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Author Topic: Nomic: TROTLR: Turn 8 (Bardikin)  (Read 20859 times)

Magetastic

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Re: Nomic: TROTLR: Turn 3 (Mageykins)
« Reply #100 on: September 16, 2010, 07:39:23 AM »
I meant order ties. Like, if absolutely everyone decides to Assault, who goes first? Also, assault is a little vague and some clearing up of how it works, exactly, and what it does would be appreciated.
<%King_Meepdorah> roll 1d999 for "It was beauty...that killed the mage"?
* +Hatbot --> "King_Meepdorah rolls 1d999 for "It was beauty...that killed the mage"? and gets 999."12 [1d999=999]
<%King_Meepdorah> ...
<+superaway> ...Uh oh.
<+RandomConsonant> ...
* +superaway shakes head.

Carthrat

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Re: Nomic: TROTLR: Turn 3 (Mageykins)
« Reply #101 on: September 16, 2010, 08:09:56 AM »
Yet another revision!

Assault is basically punching another player in the face and making him lose points. I clarified stuff about the order of resolution and cleaned up the assault text a bit (though I thought it was all pretty clear.)

304. Each player has four statistics, denoted as follows: Attack, Defense, Intelligence, and Spirit. Each of the values begins at 1, and on the inception of this rule, each player shall be awarded 10 additional points to spread between his statistics. When assigning these points, no statistic can be raised above 5. These points must be assigned immediately, and play will not recommence until this is done. The values are to be made public, and posted in the opening post of any and all Nomic threads.

During the proposal phase of each turn, each player may also take one of these additional options. These options are PM'd to the mod, to be revealed and enacted at the end of the proposal phase, before voting commences.

Assault: Select a player. Your opponent will lose 1d6+Your attack-His Defense points. The mod will roll dice and adjust the totals. (1d6 means a six-sided die, the sides consisting of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. Results will be taken from the side facing upwards after the die has been rolled. The mod may use a stand-in for the die, such as HATBOT, at his discretion, as long as it provides essentially the same sort of results.)
Protect: Select a player. Add your defense score to his defense score until your next turn. You are permitted to target yourself with this ability, as well, effectively doubling your defense.

Legislative Maneuvers: You may not use this ability during your own turn.

Select a player. The mod will roll 1d6 for each of you, and add the results to your corresponding Intelligence scores.

If your roll is lower, you suffer from an Injunction. This lasts until the beginning of your next turn, and you may not use Legislative Maneuvers while you are under an Injunction. In the proposal phase of your next turn, you do nothing. In the voting phase of your next turn, nothing happens.

If your roll is tied, nothing happens.

If your roll is higher, you can order the other player to vote in whatever manner you choose once, and he must comply. This ability must be used before your next turn, and may not be used during your turn.

Energize: Select a player. You may add your Spirit score to their Intelligence or Assault until the beginning of your next turn. This player is considered Energized. A player can only be Energized by one other player at a time. Further attempts to Energize that player fail until the first instance expires.

The actions are resolved in the following order- Protect, Energize, Attack, Legislative Maneuvers, meaning that a player who has energized or protected another will have this ability take effect before any other actions are done. When multiple players select the same option, they will be resolved simultaneously.
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Tonfa

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Re: Nomic: TROTLR: Turn 3 (Mageykins)
« Reply #102 on: September 16, 2010, 11:52:56 AM »
EDIT: Oops, by my count discussion phase ended before Rat's latest revision.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2010, 11:58:30 AM by Tonfa »
<Niu> If I ever see that Langfadood, i'll strangle him on sight
<Gourry> What, for making the game three times better?
<Gourry> And playable, at that?
<Niu> that lose the whole point of of L2!!!

Carthrat

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Re: Nomic: TROTLR: Turn 3 (Mageykins)
« Reply #103 on: September 16, 2010, 12:04:16 PM »
Doesn't actually stop us talking, but eh.
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Bardiche

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Re: Nomic: TROTLR: Turn 3 (Mageykins)
« Reply #104 on: September 16, 2010, 12:33:01 PM »
Haha wow okay.

Taishyr

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Re: Nomic: TROTLR: Turn 3 (Mageykins)
« Reply #105 on: September 16, 2010, 12:51:10 PM »
That'd be correct. It is now the VOTING PHASE, and the proposal on the table, from what I can tell, is:


304.Each player has four statistics, denoted as follows: Attack, Defense, Intelligence, and Spirit. Each of the values begins at 1, and on the inception of this rule, each player shall be awarded 10 additional points to spread between his statistics. When assigning these points, no statistic can be raised above 5. These points must be assigned immediately, and play will not recommence until this is done. The values are to be made public, and posted in the opening post of any and all Nomic threads.

During the proposal phase of each turn, each player may also take one of these additional options. These options are PM'd to the mod, to be revealed and enacted at the end of the proposal phase, before voting commences.

Assault: Select a player. Your opponent will lose 1d6+Your attack-His Defense points. The mod will roll dice and adjust the totals. (1d6 means a six-sided die, the sides consisting of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. Results will be taken from the side facing upwards after the die has been rolled. The mod may use a stand-in for the die, such as HATBOT, at his discretion.)
Protect: Select a player. Add your defense score to his defense score until your next turn. You are permitted to target yourself with this ability, as well, effectively doubling your defense.

Legislative Maneuvers: You may not use this ability during your own turn.

Select a player. The mod will roll 1d6 for each of you, and add the results to your corresponding Intelligence scores.

If your roll is lower, you suffer from an Injunction. This lasts until the beginning of your next turn, and you may not use Legislative Maneuvers while you are under an Injunction. In the proposal phase of your next turn, you do nothing. In the voting phase of your next turn, nothing happens.

If your roll is tied, nothing happens.

If your roll is higher, you can order the other player to vote in whatever manner you choose once, and he must comply. This ability must be used before your next turn, and may not be used during your turn.

Energize: Select a player. You may add your Spirit score to their Intelligence or Assault until the beginning of your next turn. This player is considered Energized. A player can only be Energized by one other player at a time. Further attempts to Energize that player fail until the first instance expires.

The actions are resolved in the following order- Protect, Energize, Attack, Legislative Maneuvers, meaning that a player who has energized or protected another will have this ability take effect before any other actions are done. When multiple players select the same option, they will be resolved simultaneously.

Taishyr

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Re: Nomic: TROTLR: Turn 3 (Mageykins)
« Reply #106 on: September 16, 2010, 04:42:54 PM »
VOTES!:


Points:

Excal: Yea
Bardiche: Abs
Magetastic: Nay
Rat: Yea
Tonfa: Nay
n!: Yea

The proposal was PASSED!

And now, as per the newly inaugurated rule, all players must create their stat sheet~ Once that's done, it'll be Tonfa's turn - once he makes his proposal, everyone will have 48 hours to discuss it!

First post being updated with the two new rules as we speak (Mage/Rat)

Taishyr

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Re: Nomic: TROTLR: Turn 3 (Mageykins)
« Reply #107 on: September 19, 2010, 01:39:52 PM »
EXCAL'S STATS: Atk 1 Def 5 Int 3 Spi 5

RAT'S STATS: Atk 1 Def 3 Int 5 Spi 5

N!'S STATS: Atk 5 Def 4 Int 4 Spi 1

MAGE'S STATS: Atk 3 Def 5 Int 5 Spi 1

THE VP'S STATS: Atk 3 Def 1 Int 5 Spr 5

BARD'S STATS: Atk 1 Def 5 Int 5 Spi 3

And now Tonfa gets to propose a rule and everyone gets to commit to an action! CHAOS!

Tonfa

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Mm. Really would rather not have had the amendment that allows you to use an action every turn. Oh well.

--

Well then. The initial ruleset is rather constricting and suffocating, and I would start to combat this. It takes a while, but it will improve our ability to make new rulechanges. Should our glorious nation be chained to the past? I think not!

305. Rule 110 is to be TRANSMUTED into a MUTABLE RULE on the inception of this rule.

For reference:

"110. In a conflict between a mutable and an immutable rule, the immutable rule takes precedence and the mutable rule shall be entirely void in effect. For the purposes of this rule a proposal to transmute an immutable rule does not "conflict" with that immutable rule."

Rather obvious, I would think. Now, this being a transmutation proposal, we need everyone to vote in favor in order for it to pass. I do not see much of an interesting future for this game should it be refused, and as such...
<Niu> If I ever see that Langfadood, i'll strangle him on sight
<Gourry> What, for making the game three times better?
<Gourry> And playable, at that?
<Niu> that lose the whole point of of L2!!!

Tonfa

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End Proposal Phase. Begin Voting Phase.
<Niu> If I ever see that Langfadood, i'll strangle him on sight
<Gourry> What, for making the game three times better?
<Gourry> And playable, at that?
<Niu> that lose the whole point of of L2!!!

Taishyr

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111. If a rule-change as proposed is unclear, ambiguous, paradoxical, or destructive of play, or if it arguably consists of two or more rule-changes compounded or is an amendment that makes no difference, or if it is otherwise of questionable value, then the other players may suggest amendments or argue against the proposal before the vote. A reasonable time must be allowed for this debate. The proponent decides the final form in which the proposal is to be voted on and, unless the Judge has been asked to do so, also decides the time to end debate and vote.

I applaud your chutzpah, and you have, for the most part, acted in accordance with this rule. Unfortunately I can't consider this reasonable, as not even one person has replied yet. Still, continue to fight for AMERICAN JUSTICE and you may yet prevail.

Tonfa

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I regret nothing

Surely you see that I am only acting for the sake of swift Justice !!
<Niu> If I ever see that Langfadood, i'll strangle him on sight
<Gourry> What, for making the game three times better?
<Gourry> And playable, at that?
<Niu> that lose the whole point of of L2!!!

Carthrat

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I see what you're doing there. How unsporting!

I am voting against this rule because Tonfa was attempting to use a loophole in the one I just passed, where actions must be declared during the Proposal Phase for them to take effect. In any case is it actually permitted for the proposal phase to be truncated to nothing?

Also I actually like this rule, since being able to elevate certain rules as inviolable seems like a valuable option.
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Carthrat

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Also, in more general terms.

People. Please don't say nothing in the proposal phase and wait until the very end of it to say things like 'haha okay', followed by abstaining or negative votes or things like that. Come on, put out your thoughts on things!
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Tonfa

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Well if you actually like the super rigid rule structure then sigh.
<Niu> If I ever see that Langfadood, i'll strangle him on sight
<Gourry> What, for making the game three times better?
<Gourry> And playable, at that?
<Niu> that lose the whole point of of L2!!!

Bardiche

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Hey now, I only abstained because I wasn't sure if I liked it, and I gave no commentary because I was busy. :V

That said, I want to know what the Vice President hopes to achieve here. I presume it's to mutate the rule to permit later rules to overrule previous rules, rather than have the old rules have absolute precedence?

Tonfa

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That would be part 1 of the three step plan to do so yes.
<Niu> If I ever see that Langfadood, i'll strangle him on sight
<Gourry> What, for making the game three times better?
<Gourry> And playable, at that?
<Niu> that lose the whole point of of L2!!!

Bardiche

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Consider my vote a Yea vote. I care little for complex systems by which to undermine each other, but permitting new rules to override old rules? A step forward!

Carthrat

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Yeah, I have a relevant question.

What rules will the changing of this enable that were not previously possible? Does anyone have any ideas? We can look ahead a few turns and think about along what lines we want to transform the game. I'm willing to be convinced if you can show me some options.
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Tonfa

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On further thought, I would like to approach this from a different angle that only requires one rule-change.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I propose an amendment to rule 209. If two or more mutable rules conflict with one another, or if two or more immutable rules conflict with one another, then the rule with the lowest ordinal number takes precedence.

If at least one of the rules in conflict explicitly says of itself that it defers to another rule (or type of rule) or takes precedence over another rule (or type of rule), then such provisions shall supersede the numerical method for determining precedence.

If two or more rules claim to take precedence over one another or to defer to one another, then the numerical method again governs.


I propose it read as follows.

305. If two or more mutable rules conflict with one another, or if two or more immutable rules conflict with one another, then the rule with the highest ordinal number takes precedence.

If at least one of the rules in conflict explicitly says of itself that it defers to another rule (or type of rule) or takes precedence over another rule (or type of rule), then such provisions shall supersede the numerical method for determining precedence.

If two or more rules claim to take precedence over one another or to defer to one another, then the numerical method again governs.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

More power to the proposals and less dealing with the unfolding the shady tangle of past rules, while keeping the respect of immutability.
<Niu> If I ever see that Langfadood, i'll strangle him on sight
<Gourry> What, for making the game three times better?
<Gourry> And playable, at that?
<Niu> that lose the whole point of of L2!!!

Bardiche

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Not as much of a fan of this one. We can just put "This rule takes precedence over Rules x, y and z" if we want to work within the rules. The immutable rule stating precedence does, however, have precedence still, so eliminating THAT one... is more vital.

Excal

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Ok, two real questions here, for both Tonfa and Bard.

1) Which immutable rules are you guys considering changing?
2) Why do you want to make immutable rules not matter as a whole?

Tonfa

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Mm. I just want to make it easy to do sweeping changes to the game.

That said the buzzing discussion is making it pretty hard to care about this.
<Niu> If I ever see that Langfadood, i'll strangle him on sight
<Gourry> What, for making the game three times better?
<Gourry> And playable, at that?
<Niu> that lose the whole point of of L2!!!

Excal

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Buzzing discussion?

Bardiche

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I agree; we need some more conversation. I will get on that when I flunk.

In the mean time I am hoping a change of this nature, specifically the one overriding immutable rules, will give us more flexibility in future rules impacting the game in a more interesting manner. Admittedly it would circumvent the entire transmute ruling, but I see little reason someone should first transmute a rule before someone can change it as all it does is add yet another round of red tape.