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Author Topic: Season 41-2 - Trannies, lovesickness and voodoo dolls. This is not right.  (Read 7082 times)

Dhyerwolf

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Well, I was assuming that the crit is independent of what attack he uses (I think he has the same crit rate in both, so it implies that it's indepedent of whether he's attacking or Falconing. Um, hmm. I could see that view going either way though).
...into the nightfall.

muakaka

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Jenna Angel (DDS) vs. Belial (WA4)- I think Belial was immune to stat busts? I consider most WA4 ailments as stat busts, and it didn't seem to work on her. Even then, probably wins this.
Zed (WA) vs. Ellen Kirishima (Pers)- Go back to Heavy, Zed.
Patriarch Sergius XVII (XS2) vs. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs)- Lenient on Yuri's formchoice.... SH1 form probably takes this.

Heavy

Tifa Lockheart (FF7) vs. Vulcanus (Disgaea) - Tifa.
Demi (PS4) vs. Belcoot (S5)- Finally got in? Falcon Rune FTW!
Kharg (AtL4) vs. Zera Valmar (G2)- Big Owl.

Middle

Guy (L2) vs. Luke fon Fabre (TotA)- I'm not sure...... I want to give Luke the Jewel of Lorelei, as that's pretty much the form which I consider a Middle, but still on the fence about this....
Sara (BoF1) vs. Elly van Houten (XG)- Slaughter.
Nino (FE7) vs. Kornell (G3)

Light

Lowen (FE7) vs. Tia (L2)- Uhhhhhhhhh
Mojo (CC) vs. Spar (BoF2)- Not CC light.
Lani (FF9) vs. Roland (S3)- Who the hell's Lani again?
Cyan Garamonde (FF6) vs. Zegai (S5)- Suiko warrior with Rune > most suikoscrubs >> Cyan.


Dark Holy Elf

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Well, I was assuming that the crit is independent of what attack he uses (I think he has the same crit rate in both, so it implies that it's indepedent of whether he's attacking or Falconing. Um, hmm. I could see that view going either way though).

The thing is, the crits on regular attacks are irrelevant to who wins the battle. Only the crit on Falcon matters. If it has <50% chance of occurring, then more often than not, Demi will win.

The crits of Falcon and the crits on normal attacks are, for this fight at least, not comparable events.

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SnowFire

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Jenna Angel (DDS) vs. Belial (WA4) - No DDS so no vote, but as a reply to something brought up, Belial can definitely be hit by stat-downs.  Slow Down + Fragile help a good deal in making the fight less annoying, since you'll waste less time healing and possibly get a few more turns while the shield is down.
Patriarch Sergius XVII (XS2) vs. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs) - Very weakly.  The problem for SH2 Yuri is that he will eventually have to switch to his Dark fusion to heal MP, and he'll be weak to the Patriarch's attacks and since he just stole MP probably down on HP.  In general, it'd be a tricky game with constant form-switching.  SH1 Yuri...  switches to Amon and beats down followed by Healing a lot, but I don't think Amon was significantly faster enough (only the SR gave the big speed boost IIRC).

Heavy

Surt (VP1) vs. Edgar Roni Figaro (FF6) - Edgar's damage is fine?  Don't see the worry about that here.
Kharg (AtL4) vs. Zera Valmar (G2) - No Big Owl (don't think I ever got that), but Zera is horrible.

Middle

Guy (L2) vs. Luke fon Fabre (TotA) - Guy doesn't really have good damage at all by the endgame.  Maxim and Artea both outdamage him by a lot, IIRC.
Sara (BoF1) vs. Elly van Houten (XG) - Elly's damage isn't bad!  But she needs some healing here.
Canas (FE7) vs. Ronfar (L:EBC) - Didn't Destiny Dice do good damage?  I forget if it still did at endgame, granted.  And not sure a Luna crit kills outright.
Nino (FE7) vs. Kornell (G3) - Why is Kornell in Middle?  Also, level penalty.

Light

Lowen (FE7) vs. Tia (L2)
Mojo (CC) vs. Spar (BoF2)
Lani (FF9) vs. Roland (S3)
Cyan Garamonde (FF6) vs. Zegai (S5)

superaielman

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Guy outdamages Maxim and Selan in the DL both. Even if he didn't his defense is sick and any of the 1.5x IP from the Zirco weapons more than tip the fight in his favor.

Ronfar's damage is really, really bad at endgame. Hiro and Lemina both get big damage late, making his already scrubby offense look worse.
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Dhyerwolf

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SnowFire, I believe Big Owl is gained through the plot of the game automatically.
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OblivionKnight

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You are explicitly given Big Owl in chapter...2 or 3.  It's fairly early.  Same with Darc's Pyron.
[11:53] <+Meeple_Gorath> me reading, that's a good one

[19:26] * +Terra_Condor looks up. Star Wars Football, what?
[19:27] <+Terra_Condor> Han Kicks First?
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Vader intercepts.
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Touchdown and Alderaan explodes in the victory

SnowFire

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It is?  If so, I never ever used Big Owl, then, and I even got halfway through the game with a Kharg & Darc solo playthrough.  I remember Maru having the "shoot an airship" attack which did a ton of damage, but zilch about using the Big Owl or the Pyron.  Probably just never had reason to use it, considering the ease of the game.

(Edit: For what it's worth, the reason I stopped the solo playthrough was that it was ALSO too easy.  See, if you only use one character, they naturally power-level and enemies stop doing damage to them.  It got kind of boring to slaughter baddies only doing single-digit damage to Our Hero, so no reason to use the apparently powerful Big Owl there either.  The only mildly challenging mission is the one where Lilia inexplicably decides to run forward at the soldiers in the snow rather than hang back and let you deal with them.)

(Second edit!  Went back and loaded up the last battle in Lufia II as well as a point pre-Dual Blade but still endgamey.  Okay, Guy does have a higher listed attack power than Maxim; it's just that Maxim + Wave Motion + Dual Blade weakness was doing triple Guy's damage at the end, and Zap was doing double his damage (1200, 750, and 400 or so for Guy).  Also, his Zircon Ax IP was horrible; Triple Attack off his accessory was much better, but that's probably not legal.  Still...  Artea screws with the curve here, so I'd still be inclined to give Guy average damage at best.  Though any decent IP would obviously help push him over the top.)
« Last Edit: March 03, 2008, 04:24:09 AM by SnowFire »

Meeplelard

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In fairness, the Pyron kind of sucks; its a pure status whore machine thing, but its damage just isn't there and its not worth working with.

The Big Owl...there's one fight where the game encourages you use it.  Think its even the fight you first get it; there are those big massive cannons that are annoying to get around, and Big Owl can snipe them and OHKO them, and you have just enough ammo to get them all.

In any event, its easy to forget Big Owl exists cause its one of those limited resources that you are too conservative on, especially when you get the final upgrades and its one shot of absolutely ruthless damage (instead of several shots of nice strong damage that can be fired just about anywhere, and hit a decent radius, IIRC.)  Its easy to refill it at shops and such, but within a dungeon, you typically save it for a boss, and when you face a boss, you often forget you have it altogether.
(and then there's the Dark One who is a rare fight where they decide to remove the thing altogether -_-.)

So yeah, Big Owl is a forced thing; upgrading it isn't, granted (though, think the ultimate upgrades were all store bought stuff in the final dungeon anyway, so its not like they're hyper obscure), and it is easy to forget its existence for a number of reasons.
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[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

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OblivionKnight

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Yeah.  As Meeple said, you cannot miss Big Owl, and the only time you cannot use it is against the final boss (or series of bosses).  All the parts are storebought or found in chest in the last dungeon, and are unique to it.  Pyron...same thing.  I really should get back to updating old topics.  I have Pyron notes lying around.  Makes Darc a status whore...though with the way Arc4 goes in the DL, it might not matter ;_;
[11:53] <+Meeple_Gorath> me reading, that's a good one

[19:26] * +Terra_Condor looks up. Star Wars Football, what?
[19:27] <+Terra_Condor> Han Kicks First?
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Vader intercepts.
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Touchdown and Alderaan explodes in the victory

InfinityDragon

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Just some added info on the Belial/Jenna match.

Jenna1 and Jenna2 are intra-battle forms. Buffs remain on the party when the second form begins, including Power Charge and Mind Charge. The only thing different about the second form is the music and Jenna's appearance.

For those that allow intra-battle form chains (which is most people, I think), there isn't really any way Jenna loses this.

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Are you talking about the first fight -> One with the Orbs transition?
« Last Edit: March 03, 2008, 11:42:29 PM by Cryo »

Luther Lansfeld

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Do you mean Jenna 2 as in the one with the orbs? Or are you considering that seperate?
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OblivionKnight

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ID means Hari-Hara first movement (Jenna form 1 and 2, the frail ones that switch between each other) into Hari-Hara second movement (Jenna 3, the one with orbs), I believe.  Music changes being the Hari-Hara movements.
[11:53] <+Meeple_Gorath> me reading, that's a good one

[19:26] * +Terra_Condor looks up. Star Wars Football, what?
[19:27] <+Terra_Condor> Han Kicks First?
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Vader intercepts.
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Touchdown and Alderaan explodes in the victory

Meeplelard

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(Second edit!  Went back and loaded up the last battle in Lufia II as well as a point pre-Dual Blade but still endgamey.  Okay, Guy does have a higher listed attack power than Maxim; it's just that Maxim + Wave Motion + Dual Blade weakness was doing triple Guy's damage at the end, and Zap was doing double his damage (1200, 750, and 400 or so for Guy).  Also, his Zircon Ax IP was horrible; Triple Attack off his accessory was much better, but that's probably not legal.  Still...  Artea screws with the curve here, so I'd still be inclined to give Guy average damage at best.  Though any decent IP would obviously help push him over the top.)

Just noticed this!

Anyway, Zap was also hitting a weakness against the sinistrals too (pretty sure Dual Blade is purely a sinistral fight), you know.  IIRC, damage curve is something like Artea > Dekar > Guy > Maxim =~ Average > Selan > Lexis > Tia?

No clue where Lexis actually falls but Guy's damage is actually not that bad, nor does Zap screw with the averages as much as you'd expect.  L2's damage curve is pretty close all things considered.
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

InfinityDragon

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I would have thought that by saying the only thing that changes between Jenna1 and 2 is the music and her appearance would have made it clear >.>

To make it simple: All Jenna's forms are fought consecutively within the same battle. This includes the interchanging first and second "forms," as well as the final form where Jenna gets big and summons the Orbs. If you allow intra-battle form shifting, which most people do last I recall (see e.g. Profound Darkness), then Jenna gets the full privilege of ALL her forms in a single DL battle.

superaielman

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(Second edit!  Went back and loaded up the last battle in Lufia II as well as a point pre-Dual Blade but still endgamey.  Okay, Guy does have a higher listed attack power than Maxim; it's just that Maxim + Wave Motion + Dual Blade weakness was doing triple Guy's damage at the end, and Zap was doing double his damage (1200, 750, and 400 or so for Guy).  Also, his Zircon Ax IP was horrible; Triple Attack off his accessory was much better, but that's probably not legal.  Still...  Artea screws with the curve here, so I'd still be inclined to give Guy average damage at best.  Though any decent IP would obviously help push him over the top.)

It's a flat 1.5x damage boost. You ran into elemental resistance there.
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VySaika

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Jenna Angel (DDS) vs. Belial (WA4)-Orb Jenna wins this.
Wren (PS4) vs. Xenobia (L:SSSC)-Just his kind of fight.
Zed (WA) vs. Ellen Kirishima (Pers)-I....think? ACF PC form goes first, kills with his ID move unless I'm forgetting something about Ellen. EDIT: Oh, right, dur, Anti-phys. I r smrt.
Patriarch Sergius XVII (XS2) vs. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs)

Heavy

Surt (VP1) vs. Edgar Roni Figaro (FF6)-Next.
Tifa Lockheart (FF7) vs. Vulcanus (Disgaea)-Next.
Demi (PS4) vs. Belcoot (S5)-GODDAMMIT. Alright folks, I'm the biggest Belcoot fan here and I cannot see a single way for him to win this fight unless you see him OHKOing with an opening Falcon Rune. And...I can't buy that. I just can't. The Elf has the right of this one, as much as I don't like it.
Kharg (AtL4) vs. Zera Valmar (G2)-Big Owl, buhbye.

Middle

Guy (L2) vs. Luke fon Fabre (TotA)-Better slugger. Sorry Luke.
Sara (BoF1) vs. Elly van Houten (XG)-*waves Sara hype flags* Anyway, this fight is a no brainer, yeah.
Canas (FE7) vs. Ronfar (L:EBC)
Nino (FE7) vs. Kornell (G3)-Uhhh, don't think you can dodge G3 techs. At least I haven't seen it happen so far. Also I'm not inclined to give Nino full levels either, so that clinches it.

Light

Lowen (FE7) vs. Tia (L2)-Killer crit will land eventually? Whatever.
Mojo (CC) vs. Spar (BoF2)-Not Mojo.
Lani (FF9) vs. Roland (S3)-I'm not as sure about the GET LANI OUT OF LIGHT thing that seems to be going around, but this is still a no brainer.
Cyan Garamonde (FF6) vs. Zegai (S5)-uhhh, I'm really not sure. I think Zegai might give him the time to Cleave which is "...".
« Last Edit: March 04, 2008, 03:26:12 AM by Gatewalker »
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Grefter

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Just for the record, Dual Blade is Sinistrals only and is Holy/Light element like Zap/Fry which Sinistrals take increased damage from.
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James_xeno

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Jenna Angel (DDS) vs. Belial (WA4)
Wren (PS4) vs. Xenobia (L:SSSC) - Wren really wishes that his phy/mag def was switched around here. Or at least had some type of damage. Barrier just might be enough to save Wren from a slaughter, but Xenobia's HP, Mdamage and overall durability put this firmly out of reach for him.
Zed (WA) vs. Ellen Kirishima (Pers)
Patriarch Sergius XVII (XS2) vs. Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs)


Heavy

Surt (VP1) vs. Edgar Roni Figaro (FF6)
Tifa Lockheart (FF7) vs. Vulcanus (Disgaea)
Demi (PS4) vs. Belcoot (S5)
Kharg (AtL4) vs. Zera Valmar (G2)


Middle

Guy (L2) vs. Luke fon Fabre (TotA)
Sara (BoF1) vs. Elly van Houten (XG)
Canas (FE7) vs. Ronfar (L:EBC)
Nino (FE7) vs. Kornell (G3)


Light

Lowen (FE7) vs. Tia (L2)
Mojo (CC) vs. Spar (BoF2)
Lani (FF9) vs. Roland (S3)
Cyan Garamonde (FF6) vs. Zegai (S5)

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