Register

Author Topic: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)  (Read 270557 times)

Random Consonant

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2207
    • View Profile
Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #1350 on: May 13, 2011, 05:05:46 PM »
None whatsoever.  The intro text skips but I assumed that was just due to some combination of button pressing.  Only problem I've been having is some minor graphical issues, but that's because the emulator I'm using is crap.

Out of curiosity, which emulator? (Would rather deal with the occasional graphical bug or skip than a textless game.)

Cassini/GiriGiri.  The site that has the translation patch also has a copy of it, but assuming you have a better comp than mine I'd use SSF instead.

Scar

  • Arriba!
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1475
  • Let the Disco Begin!
    • View Profile
Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #1351 on: May 13, 2011, 05:41:14 PM »
I still want to play that... why the hell hasn't anyone translated all three scenarios yet!?!

They're almost there! Scenario 3 is 6/7ths done.

Shale, when they finish, could you please send me a link or PM or something. I've been raging to play that game for almost half my life now.
"It took hundreds to kill me, but I killed by the thousands."

RPGDL Fantasy Football 2010 Champion

Shale

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5800
    • View Profile
Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #1352 on: May 13, 2011, 08:22:41 PM »
Actually, it looks like the info I checked was wrong. According to the official translation site (as opposed to the behind-the-scenes forum I was checking), the first pass through scenario 3 is done. So click the "official translation site" link and go nuts.
"Sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology."
-Ponder Stibbons

[23:02] <Veryslightlymad> CK dreams about me starring in porno?
[23:02] <CmdrKing> Pretty sure.

Sierra

  • N I G H T M A R E E Y E S
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5135
  • Go get dead, angel face
    • View Profile
Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #1353 on: May 14, 2011, 12:48:12 AM »
VP2: God dammit, I feel like i could have potentially really liked this game, except that the level designs just kind of pissed me off and getting certain accessories for skills is faq bait, and which characters have better moves is faq bait and more faq bait and blaaaaaaargh.  Also there is like 3 different copies of each type of accessory in the game which if you are too lazy to sell off like me makes it so you have to sift through like eleventy billion copies of junk to find the one type you are looking for, though that's my own fault for being paranoid of selling some random rune/color combo that may have been needed or something.  I may or may not come back to try the after game at some point in the distant future, just having to deal with three stages of "your entire party can be poisoned through immunity if you make a wrong jump hope you brought 50 dews!" can just go die and pretty much removed any enjoyment I was getting at the time for this playthrough.

Palace of the Dragon, I assume. Yeah, it's pretty infuriating (though I hated the swamp more, personally). The game doesn't pull BS like that again with dungeons, at least. Otherwise:

-You don't really need to go out of your way to get certain accessories unless you're being obsessively completionst. VP2's not really hard enough to demand that for the sake of progressing. Most everything you need will generally come through normal combat.

-You don't really care enough about money in VP2 to bother with selling accessories, from what I recall. I don't remember it being much of an issue or accessories being worth a lot of cash, at least.

-Inventory bloat...yeah, that's a thing. No getting around that one.

-The best VP2 party is Alicia/Rufus + two other people. It doesn't really matter who as long as they're not mages. Full archer party will generally see you through, really.

Jo'ou Ranbu

  • Social Justice Steampunk Literature Character
  • New Age Retro Fucking Hipster
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 12988
  • Ah'm tuff fer mah size!
    • View Profile
Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #1354 on: May 14, 2011, 12:51:59 AM »
Actually, full archer party is -the- way to go in the maingame. Equip the 2x ranged damage sealstone, twink your archers elementally, 2HKO Odin with Phyress.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Meeplelard

  • Fire Starter
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5356
    • View Profile
Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #1355 on: May 14, 2011, 01:14:15 AM »
I'd give credit to having a Heavy Warrior in the team to be honest.  They're good for soaking up damage, and if you can pull of an Soul Crush Chain, they're excellent characters to hit on the end.

Plus some bosses like to resist elemental damage which can hurt Archers a bit; just having an extra hard hitting character in the mix doesn't hurt.


Though yeah, generally speaking, Alicia+Rufus+2 Non Mages (Ideally at least one Archer) is the way to go.
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

Excal

  • Chibi Terror That Flaps in the Night
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2603
  • Let's Get Adorable
    • View Profile
Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #1356 on: May 14, 2011, 09:44:59 AM »
VP2

If you like insane amounts of micromanagement, you will crush it beneath your iron heeled boot.
If you do not micro manage or otherwise make the system weep, then it will laugh over your broken corpse.

So far as I can tell, not much middle ground here.

DjinnAndTonic

  • Genie and Potion with Alcoholic Undertones
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 6942
  • "When you wish upon a bar~"
    • View Profile
    • RPGDL Wiki
Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #1357 on: May 14, 2011, 10:04:50 AM »
I ran the whole of VP2 generally just using story PCs, only using Einherjar when there weren't enough story PCs to go around. This included using lots of Light Swordsmen and at least Lezard as a mage. It was only hard during the earliest dungeons, really. And I tended to have a lot of fun using the dash system for positioning advantages. It made the game into a mild challenge.

It's not quite -that- polarized, it's just very breakable.

DjinnAndTonic

  • Genie and Potion with Alcoholic Undertones
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 6942
  • "When you wish upon a bar~"
    • View Profile
    • RPGDL Wiki
Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #1358 on: May 14, 2011, 02:36:56 PM »
I play games~

Pamela's Big Adventure Trinity Universe: So I figured I should play this before I have to return it to Tal.

...holy crap this game is hilarious. Also, a really solid ARPG/TBRPG hybrid system. Kinda VP-ish.

Storywise, the original characters actually mesh really well with the crossover characters. This is a first. Currently playing the Dog King path where you recruit Etna, Prinny, and Pamela from Mana Khemia. This is the best group ever.

Pamela: You really shouldn't be so scared of me. Just think of me as a cute immortal girl mascot who's a little transparent and likes scaring people sometimes!

Prinny: *scared* Dood, but PEOPLE can't do those kinds of things! Ghosts should just talk to ghosts!

Pamela: Don't be so ghostist~

Yeah, it's really silly and tropetastic, but it's fun~

The fast-pace of the battle system really makes it easy to just keep playing for extended periods of time, and reminds me a bit of Mana Khemia mixed with VP. The game feels worthy of a stat topic, though I don't know how unique the characters will be at endgame given the Ability system. Still, weapons and managraphics and finishers seem to be unique, so that should be something. And hey, 4/9 of the PCs are already ranked~

Talaysen

  • Ara ara~
  • Administrator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2595
  • Ufufu~
    • View Profile
Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #1359 on: May 14, 2011, 06:33:39 PM »
...holy crap this game is hilarious. Also, a really solid ARPG/TBRPG hybrid system. Kinda VP-ish.

It's not really an ARPG at all.  It's a TBRPG with a timer.  That is completely different.

It's not really like VP at all.   It's Legaia 2 with a timer.  That is completely different.

and Pamela from Mana Khemia Atelier Violet.

fix'd

The game feels worthy of a stat topic, though I don't know how unique the characters will be at endgame given the Ability system.

I was planning on doing one but never got around to it.  Probably some time after you return it to me.

All of the characters' combos are unique in the sense that they have differing mults (and sometimes use differing attack stats) and they all get four passives.  Other than that they don't really have much.

---

Oh yeah I play sstuff too.

Tactics Ogre PSP - Finally recruited Deneb.  Can get back to finishing the plots now.

Ar tonelico Qoga - Finally got to phase II.  Still find the gameplay okay but mostly everything else is bad.  <3 Symbol of the Wind though.

Black Sigil - Got cursed and my sword stolen.  ffffantastic

Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors - spoilers i am trying to escape from a room

The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky - Chapter 1.  Need to go to Ravennue to DETECTIVE it up.

SnowFire

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4964
    • View Profile
Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #1360 on: May 15, 2011, 07:04:20 AM »
Final Fantasy 13: Chapter 13: 1.3/13

Man, I am lazy.  Part I of my Final Fantasy 13 rant was written in February!  And now it's the middle of May!  Time flies.  ( http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,5556.msg125334.html#msg125334  for a recap.)  I had this mostly written awhile back but just needed to finish it.  Seeing the reports of Square-Enix's huge loss in 2010 thanks to the disaster that was FF14 ( http://games.slashdot.org/story/11/05/13/0535227/Square-Enix-Facing-Big-Losses-For-2010 ) prompted me to finish this up.  Part I covered Chapters 10-12; I'm ranting about Chapter 13 and some general unfinished points the game raised in Part II.

Before I get going, I should first state that on the whole, I enjoyed the game. I liked the battle system, which is a big deal - combat was consistently fast and fun, and they mixed things up nicely. I'm willing to give some credit to *parts* of the plot, the music was great, and the graphics were beautiful. So, good. Hell, I enjoyed Sands of Destruction, a game with ultimately a less deep battle system and far more plot problems (prolly a 6/10), so FF13 at least merits a 7/10.

I'll add that, like some other friends of mine have said, FF13 seems to be hated on for some bad reasons.  I'd also say that the game this is most reminiscent of is FFX, despite walking in expecting to find an FF7 remix.  Similar to FFX, the character customization is pretty much illusory. You only get party member choice for the last third of the game, and there's not really much exploration or sidequesting, and the game doesn't notably speed up once you know what you're doing (unlike say FF6), so the replay value is pretty much nil here.  It's not great for FFX either, but at least I can imagine interesting challenges / handicaps for FFX, plus there's more world to explore and enjoy, rather than just watching plot scenes again. This is something I'd hold against the game far more in my younger years, but considering I've never replayed FF5/9/10/12 either, it's not so bad. So yeah, I don't consider the very linear progression of the game a big deal, or the super-linear dungeons. Your average RPG is super-linear as well, you just get the illusion of options by being able to wander to the wrong spot on the map rather than the town you're supposed to go to, or, if they're feeling really nice, other towns that won't advance the plot until you go to the "correct" town. So yeah, not a big deal.

Also, I don't buy disliking the game because of Snow or Hope, the two characters who seem to draw the most hate. They're fine. Without venturing into spoilers, if the game has a weak spot in the main cast, it is most definitely Fang and Vanille. Vanille is secretly the new main character for the last quarter of the game, or at least should have been, and rather than stepping into the role Celes-style, she just kinda stays the detached observer floating with the plot rather than driving it. This... is a big problem.

Getting into the bad... well. There's really just one bad, and it's a doozy. I play RPGs largely for at least one of good characters (Game Arts games) or a good plot (FFT, FF12), preferably both (FF10, SH2, Suiko3). And man does FF13 drop the ball on plot from Chapter 10 on.  Shockingly little happens in Chapters 10-13, yet it still manages to be really stupid.  An impressive feat.  If they'd taken the most generic route possible, it'd have been better.

Here there be spoilers.

Chapter 12 - the last bits

Okay, Snow's NORA crew shows up. This makes absolutely no sense that they'd be in the right place at the right time in such a fashion - what were they doing on Eden? How did they know where Snow was? but whatever. This is the kind of plot hole I don't care about because they needed to find an excuse to check up on these guys again - narratively they needed to be included somehow. That said, the coolest way they could think of for them to help was to open a gate? You can do better than that.

A whole bunch of soldiers turn to Cieth! So Roche's band was a bunch of Cocoon l'Cie? Given intentionally failing missions, or is this due to Orphan's hypothesized instability? Also not sure I approve of having the transformation be instant. This is horrifying. Make it be like Resident Evil with a full 10 seconds of piteous moaning before switching to BRAINS mode.

Roche is on our side after all! But might fight us anyway! Because! Okay, fine, this actually isn't TOO bad at this point after they've already switched his motivations, but meh. They needed to show what he was up to in Chapter 8-10.

Chapter 13

And... what. The Cavalry turned into Cieth? Huh? Were they all l'Cie too? Or turned into l'Cie when they attacked Eden then given hopeless Focuses?

Blatant last dungeon vibes here. But that doesn't make any sense- or rather, it does if we were trying to get the "bad ending." Orphan is where we'd go if we WANTED to turn into Ragnarok and eliminate Cocoon. The actual quest is to save Cocoon, ne? We have no guarantee that Barthandaelus is there, and moreover, no reason to think we can actually really defeat him yet, since he's just cheerfully shrugged off the first two fights as playthings. There are still two hard quests, and both seem to be being ignored - A, stop the civil war and mass panic, and B, get rid of the brands so that we don't turn into Cieth. It sure looks like we're attacking Edenhall / Orphan right now to blow up Cocoon, so I kinda doubt we're really succeeding at A, and the quest to get rid of Pulse brands made the most sense on Pulse, where we could theoretically have researched the issue, or at least talked to a Pulse fal'Cie. Except that quest got ignored. I'm totally fine with this, except that this means that the party is going to turn Cieth after they fail to blow up Cocoon, and I doubt FF13 has the stones to do a Shadow Hearts 2 ending. Alternatively, they explain how their focus was something different after all, but with no Pulse fal'Cie available, I dunno how they're going to sell that. Sigh.

Orphan's Cradle. We're apparently trapped here. I'm glad that the Cavalry "destroying" Orphan was a ruse, although a bizarre one and one that makes Our Heroes look worse for not seeing through it. Was it really necessary to use them anyway? It still doesn't make much sense, since it seems becoming a l'Cie in the first place is fairly rare.

Next up. In general it's not good to think too hard about why monsters are in location X in an RPG, but it's notable here. Doesn't Bart WANT us to get to Orphan and blow it up? Why does Snow have a daft line about "they sure don't want us to get there" or the like? The "reload from save plot dump text scroll" provides an explanation, and one I actually kind of buy, but it's the type of thing I'd really like if they brought up in game! According to it, the goal is to get us to "lose" a battle, then become Ragnarok in fear / desperation / etc. This is a neat evil plan! Reminds me vaguely of Alucard's game overs in Symphony of the Night that suggested that he reverts to normal vampirism. But it's really something that could have used an explanation of since is the first we've heard of such an effect, and the characters never discuss the possibility in-game.

Right, final confrontation time. Difficulty on the final series is actually pretty tough, which I approve of. I do NOT approve of "surprise we took away your ultimate grinding area and any treasures you might have missed by zapping the final dungeon!" Seriously, WTF. I guess it was an excuse to go side-quest in Pulse which I probably never would have bothered with, but the Pulse baddies drop significantly less CP then the re-fightable subbosses which each drop 20,000-30,000 CP a piece in the very last section of the final dungeon. Nice way to give people an easy way to grind if the final boss gives them trouble - if and only if they saved at the second-to-final save point rather than the final savepoint. Bah. Anyway the final did kill me repeatedly until I grinded a bit + got some better equipment. Also Instant Death on a boss in a game where main's death = Game Over is kinda annoying, but I sort of respect wanting to discourage too stally strategies.

Plotwise, fight 1->fight 2 is fine. It retroactively makes Bart's antagonizing the party make sense, although I'm unsure how much credit to give the game designers for this. It was so bizarre for Bart to lecture the party to do his will AND for Bart to attack the party. If Bart IS Orphan in a sense - that Bart must die for Orphan to be born, and then for Orphan to die - then he was just baiting the party the entire time into killing him. That's kinda cool. The party still gets the mark of shame for fighting Battle 2 at all with Orphan, as at this point they truly have walked entirely into Bart's plan, no excuses, this was obvious from the beginning, sigh.

Form 2->Form 3... now here's where things fly off the rails. In an especially frustrating manner, since FF13 flirts with SEVERAL interesting idea for a satisfying final battle / ending, and then discards them. So, as a reminder, after you win the fight, Orphan emits another burst of energy and knocks you all back. Then starts basically torturing our narrator Vanille and trying to taunt her into becoming Ragnarok. Fang offers to become Ragnarok again to spare Vanille... Which is a MAJOR BETRAYAL of everything the party stood for, including Vanille herself, who has decided that she loves Cocoon and thinks the "war" between Cocoon and Pulse was stupid. The game also implied that Fang had resolved this after collecting Bahamut, although Fang never really said "fine, I'll save Cocoon" herself, so sure.

Now, I'm still sort of okay with this, but it makes me pumped to kill Fang now. Everyone is still knocked back from the earlier blast. Fang starts transforming. At this point, I'd be totally cool with the final boss being Fang-Ragnarok. You must kill her before she can kill Orphan in her rage and doom the world. That would be pretty badass. END ONE POSSIBLE SOLID FINAL BATTLE. Okay, carrying on. After Fang starts doing this, in an instant, the rest of the party becomes Cieth except for Vanille. I'm ALSO fine with this. It means that the Pulse fal'Cie which made Lightning / Sazh / Snow / Hope really WAS trying to save the world and stop the war (FAILED), while the Pulse fal'Cie that empowered Vanille and Fang wanted to break stuff (ABOUT TO SUCCEED). That makes a lot of sense and solves the question of whose focuses were what.

So the Cieth start mindlessly beating down on Fang. Fang begs Vanille to run. Now if they wanted to do the uber-dark ending, I'd be cool with this! Your characters mindlessly save the world as monsters by beating up Fang and making her back down from the transformation as she realized in horror what she's done. Your PCs then wander looking for people to kill, while Vanille alone is left to run back into the world knowing the horrible truth of how the world was "saved." Very Lovecraftian. It'd be a massive kick in the nuts since your party did pull an uncontrollable stupid by coming to Orphan's Cradle in the first place, but this is still a valid place to end.  Alternatively, if you want to do Cloud / Sephiroth style badass duels, I always do like the duel among former friends. Vanille alone challenges a hesitant Fang-Ragnarok, say. Fang is confused and much weakened to be fighting Vanille herself which is why Fang-Ragnarok would be beatable at all. END ANOTHER POSSIBLE AWESOME FINAL BATTLE. Still ends with Vanille the sole survivor, which is probably too dark, but it's legit.

So, if you want to do a badass fight but with happy ending potential, kill Fang, save Orphan, figure out something. Get Orphan some psychological counseling or something. Hesitant as I am to recommend this, maybe even go fight the Maker (= God) via some asspull about how this will cure Orphan's madness, if you don't want to fight Fang. But nope. We're going to choose the least appropriate battle 3 of the final sequence possible.

Back to FF13 recap reminder. Vanille is in tears, stands her ground, and then... the rest of the party goes back to normal for some reason. Because they're heroes. This kind of devalues everyone else who became a Cieth, but eh, it's late, this isn't totally unreasonable. There's something pushing them forward, a new focus or something? But what was their old focus? How did they fail it? For that matter, what is their new focus? It's kind of implied that their old focus was to blow up Cocoon after all, but hold that thought, 'cause it's about to be implied false. Also we never ever *talk* with a Pulse fal'Cie in the game so I'm totally in the dark for motives on switching focus.

Our heroes also talk Fang back down. Meh, but okay. It would be a gameplay-related kick in the nuts if you're used to using Fang to have "surprise! Can't use her anymore," I'll grant.

Then...
......then....
..............you kill Orphan anyway in another boss battle for no damn good reason.

what. what. WHAT. Battle 2 wasn't so bad because Orphan attacked YOU, self-defense instinct, the battle stopped without you "killing" Orphan anyway, etc. Battle 3 is explicitly picking a fight with Orphan, with some yammering about him being poison in Cocoon's heart for so long. No, no, no, no, NO NO NO NO NO. Plot FAIL. This was the entire thing we've been trying to AVOID THE ENTIRE GAME. Reality is breaking down outside because of Orphan's flickering influence! How the hell does killing Cocoon save it? Do we have a Plan B? What the HELL? I liked FF13's plot angle of "for once, your quest is to NOT kill something" rather than the usual "kill the Dark Lord, save the world," and we just threw that away without the narrative realizing that we now have fallen heroes.

Anyway, we "win", which depowers Cocoon. And causes a mega-disaster or something of Cocoon starting to fall from Pulse's sky (Cocoon looks like a moon from Pulse). How many people are killed by this? Who knows. Then Fang & Vanille together become Ragnarok. The combined Ragnarok then, rather than blowing shit up, basically saves the world in a very nebulous way - creates a giant crystal pillar for Cocoon to rest on as it falls from the sky and freezes it there. The endgame shows ships coming down from a presumably devasated / deserted Cocoon onto Pulse. But there was ABSOLUTELY NO REASON TO THINK THIS COULD BE DONE. This wasn't a "bad guy just blew up the world, we need to improvise right now!" deal. This was "We just blew up the world!" Give me some assurance they knew this wouldn't kill everyone first before we do something like this in a fit of pique. Compare this with, say, Alex & Luna escaping from the Goddess tower after it blows up, because well magic. She is a goddess after all, and it was an unplanned emergency. I understand that narratively you don't want to "spoil" your twist by having the characters discuss on camera the cool plan, followed by the cool plan happening. But if you omit that step, then I want to be able to assume that they were able to CREATE this cool plan in the first place. Considering the clashing emotions and ideas on what to do with Orphan just before, no, this was Fang and Vanille just getting a divine revelation that summoning the ultimate power and becoming Ragnarok might be a good idea or something. Oh, and the other PCs lose their brands, uh, 'cause. Since we don't know anything more about Pulse l'Cie, I can't judge this plot element for plausibility... but again, what was the focus Light / Sazh / Snow / Hope failed? And what was the new one? They comment on how Cocoon looks thoroughly destroyed, but I thought that was the old focus, and... screw this. I like not spelling out foci for me explicitly but when I puzzle through it you have to have at least one answer that makes sense. Multiple answers is fine, 0 answers that make sense are not.

So. Sighhhhhhhhh. We blow up the world 'cause and probably kill a bunch of people off-screen. Go us. Or something. Damnit. I still blame "Vanille" characterwise, because I feel she should have steered Chapter 11 and for that matter Chapter 13 more than she did. She's the one who doesn't have amnesia and knows something about what Pulse was like. She easily could have plot-dumped interesting information, or made a stand somewhere, but just kind of floated along wanting to save Cocoon, but ultimately FAILING. Sigh. Sigh.

--
Some other holistic plot notes:

I liked the worries expressed earlier about how to deal with enemy soldiers, and Sazh wondering if it wouldn't be better just to turn himself in and die. This expands to the populace's fear of Pulse later on... except the characters don't really ask themselves that question. It's solely part of the villain's mwahaha speeches. i.e. "I will drive them into a frenzy of fear where they'll tear each other asunder." I would really like for the PCs to address the issue somewhat, too, and think abuot it! The closest we get is them wondering if they'll have to fight through some more guards in Chap 9, and dismissing it with "Nope, they're fanatics for Primarch Dyseley." How do you fight fear? Oddly enough, Pluse l'Cie killing everyone is not really going to help a point about "Pulse l'Cie aren't evil and nothing to fear!" But maybe there's no choice. Deal with the issue! struggle with it! Even if the ultimate conclusion was "Crap, there's no way, we're just going to make thing worse, but we have to keep fighting," that'd be okay. Shame. Your characters never really try and stop Barthandelus's fear-mongering either - the NASCAR sneak attack being the worst example of this, of course, but even otherwise, they aren't really trying to spread their own propaganda about being no threat.

Barthendelus's motive: Nobody in the game other than Bart ever talks about the Creator other than Bart. The closest is the Pulse archive found in Oerba, which obliquely mentions the Creator stepping in personally to bail the world out of a catastrophe... which raises an interesting question, is Bart intentionally trying to make a catastrophe to get the Creator's interest? "God only shows up in emergencies, so let's make one?" The game never addresses this, or lets your party found out any more details. Sigh. So we have no idea if God is evil, or if God is good and Bart had a Lezard-to-Lenneth style of attracting his attention, or what. This whole plot thread was lame anyway. They should have stuck with simple "immortal's cynicism." "I've been around thousands of years, tasked with helping humanity, and I've come to despise you all and hate my job. End this farce." Keep it simple. I can buy that.

Eidolons: I can't take credit for this as an original thought (Tonfa pointed this out), but some of these scenes felt misplaced. Lightning's was unarguably the best one, and a great scene regardless - Lightning chewing out Hope as slowing her down and being useless while struggling along, watching a giant magic rune appear, and having the proper "this cannot be happening" deadpan response. Makes sense in-game, too, this is the Eidolon saying "it's not safe to travel alone, idiot." Snow & Fang's were fine. Sazh... okay, it appears at a major plot point for Sazh, but it's clashing to have "woo hoo, fire motorcycles!" directly into "suicide attempt." They should have killed the usual "yay I won!" drive-around there. Hope and Vanille's were plain misplaced. They both occur for no damn good reason during angst-sessions on Pulse. Hope needed to have his be in Palumpolom - there was even a giant fleet of ships to unleash an Eidolon on to help make that escape a bit more plausible. Vanille... well, I've already complained about how they handled Oerba, but Vanille needed to get hers in Oerba along with more interesting plot revelations than what actually happened in Oerba.

Pulse: I already ranted on this in part I, but I'm going to bring it up again. What did they want to do with Pulse?! I still don't know. I can only assume this was intentionally withheld for sequel-fu, but they don't even give us good vague hints at what went wrong here and why everyone is dead.  Or if everyone is dead.  Wandering around Pulse again while leveling up for the final, I found a random Hope / Vanille scene which was kind of interesting in that Vanille once more praises the value of lying... oh, Vanille. You could have been Citan. Instead you were more like the NPC who knows the cause of the world's suffering but sat in his hut waiting for the heroes to arrive to tell them about it, but never do anything about it in shame.


vs. other Final Fantasies: FF13 is so weird. I think both it and FF12 are 7/10 games, but for radically different reasons. FF12's villains actually made sense, for one. FF12 felt like it made a living and breathing world as well, while FF13 kind of skipped out on this (even if for semi-understandable reasons). At least I got to know FF12's world better, at least. FF13 is at least probably better than FF5 - they both have solid gameplay, but FF5 has an actively crappy plot, although at least a semi-consistent crappy plot. FF5 has more "blah" characterless characters too, while at least the full FF13 cast has some solid potential.

Off the cuff ranking: FF6=FF10->FF7->FF8=FF4->FF12->FF13->FF9=FF5->FF3(DS)->FF1?

Since I've finished FF13, I've also finished Final Fantasy 12: Revenant Wings, Alpha Protocol, and Radiant Historia. Should probably review them as well some time. The super-fast turbo version:

FF12RW: 7/10? But a high 7. It's fun! And Vaan and Penelo have *character*, and lines, and are authentically the stars of the story! Weird! In fact the whole cast is fun and has character, and the game has a fairly solid adventurey plot too. It's just a little weird that the gameplay is VaanCraft the RTS. And that literally every tune in the game is taken from FF12.

Alpha Protocol: 7/10. Also fun. Is Deus Ex with modern technology. The plot... is fun enough, but really doesn't work if you look at it closely enough, but this tends to be true of most spy fiction. Also, I can't imagine not playing the game stealthily. It becomes a bad Halo knockoff if you charge in guns blazing, but sneaking around and CQCing people out Solid Snake style never gets old.

Radiant Historia: 9/10. Some minor niggles here and there but great battle engine, great plot idea, pretty good characters.  Pretty much agree with Random Consonant's plot dump of thoughts on the characters - wish they'd done Viola or Dias / Selvan a little better, and the Big Villain has one rather notable hole in their plan - but whatevers.  Damn fun.

Playing Secret of Monkey Island special edition on PC, Valkyria Chronicles "I'll finish it this time" edition on PS3, and Metroid Prime on Nintendo DS at the moment. Oh and more StarCraft II, of course.

Hunter Sopko

  • Heavily in Debt
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4556
  • Hai, Kazuma-desu
    • View Profile
Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #1361 on: May 15, 2011, 07:09:36 AM »
FF12? Good plot? I like the game, and while it had a great story, but the plot jumps ahead with such randomness, leaving so many details out for the player to figure out/make up on their own, that it's hard to call it good.

Clear Tranquil

  • Garden of Innocence
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2331
  • Your dreams shatter and burn! Punishing! Blossom!
    • View Profile
Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #1362 on: May 15, 2011, 10:34:40 AM »
Uhhh I'm pretty sure it's actually Hope who reassures Vanille about hiding the truth in that scene too so yeah >_>

Edit:  Here's the scene again -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rqCGGWbm4A

Yeah it's Hope who praises the virtue of it >.> Vanille was doing her "pull stuff out of thin air in an attempt to cheer people up/reassure them" thing again, then when she sort of questions it/refers to the consequences of it, Hope steps in with the reassurement/encouragement there <.<

I will also add that it is Vanille who asks/questions if they are really doing the right thing in the final chapters, again being ushered forward by others/the pace of the circumstances/plot (need to recheck exactly which scene this is in though) and later she is the one most reluctant to leave Rosch behind/enter Orphan's Cradle, only for Sazh to put his arm around/behind her and guide/move her forward wherein the door then closes behind them >.> Even later still she is about to give up or something saying something like "I can't do this! All these Cie'th were people once, like us" only for Hope to chime in with a cheerleader routine again saying that's what Barthandulus wants us to do, he's trying to get to us, we can't let him/we can't let him win, etc, etc. Perhaps she could have done more there sure but she didn't do nothing.

There's also one major difference between Celes/Vanille and that is the quite prominent role Vanille has in the ending, even being the focal point (along with Fang) for the camera when it zooms in for the very end of the ending. That role in FFVI, goes to Terra. Another similarity there is that Vanille like Terra has a sort of face off/stand up to the final boss thing which again is something Celes doesn't have irrc.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2011, 12:21:55 PM by Clear Tranquil »
"A Yeul that loved to sing. A Yeul who wished to travel. A Yeul that collected flowers.... Every one of them was unique"

Bardiche

  • Guest
Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #1363 on: May 15, 2011, 12:16:11 PM »
* Bardiche reads comments.

People take their vidya game way too seriously.

superaielman

  • "Mordero daghain pas duente cuebiyar/The fear of death holds not my heart!"
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 9632
    • View Profile
Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #1364 on: May 15, 2011, 12:22:00 PM »
FF6 Eviltype: Finished, killed the Czar dragon at L40. Team is Terra/Edgar/Setzer/Gau. I had tons of fun with the game- it makes FF6 stand up to the nastiest things you can throw at it, including quick/ultima spam. Will probably go back to VC2 or FF13 after this.

"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
-------------------
<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

Tonfa

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 866
    • View Profile
Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #1365 on: May 15, 2011, 12:45:01 PM »
Good to see the rest of the FF13 rant. I mostly agree with the assessment, with the exception of not enjoying the battle system much until chapter 9ish. Sazh-Vanille sections were OK but the rest of the 2 person parties were just abominable after getting to use 3 PCs for a short while early on.

Rhapsody DS: Beaten. Would have been a nice light romp but

<RichardHawk> It's kind of awesome but then its generic cave fetish goes so far it actually has a generic cave eat you while you are exploring a generic cave and then you have to get out of two generic caves to find another generic cave.

That is no exaggeration. Dungeon design sinks it back to average, and it only gets that high because it has already mapped minimap and autobattle.

Dissidia 012: Got all the labyrinth gear.

Ys Seven: Beat up the flame dragon. Boss design just isn't matching up to the standards of Felghana or Origin, though the music is equally amazing.

Naruto UNS2: Flashy shallow fighter for PS3. Provides fun 2P so mission successful.

Yakuza 3: I found some shady scientist in a back alley that hooked me up to a virtual reality fighter. Now I know how to use brass knuckles.
<Niu> If I ever see that Langfadood, i'll strangle him on sight
<Gourry> What, for making the game three times better?
<Gourry> And playable, at that?
<Niu> that lose the whole point of of L2!!!

Meeplelard

  • Fire Starter
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5356
    • View Profile
Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #1366 on: May 15, 2011, 02:25:05 PM »
FF12? Good plot? I like the game, and while it had a great story, but the plot jumps ahead with such randomness, leaving so many details out for the player to figure out/make up on their own, that it's hard to call it good.

FF12's plot was good when it was THERE.  Which is to say, everything up until Raithwall or so.  The plot sort of dies alongside Ghis, and doesn't pick up again until...Arcadia, which unfortunately there, its now degraded to "Madman wants to rule the world, he has a mad scientist henchman, STOP THEM!" with even cliche shit like "YOU'RE THE CHOSEN ONE!" with the Occurria and all that. 

I don't think a game suffered as much as FF12 from simply dropping its plot, let alone as early as it did, as FF12 did.  Cause all the stuff early on actually had potential to some cool stuff, but the game decided to just say "screw it".  I understand why from the developmental side, but that doesn't change the fact it still happened (it just makes the developers more forgivable, NOT the game; if a game fails at something, it fails at it.)
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

Fenrir

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2397
  • Social Justice Archer
    • View Profile
Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #1367 on: May 15, 2011, 04:26:08 PM »
Torchlight: Near the end of my rogue vanquisher playthrough.
I rely exclusively on Needle arc spam + a few regular attacks to get MP back (I found a very fast +12 MP/hit weapon) I've died about 25 times already. Stab looks weak, Venomous Dirk is underwhelming so far, I need to level it up some more.
Hamstring looks really fun, because it makes the main character pretend she's a plane. Actually, the biggest downfall of this game is that she's not saying "I'm a plane!!! Woooooosh!!" whenever she's using it.
Unfortunately, it's based on dexterity and magic, and I almost only have strength and defense. Sigh. Why magic. How does this even make sense. I am running around pretending that I'm a plane like an idiot. What's magical about it.

Outland: So derivative and yet so good.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2011, 04:29:11 PM by Fenrir »

DomaDragoon

  • Lazy
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 426
  • Boink.
    • View Profile
Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #1368 on: May 15, 2011, 07:05:52 PM »
Limbo: Beat it. Was vaguely unsettled through the entire time I played. I guess I'd recommend it, but I know I'm not touching it again.

Captain K.

  • Do you even...
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2176
  • ...lift books bro?
    • View Profile
Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #1369 on: May 15, 2011, 08:08:53 PM »
Last Remnant: beat the Eldritch Dragon.  I don't want to skip the Fallen because I could get all quests complete if I beat him.  But my stats are so bad relative to my BR that I don't know if I can.

DQ9:  I love when Legacy Bosses are weak to the primary element they attack with.  Go go Fire Fource vs Orgodemir.

Dhyerwolf

  • Mod Board Access
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4736
  • Here it comes, the story, of mankind's final glory
    • View Profile
Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #1370 on: May 15, 2011, 08:52:12 PM »
Good to see the rest of the FF13 rant. I mostly agree with the assessment, with the exception of not enjoying the battle system much until chapter 9ish. Sazh-Vanille sections were OK but the rest of the 2 person parties were just abominable after getting to use 3 PCs for a short while early on.

Given how badly Sazh and Vanille synergize overall, I'm surprised that they were the only two person party you could stand at a point. Also, as usual, fail SE at having that bad a bomb of a fiscal year despite all the high selling properties they have.
...into the nightfall.

Clear Tranquil

  • Garden of Innocence
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2331
  • Your dreams shatter and burn! Punishing! Blossom!
    • View Profile
Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #1371 on: May 15, 2011, 09:15:42 PM »
Wanted to address SnowFire's post some moar!  :)

"Also, I don't buy disliking the game because of Snow or Hope, the two characters who seem to draw the most hate. They're fine. Without venturing into spoilers, if the game has a weak spot in the main cast, it is most definitely Fang and Vanille."

Fang doesn't get hated/is forgiven because she's badass/cool/the best PC in the game or something (actually believe it or not though I have ran into at least one vehement Fang hater) >.> ) Vanille actually does draw a lot of hate because of voice acting issues/moans/being used as blatant fanservice in general with the skirt shots/battle shots/Heca thing (her VA actually said in an interview that Square Enix directed her to act that way in battle/etc too <.<) but gets forgiven/liked by some people because ... uhh I don't know really ... I just know I'm not the only who likes kooky characters like Vanille! I suppose part of it is because she's a lot more plot relevant/important than most of her sister stereotypes in the other FFs (the spirited young girl/kid type) She also visibly shows a variety of different emotions like anger/frustration/sadness/tears/guilt/etc compared to them rather than just being so damn happy all of the time, there's reasoning behind Vanille's facade early on. Eh I suppose I just identify there. She's also the second best PC in the game or something! *nods* (arguably the best for the final boss even and the best there is for Long Guis and some of the missions) *nodnods*

Briefly going to bullet point cover other stuff -

*In regards to Snow's daft line irrc there's another one with Hope that you can get while you're running around if you have him in your team in the final dungeon where he basically says something like "If we destroy Orphan, Cocoon will fall and we'll have completed our Focus right?" The game/other characters seem perfectly ok with this! >.>

*Pulse grinding - Fight more turtles! :P Seriously though Pulse has a number of grinding/training/farming spots even without farming/factoring those in, the Behemoth at the start of the Steppes is one, the Behemoth/wolf creature just outside Mahabara on the Steppes is another,  Mahabara circuit looping is a third. The Cactuars are also supposedly good though I never tried those for grinding myself. On my own FFXIII replay I had all Stage Nine roles maxxed for everybody and 999'999 CPs in hold (then again I did abuse the Growth Egg and Adamantoise/Long Gui farming there too <.<)

*Haven't you heard the one where it was actually Pulse himself who branded all six of the characters!? Seriously according to the Ultimania that's how it goes. According to the novellas it was the same Pulse Fal'Cie who branded Light/Sazh/Snow/Hope at the beginning (Fal'Cie Anima) that also branded Fang/Vanille hundreds of years ago too (but it's true form was actually Pulse!?)

If you still want to try and puzzle out exactly wtf was going on in FFXIII then there's some entertainment to be had in the novellas if you haven't read them already. They and the analects do provide some filler and help fill out the characters some (it should have been in the game in the first place but yeah - well at least the analects are there)

*Vanille/Fang gave themselves up to save the people of Cocoon. It was not the shell or the corrupt society that they wanted to save/that had to be saved but the innocent people. A lot of people were saved and given the chance to start a new life on Pulse (with Vanille/Fang holding up the pillar to prevent Cocoon crushing them and the rest of the team) Though I wasn't entirely sure whether or not Fang actually really cared about any of this or she was just doing it because that's what Vanille really wanted (the novellas shed some insight there at least and another interesting insight is Fang's thoughts/feelings on Dajh/the Euride Gorge scene, she isn't really as heartless as she seemed there, she was just putting her first priority, Vanille first and she couldn't afford to show softer emotion towards others like the former (or at least thought she couldn't)

True Vanille/Fang and the others didn't manage to save every single person. Neither did Cloud/Aerith and the FFVII team at the end of FFVII for example though. Meteo/Meteorfall still killed plenty of people though despite the intervention of Holy/Lifestream eventually managing to control it and heck the Lifestream even compounded the issue of Geostigma spreading in Edge/etc later. FFVII also sort of had the DEM copout too in that Aerith was responsible for guiding/manipulating the lifestream to Holy's aid from the beyond (according to Square Enix/Compilation canon) and saving the entire world (mostly) =P She also pulls all sorts of crazy Cetra powahs in the movie/novellas too even down to down right creepiness/kookiness when she causes phones to ring all around Midgar to summon people to the church for healing) when initially in the game we were led to believe she wasn't all that powerful being only half Cetra (then again it was Hojo who said that) >.>

*Fang!Ragnarok/Vanille soloing the final boss - Ironically enough Vanille is actually probably the best PC for the final boss proper being able to Poison it in addition to applying other debuffs, then either totally cheese it by summoning and drawing out Gestalt + Chain Cannons while Poison does it's job to take off 50%~ HP while Vanille is sitting there in complete safety, quickly use an Elixir when the summon is gone, restick Poison and then do it again to finish off the remaining HP or for those who don't have/don't want to use an Elixir just using Poison and heals to outstall the rest off the fight. Alternatively just outstall it with Poison/healing the entire fight or Poison it and finish it off with a good old fashioned beat down as Poison does it's work and adds to the damage/HP depletion in the process. This isn't even touching Mistilteinn abuse. Poison/Gestalt and/or Poison/stall abuse is best for low spec/underpowered parties though. For the second form well ... it can be instant deathed with Vanille's Death when it's staggered. No, I'm serious. This actually is possible. Alternatively wtf hax aside she can beat it down with Death*COM for damage and/or Mistilteinn abuse in general (ok I guess that also falls under hax <.<) Finally I would have also been down with Fang!Ragnarok as the final boss too but yeah it probably would have peeved off people who had been using her as one of their main PCs until then (I'd decided to be a non conformist or something and use Vanille/Sazh/Snow instead of FLH/LFH >.>)


* Bardiche reads comments.

People take their vidya game way too seriously.

Just when it comes to CT baits  ;-)~
« Last Edit: May 15, 2011, 09:19:14 PM by Clear Tranquil »
"A Yeul that loved to sing. A Yeul who wished to travel. A Yeul that collected flowers.... Every one of them was unique"

Dark Holy Elf

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 8161
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history
    • View Profile
Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #1372 on: May 15, 2011, 09:24:53 PM »
I hope I am not the only one amused by what appears to be a GIANT SMILEY in the middle of the spoilertext.


Valkyrie Profile - Beat this again. I had some trouble with Fenrir(!!!) but the other two endgame bosses were chumps. Had much more trouble with Genevieve, but part of that was my fighting her before getting the Dinosaur or Cromrea (incidentally, I've been underrating the Cromrea, great boss-fighting weapon and was a large improvement over the Elven Bow in particular). Of course I refuse to cheap Fenrir out, I had one person with freeze immunity and I don't use any of the game's OHKO-bosses bullshit.

Game's pretty cool, clocked in at a bit over 15 hours this time. Really like how you can do it at your own pace, good stuff. Fun battle system, even if I have to hold at least one hand behind my back now to get any challenge out of it.

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

Bardiche

  • Guest
Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #1373 on: May 15, 2011, 09:42:32 PM »
I mostly mean the part where they're slamming Hope for "being an asshole" for "playing" Vanille or something. If that's CT bait then uhh. UHHHH. These are 14-year-old kids, bro. Sis. Whatever.

Clear Tranquil

  • Garden of Innocence
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2331
  • Your dreams shatter and burn! Punishing! Blossom!
    • View Profile
Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #1374 on: May 15, 2011, 09:55:33 PM »
What the ... I thought you were referring to the comments made by SnowFire/myself both >.>

Quote
I hope I am not the only one amused by what appears to be a GIANT SMILEY in the middle of the spoilertext.

I was amused!

Dhyer - Eh Sazh-Vanille/Vanille - Sazh aren't that bad. You have the best SAB in the game and the best SYN pre Stage 9 Crystarium (which is when Hope finally picks up Haste) though I suppose that does depend on whether one prefers having an offensive based SYN early on or a defensive based one (I prefer Sazh's early Faith/Brave/Haste/En element spells to Hope's early Protect/Shell myself) so one can liberally apply debuffs/buffs on the enemies including early Deprotect/Deshell/Imperil/Poison on the bosses they face before going to town with them. Upgrade Vanille's Belladonna Wand for improved debuffing (and use Sazh's Spica Defenders/Buff Maintenance weapon if desired too, one thing Vanille/Sazh do have is interesting weapon selections) and abuse her as a pseudo Commando with Undermine (SAB/RAV) to both debuff enemies and solidify/hold the stagger/chain bar (sooo much better than the Slash and Burn set the game gives you with Sazh's COM >.>) before switching to RAV/RAV to stagger and finish enemies off re elemental abuse vs elemental weaknesses (especially niice once she gets Imperil for Deshell/Imperil double pain doses!) The Belladonna Wand is also part of the Buff Duration synthesis group with accessories too which is nice. Alternatively as a healer she picks up stuff like Cura/Esuna/Raise/Curaja earlier than Hope does and gets the Healer's Staff (with HP bangles for High HP:Power Surge) early on. Granted I didn't know/understand/figure out the half of this the first time I ran the game though! So yeah those sections were a bit challenging compared to others at first (they were a complete and utter breeze on my replay though especially having realised Vanille/Sazh aren't meant to be played the same way as other duos >.>) Perhaps the Vice President just figured it all out earlier than others but!~
« Last Edit: May 16, 2011, 12:36:15 AM by Clear Tranquil »
"A Yeul that loved to sing. A Yeul who wished to travel. A Yeul that collected flowers.... Every one of them was unique"