A memes to an end(Meme Mafia: Game Over)

[Asuka Langley]

We're on 72 hour days, so I make it 34 1/2 hours to deadline.

I had assumed Commie's statement regarding Duck Roll v2 not seeing !Cake's claim was to do with Rick's case against 2g1c, which at that point most recently referred to 2g1c's case on !Cake, since retracted. Not that you can't still make the case that Rick then made anyway, but I don't think it's odd of Commie to think it odd of Rick not to react to it at all. Of course the rather more relevant related issue is that Rick made this argument with no reference to 2g1c's claim, but that's not what you're after here.

[Margaret Houlihan]

Hm, I'll admit, I completely forgot about 2G1C's claim. Guess there is a problem with Astley's posts today, then, albeit quite a minor one.

Still, the fact that we have over 24 hours left just serves to emphasise one argument on Soviet Russia. Accusing Milhouse of herding town early in D1 then doing the exact same with Astley in D2 is hypocrisy at best and downright scummy at worst. After 1.5 days of bad/scummy play from Russia, it'll take something major to change my vote from here.

[VySaika]

I have recently been informed that XBOX has lost internet access and Milhouse is AFK for the weekend. I've already gotten a volunteer to replace XBOX, so I'll tag the replacement in now.

Milhouse wil be modkilled for inactivity if he hasn't posted by day end.

Also, about 34 hours remain in Day 2.

[Margaret Houlihan]

And Bel Air?

Also, for flavour:

(Picture is link, click plskthx.)

[Nathan Greaves]

Okay, there are seriously too many people who haven't posted anything today. Milhouse? Xbox? Bel-Air? Where are you people?

Soviet Russia still seems just too ridiculous and out there. What I don't like is his misrep of my post:

Cake post give uncomfortable Trotsky vibes.  Death of comrade never inevitable, and ees very capitalist to speak in such terms.

Why is this? Understandable if I bawwwwed about Dawg's death, but saying that I feel the o9k lynch was still a good idea?
Also his 'Cake eez bad but case on Hotness eez good' point. Still, I can't validate his D1 play in terms of scum.

Actually...why did 2g1c feel the need to declare being roleblocked? That's a question I'd like to ask. It's effectively a softclaim with no evidence behind it and it makes little sense as Town - it's basically screaming 'Hey, scum, you guessed right when you assumed I was a role! Now go ahead and hit me!' I'm wondering if there's too much of a free pass going around.
Her analysis of Astley's song is also horrible misrep. He outright says 'scum want to keep jokevotes hot. 9000 is not keeping jokevotes hot.' Why does that come out as accusing 9000?
##Unvote: Shana/Shiki, ##Vote: 2g1c
Cake doesn't come in that flavour ;_;

Not buying the case against Astley. Declared intent to hammer, he's been misrepped for voting Soviet...not convinced he's worth lynching today.

Xbox...iiiiiis no longer relevant for his lurking since he's been replaced. :| Same with Milhouse. Bel-Air has no excuse.

[Helga Pataki]

Actually...why did 2g1c feel the need to declare being roleblocked? That's a question I'd like to ask. It's effectively a softclaim with no evidence behind it and it makes little sense as Town - it's basically screaming 'Hey, scum, you guessed right when you assumed I was a role! Now go ahead and hit me!' I'm wondering if there's too much of a free pass going around.
Her analysis of Astley's song is also horrible misrep. He outright says 'scum want to keep jokevotes hot. 9000 is not keeping jokevotes hot.' Why does that come out as accusing 9000?

"Already covered the goddamn song, already explained how I read it. Already explained that wasn't the main push for the case, as this was indeed explained. That you missed this makes me wonder if you are actually reading my posts, but since I've been poor on that, pot calls kettle black here. Regardless, -the high profile lurking through day 1 and the hammer vote- were the main pushes, neither of which were elaborated. The hammer vote has been explained. The high-profile lurking still aggravates.

"And as for the roleblock? Uh, what, you want me to not inform town that there is a roleblocker? When I have this information given to me? And in a role madness game, you're accusing someone of softclaiming because... they were roleblocked? In a role madness game? This reads painfully like trying to push me to actually -claim-, and the only reason my vote isn't falling back onto -you- is because of that little claim of your own, which I'm wondering isn't just a scum play to try and pull the damn second NKer out themselves.

"Information is a necessity for town; I had the information that I was roleblocked given to me; I gave this information to town. To call this scummy is incredibly dense and- You know what? Putting my money where my mouth is. This may sound OMGUS, but with the arguments you've made against others and against me, I cannot any longer believe your NK claim, and even if it is true I do not believe you are town."

##UNVOTE: Rick Astley
##VOTE: The Cake Is A Lie

"Shana: I already elaborated multiple times, but the basic breakdown is high-profile lurking, the hammer (which has been explained some, to my appreciation; this is part of why I'm willing to drop my vote on him to move it to someone who has been acting very poorly thus far, !cake's own claim aside) and at this point his content today (defending himself against me in prime, touching on the Russia case/hueg XBOX case, continuing on Milhouse (points for consistency there, at least) and... overall he impresses me poorly, but less so than he did before.

"Astley: No, I'm afraid it quite cleanly is contradiction. He said he wanted to avoid people having an excuse to not vote Zerg Rush in the first example referenced, and then said he was afraid of the case growing too big in the second. Looking at the two the attitude toward the Zerg Rush train does not match up at all. While I pity his claimed concerns about the train being between Zerg Rush and Scummiest on Zerg Rush train, that was nowhere present during that first post, and retrospective claiming there doesn't slide too well with me. Also, I don't click Youtube links. Thanks, though.

"Mostly AFK for a while again, may be able to sneak a few quick responses in as I'm sure people will no doubt have issues with my vote on !cake at this point. But with the suspicious behavior I outlined earlier and the prodding here, the claim does not cut it any further."

[Princess Leia]

Well, my predecessor's presence has been smaller than a Gamecube. Hopefully I can turn this account 360 degrees and start producing something useful.

I'd initially be looking at Millhouse, because he gives me the same feeling as the cake described getting from lolcats - not memorable even as a lurker. But looks like the mod's on that one.

Suspicious of 2g1c. Posts on day 1 felt very empty, then there's a dramatic shift as people start calling them on it; obviously I can't have it both ways, but to shift so effortlessly makes it seem like the day 1 style was a conscious choice. Also, too frequent apologies for low presence. Life happens, and obv. telling us beforehand is less suspicious than just disappearing, but it feels like every other post had a "will post more later". Which is nothing solid, but  more defensive than I like.

This morning I would have said that Soviet Russia was more useful alive than dead; suspicious as hell, but not actively harming town, and is at least posting; and while I shouldn't be swayed by this, I appreciate the consistent flavour and so-bad-it's-good Lenin joke. But having thought about it some more, I dislike the muddying the waters in http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100154.html#msg100154, which is even more blatant now I look back at it. The refusal to either claim or deny responsibility for the killing meshes badly with the day 1 claim that this game made town more powerful at night. Obviously unprompted roleclaiming would be bad, but this kind of fuzzy hinting can only hurt town. So ##Vote: Soviet Russia, and I want a more concrete statement of what, if any, position you're taking on town role power.

That's a lot of negative, so I should probably give some positive views too. Touhou hijack I find to be consistently posting insightful, well-reasoned stuff which I find myself nodding along to... which makes me suspicious. I can hardly accuse insight and reasoning of being anti-town, but it's putting hijack in a position to direct the discussion, which would be bad. Of course this goes without saying in this game, but we need to be wary of blindly following anyone. Advice dog is similar but to a lesser extent (which makes their endorsement of Touhou hijack... odd, but less odd if they're town than if they're scum); fortunately, their ability to uninterruptedly WoT overnight means we'll already be on guard against letting them control anything.

Lurkers are obviously bad (and I'm kind of in a poor position to complain about them, but through no fault of my own. (I could argue that letting yourself drop out is something town are more likely to do than scum, but that makes dropping out and getting replaced a legitimate tactic for scum who really want their side to win, and I don't want to go there)); as the dog had it, none of them particularly stands out, but it's a good place for scum to hide in. Shiki is looking the towniest of anyone to me right now; I think he has a point, WIFOM or not, lolcats' flip and vote does shift the percentages on soviet russia a bit. (How much, I hear you cry? Well look where my vote is. But it does make him a little less likely to be scum)

Post is approaching HUEG enough, and I don't have a lot of visibility on anyone else (other than the two with claims out, whom I'm temporarily assuming clear). Will reread and look closer, particularly at C-C-C-C/dawg (initial impression: dawg comes off worse for overreaction, but I haven't read closely enough to take a solid position yet). Hopefully this gives enough of an idea of where my opinions are now.

[Princess Leia]

Correction: one with claim, BWIM !cake. How I managed to forget the roleblock claim was 2g1c's I don't know; apologies. Makes them less of a good lynch candidate for now, I guess; I'm still suspicious (and it's convenient timing. And a softer claim than !cake's), but it makes it better to wait and see.

[Helga Pataki]

"'Convenient'? It was made as the first post of the day for me, and before any attention actually fell on me outside of Touhou. How is that convenient timing, if you could elaborate?"

[Princess Leia]

Ok, further opinions. Zerg Rush: abrasive, and the claim that it was flavour sits poorly with me; I don't think a zerg rush in any way requires rudeness, and even if it did I'm not sure roleplaying should extend that far. But rude =/= scum, and I see nothing to claim scum on; not as much content as others though. Rick has less against him but the same need to post more; fortunately, he seems to be aware of this.
AyB: meh. Can't get a solid read on him; slightly more suspicious of them than the above two. Dawg likewise.
Demotivational Poster: less erudite than many, but is posting good content. Definitely on the townier end.
In summary, a whole lot of nothing, which is pretty much what I remembered. Good hiding place for scum, but they can't all be scum.

2g1c posts, and... has a point; first post of the day is a less suspicious place to make that claim than any later one. You're right, it's not the timing of your post that's convenient so much as the claim after the first night; you can and do cheerfully avoid giving any kind of grounds for why you were picked, which you wouldn't be able to get away with later. Also, Hijack was making a case against you, and given that Hijack is about as respectable a player as we have at this stage, you could've expected to come under more scrutiny, so I don't think the attention is as unexpected as you make out.

[Helga Pataki]

"Because saying anything else would have been rather pointless? A roleblock does not mean the targeted person should roleclaim, it just means they were roleblocked. Doing anything more than that is disadvantageous; while the info -might- help town, it also would help scum, and that's something town should avoid. Simple enough, no? And as for why I was picked... uh. How would I know that? Answer: I don't. I can't. That's a really goddamn weird line of logic to make, unless I misread you, Mr. Box.

"Sure, Hijack was making a case on me. No one else seemed to even really care/notice that I existed, which I admit my day 1 play merited; I had issues reading those posts and thus mainly just focused on the few cases and data I could follow. Regardless, one vote on me was hardly worrisome

"Also, uh. You realize Dawg (as opposed to Dog) is dead... right?"

[Princess Leia]

And as for why I was picked... uh. How would I know that? Answer: I don't. I can't. That's a really goddamn weird line of logic to make, unless I misread you, Mr. Box.

No one else seemed to even really care/notice that I existed, which I admit my day 1 play merited;

Indeed you don't know why, and you don't have to. You're claiming roleblockedness when you admit there is nothing in your play to merit it, and you can get away with that in a way that would draw too much scrutiny if you tried it later in the game.  (Of course, if you really are town then you can't help when it happened, so it's nothing to come down on you too hard for - it does provide information, after all. But it means it clears you less effectively than it would later on)

"Also, uh. You realize Dawg (as opposed to Dog) is dead... right?"

Gah, another stupid mistake. I really thought I'd been paying attention to this game, but evidently not enough. Seems an odd choice for NK, but I don't think that thought leads anywhere.

[Margaret Houlihan]

While I don't really see the case against 2g1c from Xbox, the content is definitely good on the whole, and pushes it far ahead of some of the lower ones, like AYB or the other two absentees. Russia's still the worst by far, and I'm guessing will be until I check back tomorrow, which won't be too long before deadline. (I should be around an hour or two before deadline, but not on the deadline itself. AGAIN. Argh.)

[Nathan Greaves]

"And as for the roleblock? Uh, what, you want me to not inform town that there is a roleblocker? When I have this information given to me? And in a role madness game, you're accusing someone of softclaiming because... they were roleblocked? In a role madness game?

Besides the fact that the claim is already a heaping WIFOM in itself? Unless anyone happened to watch you last night, no-one knows there's a roleblocker for sure. We only have your word on it.

Also I'm sort of unimpressed by your tone. Zerg got called out D1 for being overly unfriendly, and I'm seeing your posts as being rather aggressive. Could you at least let the calmer half of the pair talk once in a while?

As for not keeping perfectly up to date, I apologise for not being able to get into the game as much as I would have liked. I don't want to drop because that'll only make things worse, and at the same time we've already had to call on a replacement for Hueg. So sorry if I'm not being helpful or fluent, but last I checked a living Townie was never less useful than a dead one.

[Tanaka]

Apologies for the lack of presence, went to visit my father only to find out his computer exploded, just got back and am pretty tired, going to take a nap and hopefully have something after I wake up.

[COMBO BREAKER]

##Unvote: X-Box

Now that they're around... the case on 2G1C is... odd logic. I don't think that it's an auto-pass on the day, but at least it's coming out swinging from lurkertude instead of a soft return like yesterday. I would say he's still worth looking at, especially should we get 2G1C's alignment.

Russia: I don't think that the hammer auto-clears Rick. But it's enough to at least reconsider pursuing him over other lurker cases. At this point though, seems like scum scrambling for a position after barely surviving yesterday, especially considering his flip-flopping and odd stance on Astley/2G1C.

##Vote: Soviet Russia

Unexpected interruption. More later.

[Asuka Langley]

(note to self: put more effort into these pictures, or you'll just turn Advice Dog into extreme Twitter)

But yeah, what madness have I returned to?

!Cake and 2g1c, the two with claims to at least delay the need to lynch them, at each other's throats! Honestly guys what the hell. It makes perfect sense for 2g1c to claim to have been roleblocked, especially in a role madness game where scum gain little to nothing for knowing of the block. Really guys, you need to back off each other for now at least. You especially, 2g1c: I can at least understand why !cake might still chase you if !he was quite so strong against you (although really, !his case is bad), but !cake's claim has utterly sealed !him and I could not be more firmly against !his lynch today, short of bonus information. These two lines are almost certainly the two worst possible ones to go down today.

Don't like the other lines against 2g1c regarding the claim. Do I really need to explain why I think it's clear that the claim should deflect anything but the reddest of hands at this point?

Was about to call the mod out about the lack of a Boxed Air mod kill warning and start wondering about the potential of a silencer again. Even better, I get ninja'd by the very person as I type the very paragraph. Great.

Big Black Box gets an upgrade, which I guess makes it the XBox 360. Never like the concept of replacements, but rather sooner than later. Not especially thrilled by what I'm reading. The Hijack is so townie it's suspicious? You know, it's one thing to be sensible and on guard to everyone, but you've crossed the line there by even suggesting 'too townie to be townie' (as opposed to, you know, finding actual faults with active players). Thought it might just be a cautionary tale, but no, you take this and say that someone else looks better.

Bad arguments on the Commie are becoming a dime a dozen. The latest one being from XBox 360 for [not] claiming the extra night kill, in what was blatantly a theme related joke. Which is apparently the key thing you have against him. Plus you're kinda-sorta pushing an actual rolefish there. And arrgh, another opinion that lolcat on the Commie warps the Commie's odds of being scum. Do not want. Bad bad bad bad bad. Do not focus on the last point.

Poster: Commie's case on Milhouse was effectively that he was trying to form a dichotomy on o9k and Commie too early in the day, which would be scummy if true. This is not at all the same as Commie's attempts to drum up attention on his lynch candidate today.

Not sure why I've suddenly become the Commie's PR dog, but these things happen.

CATS have now been gone for well over 24 hours since 'proper post coming, brb' as well. Awesome sauce.

I should probably rethink my exact positions based on all of the recent developments, but at a quick stab I'd say my top three are -2C > CATS > XBox 360. Should re-figure where Rick falls in all of that, settle down and see if my gut reaction on XBox 360 is overreaching, and then Boxed Air is a nightmare enigma to fit in anywhere. -2C and CATS top the list for today regardless.


Ninja by -2C: wait what. I call you on setting up a simple lazy delayed vote and your response is... to... do exactly that? Don't give me anything about how it clearly isn't worth being on XBox 360 now, because that's the thing - there never was a point in being on the box.

[Margaret Houlihan]

Does anybody have any motivation at the moment? If it hadn't been for Soviet's hypocrisy, I'd've pretty much given up this day through tiredness.
Anyways, really not seeing the case against 2g1c. Day 1 content was low, but that applies to a lot of people, and D2 has been pretty good.

Combo ninja: ...and that's the easy switch mentioned earlier. ugh. When there is scummy play around, LaL is not the way to go, and this shows exactly why.
Ninja Dog: Okay, I see the point, but I still don't like the "We must DEFINITELY LYNCH HIM NAO" attitude when more than 36 hours remained. Still seeing a strong case against the Soviet, personally, although Combo's climbing that list very quickly. I'm hoping for another response from Soviet sometime soon and, assuming nothing else changes, will probably decide my lynch based on how good that is.

[Princess Leia]

Thought it might just be a cautionary tale, but no, you take this and say that someone else looks better.

Wasn't what I was trying to say; I do think the hijack quite towny, which was why it's in the paragraph it's in. I just want to make sure there's no risk we start collectively outright trusting it.

[not] claiming the extra night kill, in what was blatantly a theme related joke.

Looking back I can see that reading. I took it as more, and a significant "I neither confirm nor deny X" is about as unhelpful as it gets. I'm sure the commie will understand I don't want an actual roleclaim; I just want it to clear up what it's actually trying to say.

Ninja'd by the demotivator:

Anyways, really not seeing the case against 2g1c. Day 1 content was low, but that applies to a lot of people, and D2 has been pretty good.

That's exactly what I find suspicious; there's been a huge shift in gear, and 2g1c wasn't simply not posting on D1, but rather posting with low content, so it's not simply a matter of not being able to get to a computer or whatever. Of course not 100%, but it's the best case I can see right now. (Why isn't my vote where my mouth is, I hear you cry? Answer: I think we'll learn more from commie at the moment, and I still think his behaviour is enough to justify it).

[Li Syaoran]

@Advice Dog: back now, posting now. Patience.

[Zerg Rush]

KEKEKEKEKEKEKE!

Things that are not helpful:

1. Apologies.
2. Statements that you can't get into game as much as we'd like.
3. Excuses for presence to anyone who is not the mod.

Let us see a little less of all three.

KEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKE!

In regards to Soviet, while I can understand the imperative to make sure lurkers don't get away with lurking, focusing in on them over scummy behavior is just strange to me. Especially when you add in that little tidbit about "look, look, I'm totally right!" Yes, lurkers are bad, but focusing in on them can do next to nothing for town as well for a variety of reasons. At the very least, spending time looking back on the people you didn't like and dredging up either support or a breakdown of your argument WHILE PURSUING LURKERS would be very useful. Just sort of scattershotting and then latching onto a lurker? Not so much. Attacking lurkers is fine and good, but if you spend too much time looking at people who aren't doing anything, then you're going to get blindsided by the active scum.

So let us make sure this is 100% clear. Pursuing lurkers is fine, but I still, even after hearing from you, dislike the fact that you didn't put effort into digging up more substantiation on the people you thought looked bad, and the slight tinge of directing people away from looking for active scum doesn't sit well at all for me.

KEKEKEKEKEKEKEKE!

Looking back on All Your Base, there are several things about his posts that do not sit well with me. Day 1 content, although it looked fairly big (a lot of words to be said), it isn't as much content as it actually looks like, which is never particularly good. The big thing that gets me, though, is the "scum wouldn't play that stupid" argument, because once you start thinking that way, you've pretty much already lost to WIFOM. Similarly, he indulges in this again in Day 2 with the lolcat/soviet vote. There are actually very good reasons to push on a scum bus train when there is a simultaneous town train! Massive cred, provided you can make the right arguments. And, of course, the classic "I'll post shortly" followed by disappearing. Utterly useless, slightly suspicious but a decent smokescreen. Want to see this promised post.

KEKEKEKEKEKEKEKE!

Advice Dog: Could you do a chattering horde of insectile beasts a favor and post just a quick, condensed, cliff notes version of your argument on -2C? I'd appreciate it.

KEKEKEKEKEKEKEKE!

[Alice Margatroid]

Right! I got some time and a l'il alcohol in m'system, let's get some shit done 'ere.

That big box over there, he's got nothin' worth praisin'! What're you non-Dog lunk'eads doin' goin' all "oh that's some good content there"? Points offa Demotivate for that, and some offa Combo Crusha too for lettin' that sway him! He's suspicious of the two girls for puttin' more effort inta Day 2 than Day 1 an' the Ruskie for not not claimin' properly! Whazzupwidat? Puttin' more effort into Day 2 than Day 1 ain'a scumtell, ya got more info to work with on Day 2 so a'course you'll be makin' better cases! The Ruskie accusation is jus' awful an' is made even more awful by attachin' a vote to it, but Dog's alreddy gone ova' it, no need t'repeat what he said. The two girls have also done a smashin' job takin' his later arguments against 'em to task.

Then he says Dog an' I are suspicious because we're posting stuff he likes! Wahahaha! What a load! "[Dog's] ability to uninterruptedly WoT overnight means we'll already be on guard against letting them control anything" doesn't even mean anythin'! "Tryin'a lead discussion" is a bad accusation anyway. I'm postin' cases for people to see 'coz I want people t'see 'em an' agree! That's the whole bleedin' POINT of makin' cases at all!

Afta' that is a whole buncha nothin'. Talks about how lurkers are bad, makes some useless statement about replacement WIFOM that I c'n only barely wrap m'brain around, says Shana looks good to him but doesn't really explain why. I'm thinkin' Shana is prob'ly town, too, but not because she talked about the dead cat's relationship with th' Ruskie. Hell, as long as we're goin' this route, Shana looks good to me too, but I can't be unfaithful t'my li'l Parsee, y'know? Wahahaha!

Then there's a buncha "post more"s at Zerg Rush, Ricky and CATS. I guess the box thinks talking about lurkers an' tellin' 'em to post more is CRUISE CONTROL FOR TOWN or somethin'! Well, it ain't. There's absolutely nothin' in all them words to make me think I should move my vote.

Now, back to them two girls. Zoggin' hell, what's with th' vote for th' Cake? If he didn't kill the cat, where d'you propose the extra death came from? If he did, why're you votin' for him? You're here t'hunt scum, not chase third parties around.

Whoa, buncha new posts in here! Lemme get this out and catch up on all them words.

[Princess Leia]

"Tryin'a lead discussion" is a bad accusation anyway. I'm postin' cases for people to see 'coz I want people t'see 'em an' agree! That's the whole bleedin' POINT of makin' cases at all!

Absolutely. But it's essential that they not be read uncritically. Which is perhaps too obvious to be worth stating, in which case I apologise for the waste.

I'm thinkin' Shana is prob'ly town, too, but not because she talked about the dead cat's relationship with th' Ruskie.

That's hardly my sole reason. It's just that I think she's right, and people have outright stated the contrary, without an actual counter-argument.

Then there's a buncha "post more"s at Zerg Rush, Ricky and CATS. I guess the box thinks talking about lurkers an' tellin' 'em to post more is CRUISE CONTROL FOR TOWN or somethin'! Well, it ain't. There's absolutely nothin' in all them words to make me think I should move my vote.

What can I say. You are, I fear, right; I haven't been playing great, but I've tried to press the best cases that I can see, and I've given my reasons. Volume alone isn't enough, but I'll be replying anywhere I can, and reading what I can into what everyone says. Hopefully sooner or later I'll spot something that makes me worthwhile.
(Contrary to that, it's approximately bedtime now; I'll hang around a little longer, but then back in eight hours)

[Alice Margatroid]

Wasn't what I was trying to say; I do think the hijack quite towny, which was why it's in the paragraph it's in. I just want to make sure there's no risk we start collectively outright trusting it.

That's not what "suspicious" means an' you know it. I don't expect everyone t'go "oh look at big strong oni over there we know oni never lie so we're going to follow her to th' deepest depth o' Hell" and I don't plan on takin' that stance on anyone else in the game, not even fellas like Advice Dog. I don't even expect people to agree with ev'ry single opinion I have, and I don't think anyone else is expectin' that either. This is nothin' but a buncha fearmongering.

Looking back I can see that reading. I took it as more, and a significant "I neither confirm nor deny X" is about as unhelpful as it gets. I'm sure the commie will understand I don't want an actual roleclaim; I just want it to clear up what it's actually trying to say.

Izzinit obvious? He's sayin' that what he said was a joke and not to read into it because he might or might not have been responsible. Askin' him to explain further is rolefishing (or would've been if not for the Cake's claim) because wantin' a claim of "the kill wasn't mine" just tells scum where not to look for the source of the second kill!

Answer: I think we'll learn more from commie at the moment, and I still think his behaviour is enough to justify it)

Please tell me this means somethin' other than "I'm votin' Commie for th' info his lynch'll give us", because that's how it zoggin' well looks t' me, and that's a terrible reason to vote for someone.

while I can understand the imperative to make sure lurkers don't get away with lurking, focusing in on them over scummy behavior is just strange to me.

I'm gonna let the Ruskie handle th' rest of yer post 'imself, but this needs outside addressin'. Read the oarfish's blabber about th' subject. Lurkin' and postin' nothin' meaningful when y'do post is scummy behavior and y'need to stop differentiatin' the two. Go back and look at the dead cat an' tell me what argument y'would've made against him that isn't "lurkin' an' not posting anythin' meaningful when they did post".

[Li Syaoran]

@Advice Dog: relax, here it is. I have many bases to manage to make sure that they all still belong to me, this takes time (in addition I was extremely tired yesterday and not feeling well, when I checked the thread 12 hours ago there was a complete lack of activity and I decided that leaving my post until after I sleep for a bit was alright...and then I wound up sleeping for 10 hours. I apologise to everyone for this.)

Do I really need to explain why I think it's clear that the claim should deflect anything but the reddest of hands at this point?

Yes, it's useful that they're letting town know that there exists a roleblocker, but at the same time, how does it clear them? Pardon me if I'm being blind or something atm.

@XBox: two issues I have with your post: A) I think you're reading too much into a very, very obvious In Soviet Russia joke. I don't think the Comrades there were actively trying to hint at something, rather they were making the painfully obvious joke and trying to further specify that it was, y'know, a joke. Second of all, not sure I am comfortable *at all* at the Too Townie jabs at both Touhou Hijack and Advice Dog. I mean what? Seriously? "They're posting good-quality, informative content that I often agree with, therefore they are suspicious"? Huh?

In general I'm not sure I agree with everyone that XBox's latest posts are good. Yes, there's actual content from them, which is a lot less than can be said about the older model 'box, but there are a lot of oddities among them. Bad arguments on the Soviets, random "too townie" statements, really strange case on 2g1c (I especially love the whole "oh how convenient that you claimed about being roleblocked N1, Hijack was making a case against you, and he's among the most respectable players we have here, yet at the same time he's so townie that I'm slightly suspicious of him myself". Something doesn't really add up here.)

C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!: um, what? How does Soviet seem like scum "scrambling" to save themselves? Furthermore, how does the hammer push Rick in front of other lurker cases, when as he said, he was willing to do it.  Granted, it is a bit weird, but I don't think it's enough to push him to the forefront - and this is beside the case that I don't think that D2 is the right day for a lurker lynch anyway. Dog does an excellent job stating why lurker pressure votes are, honestly, a bit dumb, i.e. your vote on XBox shifts off him immediately once he's back.

The one thing that bothers me about Soviet is his post here Six hours, and nothing, and you have free time, yet despite that you post...nothing really useful, instead of an argument as to why a lurker lynch is a good thing D2, and why Astley over other lurkers? This is...decidedly unsettling.

@Zerg Rush: honestly, you could argue that "scum wouldn't play this stupidly" is WIFOM. And it is. Yet at the same time, there are so many things that Soviet has done, so many, that are almost textbook blatantly-scummy. The D1 No Lynch post. The sudden shift to a vote on O9K. LAL today. Not really posting today about why LAL is good. Etc. Really, it is WIFOM, but...honestly, it just seems so over-the-top and so blatant that I'm not actually sure what to do with it.

That being said, the Soviets are starting to make me a bit queasy. However, at this moment I still thing that C-C-C-C and XBox 360 are better targets right now:
What unsettles me about C-C-C-C is general laziness and a lurker vote on XBox, which gets pulled off immediately once XBox 360 posts (posts something that's not really substantiative, really, for that matter), then a switch back to Soviet Russia without much proper caseing: while voting for Russia is not bad right now given his content quality, "vote now post case later" is really irksome, especially when the little justification you have in your post is just...what.

XBox 360, on the other hand, comes out of lurkersville to post...what is basically abject nonsense, with several things not adding up. What unsettles me further is a lot of people claiming this is good-quality content: I'm not seeing how it is, at all. In fact I think there's more of a reason for an XBox vote at the moment than before, as he's switched from being a lurker to being scummy: ##Vote: XBox 360.

This is still subject to change, I need to go over D1 again now that I'm not exhausted and mildly sick, I'd like to see Soviet come back, and, y'know, justify LAL as a strategy today, among other things, and I'd really like to see C-C-C-C post something substantiative, for that matter. Thankfully though I will now be actually around.