Author Topic: Season 59, Week 6 - Aw, no DARIO write-in for Super in Heavy  (Read 5028 times)

Tide

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Godlike:
Lady (SH3) vs Violetta (G3)

Heavy:

Lady Harken (WA1) vs Jowy Atreides (S2)

Middle:

Tohru Adachi (Pers4) vs Arche Klein (ToP)

Light:

Kain Highwind (FF4) vs Meg (Suikos)
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Dhyerwolf

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Re: Season 59, Week 6 - Aw, no DARIO write-in for Super in Heavy
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2010, 08:29:11 AM »
Someone should move this to the writeup board?

(Violetta, Harken, Meg. If they aren't posted, it means that my internet has gone completely feral on me)
...into the nightfall.

Tide

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Re: Season 59, Week 6 - Aw, no DARIO write-in for Super in Heavy
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2010, 08:52:04 AM »
I'll move that in now, assuming no one else is doing it.
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Hunter Sopko

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Re: Season 59, Week 6 - Aw, no DARIO write-in for Super in Heavy
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2010, 10:47:43 PM »
Might as well make this the discussion topic when it comes around.

Pyro

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Re: Season 59, Week 6 - Aw, no DARIO write-in for Super in Heavy
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2010, 06:20:45 AM »
Godlike:
Lady (SH3) vs Violetta (G3): Lady probably overkills immediately?

Heavy:

Lady Harken (WA1) vs Jowy Atreides (S2): Feel comfortable enough voting here.

Middle:

Tohru Adachi (Pers4) vs Arche Klein (ToP): Darkness mocking, right. Sure, damage mage > Adachi.

Light:

Kain Highwind (FF4) vs Meg (Suikos): Water Rune > Light.

Sei

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Re: Season 59, Week 6 - Aw, no DARIO write-in for Super in Heavy
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2010, 07:50:40 AM »
Heavy:

Lady Harken (WA1) vs Jowy Atreides (S2): I peg Harken at around 1.2 PCHP. Flash Judgment -> Hungry Friend should be enough to drop her while avoiding the Maximum Risk danger zone.

Light:

Kain Highwind (FF4) vs Meg (Suikos): Kain hates competent Water Rune users. See also match against S4 Sigurd.

superaielman

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Re: Season 59, Week 6 - Aw, no DARIO write-in for Super in Heavy
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2010, 09:14:10 AM »
Mm? Why does darkness mocking matter there? Can't Adachi just 2HKO with his physical or ID her with Ghastly Wail?

Godlike:
Lady (SH3)- One rounds

Heavy:

Jowy Atreides (S2)- I blame Peppita for this.


Light:

Meg (Suikos)- Thanks for stopping Amy's rampage, Kain! You die now.
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Dhyerwolf

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Re: Season 59, Week 6 - Aw, no DARIO write-in for Super in Heavy
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2010, 09:19:20 AM »
Godlike:
Lady (SH3) vs Violetta (G3)- Lady would easily one round, but is she alive to see that turn. I wouldn't be surpised if her first turn had a lag that let Violetta and scythe both double (Which is...near 3 PC HP damage). The scythe may not, but 2 Violetta turns +1 scythe is still pretty massive pain. However, I don't know how 1st turn G3 speed goes either. Just yeah, doesn't necessarily feel open and shut here.

Heavy:

Lady Harken (WA1) vs Jowy Atreides (S2)- 1.5 PC HP for Harken to me, which means that Jowy needs to do over 0.5 PC HP damage to finish her off, and that with another attack should put her in the fatal zone I think? Horrible connection=pain to math this out.

Middle:

Tohru Adachi (Pers4) vs Arche Klein (ToP)- Yeah, I'm going with Adachi 2HKOs her with his physical. Not sure she even 2HKOs and her big stuff is going to have a charge time.

Light:

Kain Highwind (FF4) vs Meg (Suikos)
...into the nightfall.

superaielman

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Re: Season 59, Week 6 - Aw, no DARIO write-in for Super in Heavy
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2010, 09:25:00 AM »
Can't Jowy chip arond with his L1/2's?
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Dhyerwolf

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Re: Season 59, Week 6 - Aw, no DARIO write-in for Super in Heavy
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2010, 09:54:27 AM »
She's faster and has what is (I'm assuming) ITE 3HKO. It's possible that she doesn't 3HKO Jowy, but I seem to remember her non-llimit damage to be around 40% and I don't think Jowy had 1.2 PDur (I could be wrong there too). Granted, if she does around 2 PC HP damage at no HP and has around 1.5 PC HP to me, even with only a third of her HP gone, she's still doing like 67% damage, which Jowy can't deal with. Well, if he could place his damage perfectly first round, it's not inconceivable. He just has to get it right turn 1. I'll look at it later when my net isn't so evil.
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Re: Season 59, Week 6 - Aw, no DARIO write-in for Super in Heavy
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2010, 01:39:30 PM »
Godlike:

Lady (SH3) vs Violetta (G3) - smash.

Heavy:

Lady Harken (WA1) vs Jowy Atreides (S2) - Harken is roughly PC HP to me. Chipping is -not- an issue.

Middle:

Tohru Adachi (Pers4) vs Arche Klein (ToP) - Adachi 2HKOs with what, Dhyer? His physical damage is a 4HKO to average before Heat Riser and Heat Riser raises that to a mere lowish-end 3HKO. Arche's probably not even below 90% pdur, ToP's durability curve is tighter than SH's - and I don't think the remake changed things around remarkably either. That said, Arche 2HKOs him and mocks the fact Adachi always goes last in the first turn. Heat Riser could make -some- sort of difference if it didn't mean it only meant he gets 3HKOed instead.

Light:

Kain Highwind (FF4) vs Meg (Suikos) - You do -not- get the excuse of Amy being awful this time, Scar.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Season 59, Week 6 - Aw, no DARIO write-in for Super in Heavy
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2010, 03:32:43 PM »
Godlike:
Lady (SH3) vs Violetta (G3): It's not inconceivable that Violetta instadoubles or 2HKOs, but I'm a little shaky on both calls, especially the first, and she needs both.

Heavy:

Lady Harken (WA1) vs Jowy Atreides (S2): 1.06 mdur Harken to me. Jowy probably just OHKOs, but doesn't have to.

Middle:
Idly, how many Middle does Adachi even lose to? A few of the best boss sluggers (Caina?). He seems to cover his bases very well for the division, although he hasn't exactly faced the best Middle has to offer this season.

Light:

Kain Highwind (FF4) vs Meg (Suikos): Kain hates 'dem healers. Meg's a reasonably competent one, too, with that one shot of Trick Rune going a long way in ensuring she doesn't run out of MP.

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Scar

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Re: Season 59, Week 6 - Aw, no DARIO write-in for Super in Heavy
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2010, 03:52:22 PM »
No, I just don't buy Meg beating Kain at all. His healing is infinite. Hers will run out eventually.

Plus, Haste + Blink if you want to allow After Years Kain.
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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Season 59, Week 6 - Aw, no DARIO write-in for Super in Heavy
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2010, 03:54:47 PM »
Quote
Idly, how many Middle does Adachi even lose to? A few of the best boss sluggers (Caina?). He seems to cover his bases very well for the division, although he hasn't exactly faced the best Middle has to offer this season.

Depends entirely on how you respect SMT boss HP and at what levels you see him facing - those things tend to vary really wildly and P4 level is the god stat to boot. Given how he's 0.7x PC HP to me, though, he gets reamed by greats such as Lute, which is a stellar start. Turn two ID and physical halving is nice, but having Jude-level mdur isn't so awesome, especially when you always go last (which some people may argue against, but P4 is a game with a functional speed stat that determines who goes first in battles and plot P4 bosses always go last in spite of that. I've no problems holding him against that).
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

hinode

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Re: Season 59, Week 6 - Aw, no DARIO write-in for Super in Heavy
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2010, 03:55:47 PM »
Middle:

Tohru Adachi (Pers4) vs Arche Klein (ToP) - Adachi 2HKOs with what, Dhyer? His physical damage is a 4HKO to average before Heat Riser and Heat Riser raises that to a mere lowish-end 3HKO. Arche's probably not even below 90% pdur, ToP's durability curve is tighter than SH's - and I don't think the remake changed things around remarkably either. That said, Arche 2HKOs him and mocks the fact Adachi always goes last in the first turn. Heat Riser could make -some- sort of difference if it didn't mean it only meant he gets 3HKOed instead.

Technically, checking the stat topic for the original Arche is 89.4% PCHP with dead average defense, and that's not factoring in Klarth's HP boosting accessory. <_< This is probably just a technicality though.

The real change in the remake is the damage average is a lot higher (at least if you factor in Pluto), which makes Arche's damage look a lot worse. No idea if this would have any impact on the match though, as I'm not familiar with Adachi.

OblivionKnight

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Re: Season 59, Week 6 - Aw, no DARIO write-in for Super in Heavy
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2010, 04:03:18 PM »

Lady (SH3) vs Violetta (G3) - Violetta.  Damage reduction works enough.  Close.


Lady Harken (WA1) vs Jowy Atreides (S2) - Harken.  Easily.  Gooooooo boss power!


Tohru Adachi (Pers4) vs Arche Klein (ToP) - The most interesting match here.  How do they stack up?  Assuming using the notes compiled in SMTP4 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,2756.0.html) and ToPo (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,217.0.html) stat topics...

Arche
HP: 5280 vs. 5905 average (89%) - Note that this does NOT take into account Klarth's HP+30% accessory...assuming that, the average HP is 6262, placing Arche at 84%
Def: 150 vs. 150 average

So her physical durability is effectively 89-84%.  She halves darkness with the Star Cloak, which is her default.  So, this would...halve the rate of Mudoon, effectively.  She deals 5500 damage with Meteor Storm (to a 5260 average, so 1.04x average damage...meaning to most, she 3-shots average).  Nothing else really matters for her, unless you assume her flying has an evasion bonus (in-game, her Run is below average, so...probably doesn't amount to anything)

Tohru Adachi
HP: 4200 - what this means depends on what you do with bosses!  Assuming I am doing thing right, let's compute some averages!  Let's take an average damage to randoms of 350 as noted.  With 4 PCs, and using what normal people use as a 2.5x convention...4200/(350x4)/2.5 = 1.2x HP.  You can argue the damage goes higher, based on levels or whatever else you end up assuming (note that these averages are assuming Auto-Taru and stat-boosting as an ideal damage average in these notes, as the endgame average hovers around 200-250!)
Def: Well, magically, Tohru has very high END (it's worse than first form Izanami, who just OWNS on stats, and the optional bosses, and that's it), which reduces magic damage.  Compared to randoms, it's about a 25% reduction in damage (ignoring level effects).  The reason the damage to him as a boss is low is because his physical resistance nerfs Chie and Kanji a lot, as their magic kind of sucks.  So he reduces magic by about 25% or so.

In terms of damage...Vorpal Blade is 42% average damage, 58% after Heat Riser.  Heat Riser ALSO reduces damage by about 40%, which pumps his durability up a lot.  And ups accuracy, so Vorpal Blade probably isn't missing against Arche evasion hype.  Halved Mudoon sucks, but Evil Smile+Ghastly Wail still works.  Incidentally!  Tohru 2-shots Arche if you assume Klarth's +30% HP boost in the averages.  

So the fight comes down to Arche killing Tohru before she gets killed back damage-wise, or Ghastly Wail kicking in.  Arche...does not 2-shot Tohru (1.04x average damage vs. 1.2x HP) before Heat Riser.  She does 3-shot him EXACTLY...on HP alone.  His defenses drop that to 4-shotting BEFORE HEAT RISER.  In addition, if you let bosses break sequences of attacks, Tohru can use Power Charge - Vorpal Blade (500 damage) or Atom Smasher and pray it hits twice.  Without Heat Riser >_>

So...yeah.  Really seems in Tohru's favour based on the notes posted above.  

WHAT CHANGES THIS
- Taking Tohru at a higher level.  Level 70 seems pretty good for Tohru and Ameno-Sagiri, but you can make the argument for higher levels, as Magatsu does have the highest experience gain in the game (higher than the final dungeon!...which is why no one argues higher than 80 for Izanami >_>).  I believe Snow does this, so that's where the lower Tohru damages come from (level 65 for Heaven, 75 for Magatsu are the levels he/she/it uses, if I remember correctly).  This STILL makes it a fight!  But it's far closer, and in general, more favourable to Arche (Tohru's HP are closer to average or below, his offense is relatively worse, as is his status).  But it's still not completely in her favour - Adachi's defenses still hurt Meteor Storm's damage, and Heat Riser may be enough to win.
- Uses weaker damages for Cless in the ToPo averages.  This puts Arche's damage up enough so that she much more easily 3-shots (even at best, she only can deal 1.16x average damage!).  Not that this doesn't help as much for the ToPr, as the damages of Klarth, Chester, and Cless are higher, and Meteor Storm is naturally below average to begin with (5000 to a 5500 average).  
- Assume Arche's boss forms from other Tales games.  >_>

Kain Highwind (FF4) vs Meg (Suikos) - DAMN YOU KAIN ROBBING AMY!!!!!
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OblivionKnight

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Re: Season 59, Week 6 - Aw, no DARIO write-in for Super in Heavy
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2010, 04:06:17 PM »
Quote
Idly, how many Middle does Adachi even lose to? A few of the best boss sluggers (Caina?). He seems to cover his bases very well for the division, although he hasn't exactly faced the best Middle has to offer this season.

Depends entirely on how you respect SMT boss HP and at what levels you see him facing - those things tend to vary really wildly and P4 level is the god stat to boot. Given how he's 0.7x PC HP to me, though, he gets reamed by greats such as Lute, which is a stellar start. Turn two ID and physical halving is nice, but having Jude-level mdur isn't so awesome, especially when you always go last (which some people may argue against, but P4 is a game with a functional speed stat that determines who goes first in battles and plot P4 bosses always go last in spite of that. I've no problems holding him against that).

Level is not as much of a god-stat in P4 as it was in P3.  The effect is effectively halved compared to P3.  Hence why the bosses tend to have more respect in general.  

Though yes, it still plays a role >_>  Just not as much of one!
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Pyro

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Re: Season 59, Week 6 - Aw, no DARIO write-in for Super in Heavy
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2010, 04:08:17 PM »
I'm just going to call BULLSHIT on allowing Klarth's HP +30% accessory when Black Onyx's flow like water. They are the same things with different names. By the time you get Klarth's you probably have 4 BOs anyway.

superaielman

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Re: Season 59, Week 6 - Aw, no DARIO write-in for Super in Heavy
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2010, 05:19:30 PM »
Quote
Idly, how many Middle does Adachi even lose to? A few of the best boss sluggers (Caina?). He seems to cover his bases very well for the division, although he hasn't exactly faced the best Middle has to offer this season.

Not much. He's like Margulis in that he tends to kick around Middle pretty well but struggles massively with heavies. Healers have trouble with Heat Riser/power charge nonsense, fighters eat the defense and PC's in general have to get through the status. Competent mages give him trouble, but he ran into all of none of those this season. There are enough quality mages in the division to make him in Middle reasonable, but he's a borderliner for a reason. He was helped by one of the worst middle fields I've ever seen as well.

(I also agree with OK that this match isn't close on paper unless you see Arche 2HKOing through Heat Riser.)
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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Season 59, Week 6 - Aw, no DARIO write-in for Super in Heavy
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2010, 05:34:59 PM »
I'd argue healers have more trouble against the ID than against Heat Riser/Power Charge, given how the setup time is -longer- and he misses the OHKO by a small margin from what I recall correctly, at least from L76+ accounts. That works against ID-immune healers who are sorta physically frail, but those tend to hang around in Heavy rather than Middle, and Heavy-level healers aren't terribly likely to fear Adachi unless they're like Cristo - so, it adds to your point. Also, Heat Riser is OPB unless that info was corrected, so he can't keep up pressure all that well if the enemy immunes ID and can survive a buffed assault.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2010, 05:38:10 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

superaielman

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Re: Season 59, Week 6 - Aw, no DARIO write-in for Super in Heavy
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2010, 05:42:15 PM »
You need to have fairly competent magical damage to outrace Ghasty Wail's ID or block fear, which isn't too common.
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Re: Season 59, Week 6 - Aw, no DARIO write-in for Super in Heavy
« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2010, 06:05:12 PM »
That level of respect for Adachi's ability to kill stuff baffles me. And respect for his magic durability... He was pretty much a pansy for my party. I buy him being awesome about as much as I do Jin/Takaya from P3.

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Season 59, Week 6 - Aw, no DARIO write-in for Super in Heavy
« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2010, 06:59:16 PM »
You need to have fairly competent magical damage to outrace Ghasty Wail's ID or block fear, which isn't too common.

Dude, he needs to inflict Fear off godly 30~% odds first in order to use Ghastly Wail. That's not scaring ID-immune mages unless they have Yulie-level damage.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

James_xeno

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Re: Season 59, Week 6 - Aw, no DARIO write-in for Super in Heavy
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2010, 08:20:52 PM »
Godlike:

Lady (SH3) vs Violetta (G3) - Profound Darkness


Heavy:

Lady Harken (WA1) vs Jowy Atreides (S2)


Middle:

Tohru Adachi (Pers4) vs Arche Klein (ToP)


Light:

Kain Highwind (FF4) vs Meg (Suikos) -         
« Last Edit: May 29, 2010, 08:22:23 PM by James_xeno »
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Re: Season 59, Week 6 - Aw, no DARIO write-in for Super in Heavy
« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2010, 08:22:46 PM »
Violetta sorta robbed PD. PD would've manhandled Lady, but that's how it goes.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....