Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!

[DjinnAndTonic]

Digital Devil Saga:
Serph: 8.5
Heat: 4
Argilla: 7
Gale: 6
Cielo: 2


Pokemon Gen 2 Grass, Bug, Ghost, and Poison types:
Venusaur: DNR
Vileplume: 3
Parasect: 3.5 for Spore
Victreebel: 5.5
Exeggutor: 4
Tangela: 2
Meganium: 7
Bellossom: 2
Jumpluff: 4
Sunflora: 1
Celebi: DNR

Butterfree: 7 - earlygame worth is weighted heavily since earlygame is the only place you're likely to find challenge in Pokemon
Beedrill: 2
Venomoth: 2
Pinsir: 3
Ledian: 2
Ariados: 1
Yanma: 1
Forretress: 2
Scizor: 5
Shuckle: 4 - not dying is a great niche in-game because it gives you time to throw potions and revives to not miss out on that delicious exp
Heracross: 3

Arbok: 2
Nidoqueen: 3
Nidoking: 3
Muk: 2
Gengar: 6
Weezing: 1
Crobat: 6
Misdreavus: 2

[Dark Holy Elf]

earlygame worth is weighted heavily since earlygame is the only place you're likely to find challenge in Pokemon

This may be true in some of the games, but it sure as heck isn't true in GSC. The first two gym leaders are mega-scrubs. (Whitney, if she's still considered early, is pretty good but Butterfree performs horribly there, being very likely outsped and OHKOed.)

Butterfree's still decent enough mind. GSC standards.

[Meeplelard]

Updating Tomorrow, those who want to rate, do it within the next 24 hours (possibly less because I don't follow rules!), and those who wish to finish ratings and haven't yet, do it now or else...you simply will be left incomplete <_<?

[DjinnAndTonic]

Just against randoms and other trainers along the way. Not necessarily the first two gyms themselves.

Also, fast status and such is really useful for catching monsters, so that's something I'm baking into that rating.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Butterfree isn't particularly fast...

[Reiska]

Butterfree's reasonably fast when taken against the various really junk trainers GSC throws at you with unevolved trash.

[Meeplelard]

Digital Devil Saga:

   Average   STDEVA
Serph   8.07   0.53
Heat   3.43   0.79
Argilla   6.71   0.76
Gale   5.93   0.45
Cielo   2.71   0.49

Standard Deviation: 2.25

Pokemon Gen 2 Grass, Bug, Ghost, and Poison types:

   Average   STDEVA
Venusaur   N/A   N/A
Vileplume   2.42   0.49
Parasect   2.25   0.61
Victreebel   5.42   0.80
Exeggutor   3.50   0.55
Tangela   2.50   0.77
Meganium   6.83   0.26
Bellossom   2.50   2.24
Jumpluff   3.75   1.84
Sunflora   1.25   0.76
Celebi   N/A   N/A

Butterfree   4.50   1.38
Beedrill   1.92   0.80
Venomoth   2.00   0.71
Pinsir   2.83   0.75
Ledian   1.58   0.92
Ariados   1.00   0.00
Yanma   1.00   0.00
Forretress   1.42   0.49
Scizor   4.17   0.98
Shuckle   2.58   1.11
Heracross   3.25   0.61

Arbok   1.80   0.45
Nidoqueen   3.80   0.84
Nidoking   3.90   0.74
Muk   1.60   0.55
Gengar   6.25   1.25
Weezing   1.70   0.67
Crobat   6.00   0.00
Misdreavus   2.00   1.03

I've decided I'm just going to stop with the "Best Rating" and "Worst Rating" stuff from now on; with the bolding and italicizing, I feel it gets the same point across while not looking as redundant.  If you really want me to keep doing that, just proclaim it loudly and annoyingly so I will notice it and I will bring it back if there is enough!

Also, because there were a number of split ratings, but not enough people rating this session to justify splitting ti up, I just assumed Scyther/Scizor were the same here.  Likewise, I went based on Gengar, not "Gengar vs. Haunter."

Next game to go along with Pokemon is something I just sort of noticed wasn't done and went "Screw it, we're doing it!"  I'm splitting it up based on character, as opposed to class, because not everyone used every class, and even then, the character having access to the class is a specific advantage and yada yada yada just deal with it!

Seiken Densetsu 3:
Angela:
Carlie:
Duran:
Hawkeye:
Kevin:
Lise:

Pokemon Gen 2 Rock, Ground, Fighting, Psychic and Steel types:
Sandslash:
Dugtrio:
Golem:
Marowak:
Rhydon:
Aerodactyl:
Gligar:
Steelix:
Donphan:
Sudowoodo:
Skarmory:

Primeape:
Machamp:
Himonlee:
Hitmonchan:
Hitmontop:

Alakazam:
Hypno:
Mr. Mime:
Mewtwo:
Mew:
Xatu:
Espeon:
Unown:
Wobuffet:
Lugia:


For those wondering why the order is the way it is...I originally was going to do Rock/Ground/Steel only then realized how few those were, so said screw it and tossed in Fighting and Psychic, hopefully finishing off the rest of Pokemon (Flying was covered through everything else due to nothing but Dual Types.)  As a result, it's vaguely split up by typings, but not perfectly here...I know no one cares about order, but shh!

If I've missed ANY typings, please let me know!

[Dark Holy Elf]

I think you made some errors, Meeple.

-Meganium got only scores of 6.5 or 7, but its average is listed as 6...
-Nidoking and Nidoqueen got the same scores from everyone (except for one half-point difference), you have them a full point apart.

And that's just at a quick glance; wouldn't be shocked if there are some others.

[Meeplelard]

Ok, fixed; the errors were simple derps on my end, thank you for noticing.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Seiken Densetsu 3:
Angela: 7/10. Great MT damage early which never becomes terrible, and hits weakness on most bosses. Makes a ridiculous difference for some fights which exploit physical immunity (Gorva comes to mind). On the other hand she is a bit frail and some enemies counter magic which she has to watch out for.
Carlie: 7/10. I don't really like using her much; she's boring but undoubtedly rather good. Fast Heal Lights are great for dealing with enemy damage and she extends your resources a lot. Depending on the build she can also get other useful things like sabres or Black Curse or Turn Undead.
Duran: 3/10. Scrubby. Might be the #2 fighter but it's a distant #2, and his skillset is pretty bad. Sabres are okay.
Hawkeye: 5/10. Stat downs are good and he's one of two ways to apply them before Black Curse. Really bad early.
Kevin: 8/10. Smash you in the face. Best fighter by a lot and you probably want one. Best durability to boot.
Lise: 5/10. Stat downs are good and she's one of two ways to apply them before Black Curse. Really bad early. (Lise vs. Hawk have a bunch of subtle differences but not sure how much I care about any of them.)


Grounds really want that Earthquake TM, but so do a lot of pokemon, and it's really late. I have a hard time respecting it much, though I'll at least think about it for grounds, unlike everyone else. There is also Dig, but that's only 60 power.

Pokemon Gen 2 Rock, Ground, Fighting, Psychic and Steel types:
Sandslash: 4/10. Badly needs ground TMs. Has a decent stat build if it gets them, trash otherwise.
Dugtrio: 2/10. Kanto. At least it learns ground attacks and is fast.
Golem: 6.5/10. Good typing, actually learns useful things, though wishes EQ was just slightly earlier. Graveller stats start looking mediocre around the end though, in particular that speed is awful.
Marowak: 3/10. If I understand correctly, you can buy one at the Game Corner, but those will never have Thick Clubs? Without that... it's a ground which learns really powerful moves (Bonemerang!) but has crap stats. Toss in the extra effort needed to get it in the first place and respect is low.
Rhydon: 3/10. Late and has crap innate skills, but pretty good stats if you want to TM it I guess.
Aerodactyl: 1/10. Kanto, underlevelled.
Gligar: 2/10. It has pretty average stats. It also gets practically no STAB moves even with TMs.
Steelix: 4.5/10. Onix actually isn't that bad! You gain it early when it's fast and it's got quick exp gain due to being a trade evo. But overall you're better off longterm running Geodude, who learns more innate moves and eventually has notably better stats.
Donphan: 3/10. Pretty much a Rhydon variant. Gained at the same time, similar stat build and crap skillset, no rock... eh whatever.
Sudowoodo: 4.5/10. Mm. It's slow, but it actually learns Rock Slide (!) and Low Kick, so it's functional filler.
Skarmory: 5/10. Decent stats/good typing and can learn Fly. Can also use its bulk and typing to annoy fighters with Sand Attack. A bit underlevelled... but sure.

Primeape: 6/10. Solid enough speed and actually learns fighting moves, and its elemental punches aren't totally negligible. A bit underlevelled though.
Machamp: 5/10. A lot slower than Primeape, but it's in a better situation level-wise. Probably still balances out to a loss though.
Himonlee: 2/10. Getting one is just obnoxious. Tyrogue then make sure it gets the right stat exp? Okay. There's a non-Odd Egg way but then it's underlevelled and you still have the dumb Tyrogue stage. Pretty good if you go to the trouble.
Hitmonchan: 1/10. Why they didn't raise this thing's SA in gen 2 is beyond me, isn't its whole game elemental punches?
Hitmontop: 1/10.

Alakazam: 7.5/10. Let's take an already good pokemon and give it elemental punches, what a great idea. The durability is pretty bad late without the trade evo, though.
Hypno: 6/10. Zam who can take hits but isn't nearly as good on offence, also no Recover. This is still good.
Mr. Mime: 1/10. Kanto scrub.
Mewtwo: DNR
Mew: DNR
Xatu: 3/10. Nice typing, decent stats... -_- but the skillset. It learns nothing at reasonable levels beyond Night Shade and HM Fly off its lower attack stat.
Espeon: 3/10. Great stats, but no special attacks until Level 36 unless you breed Eevee to get a lower-levelled Espeon. Sigh. They really didn't want you to use that Eevee for offence, did they.
Unown: 1/10. Don't have to look anything up for this one!
Wobuffet: 5/10. I'm not really sure. I have used one before and they are really weird. They can often kill bosses who don't try to set up on it, and GSC bosses don't really do set ups so I imagine this works okay. Randoms they'll take down one or two then bow out. Really strange, I'll just give it an average score.
Lugia: 9/10. It's Lugia. Late but obviously rules.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Seiken Densetsu 3:
Angela: 7/10. Great MT damage early which never becomes terrible, and hits weakness on most bosses. Makes a ridiculous difference for some fights which exploit physical immunity (Gorva comes to mind). On the other hand she is a bit frail and some enemies counter magic which she has to watch out for.
Carlie: 7/10. I don't really like using her much; she's boring but undoubtedly rather good. Fast Heal Lights are great for dealing with enemy damage and she extends your resources a lot. Depending on the build she can also get other useful things like sabres or Black Curse or Turn Undead.
Duran: 3/10. Scrubby. Might be the #2 fighter but it's a distant #2, and his skillset is pretty bad. Sabres are okay.
Hawkeye: 5/10. Stat downs are good and he's one of two ways to apply them before Black Curse. Really bad early.
Kevin: 8/10. Smash you in the face. Best fighter by a lot and you probably want one. Best durability to boot.
Lise: 5/10. Stat downs are good and she's one of two ways to apply them before Black Curse. Really bad early. (Lise vs. Hawk have a bunch of subtle differences but not sure how much I care about any of them.)


Grounds really want that Earthquake TM, but so do a lot of pokemon, and it's really late. I have a hard time respecting it much, though I'll at least think about it for grounds, unlike everyone else. There is also Dig, but that's only 60 power.

Pokemon Gen 2 Rock, Ground, Fighting, Psychic and Steel types:
Sandslash: 4/10. Badly needs ground TMs. Has a decent stat build if it gets them, trash otherwise.
Dugtrio: 2/10. Kanto. At least it learns ground attacks and is fast.
Golem: 6.5/10. Good typing, actually learns useful things, though wishes EQ was just slightly earlier. Graveller stats start looking mediocre around the end though, in particular that speed is awful.
Marowak: 3/10. If I understand correctly, you can buy one at the Game Corner, but those will never have Thick Clubs? Without that... it's a ground which learns really powerful moves (Bonemerang!) but has crap stats. Toss in the extra effort needed to get it in the first place and respect is low.
Rhydon: 3/10. Late and has crap innate skills, but pretty good stats if you want to TM it I guess.
Aerodactyl: 1/10. Kanto, underlevelled.
Gligar: 2/10. It has pretty average stats. It also gets practically no STAB moves even with TMs.
Steelix: 4.5/10. Onix actually isn't that bad! You gain it early when it's fast and it's got quick exp gain due to being a trade evo. But overall you're better off longterm running Geodude, who learns more innate moves and eventually has notably better stats.
Donphan: 3/10. Pretty much a Rhydon variant. Gained at the same time, similar stat build and crap skillset, no rock... eh whatever.
Sudowoodo: 4.5/10. Mm. It's slow, but it actually learns Rock Slide (!) and Low Kick, so it's functional filler.
Skarmory: 5/10. Decent stats/good typing and can learn Fly. Can also use its bulk and typing to annoy fighters with Sand Attack. A bit underlevelled... but sure.

Primeape: 6/10. Solid enough speed and actually learns fighting moves, and its elemental punches aren't totally negligible. A bit underlevelled though.
Machamp: 5/10. A lot slower than Primeape, but it's in a better situation level-wise. Probably still balances out to a loss though.
Himonlee: 2/10. Getting one is just obnoxious. Tyrogue then make sure it gets the right stat exp? Okay. There's a non-Odd Egg way but then it's underlevelled and you still have the dumb Tyrogue stage. Pretty good if you go to the trouble.
Hitmonchan: 1/10. Why they didn't raise this thing's SA in gen 2 is beyond me, isn't its whole game elemental punches?
Hitmontop: 1/10.

Alakazam: 7.5/10. Let's take an already good pokemon and give it elemental punches, what a great idea. The durability is pretty bad late without the trade evo, though.
Hypno: 6/10. Zam who can take hits but isn't nearly as good on offence, also no Recover. This is still good.
Mr. Mime: 1/10. Kanto scrub.
Mewtwo: DNR
Mew: DNR
Xatu: 3/10. Nice typing, decent stats... -_- but the skillset. It learns nothing at reasonable levels beyond Night Shade and HM Fly off its lower attack stat.
Espeon: 3/10. Great stats, but no special attacks until Level 36 unless you breed Eevee to get a lower-levelled Espeon. Sigh. They really didn't want you to use that Eevee for offence, did they.
Unown: 1/10. Don't have to look anything up for this one!
Wobuffet: 5/10. I'm not really sure. I have used one before and they are really weird. They can often kill bosses who don't try to set up on it, and GSC bosses don't really do set ups so I imagine this works okay. Randoms they'll take down one or two then bow out. Really strange, I'll just give it an average score.
Lugia: 9/10. It's Lugia. Late but obviously rules.

...damn that is a thorough write up. I have nothing to add.

[Random Consonant]

Seiken Densetsu 3:
Angela: 7/10
Carlie: 7/10
Duran: 3/10
Hawkeye: 5/10
Kevin: 8/10
Lise: 5/10

Pokemon Gen 2 Rock, Ground, Fighting, Psychic and Steel types:
Sandslash: 4/10
Dugtrio: 2/10
Golem: 5/10
Marowak: 2/10
Rhydon: 3/10
Aerodactyl: 1/10
Gligar: 2/10
Steelix: 4/10
Donphan: 3/10
Sudowoodo: 4/10
Skarmory: 5/10

Primeape: 6/10
Machamp: 4/10
Himonlee: 1/10
Hitmonchan: 1/10
Hitmontop: 1/10

Alakazam: 7/10
Hypno: 6/10
Mr. Mime: 1/10
Mewtwo: DNR
Mew: DNR
Xatu: 3/10
Espeon: 3/10
Unown: 0/10
Wobuffet: Abstain
Lugia: 9/10

[SnowFire]

Anyone opposed to, at some point in the not too distant future (which is about as vague a statement as I can make!) about re-ranking previously ranked games?  This is more gauging interest and they would only happen alongside something else added on.

Sure, I'll chime in.  What's the point while there's still plenty of unranked games?  To be sure, if you want, have a session that strongly encourages people to rank any games they missed before from the list of ranked games, but I don't really see the point of re-doing games unless there's reason to think interpretations have changed. 

If you're worried about low turnout due to increasing obscura, well, throw up 4 different obscura games at once.  Something like FF12RW / Sands of Destruction / Some more obscure Tales game / Lost Odyssey?  I certainly think we should do obscura at SOME point, there might not be enough rankings for averages, but I'd still be interested in thoughts on character balance.

Seiken Densetsu 3:
Angela: 6/10? - vs. other commentators -1.  My "problem" with Angela is more annoyance - SD3 already is pausing the action for L2 & L3 specials all the time, Angela is a very heavy menu caster if you want to get the most out of her.  This makes her less good from a "time efficiency / sanity" perspective IMHO, even if she's obviously great for bosses.
Carlie: 8/10 - A Carlie-less playthrough of SD3 strikes me as something very different, since you're stuck with 9 Poto Oils for MT healing in a game where MT attacks are not that uncommon.
Duran: 3/10 - He's not exactly "bad", just seems strictly worse than Kevin.  Kevin & Duran have healing, Hawk & Lise have stat manipulation, but Kevin does more damage than Duran.
Hawkeye: 6/10
Kevin: 7/10
Lise: 6/10

[Meeplelard]

Seiken Densetsu 3:
Angela: 6/10.  Strong early game, iffy midgame, strong late game.
Carlie: 4/10.  She's a good back up, but she's also easily replaced.  Poto Oils are available early, and you should never need more than 9 per boss fight sans the final bosses, and even then, you have other healing items.
Duran: 3/10.  His best use is FST + Aura Wave...which requires another character entirely.
Hawkeye: 7/10.  2nd best physical in the game thanks to two hits, Stat Downs, Wanderer's slew of nonsense, and he starts the game with his best tech.
Kevin: 8/10.  Healing, HP, high damage, you know the drill.
Lise: 6.5/10.  Similar to Hawkeye but notably weaker Physical (if nothing else, the level 1 tech makes a huge difference here.)

Pokemon Gen 2 Rock, Ground, Fighting, Psychic and Steel types:
Sandslash: 4/10.  Passable but nothing special.
Dugtrio: 2/10.  Kanto only so yeah...
Golem: 6/10.  Magnitude allows for actual ground damage the entire game that doesn't suck, and the chance of a weak one is low.  Trade evo hurts, but Graveler is at least a solid 2nd form.
Marowak: 2/10.  Late and requires a rare item.
Rhydon: 3/10.  On paper, he's Golem+, in practice, he's later and has a worse level up set in a game where that's a big deal.
Aerodactyl: 3/10.  Didn't realize at first this thing was actually obtainable in game.
Gligar: 2/10.  He got an evolution in Gen 4 for a reason.
Steelix: 4/10.  Onix is a good Jeigan this time around; Steelix itself is good but trade evo means I can't realistically give it higher than this, and like most Jeigans, Onix ends up being bad.
Donphan: 4/10.  Should be Sandslash+, but level up set holds it back
Sudowoodo: 4/10.  Ok, joins with a good level out of the gate and stats aren't awful, so that gives it some use...but only some...
Skarmory: 5/10.  It's late in Johto, but decent at what it is.

Primeape: 6/10.  Fighting types don't suck this time around, Primeape has stats mostly in the right places and just competent enough moveset to match.
Machamp: 4/10.  Trade Evo hurts, but Machoke isn't too bad a 2nd stage, but yeah, not as good as Primeape.
Himonlee: 2.5/10.  Looks fine on paper but good god is getting one at a reasonable point stupid.
Hitmonchan: 1/10.  Why would you use this, ever?
Hitmontop: 1.510.  Worse than Hitmonlee and equally stupid to get.

Alakazam: 7/10.  Elemental Punches on something that, despite the trade evo, is already fairly competent in it's own right. 
Hypno: 3/10.  Nerfed notably since Gen 1.
Mr. Mime: 1/10.  Yeah, "Kanto scrub" works here.
Mewtwo: DNR.
Mew: DNR
Xatu: 4/10.  Adequate but nothing special.
Espeon: 3/10.  Yeah, that moveset really makes it hard to justify using Espeon, despite the stats.
Unown: 0.5/10.  About as bad as a Pokemon can get, I can't justify giving it 0 because you can get one stupid early when they're stats are technically high and hit the jackpot on Hidden Power, maybe.  That's literally it's only use and worth getting above a 0.
Wobuffet: 5/10.  It's effective at what it is, but the nature of it means it's uses are limited because it needs to get hurt to hurt things.
Lugia: 9/10.  Can we say Uber?

[Luther Lansfeld]

Seiken Densetsu 3:
Angela: 7/10.
Carlie: 5/10. 
Duran: 3/10.
Hawkeye: 6/10. 
Kevin: 8/10.
Lise: 6.5/10.

[Grefter]

Seiken Densetsu 3:
Angela: 7/10.
Carlie: 5/10. 
Duran: 3/10.
Hawkeye: 6/10. 
Kevin: 8/10.
Lise: 6.5/10.

[Reiska]

SD3:

Angela: 8/10, basically echo NEB's arguments with the added point that if you want to face SD3's superboss for some reason you basically have to pick her as your main.
Carlie: 7/10.  Boring but effective as NEB says.
Duran: 1/10.  Utter trash, I won't even give him #2 fighter (I'd argue Hawkeye beats him in the long run, it's very close though!)  What might have been his one saving grace (shields) is completely nonfunctional due to a bug.
Hawkeye: 6/10.  Statdowns are good, and his physical damage is eventually decent against many enemies (high defense causes him issues).
Kevin: 9/10.  Would be amazing even without bugs helping his damage, but, well, bugs help his damage.
Lise: 6/10.  Statdowns are good.  She would be a point lower than Hawkeye because her physical damage isn't as good and is pretty consistently poor overall... but since you can pair her with Hawkeye and have him run statdowns while she runs statups, it evens out IMO.

Pokemon rock/ground/fighting/psychic/steel junk:

Most of these I'm not going to bother explaining much.

Sandslash: 5.5/10.  Slightly worse Donphan gotten slightly later.  I suppose having Dig as an option bumps it up a half point from the 5/10 I'd otherwise give it?
Dugtrio: 2/10.  Good for Kanto but not saying much
Golem: 5.5/10.  Probably best of the bunch, but I dock it a point for the trade evo.
Marowak: 3/10
Rhydon: 3/10.  It's Donphan with slightly better stats and an even worse movepool amd also really fucking late, no thanks.
Aerodactyl: 1/10
Gligar: 1.5/10
Steelix: 4/10.  Good but loses points for trade evo.
Donphan: 6/10.  On the one hand, no STAB.  On the other hand, mono-Ground is a better defensive typing than Rock/Ground IMO.  On the other other hand, that is less true in Gen 2 because Normal moves still dominate a lot.  He's catchable extremely early in Crystal, but horribly late in Silver and not at all in Gold.  He also evolves exceptionally early for something with the stats he has, Rollout is scary off 120 base attack... the lack of STAB until deep in Kanto is definitely a thing though.  Although his stats make up for it quite a bit, and it's not like Strength is a bad move. 
Sudowoodo: 5/10
Skarmory: 7/10.  It's late and a bit underleveled but not so much it can't catch up and the typing is fantastic.
Primeape: 6/10.  About as good as you'll get for gen 2 fighting.
Machamp: 4/10.  Trade evo and worse than Primeape?  Meh.
Hitmonlee: 1/10.  Fuck Tyrogue's crazy evolution method.
Hitmonchan: 0.5/10.  Absolute garbage pre-gen 4.
Hitmontop: 0/10.  LOL actually getting this damn thing.
Alakazam: 8/10.  Amazing Gen 1 pokemon gets better in Gen 2 with easy elemental punch access, jesus.  And that's even with me disrespecting the trade evo.
Hypno: 7/10.  Like NEB said, Alakazam with worse offense and much better defense.  It's not a bad trade.
Mr. Mime: 1/10
Mewtwo: DNR
Mew: DNR
Xatu: 2/10.  Wishes it had a better movepool.
Espeon: 2/10.  fuck breeding
Unown: 0/10 LOL
Wobbuffet: I really don't know what to rate this thing, but NEB's argument is correct.  5/10 I guess.
Lugia: 9/10, needs no explanation

[Dark Holy Elf]

Oh, good catch on Phanpy being catchable early; I assumed route 46 would come after route 45, silly me.

That said, this pretty much turns it into another Sandslash. A bunch of minor differences (less atk but more durability before evo, less speed but more atk after evo, evolves 3 levels later) but same idea: ground TMs or GTFO. The problem for Phanpy is that it can't learn Dig, so unlike Sandslash it has no ground STAB at all until the Earthquake TM which of course is hotly contested.

[Reiska]

Yeah.  Phanpy's biggest draws to me are definitely the relatively early evolution at level 25 (compare Rhyhorn -> Rhydon at 42) while having a fair bit better stats than Sandslash (which does evolve at 22).

It doesn't really care that it misses Dig, since Strength and Rollout are both arguably better despite the lack of STAB - two turn setup is somewhat unfavorable when coming from a slow mon, although I don't remember if GSC AI is smart enough to switch to a flying type against it.  In any case, it does learn Earthquake on its own in Kanto, and Strength probably holds it over until then (80 BP off 120 attack is nothing to sneeze at in GSC, even STAB-less, really).

That all said, I didn't realize how close the two were really; Sandslash's deficiencies don't merit it being three points lower.  Editing that.

addendum - to break down why I don't consider Dig that careworthy: Ground is really not that great of an attacking type in GSC due to sheer lack of moves for most of the game combined with the fact that almost everything ground SEs, some other type SEs earlier and better.  Fire and Rock get splashed by the ever-ubiquitous Surf (especially since almost all Rock types are also /Ground and thus W4'ed) - and Donphan counters Fire anyway via Rollout, Poison types are both near-universally shitty in GSC and better handled by a fast psychic type (Kadabra or even Hypno really) anyway, since physical tends to be poison types' good defense, and finally of the three relevant Steel types in GSC, one is water-weak, one is W4'ed by the Fire Punch you undoubtedly have somewhere in your team (Kadabra?) and the last immunes ground.  And two of those are weak to Rollout too, including the ground-immune one.  That leaves Electric... and GSC is really lacking in good Electrics - I don't think you actually face any of Ampharos, Raichu or Electabuzz in maingame, and Mareep/Flaaffy/Pikachu/Elekid more or less all should basically die to Donphan's Strength.  And even if you do face the good ones, well, none of them have any offense against Donphan worth mentioning, so there's that.

It definitely gets better even by gen 3 by virtue of ground moves actually existing before level 40 on things!

[Dark Holy Elf]

Pretty sure GSC AI does not switch against Dig (and in general, doesn't run many mixes of flyers with non-flyers even if it did), so the setup turn isn't a terribly big deal in-game. Dig/Fly are much better moves in-game than they are in competitive, generally. Dig's outright broken in-game in RBY, which is why they dropped its power by 40 in the sequel.

Additionally, the whole point of a ground is to hit all the ground weaknesses, I think. Ground weakness is common (rock, steel, fire, poison, and electric) so it's nice to be able to hit it. If you want something that does normal and non-STAB rock, you can do so much better than any of these guys, especially considering their speed stats which range from mediocre to awful. Heck, Furret has a similarly damaging Strength(/Return), off much better speed (though less physical durability).... and it's Furret for crying out loud. Same with the beefy-stat-but-no-STAB bugs (Pinsir, Scyther, Heracross), or the fighting types like Primeape, who actually do get a useful STAB as well. Never mind pokemon like Miltank or Tauros, which have both STAB normal and good overall stats / other skills to recommend 'em.

Of course one issue Sandslash faces is that the Dig TM will go to use somewhere regardless, and while it's nice that it has STAB on it, overall it can't get full credit. This is one reason that, say, Geodude is clearly better than either; it learns both rock and ground attacks naturally at relatively low levels (11 Rock Throw, 16 Magnitude) and has STAB on them.

[Reiska]

Furret is not Strengthing better than Donphan I'm pretty sure (Phanpy I definitely give you) and I'd definitely rather have the bulk anyway.  As for Geodude, I would definitely say Geodude is the best of the bunch if you have the means to evolve it to Golem.  (If it's stuck at Graveler stage, IMO, Sandslash or Donphan is a better investment for the long game.)

Really, I suppose, the biggest thing Donphan has going for it over all the other alternatives you mention (and they are good alternatives, I agree) is that it's in the second route in the game (in Crystal) and has a decent catch rate once it appears (albeit a low appearance rate of 5%); every alternative is either considerably later, considerably harder to catch, or both.  (Except for Mankey, all of them are 5% appearance rates, and Mankey/Miltank/Tauros are all moderately late, with Mankey being the latest.  Mankey also has the problem of being a single-game exclusive where that game isn't Crystal.)

[Meeplelard]

Seiken Densetsu 3:
   Average   STDEVA
Angela   6.88   0.64
Carlie   6.25   1.39
Duran   2.75   0.71
Hawkeye   5.75   0.71
Kevin   8.00   0.53
Lise   5.81   0.70

Full Cast Standard Deviation: 1.76

Pokemon Gen 2 Grass, Bug, Ghost, and Poison types:
   Average   STDEVA
Sandslash   4.30   0.67
Dugtrio   2.00   0.00
Golem   5.90   0.65
Marowak   2.60   0.55
Rhydon   3.00   0.00
Aerodactyl   1.40   0.89
Gligar   1.90   0.22
Steelix   4.20   0.27
Donphan   3.80   1.30
Sudowoodo   4.40   0.42
Skarmory   5.40   0.89

Primeape   6.00   0.00
Machamp   4.40   0.55
Himonlee   1.70   0.670
Hitmonchan   0.90   0.22
Hitmontop   0.80   0.45

Alakazam   7.40   0.42
Hypno   5.60   1.52
Mr. Mime   1.00   0.00
Mewtwo   N/A   N/A
Mew   N/A   N/A
Xatu   3.00   0.71
Espeon   2.80   0.45
Unown   0.50   0.50
Wobuffet   N/A (5.00)   N/A (0.00)
Lugia   9.00   0.00


Fun Fact: Both the highest AND lowest rated Pokemon were this session, with Lugia and Unown respectively.  Congrats to both.  Also, this session makes me want to shoot myself because of how many things I am adding to the Bottom 20+, stupid Tyrogue Evolutions <_<


We'll take it easy this session with one overdue game, and one that's a bit of a shot in the dark:

Mother 3:
Lucas:
Flint:
Duster:
Kumatora:
Salsa:
Boney:

Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria:
Alicia:
Rufus:
Dylan:
Lezard:
Arngrim:
Leone:
Brahms:
Hrist:
Lenneth:
Silmeria:
Freya:

Archers:
Heavy Warriors:
Light Warriors:
Mages:


About this session: The nature of VP2 means that the Einherjar are such that differences aren't major between each job sans a few exceptions, as well as lots of split pathes and attacks aren't as obvious in their uses on paper given the Active Battle system.  Rather than me subjectively picking the exceptions, rate the Einherjar based on class, in addition to which, if you want to rate a specific one for whatever reason (be it good, bad, or just kind of weird), feel free to write them in.  Just remember that someone needs 5+ ratings to be considered official, so if you rated and I didn't list it, that'd be why!  Don't let that discourage you of course; rate *insert random Einherjar no one cares about here* all you want!

[Dark Holy Elf]

Furret is not Strengthing better than Donphan I'm pretty sure (Phanpy I definitely give you) and I'd definitely rather have the bulk anyway.

It's extremely close; the damage can basically be considered equal (depends on how much stat exp you get... if you go by DL stat topic assumptions, Furret comes out fractionally ahead). STAB matters that much. Since Furret has +40 speed and much better TM compatibility I'd call it a better pokemon, though durability still makes this at least vaguely debatable.

Graveler's Magnitude outdamages Donphan or Sandslash Strength (while being of a type which is much more useful than normal), and it gets STAB rock as well (certainly more effective than their rock moves as such, and doesn't need a TM or level 34 either). It does have worse speed than either, granted, although how much that matters with how slow they all are is debatable. It looks even better prior to evolution where Geodude doesn't just have better attacks, but better stats as well (also rock typing is almost purely positive early... lots of flying, bug, and normal). Once you do get the Earthquake TM I'd agree with you that Golem would be needed to stay ahead... but that's very late.

[Nitori]

Lucas: 8/10 skillset
Flint: 7/10 dad power
Duster: 5/10 only one good leg so only 5
Kumatora: 7/10 p. good benefits from overlevelling
Salsa: 2/10 my favorite monkey
Boney: 3/10 dogecoin

[Dark Holy Elf]

Alicia: 7.5/10. Heal is a very handy skill to have. Light warrior attacks are also nice for tying up enemies and keeping the combo going, but normally not nice on damage... so Alicia having actually adequate damage is a welcome boon. You could bench her but I see little reason to do so. If consider Valkyrie to be her then she crushes final boss like a bug.
Rufus: 7/10. His later attacks are really good, and he gets some pretty handy buffs. Merely solid for much of the early and midgame, though.
Dylan: 6/10. Hits hard, has HP.
Lezard: 2.5/10. VP2 mage. He has an okay skillset but the damage is so awful and you can get the spells other ways.
Arngrim: 5/10. Seemed kind of underwhelming, but not bad.
Leone: 4/10. Light warrior, not as good at it as Alicia.

Lategame/SG people are difficult to rate. I'm trying to rate mainly on maingame here, but I can't bring myself to penalise these people for their narrow availability because if you do the SG they do have a lot of it. YMMV.

Brahms: 6.5/10. Nice stats there, Brahms.
Hrist: 6/10. Good, needs the SG to be great though.
Lenneth: 8/10. Alicia plus more or less? The availability makes her hard to rate.
Silmeria: 5/10. Only so bad an archer can be, but there's no real reason to use her either.
Freya: DNR?

Archers: 7/10. Archers are great, able to output loads of damage (or add status), and there are great ways to twink them even further. A number of them even have some handy menu spells as well, and their HP isn't bad like you'd expect.
Heavy Warriors: 5.5/10. They provide HP and decent damage, but archer damage tends to end up better in practice and they're harder to combo with.
Light Warriors: 4/10. Light warrior, not as good at is as Alicia.
Mages: 2.5/10. They have some spells but their damage is awful and the HP is poor too. Why bother when Alicia/Rufus/Lenneth cover all the spells you really need? Compared to Lezard, most of them at least get Heal (which he manages to miss) but their stats are a bit worse, whatever same score works.

*Phyress: 8/10 for innate Psychosoma + starting with some amazing attacks. Other archers do catch up to her with time (and Rufus eventually passes her) but that start is hard to forget. Figure that's worth a bonus point. Maingame MVP? Sure why not.