((Dispensing with flavor since it's late and I just wrapped up work.))
Pietro comes back with yet another vote on a popular case, Hellsnake, justified by
dubious reasoning. If Hellsnake is not paying attention to the game, then he's playing badly. That makes him bad town, not scum. We've been down that road before - just yesterday, seems to me.
Vote definitely standing on Pietro.
Although, oddly enough, he DOES make a decent argument against Hellsnake when he mentions the namedropping without accompanying argumentation. Why isn't THAT the crux of his argument? Well, it's in keeping with his continually attacking bad (weak?) play rather than Scummy play.
A clarification for those talking about the Bulletproof stuff?
I was the one who argued it wasn't useless once claimed. Clear a BP via other roles and you've got a confirmed Townie who can't die outside of LYLO, to give just one example. And with apparently no successful nightkill last night, we presumably have at least one other defensive role, which might have been able to combo with BP to make one or more nights invincible. It's useful in very specific situations, which are not apparent to a newbie, and it loses most of its utility when claimed except in those situations - which would make it a fucking stupid fakeclaim for a newbie like Callahan to make.
Anyway, that doesn't matter now except as it reflects on Pietro (and me), and it seems like people are getting mixed up who said what about it.
What Hellsnake ACTUALLY seems to do in the
post Pietro is voting on? The same thing he complained of Bike doing, voting in "chronological order," which he later explained meant stream of consciousness. Which... :sigh: again, dances the line between bad play and Scummy. The entire row between Hellsnake and Bike has just been one big facepalm on the Hellsnake side.
And yet, now that Hellsnake has moved on from Bike (for the wrong reasons, but whatever), he's...
... moved on to another apparent OMGUS.
::facepalm::
This one is more interesting, though. What Hellsnake says about Kyle/Sopko
here seems accurate to Kyle's case as he had
presented it to that point. And it IS a weird transition, dropping Bike that way.
(I'll note that Pietro never mentions this post, despite HIS vote for Hellsnake coming after it.)
I'll admit, Hellsnake's arguments still seem bad to me, aside from the spot on Kyle which is marred by the fact that its OMGUS. I just can't get out of my head that it could be playstyle, and the others I'm suspicious of don't have that excuse.
Kyle goes on to clarify his reasons for voting Hellsnake and not mentioning Bike
here. His arguments against Hellsnake are more in depth now, and clearly, and rightly call the snake out for OMGUSing and trying to excuse possible Scumminess with bad play.
He also explains why he didn't mention Bike. He only had one post, and there was the slowkill. Except Bike had only tossed out a very light speculation on the slowkill to that point, and he's never confirmed that's what it is to us (nor, for himself, with the mod - if we're to believe him). I... guess Kyle could choose to say nothing about his main, main target from yesterday, who his last mention of continued to express interest in lynching, and instead hie off on a new, easier target, all because of one throwaway line about flavor in said target's post.
Kyle's explanation after the fact COULD BE true.
But it DID come after the fact, only when promoted by a vote - even an OMGUS vote - and it seems like strange play from someone who was so aggressive the previous day.
I liked Kyle on Day 1, but now he looks Scummy to me.
Speaking of Moses, by way of
Jack.
I'm not sure I believe Moses's slowkill, Jack. Whether he's lying about it and Scum (or at least non-Town), telling the truth about it and right, or telling the truth about it and wrong... I just can't tell.
I don't agree that it's convenient, though. The people on Moses yesterday were Hellsnake (who is still in the frying pan for a mix of Scummy and bad play, and rightly so), Callahan (who played terribly and used a lot of INCORRECT meta in his votes, despite turning up Town), Kyle (who... initially inexplicably dropped the bad, to my mind, case... and anyway no one seemed to be listening to him) and Seamus (whose vote... doesn't seem very serious, to me, and certainly he never pressed it). Moses was under little to no MEANINGFUL pressure at the time he broke out the ruminations about slowkill.
Which doesn't make it true, of course, or accurate.
It should not, IMO, enter into our decisions regarding him in any way.
Ethan Hayles is
on my case. Perhaps I'm not the best to judge his case on me, since, well, it's obviously personal. Ronald Dale
addresses the same thing that jumped out at me about his post, namely that Ethan is crediting my analysis for turning him on to Martin and attacking me for going into too much detail. If I hadn't forced myself to go player by player, I'd have missed Martin, as he apparently did in HIS less formalized re-read since my reportage came well after Martin's sole "contribution" to the thread.
Ethan (et al), I can only say I had good reason to ask Moses about the source of his possible delayed kill, and good reason to not want Scum to know what that reason is if I can avoid it.
I was going to say that Ethan's calling me out for rolefishing is more valid than for reporting... but then it occurred to me - what role COULD I fish from that question? It certainly doesn't seem to correspond to any of the traditional Mafia roles.
Maybe I'm missing what a theoretical Scum!Hadley could have been fishing for, and it's clear to you and you don't want to say it for fear of giving it away. Fair enough. BUT. If I was rolefishing in an oblique way, surely Chad was doing so in rather more detail
here? In a post Ethan explicitly responds to? So I'm not even giving him a pass on that.
Overall, I think Ethan's original argument against me is specious and weak, and doesn't justify a vote over the two lurkers he called out. Not sure what to make of this, uncomfortable making ANYTHING of it because I'm not sure if my view isn't colored by OMGUS.
I also don't know if it reflects on Chad one way or another. He's dangerously close to Pietro-esque lurking at this point, albeit without the train hopping.
Currently, I'm staying on Pietro. Kyle/Sopko comes across badly as well due to his weird switch. Hellsnake? Gah. Null read trending toward scummy (mostly for saying how it's "just his playstyle" and we should forgive/forget it as a result), but if so I'd have to accept his being bussed this early in the day? Ethan seems scummy to me but I'll leave that for others to decide. Chad, and obviously our two absent comrades, aren't posting enough. Same goes for Dale, I suppose.
Personally, I do not care to vote for Hellsnake today despite finding him on the upper end of suspicious, just because he seems the most likely of the suspicious people to be so because of mistakes rather than Scumminess.
I'll wait for Word of Mod before I move on to Lynch All Lurkers on the Russian and Martin - besides, I think we have genuinely scummy people to pursue right now.
(P.S. Thanks to Sam Hargreaves for losing the heavy accent. SO much easier and more pleasant to read your posts now.
)
::dimensional shambler'd by Sam::
We haven't had a LYLO announcement. I don't believe the Mod is so bastard as to drop something like that on us secretly.
