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Author Topic: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!  (Read 141587 times)

Cmdr_King

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #1150 on: October 09, 2014, 06:06:31 AM »

Lost Odyssey:
Kaim Argonar: 5/10
Seth Balmor: 6/10
Jansen Friedh: 3/10
Cooke: 4/10
Mack: 3/10
Ming Numara: 7/10
Sarah Sisulart: 7/10
Tolten: 3/10
Sed: 5/10
Gongara's Pumps: 16/10.  I'd f me.  f me so hard.
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #1151 on: December 12, 2014, 11:34:39 PM »
Lost Odyssey:
Kaim Argonar: 8/10. Immortals are obviously good, Kaim has HP for days, smashes things in the face, and can get various utility.
Seth Balmor: 8/10. Kaim version faster but less durable (still stupidly durable).
Jansen Friedh: 4/10. He's okay, he gives some spells to better people and you move on.
Cooke: 4/10. Ehhh see Jansen more or less. Her spells are slightly better but her stats are slightly worse? I think?
Mack: 3/10. Definitely felt his spells were worse than those of the above.
Ming Numara: 7/10. Mage with better stats/skillset.
Sarah Sisulart: 7/10. Ming with somehow less ridiculous fashion sense.
Tolten: 2/10. I don't remember him having much use at all.
Sed: 6/10. Best mortal, lots of useful stuff and it doesn't all bleed instantly to the better PCs. Felt like an easy choice for a fifth PC late.
Gongara's Pumps: Amazing Grefter Rants/10

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Meeplelard

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #1152 on: December 24, 2014, 04:02:50 AM »
Lost Odyssey:
Kaim Argonar: 8/10.  Tank with good physical damage, and the way Lost Odyssey is structured, tanks are a legitimate thing.
Seth Balmor: 8/10.  ...yeah, she's Kaim with a bit of stat adjustments but ultimately used in the same way.  The stuff she's better at she's not better at in a majorly significant way, and she's frailer but still "way more durable than everyone else so who cares."
Jansen Friedh: 4/10. If you want a 3rd offensive mage, he's alright for the job, and allows for more accessory slots, but ultimately he's replace-able.
Cooke: 5/10.  I find healing more valuable than offensive magic, and she has the charge time skills which allow Ming and Sarah to be considerably more effective, so she's got use outside of that.
Mack: 2/10.  He's meant to be a fighter mage but doesn't really do either well, and his support skills aren't worthwhile enough to put a character for.  Ming/Sarah can cover that angle if you really want.
Ming Numara: 7.5/10.  Nukes battlefields, and has plenty of MP for healing!
Sarah Sisulart: 7.5/10.  Is identical to Ming in every-way sans the SLIGHT BIT OF INTELLECT ADVANTAGE! ...which is a pure numerical one and not actually relevant. I guess Ming technically has availability advantage for a brief instance, so we'll say those two meaningless advantages offset one another.
Tolten: 3/10.  His unique gear is really good! Not in his hands mind you, but you do need him to get your immortals to use those items.  That's about the only good thing I can say for him.
Sed: 6/10.  Huh, a Mortal that actually feels like he pulls his weight and not so easily replaced by an Immortal?  Yeah, clear 5th Slotter.
Gongara's Pumps: 6829/2839.  I can't justify this value, but it feels correct.
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

Meeplelard

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #1153 on: December 30, 2014, 06:56:19 PM »
Update is coming tonight.  Yes, this is way overdue, and I apologize, but thought I'd make the courtesy "LAST CHANCE" post before just updating out of the blue.
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

Meeplelard

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #1154 on: December 31, 2014, 02:15:17 AM »
AverageSTDEVA
Kaim Argonar
7.30
1.30
Seth Balmor
7.60
0.89
Jansen Friedh
4.10
0.89
Cooke
3.90
0.74
Mack
3.50
1.32
Ming Numara
7.10
0.22
Sarah Sisulart
7.10
0.22
Tolten
3.10
0.89
Sed
6.00
1.22

Full Cast Standard Deviation:1.85


We finally move onto something...that will probably not be too popular?  Whatever, I'm doing it anyway, because reasons!

Phantasy Star 2:
Rolf Landale:
Nei:
Rudolph Steiner:
Amy Sage:
Hugh Thompson:
Anna Zirski:
Josh Kain:
Shir Gold:
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #1155 on: December 31, 2014, 01:27:34 PM »
Rolf Landale - 9/10. One of the archetypal overpowered mains, even though I feel his worth gets somewhat inflated due to the general power level in your party being so questionable on average. Regardless, he packs uniformly good stats, the best equipment, the best magical damage, best defense-subject physical damage and even decent variety for when it matters (Ryuka and Hinas are so fucking good for cutting down on pointless travel time and Rever, dear god, Rever. Healing is pretty trivial, though, storebought items and Gires itemcasts are all you really want for that in-game). You'd never want to make a party without Rolf even if he wasn't forced.

Nei - 6/10. Well, early on, she's quite good - game-best offense and speed for the first couple dungeons and your first healer at the point where you actually want it. As the game advances, she becomes steadily worse, particularly durability-wise (though always retaining solid offense and speed) until she dies. But she's never actually -bad- while you have her, so being good early and middling later nets you an above average score.

Rudolph Steiner - 7/10. Entirely ST and packs absolutely no variety, but solid ITD damage all game long is a valuable niche and so is the durability in a game like PS2. Also a staple in the party throughout, and being the first party joiner makes a huge difference in this game as well - no catch-up yakkety sax required.

Amy Sage - 2/10. She's pretty bad. TP-based healing in Phantasy Star 2 is a huge waste of time due to being vastly outresourced by items even before Gires itemcasts kick in and she has an awful equipment/status loadout to bear (sketchy durability and game-worst speed ON A HEALER, guys). Her defensive buffs would be largely useless even if they weren't almost all glitched - only Deban is worth the time, and you might as well not bother running off someone who pretty much always goes last. She's even the only PC to get MT healing, but it's so overpriced and underpowered you're better off using Star Mists. The only time when she isn't appalingly bad is in-between Uzo and Climatrol -if- you happen to steal a couple Fire Staves at Piata's equip store (since they're pretty potent weapons for the time you can first get them), but it's pretty telling that those are Amy's -best- weapon throughout the game. She's even an early joiner, and this seriously matters in PS2 where EVERYBODY JOINS AT LEVEL 1, but holy crap.

Hugh Thompson - 3.5/10. On join, he's about as bad as Amy across the board, but his skillset builds into something remotely usable (at least, Vol's decently early)... then you hit the Dams and he becomes utterly useless due to nothing he ever has working on mechanical enemies. This remedies itself to a degree once you finally hit Dezolis, but biological monsters are always less threatening than robots, and his stat spread's even worse than Amy's (though equipment is better). From the Nei dungeons onwards, Savol rules the universe (surprisingly accurate MT ID that nothing immunes in a game with randoms as nasty as PS2's? Man, I care), but that's frankly too little, too late.

Anna Zirski - 5/10. Mostly about fast crowd-controlling offense, which is nice... but bad durability on a frontline fighter sucks and her slashers are hugely defense-subject (for instance, she's terrible against most mechs). What keeps her as a staple slot is being the best candidate for Snow Crown spamming in battles due to her speed - free MT damage halving is awesome and Rolf's turns are way too valuable offensively to make him the prime spammer. Also, the first of the late joiners, which is a slight hit against her.

Josh Kain - 6.5/10. Almost as bad against biological creatures as Hugh is against robots, but man, is he -good- against bots, who are the most dangerous enemies in the game. Adequate stat spread too, and from the Nei dungeons onwards, his skillset works on everything. His ID doesn't become MT like Hugh's and is less accurate, but he gets so much more offense you honestly don't care. Late joiner, but he's worth the hassle.

Shir Gold - 1.5/10. Simply appalling. Last PC to join, sporting stats comparable to Amy outside speed and Amy-level equips and a horrible skillset build. Only thing you should ever use her for is stealing the Visiphone to make the game remotely bearable, pocketing a few Star Mists and Moon Dews and maybe some midgame weaponry if you care as well.

What an unbalanced cast.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2015, 11:49:15 AM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
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[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
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DragonKnight Zero

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #1156 on: January 03, 2015, 05:45:37 AM »
Something I've actually played.  Yes.  I finish the game with Rolf around Lv 30 and the others around 24-26 and my ratings will reflect such.  So no "Shir has good damage because she learns Nazan" here.

Rolf Landale: 9/10  High stats across the board and the strongest attack magic.  He also has high Agility to act as an emergency healer with Gires.  As if being flat out better than the rest of cast at just about everything wasn't enough, the strongest bladed weapons are exclusive to him and he has the fastest EXP curve out of everyone besides Nei.  He'd still be a solid pick/shoe-in even in that imaginary version where he wasn't forced into the party and didn't have level advantage favoring him like in-game.

Nei: 5/10  Hits stuff and generally does it well thanks to high Agility and weapon strength.  Lags in damage at Nido and on high defense enemies.  Her utility fills the healer niche well enough for the time she's available.  She does OK on defense in practice relative to everyone else though naturally is weak in that area relative to a party loaded up on ceramic armor.

Rudolph Steiner: 9/10  Consistent defense piercing damage and durability unmatched by anyone besides an endgame Rolf toting the Neisword and Neimet: Rudo brings little else.  The fact that his damage on endgame bosses is only exceeded by Rolf and Kain (and Rudo doesn't require TP) really helps out for long dungeon crawls.  Choosing not to take him leaves someone vulnerable to freak deaths.

Amy Sage: 3/10  Deban halves all damage and is invaluable for getting past Neifirst without needing to spend hours grinding for equipment.  She also has passable TP growth (in a cast average of awful) to serve as an out of battle healbot in the early going.  Gires equips and Snow Crown effectively replace her later on.  Her only really unique lategame contribution is Anti, saving a few slots that would otherwise be occupied by Antidotes.  Gameworst speed on top of weak equipment options and the slowest EXP curve in the cast give little reason to recommend her.  Her Nei equip options save her from gameworst equipment status, that "honor" goes to...

Hugh Thompson: 3/10  The first thing that comes to mind for me is gameworst armor draw.  Statwise, he's very similar to Any; he trades some TP for slightly better base Defense, Agility, and HP.  Skillset wise, he only has a few contributions I feel are worthwhile.  Sagen has it's uses in the first third of the game on larger packs.  Doran has a high hit rate and effectively halves the damage output of any enemy that only uses physicals (dragons come to mind) if for some reason one doesn't choose to kill them outright with Vol/Savol.  The utility of his instant death on Dezo is straightforward; on high defense + high HP enemies, he can take them out faster than Rolf.  He actually has a decent TP pool to use his ID with too.
Somehow manages to be the best 4th slot pick for Mother Brain at my levels; his 40 damage Gifois contribute more damage than anything the ladies have at the levels I beat the game at.  Still, weak durability and agility as well as being useless for the middle third of the game leads me to pull his rating down.

Anna Zirski: 5/10  is the worst character without slashers.  Once she has them, clears randoms like no one else but is hugely gimped against high defense targets.  May as well pretend she doesn't have techs too.  Low defense tends to not matter too much; she loses no damage in the back row and every multitarget enemy attack ignores defense anyways.

Josh Kain: 5/10  Well, a large portion of his skillset either has accuracy issues or is obseleted by Storm Gear.  His really potent offense takes large amounts of TP to power too and he doesn't seem to have as much as I'd like.  Still easily the top choice to accompany Rolf and Rudo in beating Mother Brain.  And hey, he has no need to reserve TP for healing or utility so it's less of an issue if he does blow all his TP along the way.

Shir Gold: 2/10  Visiphone makes the game "hard" instead of "painful."  Once acquired, she can sit out the rest of the game without the player missing out on anything important (Nagra comes too late).  Compared to similarly leveled characters she has excellent Agility and competent Defense (3rd behind Rudo and Rolf)   However, she has very little to channel her speed into.  Furthermore, her strongest weapon is a Laser Knife due to a bug with the Laconia Dagger so her physical damage stops improving earlier than anyone else.
  Besides her Agility, her stat and magic distribution comes off as a wannabe Rolf.  She'll pick up most of his tech list, but at higher levels.  Her defense is better than the other companions but not as good as his.  She also has much less TP to use her magic with so she runs out of steam faster.  Also she has a fast EXP curve though again, slower than Rolf's.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2015, 02:39:55 AM by DragonKnight Zero »

DjinnAndTonic

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #1157 on: January 03, 2015, 10:36:50 AM »
Sweet, Phantasy Star II. Cast balance is probably the most fun thing to note about this crazy flawed game. :3

Rolf Landale: 9.5
Nei: 7
Rudolph Steiner: 8
Amy Sage: 3
Hugh Thompson: 3
Anna Zirski: 5
Josh Kain: 6.5
Shir Gold: 1.5

Random Consonant

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #1158 on: January 07, 2015, 04:57:51 AM »
We interrupt your rating of PS2 to catch up on rating a cast from a much better game

Bravely Default (Hard mode):
Freelancer: Some quality of life stuff, Ise-no-Kami being good in C1, and Mimic existing late for people who care elevate it above existing, but otherwise lol.  3/10
White Mage: Yeah I dunno how you justify lower than a 9 here, even with the bad offense.  BD's not a game where you want to do without a dedicated healer and WM's skillset is pretty much the best at it, though maybe Salve-Maker could pinch hit if you hate the class and refuse to use it or something.  Never mind that Angelic Ward is pretty good and that there's worse things you could do than dip into the class for Staff Lore for randoms since those actually have a period of goodness for physical classes.  9.5/10.
Monk: Well Iron Pole (or that free C3 Diamond Staff) Crescent Moon is pretty good at efficiently dealing with C3/4 randoms, and Monk does have both good STR/AGI and a natural S in staves, so that gets you above Freelancer.   Still, it's not like that's particularly hard to replicate, and the class kind of blows before then, doesn't have a whole lot to offer, and is straight-up outclassed after.  4/10.
Black Mage: Well they slap things around in C1 and could be worse in C2 but past that they just aren't that cost-effective compared to other options.  Doesn't really help that BD stacks the deck in favor of fighters so Spell Fencer ends up doing what BM does better anyways for less MP to boot.  Pierce M.Def helps but it only feels worthwhile with Meteor and it's too little, too late there since you have better ways of dealing damage by then anyways.  But since you're not really going to be making a competitive mage build without this, 5/10 works.
Knight: So yeah, two-handing, it's pretty great.  Stomp's also good in C1/2, and it has some pretty good stuff to offer later down the line too.  7.5/10.
Thief: Well those speed boosting passives are nice, I certainly noticed not having them in places before I went to get them.  Past that uh they can use bows I guess.  Better game for stealing than many but I'm not overly impressed there.  4/10.
Merchant: Exists.  More money is nice, but it's attached to Freelancer-level stats (aka ewwwwww) and a fantastically worthless skillset until JL10.  2/10.
Time Mage: So yeah, speed instability kills on Hard and TM goes a fair ways at helping with that and Meteor is the other piece to the make mage damage competitive late puzzle.  Too bad about the class doing pretty much nothing for offense by itself until then, Earth hitting weakness on practically nothing = who cares.  6.5/10
Spell Fencer: So yeah, like I said, Sword Magic ends up doing the BM thing better for cheaper thanks to the system and it's pretty front loaded on when it gives you the skillset to boot (seriously, you get Lv5 Sword Magic before JP reqs start skyrocketing and you might not need even that much).  Adding weakness hitting, status, or draining to pretty much everything good that's physical?  Yes please.  7.5/10
Ranger: They uh use bows.  Species weakness hitting I guess but they miss humans and you do better for crystal bosses anyways so why care.  4/10.
Summoner: Exists.  Slow mage class that's bad at hitting weakness until most of the way through C3, pretty inefficient against most bosses even when they can hit weakness, and gotten when you're not far off from Crescent Moon anyways so who really cares.  Class is pretty much a dead zone for support abilities too.  2/10. 
Valkyrie: So yeah, Crescent Moon, it's pretty great, the class starts with it and it's MP-free physical MT and it's like at least half of the class's worth.  Not really worth the same score as Knight/Spell Fencer since the class doesn't really offer anything else that's impressive but really being able to chump a bunch of C3/4 formations for relatively little effort and expenditure, particularly on Hard where allowing randoms to get turns at that point is inadviseable, is worth at least an average score by itself, and you really could do worse for a midgame physical carrier.  6.5/10.
Red Mage: Well the BP-related passives are cute and have some application.  Otherwise, *flush*.  Having two skillsets for the price of one is only worth something when both skillsets are good and the BM side is pretty bad by the time the class comes.  3/10.
Performer: So yeah, MT buffing, it's pretty great.  Being able to dole out BP to someone else when you don't need to buff is also pretty great.  There's not *much else* but who cares, the skillset could be attached to a complete deadzone of passives and Freelancer stats (which admittedly it is very close to) and still be an 8/10.
Pirate: So yeah, debuffing, it's pretty great.  Gamebest STR and Axe Lore are also pretty great.  Durability isn't that great but whatever.  7.5/10.
Salve Maker: Why yes I would like double MP recovery.  Ultimately not as good as WM but can make it better and can do its own thing in places too.  6.5/10.
Swordmaster: Uh.  Physical carrier that revolves around counterstances, whoo hoo.  Free Lunch is good, but come on, you gotta offer a bit more than that when your skillset involves that much hoopjumping to make serviceable.  3.5/10
Ninja: Hello cheese.  Hello not much but cheese.  6/10.
Arcanist: Holy crap those are some lopsided stats.  I guess Status Amp has amusing implications against bosses but attached to such a dead zone I have difficulty caring.  3/10.
Spiritmaster: dat skillset.  Oh yeah Holy One is ridiculous for healing too but mostly dat skillset.  9/10. 
Templar: Well they have some nice passives at least and there's certainly far worse than Rampart, but aside from those things who cares, outclassed by Dark Knight which comes a dungeon later and wouldn't be that great even if that didn't exist.  4.5/10
Dark Knight: So yeah, never mind.  Good stats on the physical end, great skillset, good weapon/armor affinities, good passives, exceedingly trivial downsides, this is basically everything good.  9/10.
Vampire: So this is kind of weird because that dragon sidequest exists and at best you get the class a dungeon before Dark Knight and on the surface it emphasizes randombusting when that starts to be not very useful.  On the other hand it's far from a lost cause against bosses (worse than Dark Knight but WHAT ISN'T) and carries some pretty nice passives to boot, especially that last one, what the fuck 50% autorevive for 1 SP, so yeah, can't really justify a below average score and I certainly can't justify a 1.  5.5/10.
Conjurer: A mage carrier class with a skillset that poor obtained that late?  Yeah no.  1/10.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled ratings.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2015, 09:28:40 PM by Random Consonant »

Meeplelard

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #1159 on: February 14, 2015, 12:28:20 AM »
yes, I'm falling behind, I'll update this by next week.  Why not tomorrow?  ...because reasons!

Phantasy Star 2:
Rolf Landale: 9.5/10.  He's merely decent early game, but yeah, text book broken main character.  While arguably going overboard, he's a prime example of a forced main character slot that doesn't feel like a burden just based on that alone.
Nei: 6/10.  She's alright due to her level growth, getting weapons good enough to work with, and having some basic healing...the issue is though that because she's forced, she does hurt the usage of characters in the 2nd half where she's not available.
Rudolph Steiner: 7/10.  Tank with ITD damage, which is valuable against the common high defense enemies.  He's pretty much the only character who can come close to competing with Rolf in stats, though he lacks the skillset.
Amy Sage: 4/10.  I think she's better than people give her credit for, but yeah, she gets her important stuff too slow.
Hugh Thompson: 3/10.  Vol is really all he has going for him, and when he's out of TP, you're better off with anyone else.  He's also useless during the Dams section.
Anna Zirski: 5/10.  Slashes are nice, Shift is alright, could be worse.
Josh Kain: 5.5/10.  He's basically Hugh except his stuff works on things you care about, including having high damage for the last few bosses.  Loses half a point for joining late in a game where everyone joins at level 1.
Shir Gold: 1/10.  Gets you the Viziphone and...then is completely worthless!  Also she joins stupid late; there's literally no reason to level her above 10 because after that, she can steal all worthwhile stuff.
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

Excal

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #1160 on: February 16, 2015, 04:52:37 PM »
I'm curious to see what others have to say, but reading after ranking.  Warning: the following impressions are about a decade old.

Phantasy Star 2:
Rolf Landale: 10/10
Is either the best or near the best at everything.  Technically forced, but since there's no scenario where you wouldn't want to be using him, it's hard to tell.

Nei: 6.8/10
She's not all that good.  However, she levels fast, and she's your healer in the early part of the game so she stays competitive.  Near the mid game she starts to peak and then fall behind, but she has the good grace to leave before she becomes a lodestone.

Rudolph Steiner: 9/10
Docked a point for having no healing and no flavours to what he does.  However, what he does do is tank like a boss and pack the second best damage in the game so he doesn't really need a second dimension.

Amy Sage: 9/10
This game is a grindfest, and what you need for a good grindfest is a good healer with tons of reserves.  She doesn't do anything besides heal, but you've got three other people to do the killing so she can focus on keeping them alive to kill.

Hugh Thompson: 1/10
Honestly, I tried using him, got nothing, and stopped doing so.  I hear he's ok on the first half of the game?

Anna Zirski: 5/10
She's fast and hits MT with her physical.  Has a few useful techs as I recall.  But honestly, she's just there to drop items and add in the chip damage when Rolf or Rudo fall short.

Josh Kain: 1/10
Someone I have heard is kinda useful on the second half of the game.  Given that I had already settled on my party and levelled up long before his day in the sun arrived, he never got off the bench.

Shir Gold: 1.2/10
She gets you access to the improved Save function.  That is all.  Granted, this is freaking huge in this game, but you get it, and then you bench her never to be seen again.

Meeplelard

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #1161 on: February 21, 2015, 05:23:36 PM »
Updating Tonight

[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

Meeplelard

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #1162 on: February 22, 2015, 03:52:49 AM »
Yes, it took me forever, and yes the next one probably will too, and yes, it's entirely the fault of the person who makes first post using the letter Q after this post...
AverageSTDEVA
Rolf Landale
9.4
0.42
Nei
6.16
0.79
Rudolph Steiner
8
1
Amy Sage
4.2
2.77
Hugh Thompson
2.7
0.97
Anna Zirski
5
0
Josh Kain
4.9
2.27
Shir Gold
1.44
0.38

Standard Deviation: 2.62

And now onto something vile and evil.  Something that was made by hands of demonic forces that you would not believe is made by something.  A game...that is made by Ubuisoft...
I mean no offense to Child of Light, to be clear; don't take the line above to mean anything other than Ubisoft is awful.

Child of Light:
Aurora:
Rubella:
Finn:
Norah:
Robert:
Tristis:
Oengus:
Gen:
Golem:


-Gplem is the DLC character, I haven't played the game so I looked it up, and could be mistaking but yeah.
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

SnowFire

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #1163 on: February 22, 2015, 07:47:42 AM »
Child of Light:

Played on Expert mode.  Like FFX, the free switching + lots of weakness hitting makes the cast as a whole feel a bit above average, as you can switch in the most useful person for any situation, then switch 'em out when their niche isn't needed.

Aurora: 5/10.  Y'know, fewer enemies than you'd expect are vulnerable to Light.  On the bright side, the few enemies who are are among the most dangerous enemies in the game, like those wraiths that revive their allies, and her magic boom is okay...  if it resolves.  Light Ray path really not worth it, the casting times are long enough as is for a marginal damage boost, but her normal attack magic in Starlight is fine.  So situationally good.
Rubella: 6/10.  Tanky healer, her damage problems are irrelevant since swap in for someone else.
Finn: 7/10.  Aurora with better element draw and slightly better damage anyway thanks to Rage of the Capilli.  Probably MVP of the regulars?  He hits weakness a whole lot.  Crippling MP problems in theory, but that just means you use him every 2-out-of-3 battles before a level-up refills his MP.  MP is more of an issue in boss fights, but eh, spend the turn to toss an item, then.
Norah: 8/10?   Depends on how you grade temps, of course, she isn't around for long.  But...  she's overlevel and has just generally all-around above average stats.  That wouldn't be that special, except she has a great skillset draw.  Petrify & Petrify All have a fantastic added effect to her damage, and Lull / Lull All are totally awesome, and it gets even more wacky when stacked with her Haste.  CoL is more about enemy debuffs than party buffs due to how often you shuffle your party.  Debuffs felt rarely punished (for all that the boss Norah fights does in fact spoil her to a degree with dispelling counterattacks to strip her Haste...).  If she was available endgame, I'd definitely have still used her.
Robert: 5/10.  Reminds me vaguely of Aht in Radiant Historia in that his gameplay is interesting and uses the game's system, but isn't actually particularly amazing from a strict power level perspective.  All of his trees are useful, but he can only get so much.  Easy, fast-resolving MT attacks are solid though vs. randoms, Hinder has its place, and the crit rate is amusing enough.  I used him a lot, but eh.
Tristis: 3/10.  LVP.  I practically never used him.  Take your choice: a worse beater than Oengus but kind of vanilla & bland, or some buffs that are not in general worth your time.  Haste was great in Norah because she could have already set up Lull and thus made her turns cheaper; it's less useful here, especially if your target gets chunked down and needs to switch out.  He's not horrible or anything, just why bother.
Oengus: 6/10.  More reliable version of Robert for your physical beater.  Hits harder when not critting, is tankier, still has some MT physicals, and throw in some random instant death for fun.  He's pretty good.
Gen: 6/10.  Gen has exactly one purpose: to beeline Paralyze & Paralyze All, then switch in and cast just those.  Her poor stats means the rest of her skillset might as well not even exist, but as far as one-trick ponies go, this is a pretty broken one trick.  If you're feeling a tad lame, you can probably even do Spellbinding Eye-esque loops where once you resolve one Paralyze All, you throw MP-restoration at her and let her lock down bosses forever.  But she's just fine to pop into final dungeon randoms and paralyze 'em and let everyone else clean up, then wait until she's gained a level for an MP-recharge and do it again.
Golem: ??  I did actually get the DLC, but Golem is designed around being recruited very early and joins right after Rubella at ~L12, and I actually bought the DLC & recruited him in the post-game, assuming he'd come with some ME2-style quest.  Nope.  Hard to judge, but he looked like an Oengus remix, so probably decent.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2015, 06:40:44 PM by SnowFire »

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #1164 on: February 22, 2015, 05:35:16 PM »
Child of Light:

Hard Mode here as well.

Child of Light's a game in which you only have two PCs on the field at once, but you can switch out dead PCs (unlike FFX, which makes a big difference) and dead PCs get full rewards. This means in a hard fight it's better to let most of your PCs absorb hits, die, and get swapped out for free (it's less economical to revive them) until you run out. And on Hard Mode, the hardest fights are indeed balanced around doing this. Also, almost every difficult fight (including bosses) is built around three enemies, and once you can take down one, you've done most of the work towards winning. (Especially due to the fact that the fewer enemies are remaining, the more you can wreck them with your pet firefly.)

Aurora: 5.5/10. Only two PCs can deal magic damage, and there are plenty of enemies who spoil one damage type or the other. This inherently puts mages in higher demand despite their kinda crappy stats. Light's not a wonderful element but it's decent enough and hey nothing resists it specifically at least.
Rubella: 6.5/10. Her healing's far from overwhelming but it can keep pace nicely in the second stage of the battle when one enemy is dead and you're just powering through with your 2-3 remaining PCs. And hey, she's reasonably speedy, and Counter Heal is shockingly good for shifting momentum in your favour, as it's essentially a free action when it kicks in.
Finn: 7/10. See Aurora comments; they pretty much all apply here (good, valuable damage type, mediocre stats). Finn hits a few more weaknesses and is more damaging at base, hence the better score.
Norah: 9/10. Lull All is completely ridiculous and the part of the game I had it was made pretty damn easy. Its action ecomomy is nuts. Against three enemies, it's "trade one Norah turn for 12 enemy turns" which is freaking insane, and enemies lack the offensive punch to overwhelm you while slowed ever. Frankly she doesn't need anything else, but free chance of paralysis on her damage moves and good speed are nice bonuses.
Robert: 5/10. Haha Hinder is so much worse than Lull/Lull All, you might say it's actually balanced or something. And it's still his best move! Also does some damage at least, so yeah, and he's fairly fast. Nothing else especially good about him (his MT physical is too weak to really impress, never mind that I liked ST damage more in this game anyway), but that's good enough for a decent score.
Tristis: 3/10. Since you only have two PCs and you often want to switch them (and/or they'll die), buffs aren't really that great in this game. This makes him clearly the LVP, although he's obviously a functional one.
Oengus: 7.5/10. He has like... 40-50% more HP than the next best PC for much of the game? He can usually take 2-3 extra hits and this is invaluable as every PC represents a punching bag the enemies need to get through. On top of that, he can protect other PCs with Taunt + Defend, and has the best physical damage in the game (both ST and MT), so however you want to use him with those turns he'll do good. MVP of the non-temps, although I can see going with Finn, yeah.
Gen: 4/10. Ehhh wasn't that impressed with paralysis. It's cool and all, but... again, every CoL fight worth noting features three enemies, so ST paralysis being "trade one Gen turn for two enemy turns" isn't really that special when the enemies get 50% more turns than you at base. Admittedly I didn't get Paralyse All, which sounds much better and might give her a higher score. I'd need to look at how practical that is to get quickly, and how good it is. And I'm lazy
Golem: STAB Earthquake and Rock Slide are pretty cool, bad speed and weakness to ground and water are problematic but its typing is so good otherwise in-game that I'm not too bothered- wait, what?

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #1165 on: February 22, 2015, 07:27:59 PM »
Aurora: 5/10 feels right. Even though Aurora sports game-worst stat draw, having magic in a game where there are a lot of specialized defensive spoilers -and- where magic deals the highest damage is nothing to scoff at. This said, specializing in a single element is bad mojo even when it's not resisted by anything in-game (Aurora inherently hits far less weaknesses than Finn and this is very noteworthy), and she has both poor base speed and problematic casting times. The physical path is mostly a trap - Aurora can't ever use physicals nearly as well as her magic.
Rubella: 6/10. Early on, Rubella's healing is invaluable and she has oddly decent healer stats - good speed and okay durability, mainly, looking openly solid defensively for the first third of the game or so. Late in the shuffle, I used her mostly for fast cancels, but even so, you'll find a place to slot her MT healing and cheap, fast revival in. 
Finn: 7.5/10, a decent portion of this score being propelled by his stellar endgame. Being one of only two mages in a game where hitting magical weaknesses is very important and having game-best damage is very useful as well (Finn scores OHKOs nobody else can, and shutting an enemy down immediately is highly in-demand in CoL). The bad stats keep him balanced, but his elemental variety and Rage of the Capilli alone make Finn a pretty strong contender all game long. In the endgame, where everything is weak to Lightning, going the full Rage of the Capilli path pays off immensely and makes him the clear MVP for that section.
Norah: 9/10. Holy crap, Lull/Lull All is completely nuts. Norah doesn't even need anything else, but she even gets good stats and Haste/Paralyze to make her draw even more appealing. She's pretty much responsible for making the game rather easy for the time you have her.
Robert: 5/10. Hinder/Hinder All is horrendously worse than the Lulls and yet it's quite a good niche to have. Decent speed to pull it off along with acceptable physical damage doesn't hurt either. Too bad it's not -that- great either, and you frankly want your MT damage to be magic in order to bypass the odd evasion or hit weaknesses more easily. Still, not really bad.
Tristis: 3/10. He gets Tumble All more easily and faster than Rubella and he has good speed on the offensive and also great defensive stats. His buffs just aren't too useful, though, given the nature of CoL fights, and he offers little in-between those casts. Not a good way to fill half your active party roster. He probably would be better if the game allowed a third PC in the front row.
Oéngus: 8/10. Quite solid. Very good durability and gets a way to make proactive use of it in a game where you -want- to divert hits for multiple reasons. If that wasn't enough, he has the best physical damage in the party by a far from negligible margin (even if Robert catches up on Strength due to stat-boosting items, he'll stay behind due to Oéngus' superior power on his moves), both ST and MT. He and Finn steal the show at endgame as the MVPs - slap a Lightning elemental gem on Oéngus' weapon and watch them both MT sweep everything in the Sea Palace.
Genovefa: 4.5/10. Beelining for Paralysis All is pretty much how you make Gen useful - that's a way powerful skill if you can get it that far. However, the surroundings just don't impress and she lacks the resources to spam it properly. Bad durability and offense also keep her from looking more attractive as well.
Golem: Can't properly rate him either - I bought his DLC, but I got him in the endgame when he was balanced to be gotten just after Finn. This said, his set looks like a mishmash of Oéngus tanking and Genovefa's time juggling shenanigans, which looks honestly good on paper. But I won't assess that without actual empiric testing.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Random Consonant

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #1166 on: February 22, 2015, 07:43:57 PM »
Child of Light:
Aurora: Light mage.  This is somewhat worthwhile since you only have two mages ever and enemies will routinely mock either physicals or magic and Light is never resisted but at the same time she still feels like the worse of the two.  5.5/10
Rubella: Fast but otherwise not terribly impressive as a healer on any front.  Perfectly workable given the limited item draw in the game but since the healing items are also pretty potent I can't say I value it that highly.  5.5/10
Finn: So yeah mage with more than one element to draw upon and he hits harder than Aurora to boot.  7/10
Norah: She is pretty ridiculous for the fairly short time she is around yeah.  8/10.
Robert: Solid on a few fronts but not really standout.  5/10.
Tristis: Revolves around buffing in a game that revolves around party switching and only has two PC slots.  To be honest I think I'd rather just use items.  2/10
Oengus: Oh yeah this guy, has HP for days and hits like a truck, even has some means of making use of that durability WHAT A CONCEPT.  7/10
Gen: Paralyze All is good in theory but practically speaking you need to beeline for the the higher level versions to justify using it since it has a very long cast time in a game where everything cancels and it guzzles her bad MP like mad so really you can just say it's actually balanced or something.  Past that though she just doesn't have much going for her and the game is almost done by the time she joins to boot. 4/10
Golem: really super annoying as enemies due to their obnoxiously high class defense but i can't really see using them ever because--wait what?

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #1167 on: February 22, 2015, 11:04:19 PM »
Child of Light:
Aurora: 6. I felt like hitting Holy weakness was pretty useful myself, and never having your best damage resisted is a perk.
Rubella: 6.5. Decent healing, great interrupter
Finn: 7.5
Norah: 8.5. Awesome skillset and stats.
Robert: 5.5. Yeah, little bit worse than Aurora for me. The speed on some of his techs hurt when they are about slowing the enemy down.
Tristis: 2. Just literally no point. Felt like they split up Norah's skillset between him and Robert, and he clearly got the shaft.
Oengus: 7.5
Gen: 4
...into the nightfall.

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #1168 on: February 22, 2015, 11:47:36 PM »
Child of Light:
Aurora: 6. I felt like hitting Holy weakness was pretty useful myself, and never having your best damage resisted is a perk.
Rubella: 6.5. Decent healing, great interrupter
Finn: 7.5
Norah: 8.5. Awesome skillset and stats.
Robert: 5.5. Yeah, little bit worse than Aurora for me. The speed on some of his techs hurt when they are about slowing the enemy down.
Tristis: 2. Just literally no point. Felt like they split up Norah's skillset between him and Robert, and he clearly got the shaft.
Oengus: 7.5
Gen: 4

Looks pretty right.
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Reiska

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #1169 on: March 05, 2015, 04:58:05 PM »
Belated, but Phantasy Star II ratings from me.  Ratings are based on the Genesis version exclusively, though I'll make a few comments about the remake too.

Rolf Landale: 9/10.  He's certainly good, but he doesn't get particularly absurd unless you're overleveled (both of his really good tricks come at higher levels than you should ever reach).  His biggest flaw is lack of ITD damage outside of magic, and his TP pool, like all PS2 TP pools, is really quite limited and there are decent stretches of game where Rudo can match or exceed him in ITD without the TP costs.  I do agree with the consensus though that Rolf would be in the party even if he wasn't forced.  He feels a bit worse in the remake for much of the game - non-ITD damage has gotten slightly worse and his TP pool isn't particularly better; on the other hand, Megid is actually better than in the Genesis version and you probably actually learn it this time around so the endgame payoff is bigger.

Nei: 6/10, pretty much agree with Snow and Meeple.  The remake makes her a shitton better all around for the expected reasons, with a better tech selection, better damage, better basically everything (and, of course, endgame-class equipment she didn't have on Genesis), but she still lacks ITD, so I'm not sure how much it really means in the end.  And if you *do* do that subquest, you're stuck with her.

Rudolf Steiner: 9/10.  High and free ITD damage and gamebest durability.  He doesn't do anything else and he doesn't need to.  Nothing about him changes in the remake at all, either.

Amy Sage: 2/10.  Amy really has a limited shelf life as a PC; her only real use is pre-Neifirst when you don't have the Snow Crown to itemcast the one spell that makes her usable.  TP-based healing sucks, game-worst speed, 2nd worst durability, and you don't need MT healing enough to care that she has it.  In the remake, she's more useful (I would say "required") in the pre-Snow Crown game, but falls off just about as quickly once it appears, so no real change.

Hugh Thompson: 3/10.  Too many stretches of the game where he's useless, and too many stretches where, if he is useful, he's still not more useful than someone else.  Plus he has, ultimately, gameworst durability.  Savol IS pretty fantastic lategame, but the amount of suffering to get there is kind of not worth it.  For some reason, though, Sega saw fit to make him possibly the gamebest PC in the remake (yes, even better than Rolf) with a quick-charging (fastest in the game!) limit break that paralyzes all enemies with extremely high (possibly 100%?) accuracy.  And nothing immunes it, not even bosses, so you don't particularly care about all his other deficiencies.

Anna Zirski: 3/10.  The good is that her physical attack is MT and does fairly decent damage at base.  The bad is that it isn't ITD and her tech list is essentially nonexistent, so when she needs ITD she's reduced to itemcast spam, and her physical isn't *that* much better than itemcasts most of the time.  She's an excellent Snow Crown spammer; while she's not actually the best at Snow Crown spamming per se, the other candidate has a host of other flaws that might (okay, probably will) make you consider Anna over her.  Notably worse in the remake; as I said on Rolf, non-ITD damage got a bit worse and this hits Anna a lot harder than it hits Rolf, plus her limit break in the remake is the gameworst one.

Josh Kain: 7/10.  Rudo that trades some of his free ITD damage and durability for the best magic offense in the game, and lategame it works on everything, so cool.  Not much else to say, and the remake doesn't change him in ways I find especially relevant.

Shir Gold: 3/10.  Slightly faster than Anna on average, so she's the other Snow Crown spam candidate.  Slightly less damage output than Anna - she's always reliant on itemcasts, as opposed to just sometimes being reliant on them.  Because her best offense is itemcasts, you can equip her with two emels without worry, giving her surprisingly high durability (only really rivaled by Rolf/Rudo/Kain).  I actually prefer using her over Anna, as Anna ultimately ends up being mostly just an itembot and Shir has better durability than her and itembots equally well.  Joining later is a legitimate downside though, and she can be annoying if you forget to save before entering Dezolis shops.  In a game with less itemcast offense, or where ITD mattered less, she'd be clearly worse than Anna, but PS2 isn't that game.  She also gets some credit for the Visiphone.  In the remake she's clearly better than Anna (she actually gets weapon upgrades late-game and her limit break is one of the better ones).

DjinnAndTonic

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Re: Rank Characters based on In Game Use: Reboot!
« Reply #1170 on: March 06, 2015, 09:08:20 AM »
Child of Light:
Aurora: 6. I felt like hitting Holy weakness was pretty useful myself, and never having your best damage resisted is a perk.
Rubella: 6.5. Decent healing, great interrupter
Finn: 7.5
Norah: 8.5. Awesome skillset and stats.
Robert: 5.5. Yeah, little bit worse than Aurora for me. The speed on some of his techs hurt when they are about slowing the enemy down.
Tristis: 2. Just literally no point. Felt like they split up Norah's skillset between him and Robert, and he clearly got the shaft.
Oengus: 7.5
Gen: 4