DL Mafia GAME OVER Scum Win

[Noyn]

Mäh forgot I could ask the Vote count, I blame my lack of sleep due playing all night (04.00am here. xD).
But yeah Vote count, please.

Thought and also just in case it's a bastrad Mod joke.

##UNVOTE: Carthrat
##VOTE: Kilga

Don't take it bad, just figured if it is as Makkotah said and my vote actually will be counted it could lead to mislynch.
So I'll rather vote someone who has no vote yet, just in case. If it's actually counted I'll unvote you right away, if not no it's fine anyway.
Either way no harm done. :>
Thaks for piintign that out Makkotah, again I blame my lack of sleep fro not seeing that. >_>

Just so you know, if you try to post when someone else makes a post before you're done, you will get a

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Given that Excal typed up a votecount while you were typying that post, you probably should have reacted to his votecount.  (Obviously I'm not implying a scum tell or anything; this is your sixth post on these forums and they work a bit differently than other forums; no big).

Aye thanks, I realized when I wrote my last post. But thanks for telling me anyway I get it now. :>

On another note I wonder just how many jokevotes I'll end up with in this game. xD
And call me over cautious, but they won't have a nasty side effect will they?

[SnowFire]

Carthrat (3): Snowfire, Taishyr, Taishyr, Metroid

Er, Excal, I unvoted Carth.  But don't worry, I have a great new target.

Noyn is actually at 0, but even Mods need their jokevotes!

This is true, mods do need jokevotes.

##VOTE: Excal

Though it seems srs bizness started strangely quickly this game!  So on the more serious note...  I'm not sure what to make of this, but looking back Noyn said he'd be voteless for two days.  The opening post says that such effects "rarely" last beyond a single day.  Well, rarely isn't never, and I don't think Noyn is lying or even mistaken about this, since we'll find out very quickly on Day 2 if you are... just a weird fact to file away.

##UNVOTE: Excal
##VOTE: Carthrat (STILL EVIL)

Ninja'd: In your average game of Mafia, Noyn, votes are completely harmless until you've been lynched.  (Which is pretty harmful, granted.)  If votes do something else, you probably know already because it'll be in your character description, but such things are VERY RARE.  The only example I can think of was Shale in Super Smash Bros. Mafia, where he had an "HP bar" that took damage based on votes on him at the end of each day.

[Noyn]

Though it seems srs bizness started strangely quickly this game!  So on the more serious note...  I'm not sure what to make of this, but looking back Noyn said he'd be voteless for two days.  The opening post says that such effects "rarely" last beyond a single day.  Well, rarely isn't never, and I don't think Noyn is lying or even mistaken about this, since we'll find out very quickly on Day 2 if you are... just a weird fact to file away.

As you said "rarely isn't never" and I always had the worst kind of luck.
Not sure what you mean with the "just a weird fact to file away", but since I couldn't vote today I'm pretty sure I won't be able to Day 2 either.
Not that I'm happy about having that pretty much confrimed now. :s
But if it makes you happy and lose the doubts you may have (even if I wonder what there's left to doubt), I'll surely try it tomorrow again.

[Laggy]

Zenny, scum piling onto Carthrat to pull a sudden end to D1 via train? Really? Come on. I'd give props to scumteam if they played that blatantly.

In all seriousness, Rat's in Aussieland and probably just now coming around. Give 'em time. My preemptive prod for Alice lurkerdom still stands though!

[metroid composite]

Poooondering more serious votes; there's some straws I could grasp at, but they're very, very, very flimsy straws at this point, so I'm not sure I should.

In the mean time...

Each Day Phase will last 72 hours, at which point Kefka and Luca get bored and will consult with their partner in crime, Nyarlahatbot in order to decide tie breaks, or will simply off whoever has the most votes.

I'm curious, does this mean that hammers do not exist in this game?  They're not mentioned anywhere in the opening post.  Granted, I'm sure we'll be able to tell by the votecounts soon enough.

[Excal]

Hammers do exist.  They will happen when there is majority vote on one person.  As they are not random, they are your friend.

[Cotigo]

Mph, fair enough.  It would be stupidly obvious for scum to hammer like that.  I still don't like seeing anyone at L-3 before they've had time to post.

Also hey look I've definitely seen Alice in IRC today and there's not even a joke vote around.  Turned out to be a null tell last game, admittedly.  Still not super happy fun times though.

[Carthrat]

haha look rat called out lurkers and he hasn't said anything HILARIOUS HYPOCRISY HATING OPPORTUNITY

Ok moving on

##Vote: metroid because voting for me is totally not flimsy at all amirite

[Taishyr]

it's a rat.

okay. two things of note: Noyn seems to end up with a modvote whenever he tries to vote today, and Noyn's logic is at least passable (we've had far more trainwrecky cases of not noticing before, so hardly gonna chastise him, esp. since the vote wasn't sure to count anywho). no other comments just yet.

outside of that I've got errands, back in about six-eight hours or so. (OMIGOD SCUMTELL I'M SAYING WHEN I'LL BE BACK OMIGODOMIGODOMIGODOMIGOD)

[Kilgamayan]

Poooondering more serious votes; there's some straws I could grasp at, but they're very, very, very flimsy straws at this point, so I'm not sure I should.

Flimsy straws are still better than pure gags. No reason not to chase them.

Vote turns serious on these grounds.

Noyn's votelessness acknowledged. Nothing to really say there that wouldn't be role speculation.

[QuietRain]

Non-game note: Herniated disks suck.  Vicodin is my friend, but may play a bit of havok with my ability to be coherant.  Will do the best I can.  Not going to remove myself, but expect a tad bit of slowness than I usually take to respond.  I've got Gate watching the game for me since sitting at the chair is somewhat problematic for me atm, so if things heat up before I'm due a regular check in and I need to comment, he'll let me know.

-----------------------------

First off, jokevotes are fun, but better to get on with more serious things, so
##UNVOTE: Tai

If I can find time to go ahead and make a post, I expect others to have as well.  Lurking is always grounds for concern. 
##VOTE: Alice

[SnowFire]

So srs biznes mafia is beginning, judging from Kilga's post?  Right.

okay. two things of note: Noyn seems to end up with a modvote whenever he tries to vote today, and Noyn's logic is at least passable (we've had far more trainwrecky cases of not noticing before, so hardly gonna chastise him, esp. since the vote wasn't sure to count anywho). no other comments just yet.

Actually Excal said Noyn was really at 0 votes, he was just having fun.  So Noyn can flail his votes about safely if harmlessly.  Which you should, Noyn; even if you can't vote we're interested in what you think.

##UNVOTE: Carthrat
##VOTE: Cyrilaggy

Two things, one of which I don't think is a scumtell but worthy of talking about, the other is quite minor but it's something to get Day 1 going.

First: Laggy's prophecy is coming true!  Behold, no Alice!  Well...  I'm all for lynch all lurkers but if Alice truly does disappear completely (and Laggy claimed his vote would become serious if this happened) then this is more grounds for a modkill than a lynch.  This came up in Simpsons Mafia where scum tried to start a "pressure" train on someone who wasn't around early Day 1.  However I don't really consider this an issue because, well, in Cthulu Mafia Alice got away with posting very little and still evaded a modkill, and Excal is about as reluctant to modkill as I am, so we shouldn't rely on a modkill to get rid of lurkers.  And Alice is definitely online rather than busy with Real Life, so he is presumably reading the thread and "pressure" votes might actually work to bring our favorite lurker out.  So I don't really hold this against Laggy / QuietRain.

Second:  Actual reason I'm voting Laggy is because he tossed in a "And this is an excuse for me to be lazy!" to his vote, which might be setting up grounds for doing nothing himself while waiting out Alice's post (which will come 3 hours before deadline if Cthulu Mafia is any indication).  Yeah this is kind of weaksauce as a complaint but it's Day 1.

This vote is serious but only as serious as any early Day 1 vote is, considering what flimsy evidence we have to work with.

[Tohsaka Rin]

"Well, now, when Highland dispatched a request for assistance from Harmonia, I never quite imagined lord Blight would be entertaining a rather... peculiar hobby, we shall say."

Sasarai calmly sips his tea. The small host of Harmonian soldiers watch their War Bishop quietly - they know better than to speak when their leader is drinking tea. Like a refined gentleman.

"Now, then, how about a report of the current standings?"

Day 1 Votes

Alice (2): Cyril, QuietRain
Carthrat (2): Snowfire, Taishyr, Taishyr, Metroid
Cyril (2): Ciato, Snowfire
Taishyr (0): Taishyr, Quietrain
Xanth (1): Xanth
Ciato (1): Zenny
MC (2): Kilga, Carthrat
Kilga (1): Taishyr, Yoshiken
Noyn (2): Excal, Excal
Excal (0): Snowfire

As there are 13 chumps still arguing, it'll take an agreement by 7 to send someone to re-education.

Day 1 will end on Wednesday, 3PM PST. As it appears to be 11:00 AM on Monday right now, I believe there are 52 hours remaining until deadline.

[Laggy]

I am perfectly willing to admit being lazy on Day

[Laggy]

...hotkey'd posted before I could finish.

ANYWAY. 1 was the end of that.

I will not rely on modkills to handle anything (not voting someone because their inactivity warrants a modkill is silly until the modkill actually happens) and I will use metagame galore to confer that Alice's lurkiness has been a great cover for scum play before and, in the absence of other tangible leads at the moment, I will continue to follow up on it.

Also your remarks that 'srs bzness' starting this early baffles me. The less Day 1 BS gagplay we have to sift through the better.

[Xanth]

I was going to apologise for being so busy and having so little for the game and all, but looks like it really doesn't make a difference yet.

##Unvote

Noyn: yeah, yeah, votelessness, okay, sure. Can you still go ahead and use the vote/unvote system as if your vote counted anyway? It might vaguely irritate the moddery, but I don't want the votelessness to lead into a good excuse not to make your opinions very clearly known. If trying to vote while voteless does have a negative effect, then do the same but with FoS. The whole votelessness thing is a null tell and all, but I can see the obvious potential scum gambits leading out from it.

Voting for Alice for lurking is like voting for Rat for being Rat. Except not, since it's actually bad, and Alice probably needs to learn to stop it by being lynched enough times. That being said, I'm really not fond of people jumping right on into LaL at the very start when it's the earliest of placeholder votes possible. I mean what, at this point all he needs do is wave and do a silly dance and be free again. And with Alice, who knows how much time you'd get to buy before having to place an actual vote.

I was actually going to lead on into a vote on QR on this basis of simple manoeuvring, nice and clinical and all, but oh hey there Laggy, what's going on? Alice may well use lurking as part of scum gambits, but if you're going to gesture at metagaming to prop your argument up, then I'll point you right at Cthulhu Mafia, where Alice's greatest super lurking play of all time that threatened to send me crazy for the third time in the game turned out to mask a townie.

Yeah, no. That's altogether too much of a push.

##Vote: Laggy

[metroid composite]

Poooondering more serious votes; there's some straws I could grasp at, but they're very, very, very flimsy straws at this point, so I'm not sure I should.

Flimsy straws are still better than pure gags. No reason not to chase them.

Okay then.  Time to grasp at a very flimsy straw.  Oh, but first:

##UNVOTE: Carthrat
##VOTE: Alice
##UNVOTE: Alice

Just declaring my willingness to stick to Carthrat's pure ideals and play the Lurker pressure game.

Yeah, no. I mean sure I understand why the hesitation on the speed of Rattrain but this seems a bit overreacting, both as to severity overall and as to immediacy of the situation (panicmongering, actually - "right this second"? is that supposed to send my heart aflutter or something?). THAT being said, calling out Noyn just a touch for the vote isn't a terrible idea (MC seems still solidly jokevote).

Thus, I want to hear from Noyn regarding vote placement decision logic, even if only in brief. Vote stands for the moment, in accordance with above statement.

My post was solidly jokevote?  Actually, there's bits and pieces of it that aren't.  In particular, it wasn't an accident that I jumped on the train of 3 people--my experience with Mafia comes mostly from reading Meme Mafia and Cthulu Mafia, both times where Alex did weird stuff like Early Train to read reactions out of people and break us into serious vote time.

And well...I don't see the point in NOT asking me for vote placement logic--at worst I say "lol, oops, jokevote, wasn't paying attention" and we're left with just as much information as making a post dismissing my post as "solidly jokevote, no need to ask."  At best, we get a bit more information.

Or maybe there is a player meta reason to put no pressure on me--if you want to look the good guy; I mean, quite apart from the fact that I'm an unknown quantity and thus people are probably half-expecting me to OMGUS someone, I'm told that I evoke a "little sister, must protect" instinct in some 6-7 DLers IRL, so attacking me might leave a few people with a "negative feeling they can't place".  Noyn, on the other hand, carries none of the baggage (and probably rubs the grammar whores the wrong way)--safe to pressure him.


And obviously yes, this is a flimsy grasping at straws just like I promised--the non joke elements of my "joke post" are subtle and perhaps easily missed.  But it is something I noticed and thought "huh, that's...odd."

##VOTE: Taitoro

[Laggy]

Whether it masked a townie or not in one particular instanced game is... pretty irrelevant to me! Lurkering of that magnitude is bad either way.

Sure, Alice could come by and do the song and dance and prove that he's here, but going off of what exists right now (basically nothing) versus fickle situational metagaming is fine by me. And, honestly? Taking a firm stance draws people and gets them voting each other on actual non-joke cases, even if that draws votes towards me. Which lends to a more productive use of Day 1 time than normal.

I am pretty sure that I stand by LAL being a better tactic than pushing buttons on someone for using metagaming (which everyone inevitably does to a degree, even scum, if you've played scum at all you would know this), so my vote still stands.

[Taishyr]

It read entirely as a joke vote to me due to referencing the Hitlermeme video (which thus connects the LAL comment to hitlermeme, and thus the joking quality), whereas I was willing to push Noyn for something more since the vote on Rat came entirely out of the blue (fourth potential vote for Rat, not even any comment at -all- about Rat in his post so there was no way at all to conclude if he was trying for a jokevote or testing his vote or had a reason or what. He provided an at least passable reasoning for now, I've no complaints for now as it stands.) And frankly calling Rat a "lurker" indirectly that early seemed incredibly silly so I came to a (for me) logical conclusion, which was that the entire line was meant in jest - and thus so was the vote.

ngh, christ, I made a promise to myself I was gonna keep walls of text down. Long story short I also noticed you being third on the train but shrugged because I read it as a jokevote while considering Noyn (very slightly, see above for why) more suspicious. Frankly, jokevote phase, meta makes train setup go anywhichway, it doesn't concern me too much.

Ninja Laggy, more theorycruft on LAL. I say we lynch scum! (shaddup I know that's the intended point of LAL) Seriously, though, I... eh. LAL is a good idea when you don't think someone is more suspicious than a lurker! Lurking can be very suspicious! But playing by hard and fast rules is not my style and I dislike advocation for one side over another since it drowns out looking for scum. So. Scum! I've got a nice strawberry here, any of you want it? I promise I won't bite~ (harder than a crocodile)

##UNVOTE: Carthrat
##VOTE: Zenthor/Makkotah

Main lead I have thus far, in keeping with my own words. Jumping to cover Rat sits poorly with me, especially as it was phrased. This is like saying a piece of wood is more suspicious than a rock right now, granted, and bofh's early silence is grating - especially since I have to presume he did confirm or the game wouldn't have started, thus he would have to know the game started which removes my one possible clemency for him. But Zenthor's sudden jump for "whoa, dudes, RAT MIGHT BE LYNCHED IF SCUM DOGPILE" is... well. Enough for vote switch and serious modo.

[Taishyr]

this just in, I suck at reigning in walls of text.

next up, Dune likes avataring dogs and kappas spin. news at 11.

[Excal]

Alright, I have an update on the Alice situation.  Talked briefly with him, and apparently something came up very suddenly around the start of game, and depending on what happens, may need to be replaced.  I'm still double checking things since I so very much want to avoid a replacement, but if there's any stage at which to do this, Day 1 is it, so I am also looking into potential replacements for Alice at this point in case it does become necessary.

Oh, right, and a vote count.
Day 1 Votes

Alice (2): Cyril, Quietrain, [i[Metroid[/i]
Carthrat (1): Snowfire, Taishyr, Taishyr, Metroid, Snowfire
Cyril (3): Ciato, Snowfire, Xanth
Taishyr (1): Taishyr, Quietrain, Metroid
Xanth (0): Xanth
Ciato (1): Zenny
MC (2): Kilga, Carthrat
Kilga (1): Taishyr, Yoshiken
Zenny (1): Taishyr
Noyn (0): Excal, Excal
Excal (0): Snowfire

With 13 alive it takes 7 votes to lynch.

There are 50.5 hours left in Day 1.

EDIT: Geez, some people expect accuracy in their vote counts.  What's up with that?

[Laggy]

re: walls of text.

I'm taking a personal stance to avoid writing anything more than a few lines or a paragraph at worst. Call it self-enforced succinctness. You, too, can get your intent and words across without drowning the topic in pages.

Interesting observation on Zenny's slightly alarmist attitude there. I had an inkling towards that direction as well, but I didn't really see it as a firm indicator either way. It's also worth noting Rat hasn't actually said anything that can be worked with yet despite showing up!

[Taishyr]

I have two votes now and MC has none. I -see-.

I am magical special awesome voting person dude. Also I see re: bofh.

NINJA EDIT LAGGY: Online in gamingz I am verbose Laggy, this is a habit I've tried to kick and failed. (It's important to explain yourself, at least to me.) I prefer to be fully understood than to have confusion sprout since I said too little, but.

Re: Rat, yes also a good point. Was considering waiting for more from him but decided to just move to where I felt the more pressing issue was.

[Cotigo]

Because being wary of putting someone at L-3 with a possible 3-4 scum is soooooooo overreacting.  Well, a little, I'll grant.  But there's absolutely no reason to be putting someone so close to lynch unless it's to provoke a response, and it just seemed (rightly) that Noyn was being a spaz instead of pulling an Alex.  

And, my phrasing of it?  Panicky, maybe, and I have no excuse for that that won't just come off as OMGUS, but it was true--given no scumvotes on Carthrat at the time, they could have lynched right that second.

At my lunch break so I can't go too much detail right now, but as it is LAL sounds better to me than anything else, especially since I've metaseen Alice in chat and he hasn't even thrown in a token post yet.  Relying on modkills is stupid and a little bit scummy (assuming TownAlice of course... score a townie modkill, mislynch, and a night kill in one day?  Sounds like a pretty enticing prize.) Tai seems kind of towny right now since his suspicions of me are mostly valid in light of appeals to emotion being a valid scum tactic, though not grilling MC is a little off to me but hey look ninja and not so much anymore.  And hey look I got to get back to work.  More later.

[Cotigo]

Clarification on the second paragraph:  Not that that wouldn't have been mindbogglingly stupid, but yeah.