. Ew stats and class. Cool abilities.
Calculator: 5/10. Broken as FUCK if you reach out and get it. Getting there is kinda a pain though (ugh speed). Averages out I guess.
Bard: 1/10. Whoo Move+3?!
Dancer: 1/10. Whoo early nameless dance?!
Mime: 0/10. Whoo...uh...uh...stat grindan?!

[DjinnAndTonic]

Final Fantasy 8: Wow, FF8 discussion.
Squall Leonhart: 6 - Everyone's too generic for the differences to be all that pronounced to me.
Quistis Treppe: 5
Zell Dincht: 6
Seifer Almasy: 6
Selphie Tilmitt: 5
Laguna Loire: -
Kiros Seagill: -
Ward Zabac: -
Rinoa Heartilly: 4
Irvine Kinneas: 4
Edea Kramer: 3

[Clear Tranquil]

Final Fantasy 8:
Squall Leonhart: 7.5/10
Quistis Treppe: 6.5/10
Zell Dincht: 7.5/10
Seifer Almasy: 5.5/10
Selphie Tilmitt: 7/10
Laguna Loire: Abstain
Kiros Seagill: Abstain
Ward Zabac:  Abstain
Rinoa Heartilly: 7.5/10
Irvine Kinneas: 6.5/10
Edea Kramer: 3.5/10

Ehh ... works. Like FF7 and SHC I prefer to judge the characters outside the system here but I've tried to go with a balance between I have no junctions quick Invincible Moon Wishing Star The End hax broken noaw and what little worth a character might have within the system. Rinoa's stats are a definite advantage in an NJ game even if they only give her a slight edge otherwise, it's still something that she has. Harking back to that yeah it's not just her MAG that matters but STR and stats in general across the board irrc. I have to give Selphie some credit for one shotting bosses but not overyhype it since it's not reliable unless you use cheap tricks (PSX lid!)

[metroid composite]

Final Fantasy Tactics Generics:
Squire: 7.5/10. Gained JP Up is ridiculous, and really saves a class that would be otherwise probably in the 3/10 range even with Move+1 (and 0/10 without).
Chemist: 7/10. If you're really playing optimally (like Summon Wizard) you actually don't touch them that much.  90 JP Phoenix Down does outclass about 65% of skillsets, though.
Knight: 3/10. Decent early (I know people who swear by Knight Delita for SCCs that can't handle early fights).  Weapon Guard is good.  If my mathskiller is a generic, I'll sometimes use Excalibur CT5Holy, depending on speed requirements.
Archer: 3/10. Part of the Concentrate Ninja package; one of about three viable routes in optimal play.
Wizard: 9/10. MAU.  Crazy MA with the right equips.  Black Magic is excellent early, and still useable late.
Priest: 5/10. Mostly useful with Math Skill.
Monk: 3/10. I'd call early Delita Monk the best way for say, Calc SCCs to get through Chapter 1 (some would argue Knight or Summoner) but that's about the only place I've really found core Monk optimal.  That said, Martial Arts Ninja is enough to bring this up to 3.
Thief: 2.5/10. Is Move+2 Ninja enough to bring this up to 3?  Ehh...you know, I'm going to kneejerk a little lower--Move+1 Ninjas would still handle rescue fights and speed-necessary fights that give calcs trouble like the roof just fine, and Teleport Ninjas are arguably better than Move+2 Ninjas, despite the Throw bonus.  (And I'm not feeling that generous towards poaching today; needs to combine with Mediator, and it's a 33% chance of Uribo anyhow).
Time Mage: 7.5/10. Lots of good stuff like Teleport and Haste; even the record math skill speedrun uses MP-Switch to allow you to Holy self.  Countermagic Quick is really abusive.  Usually not the focus, but it's hard to think of good strategies that don't use them at all.
Oracle: 5.5/10. Above or below Priest...hmm...YYM >>> White; I've actually chosen it over Math Skill on a solo challenge (and chosen it over stuff like Summon and Item in non-zodiac fights).  Move MP Up > yeah, Priest has nothing here.  So do I give White credit for breaking MS more than it would be broken?  Nah; I'll be consistent in being relatively harsh on "I'm the weak half of this combo".
Geomancer: 2/10. Attack Up for Swordskillers.  And on rare occasions Ninjas.
Lancer: 1/10. Jump is cool to avoid spells.  They're just...a dead end; there's nothing that's worth the cost when playing optimally.  (Now, if Math Skill were more expensive...).
Summoner: 9/10. Wtf Shiva/Ramuh/Ifrit.  Wtf.
Mediator: 2/10. In keeping with my not feeling generous towards poaching today...yeah, what else do they have going for them?
Ninja: 6.5/10. They fill a niche left open by summoners/mathskillers, so there's at least three viable setups in an optimal party.  Certainly the weakest of the three.  But...is there an alternative?  Nothing else has speed.
Samurai: 2/10. On the one hand, they take about as long to get going as Math Skill, and are worse, and can't get going until later chapters because of what's not storebought.  On the other hand, they tend to come out in the endgame anyway; especially near level 99, they're just obviously the #2 alternative.  Umm...this feels like poaching, which you will use at endgame, but takes time to setup and can't do much until stuff unlocks in later chapters.  What did I give poaching?  Let's copy that score.
Calculator: 8/10.  The number of classes that said "takes as long to get as Calc, and worse, therefore not good."  ...yeah.
Bard: 1/10. Angel Song is cool on paper for like...Ramza, probably as he trains in Calc.
Dancer: 1/10. Nothing breaks Chapter 1 like Dancers; not even Mathskillers.  <3 Dancers .  I can't really claim that this is a useful niche, but it is a niche and it's hilarious, and that keeps them from 0.
Mime: 0/10.  I've written essays about how they suck much more than even previously suspected.  Level up-down use is a niche, to be fair, but not enough to keep them from 0 for me.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Final Fantasy 8: I so don't care.

Final Fantasy Tactics Generics:

Squire: 2/10. Gained JP Up is the only reason they exist to me.
Chemist: 8/10. Yeah, the skillset's key moves are just so key. Best healers generally - even by the time the healing just can't keep up unless you farm Elixirs (and why should you?), the game is nearing a game of rocket tag. Auto-Potion and Phoenix Down are just insanely good.
Knight: 2/10. CONCRETE DURABILITY THROUGH HP oh look lacking offense besides Ice Brand setups that are better used by the likes of Geomancer and Knight Swords that are better given to uniques and a useless skillset oh and HP alone doesn't make your concrete anyway. Also, 3 move and can't equip hats? Ew.
Archer: 2/10. Charge is lolz.
Wizard: 8/10. If you're bothering with Black Magic skillset besides L1/2 and Flare, you're doin' it wrong - those are perfectly capable of carrying Wizard throughout the game, and if that wasn't enough, they're the best mage carriers in the game period. Great class.
Priest: 6/10. I guess. Skillset is cool, but needed to be more... accessible in terms of potency. Holy is a great boss-killer at least and the revival has its merits besides being slow. I miss LFT Priests, though.
Monk: 4/10. I hate the move and utter lack of equipment options. Skillset is kinda versatile in a vacuum, but far more limited than it should be in the long term. Martial Arts can carry into some ST death setups, but those never impress me as much as what the best mage setups can do.
Thief: 2/10. Fucking Thieves.
Time Mage: 7/10. Quite good. Time Magic is a neat, versatile skillset that tides battles very strongly. Class itself kinda feels stuck in the middle of mage options, but is generally acceptable.
Oracle: 7/10. They... aren't amazing, I'll grant, but they're one of my favorite classes in the game that cover very capably a lot of battle-winning niches. Good equipment options, good pool of passives for their type and the skillset has the best Zodiac-busting tools -and- excellent grunt-busting tools. FFT is one of those games where the right status can be just as lethal as a OHKO and gives you reason to use it.
Geomancer: 6/10. I like them enough for a 6. Failure skillset besides Attack Up, but the carrier side is high-profile.
Lancer: 3/10. Eeeew limited class with poor carrier features.
Summoner: 9/10. Honestly tempted to give the skillset just -that- much credit. The class itself is kinda shoddy, but not without merit, and certainly isn't bad enough to drag down the sheer might of summons. ITE GT damage that can be boosted a million ways and some cool side options like GT healing and niche physical spoiling? Sold.
Mediator: 3/10. Uh Brave/Faith twinking and guns.
Ninja: 6/10. ST smash is very nice! The lack of versatility and durability honestly don't help, though. Ninja does what it does pretty well, but has very clear issues.
Samurai: 4/10. The skillset is great, but somewhat cumbersome and outmatched by stuff like Summon. The class is trash. Not really that good a combo.
Calculator: 7/10. Sure. Horrible, painful class, but the skillset just breaks the game so badly I feel I need to credit that. And I think there -are- worse classes to be in, at least Calcs have robes and hats.
Bard: 1/10. lulz move +3
Dancer: 1/10. Nameless Dance breaking the earlygame is kinda meaningless to me when you're not likely to -have- this class by then unless you beeline -madly- or grind. If you beeline madly, you're still giving up later game usefulness and if you grind, you're probably just breaking the game anyway.
Mime: 0/10. Simply amazing.

[SnowFire]

Random comments:
Interesting the Move +2 isn't getting much hype.  I can buy it for say Ramza and the uniques who have non-fail base classes and thus why not pick up Move+1 while you're there.  I can also buy it for mages who either grab Teleport from Time Mage or else get Move+1 off spillover while people are Squires, and further nobody spends any time in Archer so they never get access to Thief.  However, for any physical beatdown character, Move+2 always struck me as pretty darn necessary (especially if you're fiddling with classes with lowish base Moves like Knight or Monk).  Retreat fast, and also sneak in fast, and when you do attack you can maneuver to avoid a shield.  Move+2 doesn't cost that much more than Move+1, either, only ~500 or so JP IIRC - quite easy to get if you're knocking Thief up to lvl. 4 (which you probably want to do anyway to unlock Ninja).

Which is not to say that Move+2 is THAT awesome, since as noted that's a fair number of cases it doesn't come up in, but the 2s and 3s seem a bit harsh when Move+2 is far from useless.

mc: "even the record math skill speedrun uses MP-Switch to allow you to Holy self. "

Er...  clarification?  What's a math skill speedrun?  In a normal speedrun I doubt characters have time to unlock Calculator and grab MP-Switch until laaaaaaate Chapter 4, I'd imagine, and I have no idea what a "math skill speedrun" is if that means something.  (Make everyone a Calculator in the Mandalia Plains, then start clock?!).

[Dark Holy Elf]

Actually, Math Skill is so uber that it is totally worth unlocking in a speedrun, since it literally wins battles in a single action. It's probably gotten via some quick mid-story-battle grinding using Yell in C1, though I'd have to watch the videos to check. Looks like the current speedrun record often uses Flare in place of Holy due to the faster animation time, so MP Switch is a viable way to survive that. (A mantle would be too, but presumably the loss of power will lead to missing some OHKOs, not to mention it means more resetting.)

As for Move+2... well, look at the competition. Quite apart from the classes with good skillsets or places I actually want to spend time (both of which I rate as more important than RSM), Thief faces some stiff compeition from classes which are mediocre but have a good RSM ability or two. I'd say Thief is losing to Squire (Gained JP Up and Move+1), Archer (Concentrate), and possibly even Knight (all the Equip X abilities are okay, as is Weapon Guard) although my kneejerk is not in the latter's case. Of course, Knight actually has periods where it's a decent carrier (earlygame PA/HP/swords before bad armour options set in, lategame knight swords for certain generic setups), which Thief really doesn't.

(RSM = reaction/support/movement, for those not familiar with that piece of FFT lingo.)

[Tide]

Just seconding the fact that Math Skill is pretty much a lock in a speedrun. You run one character (guess who!), throw on Math Skill along with ways that you cannot kill yourself with. The part which I don't know (and it sounds like NEB doesn't either) is the best way to get the Calc class unlocked, along with CT and 5 learnt. Afterwards, spend some time in Time Mage for a small period to re-pick up MP Switch if initially not possible. And MP switch certainly did not take a long time (400 JP?) given how your main offense is likely going to be Flare/Bolt 2 anyway. There really is no other method that is effective. Since afterwards, you can pretty much set up a purely speed/MA oriented Ramza, go first and smack people with something that can't kill you, which works wonders for random grunt maps. Zodiacs may be a slightly different story, but I imagine may just run Holy/Demi 2 (if necessary) but I'm theorizing. I'm not interested in watching the run sadly since most of it IS just Math Skill abuse, otherwise you probably would've heard me talk about it at some point.

The other thing with Move+2: as you put it yourself, it's more for a physical tree character who is basically running straight down that tree. This is of course ignoring spillover JP, but considering how much more viable (and twinkable) magic tree characters are for a large portion of the game, it's certainly not strange to find low hype for it. Not to mention if you want to buy Move+2 ASAP, you're running around with skill less thieves, which means no Steal Heart in a complete garbage class and crap for damage. For me, Move+2 is pretty much one of the few redeeming features of that class and is the only reason they even get a 2 >_>

[KelogBites]

Final Fantasy Twilight (8) can burn in an eternal fire.

Final Fantasy Tactics Generics:
Squire:2/10 A few useful abilities, not much else, horrible stat-growth that penalizes you for staying in the class. Squires suck.
Chemist: 9/10 Tied for best generic class in my opinion. Phoenix Down and Auto-Potion alone get it 7/10, together with a great movement ability..yeaaah. Guns add another point for being awesome, elemental guns with high faith could possibly squeeze it to a full 10, but high faith has it's drawbacks so yeah.
Knight: 3/10 They are good in uh...chapter..1? Still better then Squires.
Archer: 3/10 Long-range available early on that isn't constricted by mana is decent. They suck horribly though, but better then Squires.
Wizard: 7/10 Amazing carrier class with very good early game usage. Loses points for sucking later on in it's skill sets.
Priest: 4/10 Point for Holy, Point for Protect, Point for Regen, another Point for Holy. Chemists exist and are this classes pre-req.
Monk: 8/10 I love monks. Mostly for their absolutely amazing flexibility. Offense, Healing, Status Removal, and range in a single class that has access to clothes AND gives the awesomesauce Martial Arts. It's awesome. Also pretty early-game. Loses out to Ninja/Chemist however for lacking hats and for being not that great at damage later on in the game. Still, one of the easiest SSCCs to boot.
Thief: 5/10 Skill set sucks horrendously. But. Steal in this game is goddamn amazing. Also, they have in-game best Speed growth. And seeing as Speed>All for FFT, they have their (masochistic) uses for growth. Also Move+2 is fantastic.
Time Mage: 8/10 Teleport. Meteor. Haste. Demi. That is all.
Oracle: 8/10 Statuses are pretty amazing. Access to a 2-range physical based off a stat they have in abundance (and have decent growth with) is just icing on the cake.
Geomancer: 6/10 Great carrier with a decent back-up skillset, nothing amazing though.
Lancer: 5/10 Slightly skewed opinion since I did a SSCC with this class and I shall explain my reasoning. The ability to avoid Summons to ad nausem with some CT manipulation is amazing, it's really friggin amazing. Jumps and the physical attacks do great damage, and if you can count properly your jumps will never miss, considering they can hit 8 (pretty far for a physical that can't be evaded by anything sans Blade Grasp) spaces away with proper building is amazing. However. The class can't score higher then a 5 for me, because it suffers from the same issues Samurai/Knight suffer. The inability to use clothes. Clothes are by and far the best equipment you can get. The other deduction Lancer gets is for taking an annoyingly long-time to build-up for a Physical class.
Summoner: 6/10 The class sucks. But the skill set rocks.
Mediator: 7/10 Yes, Mediators rank higher then Summoners and Geomancers. Talk Skill is a flexible skill set that allows everything from Sleep, Stop, and lolhax CT deprivation. To turning an enemy into a chicken, a strong magic user into a flea, and yourself into a 97/3 powerhouse. They also gain guns, and their skill set is relatively cheap. Finger Guard sucks harder then Rafa/Malak/Algus combined however.
Ninja: 9/10 This really needs no explanation. Throw (Axe) is friggin strong. Martial Arts Ninja is broken beyond belief. They have great PA growth, and 2nd(?) best speed growth. They dual-wield. And have access to Clothes. Their only drawback is HP, which at the point where you are double-turning everything really doesn't matter. They also have amazing evasion, especially when coupled with Feather Mantle and Abandon. Oh and early-game when they can be 2-shot? Friggin Sunken State. The only reason Ninjas aren't 10/10 is because they lack Sword Skills. Yes it's a ridiculous reason, but this is a ridiculous class.
Samurai: 5/10 Suffers from Only-Armoritosis. Very versatile skill set however, and pretty good growths combined with durability. A decent alternative to a Wizard for a Summon carrier. However, the general pita of unlocking the class is accounted for. Still, Kiyomori+Masamune from two people on the first turn=Yeaaaaaah...
Calculator: 1/10 I'm disregarding the skill set, because honestly, just no. We all know Holy+Math Skill+Excalibur makes the game winnable by 1 person alone. In fact, I remember playing a Solo Ramza game with no class limitation. I had a Ramza with all the needed reaction abilities, Ninja, Move+2, and Math Skill with all the possible variables (Along with Holy and all the lvl.3 elementals, and most of Ying-Yang) by Goug. Without doing any randoms. In about..6 hours playtime. The rest of the game took 2 hours. Without the Skill set, Calculators suck horrendously. They are by-and-far the WORST class in the game. Horrible Speed, horrible PA, horrible MA, worst growths. Just..gah! I'd give them a 0 if it wasn't for Damage Split.
Bard: 4/10. Nameless Song gets this class a pass. Along with a weird period where they are pretty good (Bloody Strings). Point for Move+3.
Dancer: 5/10 Better then Bard, Nameless Dance+Mime can do some awesome shit on enemies. Wiznaibus is actually pretty good early-game, even if early-game Dancers is pretty arbitrary.
Mime: 7/10 I like Mimes. They make Dance and Sing a lot better, and they can make Math Skill even more broken. Along with the game-best general growths make the class a decent choice for me when I'm trying to maximize my gain per level. The fact people have pulled this class to Queklain in an SSCC speaks a lot about it's power. Seriously, it's a skill-less monk with no equipment..and it beat Gaffgarion. Let that sink in.

[Meeplelard]

...yeah, I've been lazy, but I didn't do my ratings yet; I'll get an update sometime this weekend, I swear!

Final Fantasy 8:
Squall Leonhart: 6.5/10.  Best Character due to the Auto Crits and 255% Hit Rate, which has an added bonus of meaning Blind is a POSITIVE status, since it makes his already strong limits better.
Quistis Treppe: 5/10.  Degenerator is cool, but that's about the only remotely interesting thing she gets.
Zell Dincht: 6/10.  Easily Spammable High Damage limits.
Seifer Almasy: DNR.  Exists for Dollet missions only so you can grind on enemies on the Mountain, to get an optimal SeeD rating WITHOUT worrying about being overleveled with Squall/Zell, really.
Selphie Tilmitt: 4.5/10.  Healing Limit! But if I'm using Limits, I kind of do not want to be healed, and her damage limits are garbage, and stuff like The End! doesn't kick in enough.
Laguna Loire: DNR. His sections are generally laughable for enemies, barring one Ruby Dragon.  Sadly, the music cannot be factored in here.
Kiros Seagill: DNR.  See Laguna.
Ward Zabac: DNR. See Kiros.
Rinoa Heartilly: 6/10.  The Angelo factor is a nice little gimmick that no one really parallels, and she does have hte only notable stat differences in the entire game (Why does the "I have no fighting experience!" character have +20 strength over all these Elite Mercenaries anyway!?  I mean, Magic I can get cause of the eventual Sorceress thing, but STrength just makes NO SENSE, especially considering she uses a freaking Pinwheel.)
Irvine Kinneas: 5/10.  Zell-.
Edea Kramer: DNR.  Just exists as filler for when Rinoa is out of the party, which isn't long enough gameplay wise to really rate.

Final Fantasy Tactics Generics:
Squire: 6/10.  Move+1 and Gained JP Up on a starting Job?  Yay!  Accumulate is cool for free EXP/JP too.
Chemist: 8/10.  Guns, Auto Potion, and Item in general is a good skillset, and the fact that the class has innate Throw Item adds to the general use too.  ALSO FREE SUPPORT ABILITY!!1!!1!
Knight: 4/10.  Weapon Guard is cool for an early game reaction, and Breaks have some uses on ranged classes, but not quite enough.
Archer:4/10.  Would be better if Guns didn't exist, really.
Wizard: 6.5/10.  Gamebest MA has to count for something.
Priest: 6.5/10.  Decent overall.
Monk: 4/10.  Versatile Skillset, but never quite got the UBER hype or anything.
Thief: 1.5/10.  Steal has some...vague...use...and Move+2 is good!  But yeah, they suck.
Time Mage: 7/10.  Good spells, MP Switch for that combo, and Teleport. 
Oracle: 7.5/10.  Typical Mage, but with an actual physical, and I felt that status is more useful in FFT than most games, mostly cause you can actually see if its going to work and a majority of enemies are in fact vulnerable.  Oh yeah, ahs half of the "Move MP Up + MP Switch" combo.
Geomancer: 7/10.  Well balanced job on all fronts.  Shields, can go a physical or magical route, what have you; only flaw is Elemental is kind of mrf.
Lancer: 3/10.  Never really felt much use for them; Jump's cool in theory, but honestly feels like there are better options.
Summoner: 8/10.  So we take wizard, lower the MA a bit, but give them big powerful scary spells that make Black Magic obsolete, *AND* top it off with stuff like Healing and Golem?  SIGN ME UP!
Mediator: 5/10.  Guns and some gimmick moves are cool, but nothing special.
Ninja: 7/10.  If you're using a physical generic, you definitely are going to need at least SOME TIME with one of these guys.  High speed, dual wield, good physical stats to support it, and Throw's a passable compliment as a ranged attack.
Samurai: 5/10.  Garbage Job with a few good abilities for OTHER Jobs to use, so its existence is justified.
Calculator: 5/10.  Really damned good, but it takes a good deal of effort to get an effective one, and the job itself is iffy, so its more the skillset.  Yeah, we'll just say that all balances out.
Bard: 2/10.  Sing has cool stuff, and Move+3 is neat.  The problem...they're not cool enough to justify the effort needed for this job, and getting that far means you probably have better stuff at least for the command ability.
Dancer: 2/10.  Bard with better command set, but no Move+3.  Also, no Harps, for all that I didn't mention them.
Mime: 0.5/10.  AHAHHAHAHAHAHHA no.  Mimes just suck completely, I gave them half a point purely cause of the amusement value of a "Choir" based set up involving 3 Mimes, a Dancer and a Bard, which was hilarious to watch and surprisingly effective (for all that I only saw it on a random encounter.)

[MalcolmMasher]

Final Fantasy 8:
Squall Leonhart: 7.0/10 Gunblade crits.
Quistis Trepe [Spelling corrected]: 4.0/10 Weak reliable limit.
Zell Dincht: 6.0/10 Multi-hit limit, which can apparently be arbitrarily powerful with sufficient practice.
Seifer Almasy: DNR
Selphie Tilmitt: 3.5/10 Weak unreliable limit.
Laguna Loire: DNR
Kiros Seagill: DNR
Ward Zabac: DNR
Rinoa Heartilly: 5.0/10 Unreliable limits with potential.
Irvine Kinneas: 5.0/10 Multi-hit limit with ammo dependency.
Edea Kramer: DNR

Final Fantasy Tactics Generics:
Squire: 3.5/10 Gained JP Up. See also Move+1, Throw Stone. (Yep, I've set Basic Skill for Throw Stone before. It earns JP!)
Chemist: 7.0/10 Reliable revival, Auto Potion, gets guns. It's a lousy class to level up in, but thankfully FFT stat growth isn't important.
Knight: 2.5/10 Bad mobility, lousy options, no range.
Archer: 3.0/10 Bad mobility, lousy options, range. And worse damage/durability than Knight, but at least Archers get to contribute.
Wizard: 7.5/10 The strongest magical carrier. Magic Attack Up.
Priest: 6.0/10 The fastest magical carrier. Some buffs, an alternative to Item for healing, and Holy.
Monk: 5.0/10 Monk is decent, just not impressive by FFT standards. I'd say the same about Punch Art secondary.
Thief: 3.5/10 Move+2 is good, Steal gets you some nice stuff, now if only the class weren't terrible. And a point for Secret Hunt I guess.
Time Mage: 8.0/10 Haste, Don't Move, Short Charge, Teleport, and some fancy tricks/combos to boot.
Oracle: 7.0/10 Magical carrier with a reach physical and Pray Faith. Defense Up, too.
Geomancer: 7.5/10. All-purpose carrier with 4 move and a shield. Attack Up and Counter Flood, also. (Why yes, I'd like to counterattack Archers with 25% Stop/Petrify.)
Lancer: 3.0/10 Knight with no Ch1 use, but (JP-intensive) ranged damage.
Summoner: 7.5/10 Basic summons are already great, and then they get sometimes-useful upper level summons as well as healing, Golem, etc.
Mediator: 4.0/10 Solution, Mimic Daravon, [Spell] Guns & Robeses. Invite is a 100 JP alternative to Steal [X] against generics. And a half point for monsters I guess.
Ninja: 7.5/10 A pain to unlock, but they're the best physical powerhouse. Ninja speed/mobility mean they're even useful carriers for MA-based skillsets at times.
Samurai: 4.0/10 As hard to unlock as Ninja, but without the stats, equipment, or inherent support. Draw Out and Blade Grasp are good, though.
Calculator: 9.0/10 Since propositions exist, their terrible stats are not an effective handicap on the skillset.
Bard: 1.5/10 Move+3 doesn't require Sing to be set.
Dancer: 2.0/10 Nameless Dance doesn't require 1200 JP in Bard.
Mime: 1.0/10 Mimes have too many interesting gimmicks for me to hand 'em a zero.

[Meeplelard]

Just noting that no, the topic is NOT dead.  Just with Minimeet, and boards temporarily dying, and work + School being pricks, I've been held up a bit.  I'll update soon enough though.

[Meeplelard]

Final Fantasy 8:
Squall Leonhart: 7.14
Quistis Treppe: 5.12
Zell Dincht: 6.01
Seifer Almasy: N/A
Selphie Tilmitt: 4.25
Laguna Loire: N/A
Kiros Seagill: N/A
Ward Zabac: N/A
Rinoa Heartilly: 5.31
Irvine Kinneas: 4.28
Edea Kramer: N/A

Final Fantasy Tactics Generics:
Squire: 3.65
Chemist: 7.80
Knight: 2.76
Archer: 2.95
Wizard: 7.48
Priest: 5.8
Monk: 5.24
Thief: 2.62
Time Mage: 6.55
Oracle: 6.78
Geomancer: 5.82
Lancer: 4.03
Summoner: 7.99
Mediator: 3.43
Ninja: 7.41
Samurai: 4.19
Calculator: 5.78
Bard: 1.77
Dancer: 2.33
Mime: 1.28

NOTE: Seifer had a tiebreak vote in chat, hence why he was DNRed, so if you count them up, that's how I made the decision.

Best Rating of this Session: Summoner w/ 7.99
Worst Rating of this Session: Mime w/ 1.28
Seifer, Laguna, Kiros, Ward, and Edea all get no ratings, and thus shall be...forgotten?

Top 20 Ratings:
1. Yuna (FFX) 9.80
2. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SH1) 9.53
3. Hyuga "Citan Uzuki" Ricdeau (XG) 9.46
4. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHC) 9.25
5. Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde (WA1) 9.20
6. Haar (FE10) 9.17
7t. Deis (BoF2) 9.11
7t. Reyson (FE10) 9.11
9. Lenneth Valkyrie (VP(:L)) 9.02
10. Ephraim (FE8) 9.01
11. Elincia (FE10) 8.85
12. Tibarn (FE10) 8.83
13. Rena Lanford (SO2) 8.75
14. Tana (FE8) 8.73
15. Purim (SoM) 8.70
16. Maria Traydor (SO3) 8.68
17. Cidolfas Orlandu (FFT) 8.66
18t. Claude Kenni (SO2) 8.63
18t. Nailah (FE10) 8.63
20. Ike (FE10) 8.58

Top 20 Failures:
1. Karla (FE7) 0.77
2. Chu-chu (XG) 0.85
3. Maria Balthasar (XG) 1.00
4. Malak Golthana (FFT) 1.03
5. Byblos (FFT) 1.06
6. Douglas (FE6) 1.10
7. Astrid (FE10) 1.20
8t. Mime (FFT) 1.28
8t. Lyre (FE10) 1.28
10. Yunno (FE6) 1.35
11. Garret (FE6) 1.36
12. Mogu (BoF) 1.50
13. Noel Chandler (SO2) 1.55
14. Klein (FE6) 1.64
15t. Fiona (FE10) 1.75
15t. Merlinus (FE6) 1.75
17. Sophia (FE6) 1.78
18t. Isadora (FE7) 1.73
18t. Rafa Galthana (FFT) 1.73
20. Bard (FFT) 1.77


I think we'll just finish off the other "boring" FF game for ratings...as well as FFT this time around!  I was gonna do something else, but people started boycotting this topic, so AWAY WE GO!

Final Fantasy 7:
Cloud Strife:
Barret Wallace:
Tifa Lockheart:
Aeris Gainsborough:
Nanaki "Red XIII":
Yuffie Kisaragi:
Cait Sith:
Vincent Valentine:
Cid Highwind:

Final Fantasy Tactics Monsters:
Behemoth:
Bird:
Bomb:
Bull Demon:
Cat:
Chocobo:
Dragon:
Floating Eye:
Ghost:
Goblin:
Hydra:
Marlboro:
Skeleton:
Squid:
Tree:
Uribo:

Yeah, for sanity reasons, and due to the breeding nature, we're doing it off Species-sets.  Just makes things easier than having to decide exactly how good everything is, and cuts the # of ratings down to 1/3rd.  We did it that way in the previous topic too!

[Cmdr_King]

Final Fantasy 7:  Due to 'too many replays', I'm kinda particular about how I play FFVII and tend to favor Materia growth way more than is probably objectively justifiable.
Cloud Strife: 7/10.
Barret Wallace: 4/10.
Tifa Lockheart: 5/10.
Aeris Gainsborough: 6/10.
Nanaki "Red XIII": 5/10.
Yuffie Kisaragi: 6/10.
Cait Sith: 4/10.  I suck so bad at Slots.
Vincent Valentine: 3/10.
Cid Highwind: 6/10.

Not confident enough in my monster knowledge to rate those.