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Author Topic: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!  (Read 141814 times)

DjinnAndTonic

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #875 on: October 06, 2013, 08:40:10 AM »
For all that I'm not giving Edward any credit for it, that glitch run that turns Edward into something badass just sounds awesome. :)

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #876 on: October 06, 2013, 08:19:14 PM »
why do you guys love edward

you did play the after years right where he spent his entire life wanking over his 17-years-dead girlfriend
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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #877 on: October 06, 2013, 09:33:21 PM »
why do you guys love edward

you did play the after years right where he spent his entire life wanking over his 17-years-dead girlfriend

Be fair. He was crying while he was jerking it.
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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #878 on: October 06, 2013, 10:26:45 PM »
Ahhh, sorry. Didn't realize/absorb that the knife thing was also a glitch being utilized amidst general glitchiness in the glitch based speed run!~

I haven't played the After Years :) Just a FF4 casual I think~

« Last Edit: October 06, 2013, 10:45:11 PM by Clear Tranquil »
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DjinnAndTonic

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #879 on: October 07, 2013, 03:04:32 AM »
I don't actually like Edward as a character. I just kinda like the idea of breaking things with the iconically "worst PC ever". I kinda like Chuchu for similar reasons. They're just so... Pitiful it's endearing.

Meeplelard

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #880 on: October 07, 2013, 04:54:24 AM »
Just gonna chime in on charge times but...

First off, Charge times do take Intellect into account so that could play a role in this regard.  More importantly, though?

Generally speaking, a spell needs at level 3 charge time to be recognizable, and even then it's not really a huge charge time.  The spell will resolve fast enough. 

Rydia's Bio, don't forget, is a 0 Charge time, and that's her best spell overall for a while.  Good cost efficient power and comes off fast, and non-Elemental, so it's safe.  For MT, Mist Dragon is good if you can keep Rydia's HP up; a touch slow, but MT damage equal to Rydia's HP (...with random variance) is probably better than Bio on MT, and non-elemental as well.  The 3 Elementals are likely useful compared to Aras in the same vain (technically stronger on ST,  but the speed and cost makes them not-worth it).

Titan...is kind of questionable.  It's slow, it's pricey, and shouldn't really be saved as kind of a trump card.  It gets the job done, but people who use this is as Rydia's BnB form of offense before she gets Agas, Quake, etc. WILL have MP issues with her most likely.  It's knowing to rely more on Bio and Mist Dragon as her primary offense (with Elemental Summons/Aras for weakness hitting) mid-game.

The only charge times that are really notable are things with a 5 or higher, which you'll note is a very few number of spells.  I guess it's more notable if you aren't maximizing Rydia's Wisdom (which also leads to her damage being not good enough for a pure glass cannon to some), but that doesn't change the fact that she has set ups that say otherwise.


Also, Rosa's damage edge on Rydia w/ physicals is not that notable, at least to the point of "she can have MP-less damage set ups unlike Rydia!"  Yes, Aim is an edge, but Rydia can use all the same stuff and generally hits consistent enough for it to matter.
ANd no, Rosa's Arrow damage isn't really that good unless she's hitting a weakness, and even then, Cecil makes a better Bow user if you really want to use that argument (Attack Mults and actual strength > Aim)
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[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

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Reiska

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #881 on: October 07, 2013, 05:32:45 AM »
Also, Rosa's damage edge on Rydia w/ physicals is not that notable, at least to the point of "she can have MP-less damage set ups unlike Rydia!"  Yes, Aim is an edge, but Rydia can use all the same stuff and generally hits consistent enough for it to matter.
ANd no, Rosa's Arrow damage isn't really that good unless she's hitting a weakness, and even then, Cecil makes a better Bow user if you really want to use that argument (Attack Mults and actual strength > Aim)

I think the main salient point here is that Rosa's overall utility is hurt less by equipping all the physical boosting stuff on her, she still heals *enough* even with a full physical boosting build as long as you avoid the Minerva Bustier (even with MB, Curaja probably is sufficient).  I've managed to get Rosa's attack mult competitive with Cecil's before with eccentric gear setups.

Meeplelard

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #882 on: October 11, 2013, 03:30:30 AM »
Just a heads up that due to Comic-con, the update might be delayed a day or two.  So expect an update on Sunday or Monday!
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

Meeplelard

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #883 on: October 12, 2013, 02:24:49 AM »
Final Fantasy 4 (Advance):
Cecil: 8.5/10.  He gets progressively worse as the game goes on to some degree...but it's more a technical thing because Dark Knight is overpowered, and he's at his worst still a strong, reliable tank with some battery healing.
Kain: 4/10.  Cecil without Cover, or his unique swords...or battery healing.  He's not worthless, but he definitely doesn't feel very good either.
Rydia: 8.5/10.  Blows up second half of the game well, we've covered her well.
Tellah: 6/10.  He completely wrecks his first dungeon, kind of lackluster outside of extra MP for healing on Ordeals, then becomes your only healer for a stretch of the game.  Limited MP hurts, but he can use Osmose on Cecil if need be.
Edward-C: 2/10. I think people are a tad harsh on him; he still status' enemies when he's in the game.  THat said, he still has bad stats, crappy damage (he can use Bows to mitigate this I guess but his damage is never enough to care, so the status you get is better), and Auto Hide is the dumbest ability ever.
Rosa: 7/10.  Rosa has this problem that, like in FF5, healing is lackluster in-battle until Curaga.  She has a few status moves and works as a battery healer, but she's not as useful as you'd think your primary healer would be until she gets Curaga.  That said, she still is kind of necessary at times, but not as effective at her role as Cecil and Rydia are at theirs.
Yang-C: 5/10.  He can hit a few weaknesses here and there, and has status claws but yeah.
Palom-C: 6/10.  Wrecks Ordeals, does good in Baron Underground, sucks against the bosses...yeah, I'll give him above average for the time he's in your party.
Porom-C: 3/10.  See that rant about Rosa?  Yeah, Porom has that issue but never exists long enough to actually make up for, combined with being made of paper.  Palom can at least kill things fast, Porom is a case of "your healer is one of your first to die."
Cid-C: 4/10.  He's a warm body that can take hits well, and Gaia Hammer is nice for the small stretch of the game he has it.
Edge: 5/10.  He can pull clean up work after Rydia if need be, and a number of gimmick physical set ups.  He's just very hit or miss at times, enough that I think average works.
FuSoYa: 6/10.  Tellah in a late-game dungeon...with appropriate scaling...so yeah, same score.  To be fair, Rydia and Rosa steal some of his fire, but he's likely to know things they won't, so he's still arguably better.

Edward-A: 4/10.  Ok, he's good on specific enemies, kind of crappy on other enemies, and worthless on Zeromus.  He is really good as an item boy because of the speed though!
Yang-A: 7/10.  What happens when Yang gets a nice fat upgrade to a number of stats, especially speed, and gets a bonus factor of owning Behemoths for Free with Build Up.  Also his species claws are useful!
Palom-A: 6/10.  In the end, he's still a lesser Rydia, but having a 2nd cannon isn't necessarily a bad thing, outside of Zeromus.
Porom-A: 6/10.  Comparable to Rosa; she's got better speed and insured to resist all 3 elements, freeing up a Protect Ring, but the significantly lower HP hurts.
Cid-A: 4/10.  He's comparable to Kain.  Slower, but way more HP and an actual attack stat, and takes hits better.  Also he can murder machines well.  Given I gave Kain a 4/10, I feel Cid should at least get the same score, though you could argue FF4a Kain loses a point specifically because he has competition for that 5th slot now.

Final Fantasy 4: The After Years:

Ceodore: 8/10.  Good equipment, and stats that aren't HP (which is mostly "low for a tank") on top of being a 2ndary White Magic user, most notably gets Blink and Haste which are extremely valuable, as well as a few other handy spells.
Biggs: DNR.  Yeah, probably shouldn't have put them here.
Wedge: DNR.  See above.
Cecil-T: 3/10.  He's awful when he first joins, and by the time he's not awful, you've already gone through 80% of the game, and he'll be underleveled.  Let's assume he does catch up however...why would you use him? He's slower than Ceodore and Kain, in a game where Speed is harder to boost than Strength no less, and Cover < Blink (let alone Haste) which both PCs learn.  Add insult to injury, he's got a worse weapon set, not being able to use Lances, thus restricting your character usage (again, something Kain and Ceodore don't do.)
Rosa-T: 7.5/10.  Pretty much her FF4 Self, only in a game that calls on her skillset notably more.
Cid-T: 2/10.  Ok, he just sucks in this game.
Kain-T: 8/10.  Stupid game and your Kain fanboyism!  Anyway, variation of Ceodore, has higher HP, but misses a few White Magic spells (like Cuaraga), though still gets important ones.  Jump is also there, but not convinced its useful, and Ceodore I think gets more Bands anyway, for all that many don't use them.

Rydia-T: 7.5/10.  Her FF4 self but lacks summons for a large part of the game holding her back some.  She can item cast healing rods at least and be a makeshift unlimited healer for earlier sections, which hurts the use of another character more so than help her own.
Luca: 4/10.  Also bad, but unlike Cid, she's at least invaluable as a tank during Rydia's scenario, and Big Throw does let her get around Moon Phases.
Calca: 1.5/10.  Well, he can do stupid good things SOMETIMES, other times he just sucks it up.  On top of that, bad stats across the board unless you get some stupid good gear.
Brina: 2/10.  Sometimes she'll heal your team, most of the time, she's Calca but defensive.  Given Rydia's section has a Black Mage but not a white mage, I'll give her the extra half a point!
Yang-T: 7/10.  Solid physical fighter.
Ursula: 7/10. Variation of her father, hard to say whose better.  She's faster, he's more durable and hits harder, but she has female specifics which while not better than universal gear, do allow for more flexible equips (dropping down to Minerva is a less hit to Ursula than whatever Yang would drop down too.)

Palom-T: 7/10.  Lesser Rydia, but still solid at his role.
Leonora: 2/10.  Ok, she has healing, that's cool and all, and basic black magic!  Oh look, there's 2 OTHER WHITE MAGES who are better than her at that role, and the offensive thing loses all purpose since Holy exists on both of them, which they learn before she gets any worthwhile Black Magic.  She's not even that good in Palom's story seeing as Palom's generally just nuking everything.
Porom-T: 7/10.  White Mage Porom, so pretty much same applies.
Edward-T: 5/10.  Makes a good healer with some set ups, but he lacks all the perks White Mages have, so he has a lot of competition for slots.
Harley: 0.5/10.  Has no redeeming qualities whatsoever.  I'd give her a 0/10, but at least she can throw items, and sort of does stuff during Edward's section, but good god what were they thinking with this character?  It's like the FF3 Scholar without forcing the Hyne fight to make them pretend they're useful.

Edge-T: 7.5/10.  Red Mage-like character, oddly enough, and pretty darn good at that.
Gekkou: 5/10.  He's got durability, and I think Shuriken is good for bosses.  It's not a lot, but I can see making some use of him.
Izayoi: 3/10.  Meanwhile, she's just worse than Edge in everyway that matters, and by a significant amount.
Tsukinowa:  4/10.  The one thing he has going for him is that MT Physical Band with Edge that was good for groups in Edge's story, that's about all he's good for.
Zangetsu: 3/10.  Oh look, Ninja FF4 Kain!!!  ...yeah no.
Golbez: 8.5/10.  Overall MVP I'd say.  He carries your team entirely through most of the final parts, and in the final dungeon, he's STILL got good damage because Black Magic, has a good physical so he can conserve MP if need be, and shows no real signs of lacking durability.  He even has an amazing equipment draw, allowing both flexibility in your team, and letting him adapt to certain boss fights (Hi Omega, I hope you like a Thor's Hammer TO THE FACE!)
FuSoYa-T: 6/10.  Worked for his role during Golbez's chapter, which is all you really need from him.
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

Meeplelard

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #884 on: October 15, 2013, 04:29:36 AM »

Final Fantasy 4 (Advance):

           AVG STDDEV
Cecil:   7.78   0.75
Kain   4.44   0.95
Rydia   7.89   0.42
Tellah   5.22   1.09
Edward-C   1.44   0.85
Rosa   7.22   0.36
Yang-C   4.44   0.85
Palom-C   4.33   1.3
Porom-C   3.33   1.17
Cid-C   3.39   1.02
Edge   4.56   1.13
FuSoYa   5.44   1.13

Edward-A   3.50   1.32
Yang-A   6.30   1.57
Palom-A   6.10   0.55
Porom-A   5.20   1.82
Cid-A   2.50   1.41

Standard Deviation (Full Cast): 1.80
Standard Deviation (Classic only): 1.92
Standard Deviation (Advance Only): 1.65

If it's not clear, yes, Cecil, Rydia, etc. are counted for all Standard Deviations.  IOWs, the only difference between Classic vs. Advance is one uses Edward-C and the other uses Edward-A.  Full Cast includes everyone, even if it means Edward twice.

Final Fantasy 4: The After Years:

           AVG STDDEV
Ceodore:   7.43   0.73
Biggs: N/A
Wedge: N/A
Cecil-T:   3.43   0.79
Rosa-T:   7.07   0.79
Cid-T:   1.93   0.61
Kain-T:   7.57   0.73

Rydia-T:   7.64   0.75
Luca:   4.36   0.63
Calca:   1.57   1.24
Brina:   1.71   1.58
Yang-T:   7.29   0.49
Ursula:   7.64   0.56

Palom-T:   6.79   0.4
Leonora:   3.21   0.76
Porom-T:   6.92   0.66
Edward-T:   5.86   0.69
Harley:   1.00   0.76

Edge-T:   7.93   0.19
Gekkou:   4.14   1.21
Izayoi:   2.36   0.94
Tsukinowa:   2.71   1.07
Zangetsu:   2.14   0.69
Golbez:   8.07   0.61
FuSoYa-T:   5.7   2.36

If it's not obvious, all the nameless generic temps failed to get any ratings...at all...and I don't think anyone really cares either!

Best Rating of this Session: Golbez  w/ 8.07.  I suppose you could argue he should be "Theodore 'Golbez' Harvey" but shh!
Lowest Rating of this Session: Harley w/ 1.00.  Congratulations Edward-C, you aren't the worst character in the session!

This session, we'll do something a little smaller, because...uhh...stuff.  One is something that should have been done a while back, another is something I sort of picked out of a hat when discussing it with someone else and...oh screw it...

Earthbound:
Ness:
Paula:
Jeff:
Poo:

AND FOR FUN!!!
Pokey:
King:
Pickey:
Buzz Buzz:
Bubble Monkey:
Dungeon Man:
Flying Man:

(yeah, feel free to skip all of those if you want, I'm just being silly)

Star Ocean 4: The Last Hope:
Edge:
Reimi:
Faize:
Lymle:
Bacchus:
Meracle:
Myuria:
Sarah:
Arumat:

As usual, if I made a mistake, feel free to note it, and I will correct it.
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

Reiska

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #885 on: October 15, 2013, 04:55:24 AM »
I might revise the numbers a bit later.

Ness: 7/10.  He's very inflated in the DL since there he's taken at his best, when for the majority of the actual game he's not overpowering; he's just a tanky healer who doesn't really have the PP to pull out his big damage with any frequency before Magicant.  Without the Magicant boost, I'd probably rate him 6/10.
Paula: 6/10.  She's very DEFLATED in the DL thanks to Ness' average-warping at endgame.  Durability is a very real issue, though, and late game her damage does fall behind.  She does have the most spammable MT of any of the cast pre-Magicant, this is worth something.
Jeff: 6/10.  He's poor to mediocre until Big Bottle Rockets come into play, then one of your best damage-dealers against bosses for most of the pre-Magicant game.  Late-game he falls off a bit again, but he would probably be better than Ness if not for the Magicant boost just on the strength of Multi Bottle Rockets.
Poo: 5/10.  He's a worse Ness at base and doesn't get the Magicant boost.  He's not an active drag on the team though, so shrug.

074

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #886 on: October 15, 2013, 05:32:03 AM »
Star Ocean 4: The Last Hope:

Edge: 7/10.  Edge has a bit of a slow start, and running into BEES on Aeos is kind of a very real threat.  Blacksmithing is one of the better crafting types, though, and he's your only meleer for the first third or so of the game.  He's more useful about early through midgame, starts to fall off around endgame--his big damage specials in maingame being a bit slow on the draw and low-impact don't help.

Reimi: 6.5/10.  Reimi feels...overrated to me.  She's decent at clearing out randoms, yes, but that assumes you give them enough decoys to actually let her specials go off.  The second she's in a corner, she has trouble.  And no, the dodge-shot is not useful.  I suppose in theory I should be taking advantage of Cooking, but that's...eeehhh.  She has problems with a lack of quickdraw abilities and the fact that if she gets cornered, she's dead.

Faize: 5.5/10.  Faize is...kind of mediocre, and tries to play at being a mage with a few physical tricks--kind of like Richard from ToGf, only...well, let's just say Faize really could've used a few techniques alongside his rather piddly magic offerings.  At least he gets Ice Needles.

Lymle: 4.5/10.  My pick for LVP in this game.  Her crafting skill is pointless, she's a mage who doesn't get the good (Ice/Lightning) spells, and feels more than a bit frustrating to try and work with.  She -can- hit large areas at range but that's covered better by two others.  Her mobility and casting speed don't help either.

Bacchus: 9/10.  Even without his combat worth and the fact that he makes Sahariel about four times easier off of Galvanic Shock, I'd still rate him highly.  Why?  Mining.  He is the only reason you can get a majority of the crafting materials that you do in SO4, outside of chests.  Without him, you're stuck hoping for chests and drops.  The fact that he makes a more durable alternative to Reimi (and then Emergency Repairs come En-II) make me rank him even higher than that.

Meracle: 7/10.  Subjectively, I'd rate her a 8/10, but objectively I'll have to drop her a point.  Meracle's a fighter who trades durability and range for comboability and damage--this means that if you can take advantage of the Blindside mechanics, she outdoes Edge in particular, but is rather terrible in the hands of the AI.  Her shitty MP pool doesn't help either--she really needs a player behind her to make her shine.

Myuria: 8.5/10.  For raw combat ability, Myuria's one of the two best PCs in the game in my opinion.  She gets the best elemental options for combat use (Ice and Lightning spells tend to outdo the rest in a fight, with the former being damaging, fast, and with a fatal status, and the latter being great lockdown), and backs that up with both some amazing magic ability and the usability as a secondary healer.  Basically what Lymle wishes she was.

Sarah: 8/10.  Synthesis is pretty awesome once you start playing around with it.  Synthesis aside, Sarah has the other benefit of being the best healer.  I don't -like- healers often, but you're going to need high-octane healing in the lategame, and Sarah's the one to provide it, being the only one to get the second-tier healing spells.

Arumat: 8/10.  For in-game use, I found Arumat amazing.  He comes bundled with a strong weapon, wide-area attacks that are great against randoms -and- Kokabiel, and a ranged option.  His magic blows (though a Laser Weapon can make it do respectable damage at the time you can get it), but that's not much of a complaint.  The only real complaint I can give for him is that he joins very late in the game--he's basically better than Edge in everything he does outside of crafting--and Smithing is so dependent on Bacchus joining that I don't really credit it that much in Edge's favor.  And, I guess, his weapon upgrades are a pain in the ass to forge because they require Star Sapphires.  Goddamned Star Sapphires.
<+Nama-EmblemOfFire> ...Have the GhebFE guy and the ostian princess guy collaborate.
 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.

Clear Tranquil

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #887 on: October 15, 2013, 01:15:25 PM »
Hmm, wouldn't say Artistry is completely useless/not worth anything myself/personally, I mean I thought so but then when I played the PS3 version and actually bothered with the Item Creation system at all, I did find Artistry nice for getting Enhance and stuff from really early, nice for boss battles at least :)

Lym doesn't get Fast Cast?, I forgot. Well I think she does >_>

That's interesting though, taking into account non combat skills for rating/ranking, never really thought of that~
« Last Edit: October 15, 2013, 01:19:31 PM by Clear Tranquil »
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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #888 on: October 15, 2013, 04:00:37 PM »
Lymle does get Fast Cast, but PC base cast times vary considerably and Lymle's are the worst, to the point where Fast Cast Lymle is about equal to non-Fast Cast Edge or Arumat. To be fair, post-Fast Cast she is a notably faster caster than Sarah, but the latter gets revival spells and better healing spells so enjoys a considerable advantage unless you give Lymle Fairy Star.

I'll toss my ratings up in a bit.

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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #889 on: October 15, 2013, 05:38:11 PM »
Earthbound

Ness: 8/10. Don't underrate the value of tanky healers, especially in a game where both status and high-grade offense are rather prominent. Ness isn't -overpowered- for most of the game, but he's clearly the best PC you have, sporting the best free ST physical offense for a long time (for whatever that's worth, though resource conservation IS a serious concern until you get access to Poo's PP restoration items), full MT offense in a pinch, game-best durability and quality healing. The endgame boost makes him carry the party on his back to boot.
Paula: 6.5/10. Yeah, Paula isn't a bad PC in-game at all. For most of the game, she's your premier randombuster, running off game-best PP until Magicant and oodles of elemental manipulation and crowd control, giving her effectively good offense. The tissue paper durability is a serious issue, but she also has game-best speed until the lategame (Poo only becomes fast once he grabs the Cloak of Kings) and EB enemies are slow. Her damage TANKS endgame because of Psi Rockin' and Starstorm Omega, but by then she's served her purpose.
Jeff: 5.5/10. Jeff's just trashy if you don't know how to get his items (bad durability and bad speed purely running off EB base physicals make you -worthless- for everything) and you constantly have to micromanage his inventory, but Bottle Rockets and later Multi Bottle Rockets are positively nuts for offense (look at the typical boss HP stats on EB and compare them to his offense). He melts most bosses like nothing else and at least bazookas hand him some free crowd control, which can't be underemphasized in this game.
Poo: 4.5/10. On paper, Poo is great! Healing! Good stats! MT offense! Elemental damage! ... holy shit he has NO EQUIPMENT DRAW and fucking sucks without PP (as in offensively worse than Paula without PP) - oh, and his healing skillset is inferior to Ness'. And his resources blow. It could be worse, since he shows up and then your stock of PP healing suddenly begins to -exist- (because of him, even!). Still, he definitely feels like the most problematic PC in spite of both Paula and Jeff having more fundamental flaws.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 12:47:17 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Random Consonant

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #890 on: October 15, 2013, 05:40:16 PM »
Earthbound

Ness: 8/10. Don't underrate the value of tanky healers, especially in a game where both status and high-grade offense are rather prominent. Ness isn't -overpowered- for most of the game, but he's clearly the best PC you have, sporting the best free ST physical offense for a long time (for whatever that's worth, though resource conservation IS a serious concern until you get access to Poo's PP restoration items), full MT offense in a pinch, game-best durability and quality healing. The endgame boost makes him carry the party on his back to boot.
Paula: 6.5/10. Yeah, Paula isn't a bad PC in-game at all. For most of the game, she's your premier randombuster, running off game-best PP until Magicant and oodles of elemental manipulation and crowd control, giving her effectively good offense. The tissue paper durability is a serious issue, but she also has second-best speed and EB enemies are slow. Her damage TANKS endgame because of Psi Rockin' and Starstorm Omega, but by then she's served her purpose.
Jeff: 5.5/10. Jeff's kinda trashy if you don't know how to get his items and you constantly have to micromanage his inventory, but Bottle Rockets and later Multi Bottle Rockets are positively nuts for offense (look at the typical boss HP stats on EB and compare them to his offense). He melts most bosses like nothing else and at least bazookas hand him some free crowd control, which can't be underemphasized in this game.
Poo: 4.5/10. On paper, Poo is great! Healing! Good stats! MT offense! ... holy shit he has NO EQUIPMENT DRAW and fucking sucks without PP - oh, and his healing skillset is inferior to Ness'. And his resources blow. It could be worse, since he shows up and then your stock of PP healing suddenly begins to -exist- (because of him, even!). Still, he definitely feels like the most problematic PC in spite of both Paula and Jeff having more fundamental flaws.

Sure, this works for me.

VySaika

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #891 on: October 15, 2013, 06:10:00 PM »
Earthbound:
Ness: 9/10 - Feels like the cast best PC the entire way through, spiking to straight up nutso at endgame. Ness does basically everything and does it well.
Paula: 5/10 - Yeah, she has the psi attacks that clear randoms for most of the game, but I still find she runs out too fast and her durability is....problematic, to say the least.
Jeff: 7/10. I had the strategy guide, so getting Jeff's stuff wasn't a problem. Alot of his stuff was pretty useful, too. And then he turns bosses into slag with bottle rockets.
Poo: 3/10. Exists to be a healing battery and that's about it. Can't compete with Paula vs randoms, Jeff vs bosses, or Ness vs anything. Sure, starstorm is cool! If you're willing to spend your healing reserve on overpriced MT damage. It's a nice option to have, sure, but not one I found useful all that often.


King: 4/10 - Earlygame temp that is actually very useful for keeping alive and getting you going. Good dog, best friend~
Other Temps - Meeple/10.
Pokey - Super/10
<%Laggy> we're open minded individuals here
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superaielman

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #892 on: October 15, 2013, 06:40:44 PM »
:( I'm pokey? Foul.
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-------------------
<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
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VySaika

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #893 on: October 15, 2013, 07:59:32 PM »
It's less that you're Pokey, and more that Pokey is you.
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #894 on: October 16, 2013, 05:05:17 AM »
Star Ocean 4: The Last Hope:

Played this game twice in the last year so get ready for lots of analysis! Unlike Nama I don't give credit for out-of-battle/IC/etc. stuff. All I have to say on that front is that Resurrection Units are insanely good so Compounding would get a bonus from me if I did. I'm also scoring entirely on the maingame. More emphasis on the aftergame would hurt Edge, Faize, and Lymle, but help Meracle, Myuria, and Sarah, I think. Possibly Reimi and Bacchus as well.

Edge: 4/10. This game is not a game which is terribly kind to melee fighters. And even if it were, Edge isn't really a remarkably good one anyway. "Tanky healier" just isn't worth it when eventually he's just too bad at the job. Still, not terrible or anything;in particular I find the game doesn't exploit his weaknesses early while he's forced, and he's the best healer for quite a while (durability and casting speed puts him over pre-Fairy Healing Lymle).

Reimi: 7/10. I go back and forth on Reimi. On paper she's not all that great, as the DL stat topic shows. In practice... game seems to want her to be good. Her ranged offence I tend to find slightly better than Bacchus' and benefits relatively more from Berserk, and she gets a lot more elemental weaopns than anyone else... memorably fire for Lemuris, dark for Kokabiel, and holy for endgame. So she ends up with quite high damage output in general, and is nicely mobile.

Faize: 4/10. He gets some good spells, but bad Int, and no healing. Ice Needles in particular is good enough to keep him in the party, especially on Cardianon where many things are weak to it. Fairly speedy too. But as time goes on you get more and more superior sources of ranged damage, and on people who have better skillsets.

Lymle: 4/10. I dunno. Offensively she has the best raw damage of the mages with the Cerberus spells, but it's tied to one element (although only half-tied for Hound Grenade), and due to casting times she's horrible at other attack magic (such as the normally great Lightning Blast). At healing, at first she's pretty great since she'll pick up Fairy Healing in Cardianon, and nobody else has that until you're done with Roak. But that's her ceiling; once Sarah shows up and Myuria gets Fairy Healing, she loses this niche, and then falls behind due to lack of revival.

Bacchus: 8/10. The cast MVP. Once he gets Black Hole Sphere he becomes probably the best at fighting randoms, stunning damn near the full field and filling up his rush gauge more or less for free. Even aside from that he has solid ranged options (Termination, Force Breaker, etc.), and Galvanic Shock is top-tier melee damage when lightning isn't resisted (and can even stun bosses). Does everything on offence. On defence? Even if you're running a team built around healing and survival, guess what, you're gonna want him, because he has appreciably more HP than everyone else and all SO4 healing is MHP-based, plus he gets Emergency Healing. The only bad things I can say about him is that he's kinda slow and some of his moves are a bit awkward.

Meracle: 3.5/10. This game is not a game which is terribly kind to melee fighters. And sadly for Meracle, that's all she does. With no AoE or range until the aftergame, and the lowest HP of the melee types, all she can do is unload melee damage to distracted or blindsided enemies... and she isn't even as good at that as Bacchus' Galvanic Shock! More damaging than Edge on the non-elemental melee fighter front I guess. And quite good at ripping out chunks of the wind-weak Armaros Manifest, who is one of the game's hardest bosses, so while I think she's the LVP she's not bad. Also she deserves a shout-out for aftergame skills fixing a number of her flaws.

Myuria: 7.5/10. So if you took Lymle and Faize, and created a PC with literally the best aspects of each, you'd have Myuria. Ice and lightning are the two best elements of attack magic (dark sucks though) and she gets both, off good casting speed. At first it feels like she pays for this skill at attack magic by being inferior at healing, but then she picks up Fairy Healing (surpassing Lymle) and Fast Cast (which Sarah misses). Even gets revival, and is probably the best candidate for Fairy Star, though both of those mostly matter for the aftergame. So yeah, good ranged cannon PC who is also a good healer.

Sarah: 6/10. She's boring, but fairly effective. Kinda crappy offensively though her Lightning Blast is decent enough. Good healer, although no Fast Cast limits her a bit. Still, she's a considerably better healer than Lymle is, and I often find having two healers is extremely valuable in this game. (Since if the enemies pressure one, the other can bail her out.)

Arumat: 6.5/10. This game is not a game which is terribly kind to melee fighters... is what I would say, but Arumat's a fair bit better, in no small part because he's secretly a ranged PC. Nether Strike's really great, better even than what Reimi does normally... though it is tied to an element which hurts. His attack magic is also better than you'd think: Laser Weapon can give it damage, but even if it's doing a pittance it is ludcrously fast and interrupts enemies. He didn't even need this, his raw melee game probably beats Edge's and Meracle's because he gets so much more AoE stuff and he has better HP.

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074

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #895 on: October 16, 2013, 09:48:35 AM »
Actually, I found that you don't get the last component for her dark weapon until right -after- Kokabiel.  Dark Talisman and its recipe are found on Nox Obscurus, frustratingly enough--unless there's a hidden one that I wasn't aware of before then.
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 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #896 on: October 16, 2013, 12:26:29 PM »
Are you talking Reimi here?  This may be a difference between X-Box and PS3 version.  My quick browsing around looks like the biggest throttle on the only Dark bow I could find (Spirit Bow "Darkstriker") seems to be either Rank 9 Smithing or Darkness Gems if I am reading guides right.

Item Creation: Smithery Lv. 9
Carbon Fiber x4
All-Purpose Ceramic x3
Aramid Fiber x2
Darkness Gem x6

The other 3 seem to be basic crafting mats.  I counted 3 or so Darkness Gems in chests with Find function in a guide and saw 3 enemies that drop them, looked like 2 at a glance that are before this Kokabiel boss.

Would just note that specifics of differences between the two versions seem to be pretty poorly documented online, but you may see some difference based on X-Box 360 vs PS3 especially when discussing the value of item creation.

Edit - That is based on the comments in Gamefaqs FAQ for SO4 International below.

Quote
1.3.  Q: Whats the difference between the International and the 360 version ?

A: The international version of Star Ocean The Last hope is on only 1 blu-ray disc, which makes all of the post game content much easier since you don't need to be swapping discs every few minutes. It also includes Japanese voice overs, and anime portraits. A couple of extra treasure chests were added, and some of the final ones have been changed a bit. The Synthing priorities have also been tweaked a bit so it's harder to exploit and easily create great items. Apart from the added Japanese voices, everything else is pretty minor and more likely to not be noticed at all while playing.

« Last Edit: October 16, 2013, 12:28:05 PM by Grefter »
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #897 on: October 16, 2013, 03:50:14 PM »
For the record, I can attest for certain that I've had that bow for Kokabiel and I certainly didn't do any crazy grinding to get it. And yeah, I know a bunch of IC stuff was rebalanced between the versions, so it wouldn't stun me if the Darkstriker was made a bit harder to get (because it was really good for an EN II item)... though somewhat annoyingly this would make the bow kinda trashy because Nox Obscurus is infested with enemies who resist darkness and are weak to holy, so you might as well just use the (only slightly weaker) endgame storebought holy bow.

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074

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #898 on: October 16, 2013, 10:59:52 PM »
Version differences ahoy, then.  Reimi's better on 360 than she is on PS3, so on.  Mystery solved, I suppose.
<+Nama-EmblemOfFire> ...Have the GhebFE guy and the ostian princess guy collaborate.
 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #899 on: October 20, 2013, 04:02:12 PM »
Thanks for the input re casting times and stuff :)

My rankings. For 360 version. Most notably I do take into account things like Savage Sparrow juggles/rush hax,  effective Blindside utilization with those characters with the best Blindsides (Meracle, Aramut) , Beat S perks like charge Blindside while attacking, Exceed Chain combos, infinite juggle combos with X-Claw, Dragon Roar, stuff like that. Critical rate also holds more value to me especially since you can also juggle the likes of even a super boss with no guard status with crits neutralizing/negating No Guard. Range/crowd control/status don't matter as much to me. I mean, they do matter but I just feel fighting lots of randoms just gets you the money skills for bosses quicker (especially if you take advantage of Bonus board/Cooking EXP+ boost factors/etc) This was more apparent to me on the PS3 version where I took my time with the game and had to fight lots of randoms to fill out monster jewel data/towards getting titles/trophies/etc though.

Star Ocean 4: The Last Hope:
Edge: 7/10
Reimi: 8/10
Faize:  5/10
Lymle: 5.5/10
Bacchus: 8/10
Meracle: 8/10
Myuria: 6.5/10
Sarah: 6.5/10
Arumat: 8/10
« Last Edit: October 20, 2013, 05:18:59 PM by Clear Tranquil »
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