Author Topic: Phantom Brave Mafia - Game Topic (GAME OVER)  (Read 22078 times)

Lady Door

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Re: Phantom Brave Mafia - Game Topic (DAY 1)
« Reply #75 on: March 06, 2008, 06:18:44 AM »
... really, Tom? You're not even going to try? :/

If you're convinced it'll be a mislynch, why not do everything in your power to set the stage for Day 2 with your final thoughts? Anything?
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superaielman

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Re: Phantom Brave Mafia - Game Topic (DAY 1)
« Reply #76 on: March 06, 2008, 06:29:41 AM »
This is really frustrating. Andrew's going back into lurker mode it looks like and Tom vanished again.

Think I'm ready to hammer though unless someone wants to add new content?

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AndrewRogue

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Re: Phantom Brave Mafia - Game Topic (DAY 1)
« Reply #77 on: March 06, 2008, 06:34:24 AM »
Not lurking, I just really have nothing I can add. Tom's roleclaim is neutral and his defense is... well. Not there.

EvilTom

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Re: Phantom Brave Mafia - Game Topic (DAY 1)
« Reply #78 on: March 06, 2008, 06:36:09 AM »
Well, I don't know what to defend *against*. I'm at -1, and the only reason I can see is that apparently I've been "off" and that my timezone is different. It's frustrating, because.. these are rather crap reasons. And yes, I'm off the net, so I doubt I'll be posting again. Bye!
This is your life and it's ending one minute at a time.

superaielman

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Re: Phantom Brave Mafia - Game Topic (DAY 1)
« Reply #79 on: March 06, 2008, 06:40:04 AM »
Ah. I think I'm going to end this round then. Tom: I really am sorry if it's just the timezone doing you in this game and availability, but you vanished when you had one vote left to go and didn't even leave any kind of helpful closing thoughts. While the roleclaim of Miller by Andrew in a game this tiny makes me -extremely- wary I'm not sure what else I can go on, but your last defense. Which ended up being nothing. I'll see you next game.

Of course, if you're scum, prepare for a just clubbin.

Edit: Yeah, that's not much of a final defense man. Hammer time.


##unvote:Andrew
##vote:EvilTom

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Tonfa

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Re: Phantom Brave Mafia - Game Topic (DAY 1)
« Reply #80 on: March 06, 2008, 06:41:45 AM »
HAMMER STOP POSTING ETC.

Typing up flavor now.
<Niu> If I ever see that Langfadood, i'll strangle him on sight
<Gourry> What, for making the game three times better?
<Gourry> And playable, at that?
<Niu> that lose the whole point of of L2!!!

Tonfa

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Re: Phantom Brave Mafia - Game Topic (DAY 1)
« Reply #81 on: March 06, 2008, 06:57:49 AM »
The discussion and debate on the matter lasted for a whole day, mostly fruitless in terms of answers. However, at the end of the day, two people in particular seemed suspicious, and their identities were called into question.

"Hmph. I'm Walnut. Yeah, that one who disappeared in a blaze of glory back then. Believe my story or not, I have nothing to do with this Sulphur business...how I got here is a long story, and even I don't know most of the details."

The other people in the assembly hall responded with a reaction of disbelief and shock.

"That's...unexpected. And you?"

"I am Raphael, leader of the White Wolf Army."

One of the questioning voices responded. "Well, I don't see how such an upstanding citizen could be inv-"

Someone raised their voice. "The last time some shady character claimed to be Raphael, they turned out to be a werewolf, you know."

A deep silence fell over Vapor Island.

A few moments later, everyone in the room simultaneously assaulted "Raphael".

He turned out to be the genuine article, though. His injuries should heal in about six months...

EvilTom (Raphael, Vanilla TOWN) was hospitalized!


Final votecount for Day 1:

AndrewRogue (2): Excal, EvilTom
EvilTom (4): Corwin, LadyDoor, AndrewRogue, superaielman

It is now NIGHT 1. Send in night actions now!
<Niu> If I ever see that Langfadood, i'll strangle him on sight
<Gourry> What, for making the game three times better?
<Gourry> And playable, at that?
<Niu> that lose the whole point of of L2!!!

Tonfa

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Re: Phantom Brave Mafia - Game Topic (NIGHT 1)
« Reply #82 on: March 06, 2008, 04:45:26 PM »
As the meeting reconvened in the morning, one among their ranks was missing. In a search of the building, they found that person...who certainly wouldn't be attending anymore.

A young girl, who had been receiving treatment for her legs for some time now, fallen out of her wheelchair to the floor, and into a deep coma. She probably would have been able to walk fairly soon, but now that ray of hope had been extinguished.

Corwin (Castile, TOWN Cop), has fallen into a coma!

The time draws near. The emotions of bitter despair and malice grow stronger across the land. The Island of Evil stirs...


It is now DAY 2. Deadline is in 48 hours. With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2008, 04:47:00 PM by Tonfa »
<Niu> If I ever see that Langfadood, i'll strangle him on sight
<Gourry> What, for making the game three times better?
<Gourry> And playable, at that?
<Niu> that lose the whole point of of L2!!!

AndrewRogue

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Re: Phantom Brave Mafia - Game Topic (DAY 2)
« Reply #83 on: March 06, 2008, 05:57:39 PM »
Well, that sucks. Times two. Blah. People! If you are town, you ought fight tooth and nail to survive. Even if you can't survive, it is useful. Don't just roll over. ;_;

Let's start the day off here right fast. Otter stands out for having disappeared and ending the day completely off-stage. My previous inquiries about his mistake, regardless of whether you think they matter or not, have gone unanswered. He had no vote down as well, which marks him as the only one. Considering his game style, that is rather surprising.

Excal continues to stand out a little more to me as well. With the death of Corwin, his odd attack (or, at least, prodding) of Corwin. I feel a similar about way about his justification for voting me, which feels greatly like a twisting of my words.

Taking some time to reread day one. Will post at some point in an hour or three.

superaielman

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Re: Phantom Brave Mafia - Game Topic (DAY 2)
« Reply #84 on: March 06, 2008, 07:45:13 PM »
Down to 5. Will you tell us when we're in LYLO, Tonfa?
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Luther Lansfeld

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Re: Phantom Brave Mafia - Game Topic (DAY 2)
« Reply #85 on: March 06, 2008, 07:54:54 PM »
No, you will NOT be informed of LYLO.
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superaielman

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Re: Phantom Brave Mafia - Game Topic (DAY 2)
« Reply #86 on: March 06, 2008, 08:25:08 PM »
Excal, talk please?
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<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

Excal

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Re: Phantom Brave Mafia - Game Topic (DAY 2)
« Reply #87 on: March 06, 2008, 08:28:19 PM »
Bloody hell.  There's a part of me that almost wishes we're in LYLO now as the only clue we're going to get now if we're not is an overly eagre to survive townie.  Which could be problematic.

Regardless, at least now we have a flip, and something to work with.  Like Andy, I'm going to be spending some time on a trawl, hoping to see if I can make any sense out of things now.

Edit: Here y'go Super.  Not much, but there will be more coming.

AndrewRogue

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Re: Phantom Brave Mafia - Game Topic (DAY 2)
« Reply #88 on: March 06, 2008, 09:20:21 PM »
Ho'kay. The problem with going back at this point is I've already iterated most of my feelings on what happened day one. So, instead, I'm going to try and get answers to some questions that I think might help me understand the game's position at this point better.

Excal, could you do me a favor and further explain your stances against Super, Corwin and myself?

Otter, could you do me a favor and well... post more? Explanations about where you were yesterday would be nice.

Super, what are your thoughts on Lady Door?

Lady Door, why did you ultimately go for Tom over me?

Excal

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Re: Phantom Brave Mafia - Game Topic (DAY 2)
« Reply #89 on: March 06, 2008, 10:04:25 PM »
Andy, you're going to be waiting a while to hear my case on Corwin because I don't have one, never did.  That vote against him was an attempt to besemi-serious early on and to see if I could drag out some discussion through an early vote.  As you can see, it failed miserably.  The one post after that prodding him was some stuff I saw that looked curious.  Aside from that, I had nothing, and he was one of the better looking people to me.

Super?  I didn't have a case against him day 1 either, aside from that one really odd argument.  And, like I said, Lady Door was, at the time, doing a fine job of following that lead.  Though, I do have more thoughts on him now, but this isn't the place for them.

Finally, as for yourself.  At the time of my vote, Andy, you were looking questionable.  Mostly just the fact that I couldn't see much of import added by your posts, and you had jumped on Otter who was, aside from one gaffe, looking decently solid at the time.  Of course...  much like the rest of your question, Page 3 and that chunk of the day I was out has led to some changes in my thinking.

Oh, Lady Door.  If you'd like, I could also go over your questions again if you so desire.  Though I'm not entirely sure how much relevance they have at present.

Notably, going over the topic again, with a larger chunk of time to go over things, and the results of a flip given, I've rearranged my thoughts on who is, and is not, worrying me.

Let's start with this.  I am assuming we're in LYLO.  It could be that this is like UOM Mafia and the scum cannot speak to each other, or there is some other mitigating fact in play to keep us from losing straight out.  Secondly, this means I am assuming there are two scum.  Now, of the five of us, three voted for Tom, one voted for Andy, and one did not vote.

Now, this means that one scum voted for Tom, at the least (since I know my alignment.  Your mileage with this deduction may vary, unless you're Otter).  So, let's look at those who voted for him, in order from who I find towniest to scummiest.

Andy, you're up first.  Not only is your reason the best (it's him or me, and I choose me!), but you also came onto a pretty strong kick in Page 3 after I was gone for the day.  Possibly this is due to those papers you mentioned, and the rise in the quality of your play does tend to corroborate this view, which I like.  The good strong start to Day 2 you've presented likewise leaves me impressed, and so I'm content at leaving you be at this point in time.

Lady Door comes second.  I'll admit, her scattershot approach appeals to me, as she posts often and always leaves us something to pick through.  That said, there's some things she's done which seem questionable.  The first and foremost of these is picking Tom over Andy when they were both tied at one vote, and when you had finished speaking against Andy.  In fact, the only time you really say anything specific against Tom is at the beginning of Page 2.  After that you argue against Andy plenty, and mention Andy a lot, but all Tom gets is vague rumblings of discontent.  Why did you never level questions at him, or call him out for not responding to your initial points against him?

Finally, Super.  His reasoning for voting Tom, as far as I can tell, was to avoid no lynch.  And sure, that's no scum tell, but neither is it a town tell.  After all, people knew he was here, while of the other three people who could vote Tom, two weren't present, and the other was Tom himself.  So, he'd have looked pretty bad if he was scum and chose no lynch instead of Tom.  The thing that really gets me about Super though, is the content he's added.  For the most part, he's just simply been either defending himself, or making vague ominous posts about implications for other people.  Namely, the comment on Corwin if Tom flips Town, and his fishing for roleclaims after he votes for Andy in the same post that he expresses misgivings about Tom.  This joins up with his only expressing an opinion on one person the whole day (his attack on me, which is the towniest thing he did all day) and generally keeping his post count up by constant defense of himself, poking other people to talk, and counting down the time.  In fact, he's already started this pattern today, with two posts.  One of them a request to know when we hit LYLO, and another requesting that I talk.

So, Super.  It's due time that this is requested.  What do you think of everyone still in the game?  Details would be appreciated, naturally.  Specifically, I'm interested in your take on Otter, who you seem to think is town.  Why do you feel he's town, and why did you feel a need to use that as a good argument that one of Andy or Tom is scum?

Now, I've spoken at length on the three people who voted for Tom, and what I think of them.  However, Otter also deserves special mention.  Looking back, I've seen more merit in Andy's arguments against him than I saw before.  Otter's original arguments were less bringing things up, and more tearing into the people who were voting for him.  He didn't really bring much else to the table before he disappeared.  And while I was willing to overlook his mistake when it was the only mark against him, the fact that Otter has disappeared for a day, and more telling, did not leave a vote, makes me very worried about him.

Otter, I'd like to second Andy's inquiries.  Why did you disappear, and why did you not use your vote?

superaielman

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Re: Phantom Brave Mafia - Game Topic (DAY 2)
« Reply #90 on: March 06, 2008, 10:30:46 PM »
Just posting to say I've read and I'll get to things in a few.

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Lady Door

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Re: Phantom Brave Mafia - Game Topic (DAY 2)
« Reply #91 on: March 06, 2008, 11:21:42 PM »
So... yeah. And we have no idea when we're in LYLO or if we are? That is slightly problematic. But then, I guess if I think about it, it's not as if it changes much. Every lynch SHOULD be as carefully calculated and examined as a lynch on LYLO, because every lynch is a step toward or away from that moment.

It's really hard to be coherent and analytical while Martin Lawrence is spouting off against British accents and archaic vocabulary (I'm watching <i>Black Knight</i>. In class. In an upper divion English course. ... yeah). A warning that I may be more scarce today and tomorrow than I was yesterday and the day before -- appointments, dates, research and all sorts of fun stuff.

That said!

Into the fray.


Upset with Tom for rolling over. Since Andrew and Excal both have essentially the same question for me, let me answer that.

Tom over Andrew, despite the things I had against Andrew?

Tom had never attempted to resolve any of the issues that had been brought against him. I do realize timezones played a large part in this. It's why I waited as long as I did, in fact. I really wanted him to come back and justify why he had said the things he did. This is what I said to/about Tom:

i) Tom seems pretty high strung. Post 1, squeaking in less than 1 hour before it had been an official 24 since the beginning of the game, is somewhat iffy, a la Otter's observation. There is just something about his tone that's rubbing me the wrong way, too. It's particularly pronounced in this post:

Ninja'd Edit: ...rather, post something relevant, man. While I realize that posting, in and of itself, can be good, it is not so good to come in, vaguely waggle a finger at another lurker and then retreat once more. I at least look like I read the topic here. You seem to be just dropping by to try and get rid of pressure.
No, sorry. I was just typing up a bigger post in the meantime, and I dropped that first one. Just bad timing.
Still, you could be nicer about it!

I agree with you 100% on points #2 and #3 though, you'll notice I independantly made the same observations. That gives some merit to them. I'd be prepared to go with LD, followed by Otter at this stage.


..then again, I'm currently leading on votes thanks to you. But you hadn't seen my 'big' post yet which I was still typing up. So I'll forgive you for now.


Magnanimity feels wrong to me a lot, but I think that's because it's often used sarcastically. In this post, he seems to be telling Andrew he'd OMGUS but for this forgiveness. He's also careful to point out he independently made the same observations as Andrew during a cross-post. Nevermind the fact that these observations are concrete things that required absolutely no logical deduction (other than "hey, Rat isn't in this game, that can't be right"). The interesting thing for me here is that, on the surface, this looks as innocent as "we both independently made the same argument, hmmmmmm, that could mean something" but I could easily see as "hey, people, ignore the fact that Andrew and I are agreeing in favor of this point we're making against these other people!" This is especially reinforced when Andrew's response to that post is to remove his vote on Tom and move it to one of those two people they agreed on. Yes, it makes sense concretely. In sequence, however, it looks a little different.

and

iii) I don't see the anger Tom says Otter is showing. I don't see that Otter needs to save himself with only one vote on him. In fact, in the very same post, you say there is no need for him to be super-jumpy about one vote. You can't have it both ways. He doesn't need to "save himself" if he's not in any danger. If you agree that he isn't in any danger, what is it that you see as him attempting to save himself?

In fact, if we're going to go THAT route, it looks far more likely that you're trying to do the exact same thing you're accusing Otter of. Especially since your post previous ends with you 'jokingly' going "curse ye, Andrew, for putting me closest to the lynch."

The language in this post is also supremely bizarre. "Obviously you're trying to curry favor with him..." Say what now? "Obviously"? "Curry favor"? Because he removed his pressure vote when it was responded to? I can see the confusion, since Otter does seem to be upset with Andrew in the short amount of text that occurs before he removes his vote, but he also says "...it looks to me like the pressure worked fine, because you're talking now" right before he does so.

I see Otter had the same response, and Tom hasn't been back since. Very well. Consider it a second call for an explanation -- I'd vote to put weight behind this, but -1 to lynch isn't where I want to be just yet.

So... I was waiting for him to come back and address those things, and the things other people had brought up. He checked in about 7 hours prior to deadline and said he'd be catching up, and I was really hoping that he would. See the end of this post: "With deadline inching closer and closer, my vote is currently between Tom and Andrew. I'm heavily inclined to vote for Tom at this juncture, but I would at least like to give him a chance to respond."

My ultimate decision was this:

And... now it's less than 4 hours to deadline. Tom hasn't shown up again. I'm utterly torn between Tom and Andrew. I have basically the same arguments against them -- mistakes, weird lines of argument, non-presence. Things are slightly differently emphasized, but it seems to balance out for me. At the moment... I think I'm leaning toward Tom. At least Andrew has the "here now" point going for him, which Tom is lacking despite having posted 5.5 hours ago that he'd be catching up.

That is, I would have voted for Andrew based on his answers, BUT we had someone who 1) wasn't talking; 2) had said weird things when he HAD spoken; and now, 3) didn't look as if he'd contribute more the following day. Tom was scum at worst or a liability to town at best.

... okay, class is running short and I need to get some things done this afternoon as I mentioned before, so I'm going to get this out here.

IN SHORT!

I said what I had to say about Tom and asked questions way back there in page 2. I had to wait for him to come back before I could continue to pressure him to address these things. He never did. Despite the fact that Andrew looked off to me and would've been my choice with all other things being equal, Tom had left everyone hanging on a bad note and didn't even seem to want to be bothered to address it. Redoubled, of course, when he laid down and died rather than saying ANYTHING. I'm sorry he felt the timezone and "gut feeling" was all that was against him, but it quite simply wasn't. So. Evasion and absence = bad for town and/or scum.

Third the call on Otter, since we're talking about absences here, and I'll try to check in as soon as I can.

((I apologize if the formatting or something is weird -- campus network is being really annoying and I can't see what's posting.))
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superaielman

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Re: Phantom Brave Mafia - Game Topic (DAY 2)
« Reply #92 on: March 06, 2008, 11:28:41 PM »
I'm about 90% sure that we have two scum. We almost have to, to balance out having a cop.
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Excal

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Re: Phantom Brave Mafia - Game Topic (DAY 2)
« Reply #93 on: March 06, 2008, 11:37:03 PM »
Don't try and metagame it too much, Super.  After all, if we only had one scum, we'd need that cop to ever have a hope of definatively picking out scum.  After all, two scum need to play off of each other, and leave us with hints and clues if we ever turn up the first one.  One scum?  Is just a survivor with nightkills.  No real way to pick them apart from the rest, aside from hoping they screw up and let slip the fact that they know they'll never find anyone.  A cop is much more helpful and necessary there than if there's two scum.

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Re: Phantom Brave Mafia - Game Topic (DAY 2)
« Reply #94 on: March 06, 2008, 11:40:02 PM »
Argh.  I was getting caught up late last night and had a post ready, only to be ninja'd by the hammer.  For the record, my vote was indeed going to Tom, partially because of his poor logic in attacking me but mostly because he seemed so disinterested in defending himself.  Turns out, that would have made me a part of a mislynch train, but it's what I'd have done if I hadn't been too slow.

Right now, though, I'm mainly interested in Andrew and super.

Quote from: Andrew
Suffice to say that, yes, there are answers that, in my mind, could be considered good and shift my view of Otter to a more positive one. There are also answers that would do the opposite. Either way, I find it better than "Obviously I meant Corwin" when the magnitude of the mistake is so great.

Post after post you make on this subject, each time raising the importance to a higher level.  If you feel so strongly about this, you have to see something specific about my meaningless error.  So why won't you tell us?  Unless, of course, you don't see anything important about it at all and you're only harping on it to try and pressure me.  I'd sort of respect this strategy, because putting people under pressure is an effective way of rooting out liars and scum, but nothing's changing on this score.  I misspoke for no reason.  If you're going to keep hounding me about it, at least tell me what it is that you see here that I don't.

Next, super asks for a roleclaim from Andrew when Andy's only at two votes...

Quote from: super
Also: Andrew, roleclaim please? It could help sway things. Just flavor if you want to hold a power role close to your vest.

...and he does it while saying just flavor is fine too.  What?  Flavor claims alone are useless; didn't we start this whole game by pointing out that lots of us don't know the flavor at all?  Besides, if it were that easy to figure out everyone's alignment by role, mass roleclaim would be an auto-win for town; I'm pretty sure Tonfa was a little more clever than that.  This roleclaim demand looks weird to me, because super's vote was already on Andrew; theoretically, Andy was already his top pick as a scum, so whatever he said shouldn't have made that big a difference, and besides, he was tied for votes with two other players so a claim would be pretty premature...

Quote from: Andrew
I'm Walnut, and hiding my power is pretty useless and pointless, so I feel no compunctions about coming out with it. I'm a miller. Go me.

...yet he gives it anyway.  With a blatant, outrageous lie about how claiming won't help scum at all.  Wrong!  For one thing, claiming miller automatically makes you look worse (for good reason, and especially in small games like this), so if you're an actual townie you'll be reluctant to offer a roleclaim unless you absolutely must.  This was clearly not a situation where you had to acquiesce to super's strange request; you weren't in any danger that two others weren't in at the same time.  Second thing, this makes the scum's game easier; that's one man down they don't have to consider killing in their efforts to hit power roles.  In a small game like this, that means their odds of hitting a real power role go way up.  Not only does this way-early claim not help you at all, since a real townie trying to dodge mislynch and keep confusion to a minimum would be reluctant to claim here, but if you're a real townie it also hands scum vital info for no good reason.

Not to mention that the miller claim looks a lot like insurance in case the cop decides to check you out that night.  We might be in LYLO, so I'm not putting my vote on Andy right this second, but he's my top pick at the moment, with super a bit behind for not really supplying his own opinions very often and also for asking weird roleclaims (and then, even more inexplicably, receiving them).  The way he waffles between the two choices and then hammers Tom just makes it look like he's covering all his bases before finalizing the decision that's already been made by everyone else.  It could just be reactive town play, but that level of safety always looks fishy to me.  Regardless, it's not as tangibly bad as the unnecessary and harmful roleclaim made by Andrew.

EDIT: We don't know how many scum are out there, and people who seem to have started out assuming two scum already make me anxious.  We don't know that yet, and if you're acting like you do, that makes me wonder why you're so confident.  We don't know the number of scum, and we don't know all the town roles either, so it's early to say our cop needs to be "balanced out" on the scum side (we could easily have negative townie roles on hand, for all we know, or who knows what; it's just a bad idea to come in with false assumptions).

EDITx2: Also what Excal said.

superaielman

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Re: Phantom Brave Mafia - Game Topic (DAY 2)
« Reply #95 on: March 06, 2008, 11:44:16 PM »
What we know so far: Town had a cop, probably lacks a doc. It's a 5:2 split otherwise we're dealing with a lone scum.. which I don't find likely at all with a confirmed cop floating around.


Confirmed town: Corwin, Tom. They didn't give us much to work off of here, which is really bad.

Lady Door: Think she's town. If she's scum.. well.. they're controlling the game in that case and we're in deep shit.. What strikes me as odd is how doggedly she went after me for one line, which did seem off. Otherwise, I'm not sure what else to take that's bad- high content posts and a lot of them, and she pushed Andrew hard for information during the last few hours of day one. Pretty much sure she's town. EDIT: I didn't even notice the Andrew thing before. Mmm, something to chew on.

Andrew: I'm of two minds about this. The miller claim and role work perfectly, but that could have also been drawn up by Tonfa. I thought he was scummier than Tom (Who felt like the victim of a scumtrain/getting lynched for timezone reasons I went over on day 1), but there wasn't much else to do on day one. I could either committ to a potential no lynch by leaving that night without changing my vote, or hammer Tom who refused to put up any kind of defense when the votes piled on.

Otter: I was fairly sure he was town day one- the votes piled on him pretty early for flimsy stuff and he did a good job defending himself. Now he's just sitting there doing nothing gamewise, which is a major red flag. Defend yourself, man. We can't really vote or do anything this day until you post.

Excal. Ignoring the day one stuff, I have three issues with your post.

1.  I defended Tom all day for reasons covered above. I had the same thing happen to me in FFT Mafia- getting to a game and finding that you're already pretty deep in the hole votewise makes it hard to come back from, especially wh en we're on such a tight time limit.

2. I tried to comment on as many things as possible. Where do you get it that I was playing defensively? If I was doing that I could have sat back and quietly let Tom get lynched, which would have been the good scum ploy.

3. The roleclaim stuff? I was fishing for the flavor of the roles, which is just as important in a game like this. Neither of the players knew Phantom Brave, so any weakness in the story or telling of the flavor could be a scumtell. Or if they came up with the Fake Raphael (Pretty sure he's one of teh scum), I'd have instantly voted against them. But as I made it clear to Andrew back in day one, I wasn't going for the roles themselves. As I'm the only player in the game who knows the PB.. yeah.

Other things I see:


Corwin was an odd choice for a nightkill, but that doesn't mean much. And it was bad luck, nailing one of the power roles.


Order of towniess right now as far as I'm concerened: (Me)>LadyDoor>...Uh? I'm not sure. We have one hardcore lurker in Otter, one person in Excal who seems to be setting off my scumdar but is at least moving the topic, and LadyDoor who is providing content and posting well but.. see my blurb above.

One thing I'm coming back to though- if LadyDoor's scum she did a good job protecting Andrew- putting the pressure on, only to go after EvilTom in the next second. Donno what to make of this.

I really, really want Otter to post now.
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superaielman

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Re: Phantom Brave Mafia - Game Topic (DAY 2)
« Reply #96 on: March 06, 2008, 11:51:06 PM »
I pushed for a claim for exactly that reason. I'm the only active player here who knows the Phantom Brave setting. A slip in the flavor is exactly what I was looking for and why I asked. A fishy sounding claim could really have pushed me one way or the other there. It's not so much mass roleclaiming but forgetting a detail or muddling something up slightly could be a scumtell. This is why I asked. I waffled and ended up hitting Tom because it was past bedtime and I didn't want it to go to no lynch. I didn't see anyone else on the boards or around posting. It was a mistake, but I'm not sure what else I could reasonably do after Tom's last post.


One other thing stands out about Excal: His comments about Andrew having a strong start to the day. Uh? He asked a few short questions and that was it. I'm really not seeing a strong start for him (Certainly not for myself either, not the point).
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Otter

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Re: Phantom Brave Mafia - Game Topic (DAY 2)
« Reply #97 on: March 07, 2008, 12:08:44 AM »
Well, good news, super!  I'm a-postin'.

Quote from: super
What we know so far: Town had a cop, probably lacks a doc. It's a 5:2 split otherwise we're dealing with a lone scum.. which I don't find likely at all with a confirmed cop floating around.

What's the point of saying "probably lacks a doc" here, at all?  Why are you doing the scum's thinking for them by speculating about roles this way and then making lots of assumptions based on possible balance?  None of this looks good to me.  We can't rely on any of this, and putting unreliable assumptions in our heads is a really bad thing for us right now.  We can't afford that.

Quote from: super
One thing I'm coming back to though- if LadyDoor's scum she did a good job protecting Andrew- putting the pressure on, only to go after EvilTom in the next second. Donno what to make of this.

So wait.  "If LD's scum, she did a good job protecting Andrew."  You're saying Andrew's definitely scum if LD is too, so if LD's scum then the two are buddies?  Strikes me as weird especially when you say
Quote from: super
Lady Door: Think she's town. If she's scum.. well.. they're controlling the game in that case and we're in deep shit..
You're basically saying "we gotta hope she's town, 'cause if she isn't, we're screwed already!" which is a godawful attitude to take, especially when the game's at high stakes, which it is right now.  More faulty assumptions for no real reason, and I'm really curious to hear how you're so sure that if LD's scum, she's buddies with Andy and was protecting him.  Looks a lot like an attempt to conflate the two so that if one gets lynched, the other goes too, and we all know how scummy and baseless those arguments are.

Also, hold up.
Quote from: super
I could either committ to a potential no lynch by leaving that night without changing my vote, or hammer Tom who refused to put up any kind of defense when the votes piled on.
and, in the same vein...
Quote from: super
I didn't want it to go to no lynch
but...
Quote from: super
If I was doing that I could have sat back and quietly let Tom get lynched, which would have been the good scum ploy.

First you say you had to hammer Tom to avoid the possibility of no-lynch, and also because he wasn't defending himself at all.  I'm -with- you here, this is what I was going to do if you hadn't beaten me to it.  Next, though, you say... you could have sat back if you'd been a scum playing defensively and let someone else lynch him quietly?  And not used your vote at all?  Why'd you change your mind about the possibility of a no-lynch?  One second it's a real threat you had to avoid by voting, the next you're saying you could have let someone else do it really.  Also, hammering Tom there would be the best defensive play if you were scum; not using your vote when you were clearly around and allowing a no-lynch to happen would make you pretty conspicuous in the following round.  I'm not saying it wasn't also a fine town move -- it was!  But saying a defensive scum would have done differently is, uh, not really true.

Excal

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Re: Phantom Brave Mafia - Game Topic (DAY 2)
« Reply #98 on: March 07, 2008, 12:11:10 AM »
Super, your defense of Tom didn't at all read like a defense of him, nor did your final posts read like a hesitance to vote for him based on that reason.  Your original point was a firmly stated desire to avoid putting him in that position which you yourself despise being in.  It's a fallacious position, but one I can understand.  However, your defenses after that were mostly centered on why you did what you did, and not on why you didn't think Tom was scum.  Tom hung NOT because there was a great argument on him (note how the best case against him was Andy's him or me vote) but because no one ever gave an argument as to why he wasn't scum.  He was never defended, and that killed him.

I also get the playing defensively thing from that fact that most of your posts day 1 were either defenses of your self, bombastic rhetoric about how you don't want to vote Tom, or a few sentances at a time going after someone.  And even then, most of that came out as vaguely ominous cases with no real meat to them.

Thirdly, people can lie.  If their claim is for something so basic as vanilla or miller, it's easy to just modify their PM with stuff from a wiki or FAQ.  Or, heck, if this game was made properly, just quoting their PM.

And, as for Andy.  Yes, he was asking questions, but he was asking specific questions.  That said, I was also hoping he'd have something more concrete by now.  But he was trying to give direction to the day instead of just saying 'talk more.'

AndrewRogue

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Re: Phantom Brave Mafia - Game Topic (DAY 2)
« Reply #99 on: March 07, 2008, 02:04:41 AM »
Back and catching up, back and catching up.