Cthulu Mafia - TOWN (drunk) WIN, MADNESS SOMEWHAT AVERTED

[Bardiche]

Mei-Fan Chen;

On the matter of my alignment: Let's just say I have Town's best interest at heart and from the start of the game have targeted scummy targets because I wanted Town to win. I win with Town.

Now then. The results of tonight are as follows: Samuel Hargreaves is scum. He deflected my kill but not my Cop investigation which points to a decidedly scum result.

I was told someone had manipulated things from the darkness, but that I didn't care because I'd be out of this mess soon enough. Chrono Leaping isn't very interesting anyway: yes, I'm a time traveler and apparently possessed the body of Ronald Dale in what I can only assume to be a very mistaken experiment. I just hope that my depression will just make me return to my own time, in what is hopefully a peaceful resolution to the Marbury incidents.

I've figured out the meaning of November 1st as well: the last possible date for definitive and unequivocal LYLO to come about. So don't fear that date.

In summation:

Samuel Hargreaves returned as Scum to my investigative result. I was not informed of anything regarding role switching aside from the flavour mention that I have begun blocking out visions from that disgusting pigdog capitalistic freak Ronald Dale. (insults by yours truly and unrelated to flavour)
Whether that indicates I have lost my Vigilante Power or not, I definitely attacked tonight and definitely Copped Samuel as Scum.

PLEASE NOTE: I would also get Third-Party results and was explicitly told that Ronald Dale, my alter ego, is controlled by me and alignment would be inferred from ME and not my alter ego. I suspect this is the case with Samuel as well, so that there is little argument in his evil benefactor being Scum or some such and would suggest a course of action involving a noose around his neck and preferably a snapping sound to be solicited from his throat.

[Bardiche]

Mei-Fan Chen;

Let me also add that the following results were given throughout the game:

Peyton Hadley was town.
Pietro Giovanni was town.
Chad was DEFINITELY TOWN.
Kyle was town.

I have the guarantee of being neither a randocop nor a naive cop, but possibly sane, insane or paranoid.

Given that none of my previous investigation results flipped as scum I have reasonable grounds to believe my investigation is that of a sane Cop, and further the fact that Samuel had nothing hinting at becoming a Miller indicates he must've been scum all along. If he is: congratulations, I truly thought you were town and if not for this investigation would definitely not have called for your lynch.

I also saw no roleclaims for Miller for what it's worth, so yeah! I dunno if you're going to claim that now, though...

[Chiaki]

Well. Okay then. Either Bard's lying or Hargreaves is. The two claims aren't even remotely compatible, plus the whole scum result on Hargreaves thing. Very tempted to call for Hargreaves' lynch. I admit I'm wondering if maybe he could be telling the truth about the limitations on the role, which would make it almost believable, in this Role Madness game, for the kill to have been in scum hands all along. Only being able to target that #2 votegetter would keep them from slaughtering town with impunity, because they'd have to keep their own scummy selves out of that spot first. But two things don't sit right with that idea: first, why not kill on night 3? Obviously it wouldn't have done the scum any good, because Nikolai would come right back to life - but the only way they would know that is with a rolecop, and that leads me right back to Scum Hargreaves. The other question is how Bard would have used the power on Samuel "I got no votes at all yesterday" Hargreaves in the first place.

[Bardiche]

Mei-Fan Chen;

Samuel must have known he'd appear scum to my investigation. Or he was praying for naive Cop, I don't know.

I'm not limited in my killing as far as I know. And I know very little of it, given that my role is only Cop according to the role PM.

Whoever I investigate is attacked. I have no limitation as to who I investigate: I could investigate myself if I felt so inclined.

What I do know is that Hargreaves' actions make no sense from a scum point of view: why keep Nikolai alive given they knew N1 that he was a self-reviver? Was it for massive town credit, or something?
Why corroborate my story on Day 5? Did he misjudge his chances of lynching me or something? I'm not sure.

But my result seems fairly open to me, and nothing from Hargreaves' behaviour indicates he anticipated my result to turn up "scum". It's either a very well-played scum gambit, or a townie suddenly becoming miller without being told. Or, of course, he is told in mysterious flavour ways and Snowfire decided not to add that in which case I will ##VOTE: Snowfire.

Moses said Hargreaves knew scum's secret, though. And on being asked to reveal ALL flavour he just completely roleclaimed and gave all his results.

Curiously he withheld Nikolai's role. Why? He continuously hinted Nikolai had a useful role that was in town's best interest not to reveal, SO WHY DIDN'T SCUM KILL HIM? IT MAKES NO SENSE. WIFOM, yes, I know.

It's been bothering me all game and I'm sure it played into the consideration that Nikolai must be scum.

Yesterday it was potential LYLO, today is definitive LYLO. Had I actually killed someone, would I have caused the game to end? Would scum have won?

Is this why Hargreaves pressured me yesterday that I "will have to make a decision under quick pressure" and then suddenly Nathan hammers out of nowhere and effectively ends the day? I almost vigged Nathan tonight, but I decided to stick to what I had publicly posted I would do so as to not cause any confusion if something untoward would happen to me.

I don't know if I can vig tonight. But if we're lynching Sam and he turns up scum, I am very inclined to target Nathan.


However way you slice it I can't reconcile Sam's behaviour as strictly scummy, but it's not strictly pro-town in how awfully vague some things look in hindsight.

Not to mention Nathan immediately going for Sam "by process of elimination" at LYLO. Why would you do that unless you expected the Cop to get a scum result? It's more strange that Day 5 he says "Lol I'd lynch you BUT THANKS TO HARGREAVES I WON'T!" and then follow it up with "oh btw I think Hargreaves/Andrew is likely scumpair".

... okay, uh, no sense makey there.

In other words, yeah, wouldn't buy any Miller gibberish from Samuel at this point, not comfortable voting until everyone's weighed in and had a word about it.




And read this, to confirm that Andrews is going off the wrong end and that I most definitely did not have any restriction regarding my kill pattern. On Night 1, my target couldn't have been Peyton if I had such a restriction placed on me.

Whatever Samuel's role is, it's not mine, I do not believe it and I am comfortable lynching him today and hanging Nathan by the throat tomorrow.

The roleclaim timing was peculiar anyway. "Moses revives!" "LOL OKAY FULL ROLECLAIM and here's a Doctor/Reviver combo on top of our Reviver/Miller combo" "lol my reviver restriction is that I lose doc powers!" ... no.

[Chiaki]

You're right, I completely forget that Peyton wasn't getting votes Day 1.

Which makes Hargreaves look even worse, yeah. There's no way the killer was operating under those rules.

[Nathan Greaves]

"Well, Hargreaves, if you want reasoning, how about Bike's little riddle about you? 'Hargreaves knows scum's secret'? The only other thing I could think of that made sense for that was your rolecop of Nikolai, but now he's definitely with the Town I can't see any other way to explain it.

As for Andrews, well, he's been lurking a fair bit himself. Docproof is sorta awkward as a role - either there are scum non-docs who would obviously have priority in delivering the hit and therefore the role's pointless, or every member of scum's a doc and Andrews literally can't be killed by scum. Either way, the claim's slightly ridiculous. I already listed general suspicions of him Day 4, and not much has happened to make anyone else look significantly worse.

And Mei-Fan, I said back here that if Nikolai flipped Town, Hargreaves/Andrews was the only scumpair that made sense. Unless the forces above ((read: Snowfire)) are really screwing with us, you really are with the Town, and the same applies for Nikolai and Daniels. Plus you've got your facts wrong - it was Hargreaves who dropped the hammer yesterday, not me."

[Chiaki]

Regarding my role, I'd appreciate it if Nikolai would confirm my claim, seeing as he hasn't posted since calling me out on day 5.

[Tanaka]

Okay, I wrote this up last night after my last post so some of the information is a little outdated.

I am not at all surprised that Bard was the one chosen for the slowkill--he's the only one other than Nikolai (who I'm not even sure scum could have targeted last night) who was basically cleared from being scum, by virtue of the docfather role. (I'd say I'm basically cleared too but Hargreaves still trying to build the case on me yesterday indicates that I'm not clear to absolutely everyone, though I'll certainly go through that argument one final time if I must), and scum killing a non-confirmed townie at this point would have been really stupid and handed town the win.  So, moving on!

NATHAN GREAVES is almost CERTAINLY SCUM, and from where I'm standing almost CERTAINLY the person who revived our good friend Gershom/Moses/Jesus/Yahweh/Whatever. Yes, if I'm correct, scum revived town. Keep in mind that, Nathan knew that Nikolai was a rolecop, if an unreliable one.  Though this revival took place before Hargreaves took it upon himself to investigate Nathan, he knew that one rolecop existed, who could easily out the revivalist should he have revived a scum role.  Moreover, reviving Bike largely cleared Nathan for the next couple of days--just long enough to get us into potential LYLO, and had Nikolai not been a self-reviver, almost certainly have won the game for scum (I assume).  A gambit that paid off, if just for a little bit. UNLESS ANYONE ELSE (specifically, Kolmgorov and to an extent Mei Fan Transy) HAS A GOOD REASON NOT TO, ##FOS:Nathan Greaves that will become a vote to lynch when the time is right.

Hargreaves, now.  Hargreaves in 85% (Not Xanth here, just kind of estimating that statistic >_>) of all scenarios can't be scum--I have no reason whatsoever to doubt his rolecoppin' abilities (since they have been 100% accurate from what I can tell).  Assume he's lying to us just now, and instead of self reviver got back the result that Nikolai was a reviver--if he got that back and was scum, Nikolai would have been killed pretty dang quickly.  If he got that back and was town (which I don't believe since there's no reason to lie at this juncture as town), all the more reason to keep him alive.  Now, if Hargreaves got back self-reviver, as he's claimed?  As town, Hargreaves' explanation makes complete sense, especially since he was right and this revelation coming out now really did help town.  As scum?  Well, two scenarios there: One, Hargreaves knew that he'd only self revive on a regular kill--all the more reason to slowkill him.  Two (the much, much more likely one), Hargreaves only knew that he'd self revive, and had no reassurance that a slowkill would keep a dead dog down, as it were.

We come to that problematic 15%.  If Hargreaves only knew he'd self-revive, and didn't know the circumstances of that self revival... then that gives scum a really good reason not to slowkill. Why waste a kill and make things easier for town? It may also give Hargreaves a dang good motive for voting Ethan Hayles to get lynched instead of Kolmgorov, ESPECIALLY considering Kolmgorov's lurking was looking like it was going to get him modkilled (and almost assuredly not revived) at several points during this game.

Do I buy into this scenario?  Well... (at this point I've begun writing after reading what's happened) given Mei Fang's investigation coming back scum on Hargreaves? Given both of the pair were the ones who dropped the hammer pretty quickly together (less than 10 minutes within eachother)? Given Hargreaves was trying to build a case against a nigh-confirmed townie earlier?  Kinda. 

I want to do a re-read of Andrews (and go over Xanth's scumpair theorizing again), since he's the only one who could possibly be scum if Hargreaves ain't, and Bard's assertion's aside I'm not 100% on the whole Hargreaves thing.  I'm certainly sold on Greaves being scum, but I also don't like the killing power being potentially in scum's hands (if Hargreaves IS scum we have no reason to trust his "I can only kill the person with the second most votes" malarky).  However, I've got more pressing priorities at the moment, soooo yeah.

I'm very comfortable dropping Greaves like so much gravy, and depending on how looking back at Andrews goes I might be good with dropping Hargreaves as well.  HG certainly looks a lot scummier in retrospect but we're at LYLO and I want to be sure.

[Bardiche]

Mei-Fan Chen;

I really wish Bike had had the time to clarify if he could act on the night he "died"... it'd be sure nice if I could VIG THAT DESPICABLE NATHAN GREAVES tonight and we can lynch Hargreaves today and either saunter into a new dawn or uh, well, start praying to our new Overlord.

I don't think I need to re-state I hate Greaves' play this entire game and how I would've lynched him ages ago if it wasn't for revivalist role and the seemly sound "lol revive town" ability.

If HG+Nathan scumteam though, they knew Kolmogorov was a roleCop so possibly──not to mention it gave massive town cred, no? It seems a little too rehearsed, especially given that Hargreaves says Greaves is a Doctor, and Greaves triumphantly remarks he can't Doctor anymore! ... which I don't see the added value in.

Down with a Greaves AND Hargreaves lynch. Most comfortable with the latter due to lolCop, but the former due to LOLGUT and ARGUMENTS.

[SnowFire]

Votecount.

SnowFire [1]: Samuel Hargreaves
Samuel Hargreaves [1]: Nathan Greaves

Bard phrased his vote in the conditional, so I will ignore it as it turns on claimed hidden information that I have no intention of confirming nor denying.

It is Day 6 - October 31, 1928, Hallow's Eve.  It is LYLO, so there is no deadline.  With 6 investigators, it takes 4 to lynch.

--

"Looks like it's startin' to rain, dearie," called out the newly rejoined member of the town Mary Cress.  A slight drizzle had started, and grey clouds were slowly moving in from the horizon.

Her husband Jeb, who looked unusually strong despite his years, agreed.  "Yup.  I gather it'll be thunderin' an' lightnin' before long, too.  Probably start up by around night-time.  Aye, less common than the spring storms, but fall storms can be pretty impressive.  Leastaways we won't have to worry about them Order of Unseen Wisdom settin' fires tonight!  Yeah, there's gonna be some changes around here and how that stone altar in the mountains gets used.  SAZGA-RUL ENUSHIGIKAL.  Have fun keeping a fire going in a raging thunderstorm like we're gonna see tonight!  Why, it's positively a cause for cheer."

Mary smiled.

[Princess Leia]

I was about to ask why on earth 3P!Dale would lie to get me killed, but then it hit me: maybe he really has been hit by the slowkill. In which case, his only chance to win (assuming a vaguely survivor-type role) is if we mislynch today and give scum the win tonight, before he dies.
But. But, assuming that, there's no way left for us to lynch scum today, short of some townies convincing Dale they're scum so that he'll vote with them. Which would be a hilarious path to victory, but not one I see much odds in at this stage.
So I'll put that aside and assume - hope, even - that Dale must, somehow, be scum. (And in case it's not clear, yes, he is lying, because I'm not a miller of any sort, but more than that, Dale was never a cop, he just looked that way). I can't guess why he didn't kill night 3, and to try and reason anything based on scum actions is pure WIFOM; maybe he felt they didn't need to at that stage, and not going for it would add confusion. Maybe the scumteam felt Nikolai was scummy enough that he would attract a lynch and was therefore more use to them alive than dead - in which case, after all, it worked. As for targeting me, assuming SnowFire didn't count yesterday was a unanimous Nikolai lynch, which I guess gave him a free choice of everyone for "second-placed lynch candidate". Night 1 Peyton must've misunderstood where the flavour said the kill he deflected was aimed; it wouldn't be the first time.

Dale, I corroborated your story because it lined up with my role result on you - as you presumably prepared it to. (Flavour arguments lolwhat, but this time traveller thing doesn't really fit in with the Cthulu theme, so I'm guessing it's your own rather than the mod's, but that's beside the point really). The mention that you "will have to make a decision under quick pressure" was an attempt to be diplomatic in saying that I didn't trust you to reason it out yourself (and don't get me wrong, it is hard to get these things right, I had to run it through about five times before I reached what I thought was the correct conclusion), but then I realised given Meme Mafia it was better to just leave it to you and hope it came out right. If Kolmogorov had been town but not full-resurrected (which seemed a possibility, I didn't know whether he would be really alive or roleless/voteless, see Callahan's flip and Greaves' claim) and you'd misvigged last night then that would've been game over, so it was potentially a vital decision. I imagine you will get to kill tonight, if that really is still your role, given that we know Bike got a night 2 action. I can't argue about happening to investigate Greaves the same night he revived; coincidences happen.

As to me knowing scum's secret, there's one very easy solution: the presence I felt, the one that thought it was watching over the town, was in fact scum. Maybe it goes further than that, and the scumteam are the higher echelons of whatever organisation within the military was backing me up, Marbury is their town, the presence their own supernatural guardian, and for some reason now they've turned on the ordinary citizens.

Given SnowFire's evasiveness, I'm almost willing to believe this all just more madness. Almost. But why would Dale be going to so much effort to consider the possibility that I'm clear if he really had a cop scum result on me? Why would he dance around his alignment like that, if he really were town or even neutral? Why would he make this big fuss about Nov 1 and then drop it? Why would he get his roleclaim backwards, claiming that he's now Mei-Fan and blocking Dale, but this would mean that he was losing his Vig power and his Cop one still worked, when if his role were really what he claimed it would be the opposite?

Nope. Not buying it. You're either scum or you're 3P but siding with them, and in the later case all is lost already. ##Unvote, ##Vote: Roland Dale, or whatever his real name is.

[Bardiche]

Mei-Fan Chen;

Ahahaha yeah that seals it. Not even bothering to claim my result is wrong and try to throw suspicion onto me. Rich.

I'll humour your response so none of the town falls into your trap. TL;DR ahead, you can skip this if you don't buy Hargreaves' story anyway. If you think there's some credibility, read on, it's worthless rubbish.

1) I'm not a third party. I'm not scum. I'm Town. Have been since the start of the game and will remain until the end of the game. And even if I was a third party, I prefer victory aligned with town any day. A third-party Cop-Vigilant? Please. That's too ridiculous. If Snowfire had given me that role he'd be an incredible bastard mod and I can't believe you're going for that.

2) I was never a Cop? That's interesting, given that you said you had two role results for me. Besides, if I was never a Cop, please explain to me why I would have such nigh-unerring faith in Peyton Hadley from Night 1 onward, wavering only to question his alignment on basis of role, citing no reason to pursue the case with vigour because I saw no other faults? Why would I pay close attention to the Miller flip and cite it immediately to shut down Hayles' poor attempt at a Cop claim?

3) See bullet point 2 regarding "Peyton must have mistaken it". Remember how he said he had lost bulletproof status? I refer to the flip, specifically wording it as the first nightkill attempt against him would fail. Even if he guarded someone with his Bodyguard ability, I doubt it'd count as an attack against him, since I'd be attacking someone else.

4) Why would I go to so much effort to consider the possibility that you're clear? Because this is role madness, and you claimed you'd get cursed. Moreover, your play has been pretty good in my eyes and, yes, I would've only want to lynch you because of Martin's story about Docproof and there coincidentally being two Doctor-like roles.
Why would I dance around my alignment? Because I was hoping that scum wouldn't bother with a claimed third-party until lategame, and town wouldn't need to worry about a third-party who was clearly on their side.
November 1 is silly ─ I receive nightly reports each night and I clued together it was just the last possible date the game could still be on-going.

5) I never claimed I was blocking Dale. I was speaking in flavour and roleplay terms of holding back the murderous alter-ego, who is Dale. Mei-Fan is the Cop. This last argument is silly.

In other words, Samuel Hargreaves is confirmed Scum to me. I would've seriously wavered had he tried to play innocent even longer, but there's no doubt now that he's suddenly throwing a ridiculous case against me on the sole assumption I must be third-party.

Where does this idea of a third-party come from? That Nathan Greaves has information indicating a serial killer? Please. He said himself it didn't refer to the role Serial Killer. Why would town need a warning anyway that there's a vigilante out there?

And if I am a third-party, where's the added value in lynching me? I have no idea who are town and who are scum if I was third-party, right? I could hit scum tonight if I was just randomly lobbing my Night Kill at someone, right? Had I lobbed my Night Kill at anyone other than you the game would've ended, and I would've known this -- if I was third party survivor I could've won the game last night and wouldn't stall it until today. And if I'm scum, there's really no reason for me to investigate Peyton, Pietro and Kyle. There wouldn't even be a good reason I'd return "Cop" to your rolecop investigation.

[Tanaka]

Exam done, time to pay attention to this.

You know nobody on the town side has any reason to but more weight into one possible lie over another.  "Hargreaves is scum!"? "He's lying I'm town he was never a cop!"?  Both of those, and all the claims being made on both sides about Dale's roleflavor mean the same amount of nothing to me.

What we do have is some pretty simple logic.  SEAMUS O'EXCAL ALREADY FLIPPED DOCFATHER, A ROLE THAT EXPLICITLY STATES THAT HE PROTECTS AGAINST NORMAL NIGHTKILLS.  Ergo, if not town, the normal killer MUST BE NOT SCUM, or else I am PUNCHING SNOWFIRE IN THE DICK VERY HARD.  And you're throwing this out completely, and "assuming - hoping, even that Dale is scum."

That argument's stupid as hell.  So, even assume 3P!Dale aligning himself with scum... you're going to lynch him in LYLO. Instead of lynching scum.  After he's claimed a slowkill.  A person trying to win the game for town and using their dang head would go after SCUM, even on the chance that Dale gets another night kill, since we'd still be in the game. (Nobody else has claimed the slow kill, so Dale's definitely out tomorrow--hell, only one thing would make me think otherwise at this point, and if that happened, refer back to my point about punching Snow's penis.  Even allowing for 1 more fastkill against town, that leaves 1 scum and 2 townies left if we hit scum today.)

Note that this is also the second time you've blatantly ignored what's clearly laid out in the flips in order to build a shoddy case against an otherwise-confirmed not-scum player (revisit how Chad only comes back as "Doctor" to rolecops, so there's no way Scum!Daniels could have known about the miller-removal stuff).

Yeah, I'm pretty sure we're done here.  I want Nik to weigh in before I drop a vote because unlike some people I'm not going to declare "discussion done!" and then drop the hammer.  In the meantime I'll do a token re-read of Andrews but I'm don't think it will matter at this point.

Ninja'd by Dale or whatever he wants to be called, but I've got nothing to add to it.

[Chiaki]

Samuel: Okay, now you're resting this theory on the idea that scum used the fastkill and the slowkill against Bike The First on Night 1, and ascribing the entire Docfather role as a massive headfake by SnowFire against town (because the scum would know that the fastkill is on their side). Sorry, but I find that hard to believe. Plus as Peyton said in his roleclaim, "But the Mod was very clear that I was the target last night." I'm willing to trust that even without the circumstantial evidence.

Bard: After Nikolai's flip (speaking of, where the hell is the Russkie?), that math doesn't work anymore. Killing a townie last night would just make it 3:2 LYLO today, or 2:2:1 LYLO if you're an ITP. Either way the outcome of the game is not certain, because, as you said yourself, an ITP doesn't know who the scum are, and could still vote with town to lynch one. For that matter, in theory the scum don't know whether or not someone's an ITP, and could vote with town to lynch him. After we lynched Nikolai, there was no way (that I know of!) for the game to end without another day.

Still, at this point I'm willing to trust you over Hargreaves and Plain Greaves without a second thought.

[Chiaki]

Oh, and also, total litnerd point, but time travel by projecting one's consciousness into another body in the past or future is the defining feature of The Great Race in the Cthulhu Mythos, so The Dark Secret of RonBardFen's Time-Traveling Adventures In Bastard Moddery fits pretty well with the theme.

[Tanaka]

Andrews: Eh, the game still could have ended had Bard killed a townie OTHER than Nikolai and we had mislynched someone else, unless I'm missing something.   Would have brought us to 2:2/1:1:2 and it would be over.  So, yes, it WAS potential LYLO, just one that was very very unlikely.

[Princess Leia]

"I'm not a third party. I'm not scum. I'm Town. Have been since the start of the game and will remain until the end of the game. And even if I was a third party, I prefer victory aligned with town any day." Uh, yeah. Wait until now to claim it, and then right back to "I'm town, but even if I wasn't..."

"if I was never a Cop, please explain to me why I would have such nigh-unerring faith in Peyton Hadley from Night 1 onward...". Even if what you're saying is true, you knew you'd appear as a cop to investigations, as I do now, so you would've acted like one as closely as you could.

"Why would I dance around my alignment? Because I was hoping that scum wouldn't bother with a claimed third-party until lategame, and town wouldn't need to worry about a third-party who was clearly on their side." Again, back and forth on your alignment. So you're claiming you're third-party now? Certainly no way I'm believing you're town.

"I never claimed I was blocking Dale. I was speaking in flavour and roleplay terms of holding back the murderous alter-ego, who is Dale. Mei-Fan is the Cop." Buhuh? So the half of your personality that thinks he's an ordinary novelist is the crazy subconscious killer you weren't aware of, and the half of you that thinks he's a time-travelling chinese woman from the future is the perfectly sane cop who you've been fully conscious of all along?

"Why would town need a warning anyway that there's a vigilante out there". That's a point against yourself; given both myself and it seems Greaves were warned something like you existed, it makes a lot more sense if you're not town.

I figured you for third party because I think your role makes even less sense as scum. But as I've said, it doesn't matter; either way you're playing against town at this stage, for whatever reason, so our only hope is to kill you and hope you're actually scum. So if you're saying you're not 3P (back from how you were 3P back at point 4) because 3P!You could've won the game earlier, great - I guess that means you're scum, and we've actually got a chance of winning this. Vote stays.

Daniels ninja. My grounds for going after him whether or not he's 3P was that if he's 3P and playing against town there's no way we can get enough votes to lynch scum anyway, so in that case we've already lost - if he really has the slowkill on him, there's no possible carrot or stick we could offer him to play along with town instead. So there's simply no point worrying about the case where he's 3P.
"SEAMUS O'EXCAL ALREADY FLIPPED DOCFATHER, A ROLE THAT EXPLICITLY STATES THAT HE PROTECTS AGAINST NORMAL NIGHTKILLS.  Ergo, if not town, the normal killer MUST BE NOT SCUM, or else I am PUNCHING SNOWFIRE IN THE DICK VERY HARD". Nope, we've already had a bunch of millers when there are no actual cops around, docs on both scum and town sides, and we've been explicitly told that most of the roles are traps; a few posts ago you were saying this is role madness the way you like it.

Forum errors and Andrews ninja but I'd better post at this point.

[Chiaki]

Andrews: Eh, the game still could have ended had Bard killed a townie OTHER than Nikolai and we had mislynched someone else, unless I'm missing something.   Would have brought us to 2:2/1:1:2 and it would be over.  So, yes, it WAS potential LYLO, just one that was very very unlikely.

Yeah, but he's saying he could have ended the game but chose not to in practice, not just in theory. Once we actually got to the night phase, that wasn't possible anymore, so he gets no townie cred for not choosing to end the game when he couldn't actually choose to end the game. Not a huge point, but eh.

[Tanaka]

Andrews:  Oh, wait, you're saying Bard couldn't have ended it after the flip.  Well, then you'd be right.

Andrews read done.  Eh, nothing as scummy as Greaves has played, and if we're not lynching Hargreaves or Dale I'd be way more comfortable lynching Greaves than Andrews at this point.

Sam ninja, but . . . yeah, whatever.  "I'm going after 3P Dale because if he's proscum we've already lost" neverminding that in this scenario scum would have no reason to join in on a Dale lynch either.  Psyduck.  

I really want Nikolai to weigh in because there's one thing he could say that would screw up my take on things but if this goes on too much longer it just gives scum more time to confuse the issue.

Andrews ninja.  Addressed already. 

[Chiaki]

Nope, we've already had a bunch of millers when there are no actual cops around, docs on both scum and town sides, and we've been explicitly told that most of the roles are traps

Not the same. Miller in a game with no cops (or none that you can survive being investigated by) is a trap, because claiming it makes you look scummy. Doctor in a game where the scumkill can't be stopped by doctors is a trap, because it leaves you open to scum watchers or the like, and can even end up hurting the people you try to "save" if you have a variant sanity. My role isn't so much a trap as a bottomless pit with hidden pillows at the bottom, but it still counts. Doctor in a game where you're in charge of the standard nightkill is just pointless. It's not a trap because there's no downside for the doc - not even paranoia, after a night or two when it becomes clear that there's only the one fastkill floating around, and, in your situation, the scum own it. No trap.

Also, here's one for you, Hargreaves. If he's 3P, then Greaves and I are scum, right?

Well, I'll vote for whoever the confirmed townies (that is, Jack Daniels and Nikolai Ihaveareallylonglastnameonov) do. Unless it's me...hell, even if it is me. If they both vote for me I'm screwed anyway, right? Might as well race scum for the final hammer. 

There, now there's a majority vote with or without Bard, assuming they can agree. Satisfied? Somehow I doubt it.

[Bardiche]

Mei-Fan Chen;

oh right russia's still playing. Where is Russia.

Ignoring Hargreaves. Martin and Daniels, hooray!

That leaves one last matter to me.

1: I am Town.
2: Nikolai is Town. Because Self-Revivier.
3: Jack Daniels is Town. Because euphorias, claimed loss of Miller status and Chad's role being completely unknown even to him.

If I get to vig tonight, I'm taking down either Nathan or Martin, assuming you lynch Samuel and he's scum. I trust there are no objections, given that worst-case it'll make Day 7 a 2:1. Right?

[Chiaki]

None whatsoever. If the night ends with Jack, Nikolai and one of me or Nathan alive, then we win. Either I'm dead and they lynch the necromancer, or I'm alive and there are no scum standing. Either way works for me.

[Tanaka]

Sounds like a plan to me.

[Chiaki]

Jeez, I can't stop overthinking this, but let's put the last nail in the coffin of the Bard!Scum idea.

If Bard is scum, then scum did not slowkill last night. The only person who's claimed it is Bard himself, and while Nikolai hasn't posted yet, the way SnowFire wrote his role looks pretty clear to me - he was dead until the start of the day, so he wouldn't be a valid target for night actions. So in this theory either scum killed one of their own (hahahahahano) or they killed nobody.

SO. That means that at the end of Night 6, since there was no slowkill, NO TOWNIES WILL DIE UNLESS THE FASTKILLER KILLS THEM. You know, the killer that you now claim to be, complete with the choice to not kill at all if you don't want to. It's 4:2 now, and if we mislynch, it will be 3:2. With no nightkills, it stays 3:2 and the sun rises on Day 7. A successful vigkill makes it 3:1.

That doesn't sound very True LYLOy to me. In fact, it sounds just as LYLOy as yesterday was - the game ends if we mislynch and a townie gets fastkilled, otherwise play continues. But the mod has today as Really Most Sincerely LYLO, and yesterday as Town-Favored LYLO.

It doesn't work.

[Bardiche]

Mei-Fan Chen;

Well, even without my NK you'd hit Greaves tomorrow I'd assume from today's input. I just did the math and I *think* it'd be potential LYLO if I could indeed NK, so I'm unsure. But it doesn't matter. I'm fairly sure that Greaves is the last scum.

So the wait's on Nikolai.

At least he doesn't need to bother with that wall of text.

... am I the only one a little annoyed he managed to skirt by mostly lurking and snipe-contributing, promising analysis but never delivering and yet ending up the towniest town among us?



Martin: Your calculations point out to me I won't get to NK either way. Sigh.