Electric Six and Other Hijinks from Ciato

[Luther Lansfeld]

I had honestly never thought about anti-feminist views in terms of FF4 but I can certainly see them, though I would argue that Rydia turns into a potentially strong character with what goes on.

I would also say that Rinoa manages to take feminism a few decades backwards in terms of what she ends up doing.

It's mostly the scene where Cecil's all like "Hey, Rydia and Rosa, stay in the back while we take this prince who has never fought before". and then he's all like "Hey Rydia watch my girlfriend for me." It shows his profound disrespect for his lady.

[Grefter]

What you mean to say is move bitch get out of the way.

[Dark Holy Elf]

I agree with a lot of things said in this topic so far, going to try not to parrot too much but it's inevitable.

I think FF4 is the better game, for a few reasons, although I'm hardly a huge fan of either.

FF4 is just fundamentally much more playable to me. I've completed the game four times despite my opinion of the game, but FF8 only once. Why? I even first played them around the same time (early in my RPgaming career when I tended to replay things). Obviously FF4 is shorter, that accounts for some of the difference. But the bigger issue is that the game flows in a far better way. FF4 does not waste time on shit like mid-battle drawing or managing chains of item creation to get the resources you need. FF4 does not waste time with long sections of plot (both games have shitty plot and awful female leads, but FF4 scenes never last more than 3-5 minutes tops I'm pretty sure, ending aside). FF4 battles flow more smoothly and are generally more balanced in terms of having a good challenge level; the game has some decent fights in there, instead of FF8's model of "this fight will be unpredictably mediocre to awful based on your junctions".

FF8's heart is in the right place in many cases. It's certainly a more ambitious game than FF4. Squall is a much bolder and more provocative character than anything FF4 can dream of. But FF8 is certainly the less enjoyable game to play. It pisses away some of its good ideas, in both writing and system, with bad execution of both, while FF4 is able to successfully be that light romp that provides enough of a challenge to be engaging. I sorta feel FF4 is what many Dragon Quest games aim for; simple and playable with nothing majorly offensive even if there's a lack of innovation in there (the fact that FF4 has a worthwhile main character and more interesting battle design than most DQs is just a bonus), which to me is superior to FF8's general mess, although I can see respecting ideas more than execution enough to flip this.

[superaielman]

I had honestly never thought about anti-feminist views in terms of FF4 but I can certainly see them, though I would argue that Rydia turns into a potentially strong character with what goes on.

I would also say that Rinoa manages to take feminism a few decades backwards in terms of what she ends up doing.

It's mostly the scene where Cecil's all like "Hey, Rydia and Rosa, stay in the back while we take this prince who has never fought before". and then he's all like "Hey Rydia watch my girlfriend for me." It shows his profound disrespect for his lady.

That particular scene makes sense, they need Rydia and Rosa to heal wounded men (Game mentions it outright afterward that they could've used Rosa's healing magic).


4>8 for me, but that's no surprise. FF8 is just not structured well-even ignoring the shortcomings of most PSX games (load times!), every single fight has the potential to turn to grind. I don't think there was any real way to curve the battles to have a real challenge level as well- either you have to sit there and junction like crazy to win fights or the game's a pushover if you bother to do much junctioning.

4's surprisingly balanced on challenge outside of the Dark Knight arc. I've had a few game overs this replay, and for the most part the game tries to make every PC good at something. Granted, there are failures (EDWARD, Porom) there.

[NotMiki]

4's surprisingly balanced on challenge outside of the Dark Knight arc. I've had a few game overs this replay, and for the most part the game tries to make every PC good at something. Granted, there are failures (EDWARD, Porom) there.

Seconding everything good Elfboy said about FF4.

As for character balance, I like that during the pre-final-party sections of the game there isn't much parity between party members.  That's realistic, and I think it livens up the gameplay a bit.  FF4's fast-paced gameplay and frequent party changes keep the occasional weak character from becoming a real drag.