Author Topic: DL Mafia GAME OVER Scum Win  (Read 60704 times)

Alice

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Re: DL Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #375 on: May 30, 2010, 11:16:06 PM »
Ugh, still only partway through a Zenthor reread. Looking at voting Roukanken right now, but this is pending on Zenny's reread result.

Roleclaim is Amnesiac Cop, I can get results but apparently I cannot remember them, this can, at a later time, change. However in my current form I am basically useless. N0 I investigated Kilga, N1 I investigated m_c. That's about it roleclaim-wise.

Alice

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Re: DL Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #376 on: May 30, 2010, 11:20:00 PM »
Also I have no explanation of what was discovered by m_c beyond the fact that that was a colosally stupid thing to say. I could state that she just felt especially scummy due to excessive amounts of posts and excessively little content, but yeah. Mostly just a what-was-I-thinking thing from D1.

Alice

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Re: DL Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #377 on: May 30, 2010, 11:27:08 PM »
Argh precisely zero motivation to finish reads since it appears my chance of getting lynched is approximately 100% at this point. From what I've read I have to say that Zenthor looks better than Roukanken, or perhaps at least more honest (not sure if that's the word for it - his arguments seem less contrived). Somewhat iffy on content, but I agree with his Roukanken case, and that Roukanken's rather bad, so yeah. Roukanken's 4 useful posts are a continuation of the m_c train from D1 for the reasons of continuing a D1 case (see any SirAlex post for why doing this blindly, i.e. for the same reasons as D1 with very little/no additional reasons is a bad thing), then shifts to Tai in a rather awkwardly-worded single paragraph where he isn't really clear as to his reasoning (nobody stated that the person you voted for had to be one of Xanth and/or Tai), and then after the (now infamous) Xanth modkill, he switches to Zenny, principally as, well, an OMGUS. Vote preferences at the moment go Roukan > SnowFire >> Everyone else.

##Vote: Roukanken

Taishyr

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Re: DL Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #378 on: May 30, 2010, 11:29:34 PM »
* Taitoro rubs head.

For the sake of reference, since yeah, I'm tempted to let the hammer go through, Alice, mind the full claim? (Character, I mean. Yeah, it's not terribly relevant, but I'd like to know this part as well.)

Alice

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Re: DL Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #379 on: May 30, 2010, 11:34:31 PM »
Radius, famed knight of Termina, or at least I think I am/once was, I think. (this is flavour).

Incidentally, Tai, I still find your initial switch to me a tad artificial. Kilga at least justifies it with LAL, and everyone else has good reasons, but yours seem wrong, regurgitated or forced. Mind re-stating your case on me (having read my most recent posts would be nice, but not necessary, given the impending deadline).

SnowFire

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Re: DL Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #380 on: May 30, 2010, 11:36:06 PM »
So Alice.  Just to confirm, your role PM give you no idea as to what kind of conditions are we talking about here?  No idea if this is "remember on LYLO" or "remember X days later per investigation" or "remember upon level-up effect" or something?

Tohsaka Rin

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Re: DL Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #381 on: May 30, 2010, 11:41:00 PM »
"So, day end?"

Sasarai nodded.

"But lord Blight won't act until he's bored."

Day 2 Votecount

MC (0): Roukanken
Roukanken (2): Taitoro, Zenthor, Alice
Carthrat (2): Metroid, Zenthor, Yoshiken
Alice (4): Snowfire, Taitoro, Kilgamayan, Carthrat
Zenthor (1): Yoshiken, Carthrat, Roukanken
Taitoro (0): Kilgamayan, Xanth, Roukanken
Xanth (1): Taitoro

Noyn and Xanth have reached ghost status. They will be eliminated from the game at Day's end, but can neither vote nor be voted on.

With nine left active, only five are required to lynch!
This means that Alice is at L-1, so please keep that in mind!

Day has ended! However, the day phase continues until conversation has stopped interesting Luca Blight!
For the record, it ended five minutes ago, so at 3:45 I will end the day at my discretion if no interesting conversation is on-going.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2010, 11:43:50 PM by Sasarai »

Taishyr

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Re: DL Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #382 on: May 30, 2010, 11:41:26 PM »
I've replied to your most recent posts, source here. And as for the "artificial"... I presented my case, I'm sorry you don't like it? Last two lines summarized, effectively:
Quote
So here, Alice, have a vote for active lurking and lack of content D2, as well as attacking easy case (MC) and pitnicking SnowFire while accusing Glen of doing the same to you, as I wonder if you were just waiting for one of Xanth or myself to noose up completely:...

The active lurking was redacted the next post - as Zenthor said you'd have to be posting to be active, sooooo. But yeah, I don't know what you don't like, frankly it felt like you went after MC as an easy case and were willing to nitpick SnowFire while accusing Glen of doing the same. Regurgitate. Not sure what else you want here, dude. Yeah, my vote's standing, no real objection to Rou or Alice going here as both seem off to me. But.

Alice

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Re: DL Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #383 on: May 30, 2010, 11:41:58 PM »
It hinted at a level-up effect, but that's about it.

Alice

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Re: DL Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #384 on: May 30, 2010, 11:44:35 PM »
@Tai: the main thing is that you never replied to my explanation of that, I wasn't willing to nitpick Snow, I was willing to lynch him, and then we hit 4 hours to deadline, and I was the only one voting him, and I had to leave to be somewhere else, and there was a good chance that I wasn't going to return, thus moving my vote to one of the major trains of the day. How is this somehow bad?

Taishyr

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Re: DL Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #385 on: May 30, 2010, 11:46:37 PM »
*as Zenthor said (COMMA)

I need a damn break from this game for a bit. We know where I stand, right? I'll continue responding to Alice but otherwise I'm done for the day, if no one else has anything to say... let loose the Beast of war.

Alice - you -did- pitnick/misinterp (one or the other, honestly, I don't know what happened with your SnowFire vote but you got very critical and something went off on one sentence and voted him solely off that) SnowFire.

Cotigo

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Re: DL Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #386 on: May 30, 2010, 11:48:03 PM »
Oh shit almost missed deadline because I was playing flash games. >_>

Okay.  So.  Radius the Amnesiac cop.  This.... does little to change my mind about Alice, neither does him piping in to agree with my case on Roukanken.  I don't really see the benefit to getting the answer to Snow's question, but... I'll give it a few minutes since Sasarai doesn't seem to have come back.  I'll give it like 5 minutes and then hammer.  Any objections?

Ninja.  Hey, look the answer, and something else.  This is bad because the only reason you gave for finding MC suspicious was the reporter charge, which some of us don't think was a strong one (especially since you didn't really say anything more than "MC IS REPORTING", and in light of recent mis-speakings looks even worse AFAIC.

I'll still give it a minute for someone to voice any objection to me hammering.  I want to be done with this day already.

Alice

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Re: DL Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #387 on: May 30, 2010, 11:48:27 PM »
return before deadline*

And yes, it wasn't based off of much. D1 case and all that. I still feel there was enough there that made voting him at that time not a wholly unreasonable concept, though.

Taishyr

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Re: DL Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #388 on: May 30, 2010, 11:49:24 PM »
It was... still (something) while you attacked Glen for the same on you, which feels off.

Well, we'll see.

Alice

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Re: DL Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #389 on: May 30, 2010, 11:49:39 PM »
And yes, I'm just about tired with this game myself, just wasted literally most of the day reading it only to get lynched. Oh well, my fault for vanishing for most of D2. Hammer away in 5 minutes if there are no objections.

Tohsaka Rin

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Re: DL Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #390 on: May 30, 2010, 11:51:37 PM »
I see no reason to further prolong the deadline. It looked like it was warranted for a moment, but it no longer does.

There will be no further conversation from this point. The Day has ended, and Alice will be sent as a sacrificial pig to ease Luca Blight's boredom.

Noyn and Xanth share similar fates.

Excal will come along later to present the flips, so please wait warmly until then.

- mod edited for great justice
« Last Edit: May 31, 2010, 12:20:52 AM by Sir Alex »

Excal

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Re: DL Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #391 on: May 31, 2010, 08:12:27 AM »
"I see no reason to further prolong the deadline," Kefka said.  No one was entirely certain where he had gotten the wonderfully bushy beard from, but no one felt inclined to ask.  Or at least, risk the consequences of asking.  "Radius will be remanded into the custody of Luca Blight whereupon he will be gutted lik..."



"Alright!  Who dares object to my verdict!"

"I do," stated a dapper man in a maroon suit accompanied by a scruffier fellow in a dirty coat.

"So, you've got a problem with us dragging this guy away," Kefka said, jerking his thumb and Radius, and seeming almost gleeful at the prospect of being challenged.

"Not at all," the fellow says, waggling his finger at Kefka.  "I come instead of this person." he says, pointing at Janice, the Chrono Cross Bunny Girl.

"What do you want with her?"

"Because she is really this," he says calmly handing over a picture from the Court Record.

"So you're saying that this bunny girl is actually a giant badger."

"A simple investigation will show there is no other verdict."



"Your honour, this pig is clearly insane!" Luca stated, with his brand new blue suit (of armour) and a new, different, spikey hair cut.  "Anyone can see the bunny ears, clearly demonstrating that she can only be a bunny pig!"



"Your honour, a prosecutor never goes to trial without perfect evidence!  And I shall present it!  Take a look at this photograph."

"Hah!" sneered Luca.  "You can clearly see the bunny ears in this picture."

"He's right!  An obvious sign that you're wasting the court's time.  I'll give you one chance to rebut before you're well done!"

"For a perfect prosecutor such as myself, one chance is all I need!  If you would just turn your attention to this spot here."

"The base of her ears?"

"Precisely.  If you note, that line right there is indicative of a hairband."

"Which means?"

"If you look further, you will see the width is of the sort used for novelty hairbands, and furthermore, the ears themselves are attached to the hairband!  Detective, if you would demonstrate what this means?"

"Sure thing, Mr. Edgeworth!"

"N-n-NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!" Janice screamed as Gumshoe reached out and easily tore off the fake ears, leaving behind a stunned court.

"It IS a giant badger." Kefka stated in wonder, as they all looked at the figure formerly known as Janice.

"I was fooled by a pig!" Luca wailed at the same time.

"Indeed," Edgeworth said as he gave a bow.  "A perfect case, with perfect evidence, for a perfect verdict.  The only thing left is to find his true identity.  Detective?"

Gumshoe also set to that with a will, quickly grabbing the Badger's head, as the person inside scrambled back, leaving the head behind, revealing Officer Mike Meekins.  And also revealing the gun in his hand.

"No!  No you won't!  I'm not coming back!  If you try it, I'll shoot you!"

"Hah, you can't trick me, Pal!  Even I know that the Bad Badger's gun only fires blanks!"

"N-n-n-NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

"Well, now that this is done," Edgeworth stated, "I think it is time for us to head back to the precinct, and have a very long discussion about your salary, officer."

And with that, the three of them left, the detective dragging off the catatonic officer.

"Well then.  Now that that delightful interruption is out of the way, I sentence Radius to be held by Luca Blight, to be slaughtered like a pig at earl"

"ENOUGH!" came the furious voice of Rolf Lansdale as he stormed out of the Gallery.  "I've had it to here with this farce, and I'm not going to stand for it anymore.  I mean...  I've even figured out who everyone else is and...  they'll make the more annoying parts of the DL be annoying somewhere else if we just let them do their thing.  So that's it, I'm leaving!"

"Hold on, no one said you could leave yet!" Kefka said in his most menacing voice as he began to loom over the departing Rolf.

This proved to be a poor choice of actions as the angry godlike simply blasted him with a shot of Megid and continued on his way.

Radius, seeing his chance also rose up in defiance.

"Aha!  As he stood against injustice, so will I stand against you!  Today, you face the finest swordsman in all of Termina!  If I can just remember where my sword is."

As he stood around trying to remember where it was, Luca simply walked up and cut him down, and with a glare, sent the rest of the group off into hiding for the night.

NOYN (Mike Meekins - SCUM BADGER) has had his salary renegotiated.
Xanth (Rolf Landale - TOWN GODLIKE) has walked off.
Alice (Radius - TOWN AMNESIAC COP) hath been slain.


Night starts now.  There will be at least 48 hours before Day 3 starts.

Alice Margatroid

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Re: DL Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #392 on: May 31, 2010, 04:58:02 PM »


I don't think anyone didn't see this one coming. (Amusingly, I had already made it a while ago for an MotK topic, as can be seen if you've been following the filenames.)

This is probably the worst possible outcome that wasn't a triple town flip, and even that is arguable because if there were still three scum alive they'd at least theoretically all be connectable to each other.

After MC caught that contradiction I was confident we'd see a ScumAlice flip, and had been racing theories through my head as to what that meant for the Day 1 trains. This was an unpleasant surprise to wake up to, and I'll be pretty much working from scratch. Not having had time to go through the topic properly again (ugh, not looking forward to that), my thoughts generally keep settling on Rat, who has managed to slide very smoothly onto both lynch trains at fairly opportune times. My gut (ugh x2) still doesn't like Yoshi for some reason but I can't pursue that in good faith if I don't find something logical to back it up. Still not a big fan of Tai either. The people least offensive to my memory are MC and Zenny.

Just woke up and don't feel like diving into this game first thing, especially not with 48 hours with which to work, so it'll be a while before I produce something more substantial.

Axel

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Re: DL Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #393 on: May 31, 2010, 06:03:42 PM »
Good evening DL Mafia! Are you ready...to ROCK!? By special invitation from Luca Blight himself(hey, it's a paycheck), The Dark Hero(that's me!) is here to serenade your senses with some classic rock and roll.

So let's get this show started with a little tribute to all my fellow vanilla scummies out there. It's a moving piece that I like to call Scum Killin' Roles, and it sounds a little something like this.

Are you gonna kill some town tonight
Ah they can't even try to fight
Are you gonna take somebody out
Scum killin' roles
You make the rockin' game go round

Hey
I was just a 'nilla goon
Never had no role to use
But I knew there's always something' I can do, huh
Stab a townie in the head
Gonna kill that sucka dead
Then act surprised that he's gone missin' on day two

Hey hey!

I've been singing with my band
Across the forum across the land
I seen every sharp eyed townie on the way, hey
While their logic and their guile
Might keep them off the rope a while
Scum just kills 'em in the night every time
C'mon

Oh wont you kill some town tonight?
Oh they can't even try to fight
Oh just gotta hope there ain't a doc
Scum killin' roles you make the rockin' game go round
Scum killin' roles you make the rockin' game go round

Hey listen here
I've seen big role madness games
With night actions gettin' all insane
But there's nothin' wrong with a vanilla role (I tell you)
Oh you can still have your hour
Still got your greatest power
Votes and night kills are what gives Mafia it's soul!
Now get this

Oh (I know) you gonna kill some town tonight (please)
Oh they can't even try to fight
Oh you gonna take somebody out
Scum killin' roles you make the rockin' game go round
Yeah
Scum killin' roles you make the rockin' game go round

Get on your comps and type!

Oooh yeah, alright, them scum killin' roles!


Thank you and goodnight everybody! No autographs, please.

(Standard Disclaimers: Yes, this is Gate. No, I'm not playing or making any comment on the setup. This is purely for entertainment value.)

Alice Margatroid

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Re: DL Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #394 on: June 01, 2010, 12:13:51 AM »


I was debating breaking my Day 1 vow and posting my Milfeulle cosplay as tonight's bonus content, but given the circumstances that's probably not in the best taste.

Spending the day away from studying the Mafia topic has left two things weighing on my mind. The first were my brief comments about Rat from my previous post, and only recently did I realize that I couldn't remember a risky stance Rat had taken. He's spent pretty much the entire game pursuing easy targets:

- Day 1 he spent most of the day pressuring MC who was doing all sorts of easy-to-pick-at newbie things before flopping over to a replacement for a player that had garnered a bunch of negative attention, for reasons I'm still iffy on. It is interesting to note that one of Rat's later-cited reasons for now thinking MC is town is because he expect "newish scum to lurk more than MC has" - where was this sentiment on Day 1, where, of the many charges brought against MC, plain ol' lurking was definitely not one? It is also interesting to note that all of Rat's other cited reasons for thinking MC town are for things MC did after his vote switch, which does nothing to explain why he switched in the first place given how enthusiastic he was about that case at the time.

- Day 2 he prefaces his Zenny case with "it feels like it took him a long time on day one to come out with a 'serious' case on me", and I'm not really understanding why that's a particularly bad thing given he didn't have a vote on Rat before that. I can see the "reactionary" charge as it pertains to Day 1; kinda ambivalent on it for Day 2, given his first post did promise thoughts (presumably meant to be a case, which they did turn into), though they came later than promised. That being said, opening the day with a defense before going off to pursue a case was demonstrated in this very game to not be a scumtell, as it's how Xanth opened Day 2 as well, so I somewhat question its use. The case on the whole I'm lukewarm about; it doesn't look terrible, but it doesn't really wow me, as it's really just "being reactionary on Day 1" combined with "this is a pretty incorrect post" (the specific nature of which risks diving into OMGUS territory but eh). I actually think the post Rat DOES bring up looks good on the whole in regards to the "reactionary" accusation.

The switch to Alice is just flat-out lazy, though, and I really don't like how he gives himself an excuse to not have to do any real work with "I'm too muddled to figure something else out". Your short paragraph on Roukan didn't show anything you liked about him while pointing out a couple of things you didn't like/points against him you agreed with; why not try pursuing that as well, even if you think your vote is still going to go Alice's way? Because you "would rather pursue [the Alice case]?" What was there to pursue? The guy had done basically nothing all game and literally nothing so far that day. You easily could have taken the time to decide which of your two minds about the Rou case you agreed with more.

Basically I am very unimpressed by Rat's entire Day 2, he kept a very low profile and the Alice vote was incredibly lazy (almost self-admittedly so). This stacks on top of questionable circumstances regarding his Day 1 switch from MC to Glen to make me think he is likely scum.

Post splitting here for the second thing.

Alice Margatroid

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Re: DL Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #395 on: June 01, 2010, 12:16:36 AM »


Only VSM will appreciate this. (Sadly based on a true story, but it does have a happy ending; I was able to trade him away and my only current bad contract is Donyell Marshall's, which is shorter and less expensive anyway.)

The second thing that's been bothering me is just how much of this game has been pixelbitching over semantics and different interpretations of things. Obviously the Xanth/Tai spat is the major offender here but there's been a good deal of it even outside of that. I don't think these sorts of arguments will help us; rather, I expect they distract us and do not find scum. I don't know how much of it I've been directly responsible for starting, but from my standpoint I feel like Tai's been doing it more than anyone else I've seen. I also now somewhat feel like I got duped into that Alice vote, like Tai was trying to shift attention away from the spat with Xanth and onto a lurker that had lurked so bad no one could really form a proper defense for him. Admittedly a good chunk of this is feeling more than the direct logic game, but there is some of that as well; Tai ripped Alice's Day 1 play up and down in the post where he voted for Alice. This is a very stark contrast to his Day 1 read of Alice, where he felt good enough about Alice to vote Glen over him, then to switch to Yoshi ahead of both, then to go back to Glen. Obviously nothing had changed about Alice's Day 1 play since then, because it was Day 2, and Alice's overall status having changed due to his hardcore absence is irrelevant to this particular issue.

tl;dr Tai goes from "okay" read to "terrible" read on Alice's Day 1 play without any actual change in that play, and uses that to substantiate a vote for an incredibly easy target (with the potential added bonus of distracting from the day's major spat). Do not like this at all, and my misigivings about his Glen vote that I discussed Night 1 and continued to discuss Day 2 still stand to a degree.

Do I think Rat/Tai is a plausible scumpair? Off the top of my head I don't recall anything that suggests it isn't; I know Tai wanted several of us to re-read Rat and give our honest opinions, but I believe that was before the Noyn modkill was announced. I will have to spend time later going through the topic properly to look for things that suggest/decry the idea of those two being a pair, though, and I'll also want to go over a couple of other people just so the entirety of my Insomnia isn't spent on those two (Roukan is, again, jumping to my mind as the most potentially offensive, so he'll definitely be one re-read, but we'll see where that goes).

Alice Margatroid

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Re: DL Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #396 on: June 01, 2010, 12:19:18 AM »


On a relatively unimportant side note, the topic title says "Day 3" rather than "Night 2". Just checking in to make sure this is a mistake and not some strange game machination.

Excal

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Re: DL Mafia (Night X+1)
« Reply #397 on: June 01, 2010, 12:41:59 AM »
Fixed.  For a given definition of Fix.

Alice Margatroid

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Re: DL Mafia (Night X+1)
« Reply #398 on: June 01, 2010, 11:24:24 PM »


Brief note: In writing this post I remembered that everyone appeared to have a vote on Day 2, which could mean many different things regarding Noyn's votelessness. Given he has now flipped scum, at this point I believe speculation on the origin of the votelessness is time-wasting at best and, if it is indeed the result of someone's night action, I believe that night action to be a null tell (i.e. don't go claiming it expecting to get townie cred for it if you have it). Hopefully this will be the most anyone has to say on the subject, barring some earth-shattering revelation.

Day 1 interaction between Tai and Rat, outside of joke votey things, is mostly limited to Tai's assessment of Rat here, if it can be called an assessment ahead of a list of actions. (For all the relevance it may have now, I did not try to spin MC's second set of reasons for her Xanth vote as her oriignal reasons, I asked her why they weren't her original reasons because Xanth had done basically nothing in between her two posts that I could recall. Given that, it came off as her getting called on having flimsy reasons for her vote and making up new ones to counter the pressure, which is scummy.)

Day 2 interaction is a little more substantial, and starts here, going through a few more posts after. The interaction doesn't feel like anything special one way or the other, it starts fairly reasonable before shrinking down to game theory. Then there's Tai's call for a Rat reread, though I question the specific request for original content; I don't believe agreeing with existing cases and voting based on that is inherently scummy, as sometimes people just make the cases you would have made before you had a chance to. Repetition is fine by me as long as one can properly explain why they agreed with the case they agreed with over the other existing cases made available to them. Given that I don't see a whole lot of "oomph" behind this request.

Tai's major Rat post is here. Lots of things Tai doesn't like about Rat, but the vote eventually lands on Alice instead with no particular explanation why Alice was chosen over Rat.

Ultimately, there's nothing I could point at and go "THIS IS CLEARLY A SCUM TEAM" (though I kind of want to lean that way after the Large Wall of Things Wrong With Rat that got one-upped by the complete 180 on Alice), but that wasn't the point of this exercise; there's also nothing I could point at and go "THIS IS CLEARLY NOT A SCUM TEAM". To maximize clarity here, Rat and Tai are my top two suspects, and nothing they have produced has convinced me that they could not be buddies, so I have zero issues with pursuing both.

---

Since Tai did mention my name when dropping his reasons for the Alice/Rat question, it would be rather rude to not at least give it mention. I'm not entirely sure what he wants, though, as I think even without removing so many names to do it, asking people about Alice and Rat was a reasonable thing to do. I don't think it's a tell one way or the other on his alignment, at least. My only concern with the logic itself is how many people get tossed out due to leaning town on them, and how Snowfire gets tossed for being ambivalent to the spat (scum would be stupid to attempt the "lead into a lynch of one and then the other" idea because they'd get called on setting up an "if X flips town lynch Y" scenario almost immediately). He admits most of it is for his own internal thought process, though, so there's really not a whole lot to say about it.

---

A Roukan reread will come at some point later tonight (though before the 48 hour deadline), but there's a decent chance his is the only one I will likely do. Zenny reads as the towniest player to me at the moment, as I thought he had a very solid Day 2. MC I have some paranoid thoughts about but I still feel is townie as I think a third scum partner would have tried to wrangle her in more given how much nothing Noyn did. I've decided Yoshi has defended himself decently so he's not a high priority anymore. Snowfire is the one other person I am likely to reread, as I don't remember a whole lot of what he did on Day 2, and that sort of feeling never sits well.

Alice Margatroid

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Re: DL Mafia (Night X+1)
« Reply #399 on: June 02, 2010, 05:12:17 AM »


For some reason, I cannot seem to wrap my head around this game anymore. Ugh.

I think Zenny's case against Roukan is mostly valid (though I think the game theory issue of how liberal one should be with their vote in ED1 is not a tell in either direction), but...I'm having an extremely hard time explaining why I favor the Rat and Tai cases ahead of it. I guess it's mostly because I think Roukan's votes have been better on the whole; none of them strike me as bad as the TaiRat Day 1 Glen votes or Day 2 Alice votes.

This is normally where several long paragraphs would go detailing each little thing Roukan has done, but I'm having a very tough time digging up the energy for it. Best I can offer is that I think, even with the questionable side cases (e.g. Zenny), Roukan's votes themselves have been for decent reasons, outside of arguable the one he cast when he first entered the game (though I can't fault him for it THAT much). In the case of the Glen vote, he at least had stated suspicion of the guy in his MC vote post, so it's not like it was completely out of nowhere, even with the player meta pass he gave to Alice. There's also this stuff I discuss with Tai that makes me wary of a Roukan case if Tai was trying to sell Roukan as scum using those reasons.

But then there's the almost-throwaway vote for Zenny after the Xanth modkill, with no mention at all of the Alice case and excuses for not having to do any more work like Rat. Ugh. The Day 2 lack of presence is very similar to Rat as well. The one obvious difference is that Roukan landed his vote somewhere where it was very likely to not make a difference while Rat shuffled the Alice train further along. Which one is worse? My heart says the Alice vote, because it doesn't know what ScumRoukan could possibly be looking to accomplish with that Zenny vote, but my head has no clue.

At this point I am more than exhausted with this game and would dearly like to see another flip and more night actions taking place and to get more opinions on the table. Currently I would not be at all surprised of our two remaining scum were in the Tai/Rat/Roukan group. Terribly sorry I'm not making more of this role than I am.