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Author Topic: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)  (Read 271211 times)

Cmdr_King

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #450 on: February 13, 2011, 04:52:50 PM »
Djinn- basically, at the stage of the game you're at, enemy levels stop going up until Victory Road.  So yeah, if you've been rotating the party they will have a bit of an advantage, soon they will bore you with their underlevelledness.
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Meeplelard

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #451 on: February 13, 2011, 06:05:50 PM »
Note that at one point, you're likely to think you are massively OVERLEVELED cause of how enemies at one point just stop leveling for a stretch of the game.  From what I recall, the reason behind this was mostly cause there's a path split in terms of order of events, in that you can go east or west, and there's no indication which way to go first, so they wanted to make things "fair" regardless which path you choose first, so whatever you do second is going to seem really pathetic in comparison.
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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #452 on: February 13, 2011, 07:46:23 PM »
And we finish out chapter two.

Barius Valley - 1 reset. First try, the knights go around breaking everyone's weapons. Starting with Agrias. This puts me in a spot I can't quite get out of, especially as one knight is throwing around Death Sentance whenever he isn't breaking things. Second try is cake, although the knights now break both Super and Gref's helmets. And Agrias's just for good measure.

Execution Site - No resets! Gaffy throws out a Night Sword, then Andy walks up and drops him into critical before anyone else gets to go. Sets the tone for the fight there, I keep things in control with Hatbot's Talk Skill and White Magic, while Super has his best map yet thanks to the Oracle crystal he picked up last map. Yin Yang does it's job, keeping threats locked down long enough for Gref and Andy to kill them.

Gate of Lionel Castle - 1 reset. Secret Fist rapes my people. ;_; Second try, I take Rubber Shoes off the Knights, giving them Defence Rings to stop the Death Sentance instead. It works, the archers focus fire on Super(who has Dragon Spirit), while Andy and Gref slowly kill people and Super swaps back to Basic Skill to Heal anyone statused. Hatbot heals through Gaffy's damage, and gets off a Mimic Daravon which gives me the breathing room I need to control the fight.

Inside Lionel Castle - 1 reset. First go, Quek uses Chicken Race to take Andy out of the action, while the knights gang up on Hatbot and kill him round one. I kinda can't recover from that, he's STILL my only reviver. Take two, I take the Defence Ring off Andy so Quek will throw Nightmare at him and Hatbot instead of Chicken Race. Sleep and/or Death Sentance is much more managable. I get lucky and Hatbot gets DS'd round one so the Knights ignore him. One MA twinked Cure 3 later, the Knights are both dead and we begin the long process of killing Quek(long because Gref seems to have bad or worst compat here). The knights both get back up, but both go right back down from another Cure 3, and Gref eventually chips Quek to death since he is insistant on keeping Andy locked down.

And chapter two is done. Looks like Hal is the next recruit, which means I'll finally get to field a full team of 5~
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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #453 on: February 13, 2011, 09:33:15 PM »
Notioriously incompetent, you mean?

I think you are massively overestimating how well your average player handles things like Rollout Miltank, Shadowballing Gengarm a Steelix with a 5 level advantage over the previous 2 pokemon in the fight before you have decent Fire coverage and a fucking entire Dragon Gym that they haven't necessarilly prepared for (some might even go level up a Delibird to teach it Blizzard).  The first couple of gyms may be complete jokes, but I can get behind that, it is a better introduction to the game than Charmander vs Onix was back in the day.  There is more than a few non-negligible fights there that can throw newer/unexperienced players for a bit.  We are talking the kinds of players that don't use TMs and are largely relying on self caught Pokemans here.  You are looking at a level of play that is way below what you are used to dealing with Hinode.
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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #454 on: February 13, 2011, 10:04:49 PM »
(some might even go level up a Delibird to teach it Blizzard). 

 ;D

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #455 on: February 13, 2011, 10:13:33 PM »
In a lot of ways it's fair to call Whitney a puzzle boss, so it does depend a lot on what pokemon you pick up and how willing you are to play around.  Morty's pretty solid overall, definitely a challenge if you're not hardcore into pokemon.  Clair... has a legit argument for best gym leader in the series, but part of that is because of GSC's overall design, being low level and many of the other gym leaders being scrubby.  HGSS does balance that out a bit though, Bugsy's Scyther is pretty scary now and Jasmine is much less "did you overlevel your fire starter y/n".  Still kinda hard to level though.
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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #456 on: February 13, 2011, 10:35:27 PM »
Notioriously incompetent, you mean?

I think you are massively overestimating how well your average player handles things like Rollout Miltank, Shadowballing Gengarm a Steelix with a 5 level advantage over the previous 2 pokemon in the fight before you have decent Fire coverage and a fucking entire Dragon Gym that they haven't necessarilly prepared for (some might even go level up a Delibird to teach it Blizzard).  The first couple of gyms may be complete jokes, but I can get behind that, it is a better introduction to the game than Charmander vs Onix was back in the day.  There is more than a few non-negligible fights there that can throw newer/unexperienced players for a bit.  We are talking the kinds of players that don't use TMs and are largely relying on self caught Pokemans here.  You are looking at a level of play that is way below what you are used to dealing with Hinode.

Shadow Ball was physical back in gen 2, so it was nowhere near as damaging as the one that Djinn just faced (although it admittedly lacks the embarassing achille's heel as well). The Steelix was dangerous by Steelix standards due to being overlevelled, but it's still a Pokemon with 30 base speed, subpar special durability, and glaring weaknesses to Water and Fire.

Whitney and Clair were genuinely competent, but they're still only 2 out of 8 gyms, while Falkner/Bugsy/Pryce dragged the average down a ton. At best you could argue that GSC is on par with RB for gym leader difficulty despite the latter's embarassingly primitive AI and moveset design, which is to say it's still the dregs of the series.

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #457 on: February 13, 2011, 10:40:02 PM »
SS- So further adventures today. Randomly decided to make runs on the postgame dungeons. Mewtwo first! Somehow I ended up catching it within 9 Great Balls, while Paralyzed even instead of slept! There's the ol' luck. Next I meant to hit Moltres in Silver Cave, but got turned around and ended up facing Red instead, which... I wasn't prepared for honestly. Barely 60'sish party and all. Just barely got past it by the skin of my teeth though.

Picked up Bulbasaur and Torchic afterwards, preparing for another Mt. Silver run again, then probably grabbing Grouden.

Cmdr_King

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #458 on: February 13, 2011, 10:59:27 PM »
Ghost Trick-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tstZfrt_NN4

Pretty much all you really need to know.  7/10 I think.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2011, 11:01:09 PM by Cmdr_King »
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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #459 on: February 13, 2011, 11:59:50 PM »
Notioriously incompetent, you mean?

I think you are massively overestimating how well your average player handles things like Rollout Miltank, Shadowballing Gengarm a Steelix with a 5 level advantage over the previous 2 pokemon in the fight before you have decent Fire coverage and a fucking entire Dragon Gym that they haven't necessarilly prepared for (some might even go level up a Delibird to teach it Blizzard).  The first couple of gyms may be complete jokes, but I can get behind that, it is a better introduction to the game than Charmander vs Onix was back in the day.  There is more than a few non-negligible fights there that can throw newer/unexperienced players for a bit.  We are talking the kinds of players that don't use TMs and are largely relying on self caught Pokemans here.  You are looking at a level of play that is way below what you are used to dealing with Hinode.

Shadow Ball was physical back in gen 2, so it was nowhere near as damaging as the one that Djinn just faced (although it admittedly lacks the embarassing achille's heel as well). The Steelix was dangerous by Steelix standards due to being overlevelled, but it's still a Pokemon with 30 base speed, subpar special durability, and glaring weaknesses to Water and Fire.

Whitney and Clair were genuinely competent, but they're still only 2 out of 8 gyms, while Falkner/Bugsy/Pryce dragged the average down a ton. At best you could argue that GSC is on par with RB for gym leader difficulty despite the latter's embarassingly primitive AI and moveset design, which is to say it's still the dregs of the series.

What was Morty's Achilles' heel?

Also, Whitney did KO me once with the Milktank out of nowhere~

I'm playing without any guides at all. I don't even have a type advantage list, and I'm going basically off of memory from RBY from about a decade ago. I figure this is an appropriate challenge to offset the fact that I traded in all three starters from the beginning. I didn't even know there was a Ghost-type gym until I got there, so I didn't exactly have the appropriate pokemon levelled up. It just kind of surprised me how competent Morty was, considering all I had heard about GSC balance.

Current team:

Golbat (Lv29, was lvl24 when I fought Morty, subsequently became my MVP despite being crap until evolution)
Quilava (Lv26, was 23 vs Morty)
Croconaw (Lv28, was 27 vs Morty)
Bayleef (Lv25, was 20 vs Morty)
Dratini (Lv24, was 21 vs Morty, was my MVP before Morty)
ShinyRedGyarados (Lv30, replaced Slowbro, sits in the back of my team as my trump card)

Slowbro (Lv20 vs Morty, pretty much useless, but his Disable saved my ass against Gyarados' DragonRage)
Geodude (Lv18, was using him as a tank until Morty)
Furret (Lv18?, HM Slave~)
Machop (Destroyed Whitney with him and Dratini~)
ElectricSheep (Forgot its actual name, was using it as a warm body before better things came around)

Pokemon I've seen, but haven't bothered to catch, but look relatively interesting to use: Giraffe-thing (I don't even know what typing it has)
Abra (because I got one in RBY, but it took forever to catch and then forever to evolve and I just don't have that kind of patience as an adult~)

Meeplelard

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #460 on: February 14, 2011, 12:04:42 AM »
I wanna say Morty could flat out not hurt a Hoothoot/Noctowl with Insomnia outside of Confuse Ray?  Something like that.  It relies on doing damage to Normal types through Hypnosis + Dream Eater combo, I seem to recall.

It was something like that.  Basically, there was a few Pokemon who Morty could not hurt.  It wasn't a case of "they wall him really well!" like most type advantages, such as Aron vs. Ruby/Sapphire Norman, he flat out had nothing offensively.  Hoothoot/Noctowl, meanwhile, has Peck, which while not GOOD, is enough to beat the Ghost types he has.
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DjinnAndTonic

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #461 on: February 14, 2011, 12:19:30 AM »
Heh. Normal immunes Ghost? Completely forgot that. I haven't actually used a Normal-type pokemon this entire game... >.>;;

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #462 on: February 14, 2011, 12:23:55 AM »
I think a bunch of Morty's pokemon have sucker punch but it has terrible PP and is easy to avoid due to it not working if the opponent doesn't attack. Bugsy is pretty nasty in HG and SS U-Turn and Quick attack are nasty when boosted off Technician and coming off of Scyther's attack that early in the game.

Meeplelard

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #463 on: February 14, 2011, 12:28:47 AM »
Oh, right, Sucker Punch, THAT was his 4th move.  Yeah, if you have Hoothoot/Noctowl with an adequate level and Insomnia (enough that he won't run out of PP using Peck, or whatever offense he has at that moment), open by spamming Growl or something until he runs out of Sucker Punches (only does damage if you use an attack on that turn), and then you basically can't lose against the Gengar.

Generally speaking, HGSS improved almost all the Gym Leaders across the board, though I remember Falkner being pretty bad still.  Pryce gained a bunch of levels, Morty's "Achilles' Heel" aside, Shadow Ball is now really damned painful cause its special, Bugsy' Scyther has an actual attack now, etc.  I don't remember what Claire got, but...I question if she really NEEDED anything beyond typical adjustments to the more modern system.
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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #464 on: February 14, 2011, 01:12:00 AM »
Falkner and Bugsy were pretty easy, no resets there. Whitney was one reset mostly because Milktank surprised me and her Clefable got an awesomely lucky Metronome off on me, KOing my best special-attacker before I saw the Milktank.

I guess it would be easier if I actually looked up some game mechanics or knew what my opponent could do beforehand, but that's less challenging... and also defeats the purpose of having a handheld system.

I'm kinda shocked that the game didn't beat the player over the head that Normal-type pokemon resisted Ghost-type attacks... >.>;;
I'm not sure it's even been mentioned so far?

Meeplelard

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #465 on: February 14, 2011, 01:17:40 AM »
well, Djinn, regarding Bugsy...

Scyther now has a 70 Power Bug Move at his disposal.  He may not have been hard, but compare that to his GSC form where his big speceial move was FURY CUTTER, aka 10 power bug move that doubles damage each hit. 

You can see why people now respect him relative to his Gen 2 form.  Don't forget that his other two were still Kakuna and Metapod, so nothing stopped you from opening with, say, Geodude, spam Defense Curl, and then mock from there (I would ay use Rock Throw but think that might be a tad too high a level for Bugsy.)
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[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #466 on: February 14, 2011, 01:20:12 AM »
Quote
Don't forget that his other two were still Kakuna and Metapod, so nothing stopped you from opening with, say, Geodude, spam Defense Curl, and then mock from there

This still works in HGSS. (And I'd say Rock Throw is quite reasonable in both games, it's Level 11.) Even better, you can have overlevelled Onix from the earlygame trade do the same thing with much beefier stats.

Bugsy is far better, but he's still nothing amazing; as Djinn notes, he's still worse than Whitney or Morty despite his improvements.

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Maybe.

hinode

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #467 on: February 14, 2011, 02:26:17 AM »
You don't even need Insomnia on your normal type vs Morty technically, it just makes things go faster, as the Gengar doesn't have Dream Eater even; its moveset is Shadow Ball/Sucker Punch/Hypnosis/Mean Look. A L1 Togepi with Extrasensory and Growl can wait out all the PP for Sucker Punchs and (eventually) Hypnosis and slowly chip away at his Gengar's HP. Any semi-competent Normal type who can damage his Gengar can easily beat him with a few Awakenings or some patience, I've 2HKO'd it with the L20 Spearow from the in-game trade for instance.

Falkner and Bugsy still aren't all that good objectively in HGSS, but the GSC versions were by far the worst gym leaders in series history, I completely stomped them both with my Hoothoot/Spinarak[/Togepi for Bugsy] team, all of whom are abjectly awful by any standards back in GSC. Pryce was pretty bad as well (easily swept by the worst Grass type in the game), but I'd at least have to think about him vs RBY Brock and a few others.

Also, Bugsy opens with Scyther in HGSS (for U-turn spamming), so you can't quite Defense Curl up against Metapod/Kakuna. Although really if you have either Geodude or Onix at a semi-competent level you don't need Defense Curl at all for that fight.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2011, 02:33:51 AM by hinode »

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #468 on: February 14, 2011, 02:54:05 AM »
Yeah, he opens with Scyther, which would make him quite dangerous if he had X-Scissor or something and not U-Turn. As is, the first thing he kills switches him out to Metapod or Kakuna so you can go as buff-happy as you want from there.

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

Meeplelard

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #469 on: February 14, 2011, 03:15:21 AM »
Well, mostly just saying Bugsy compared to his original self is infinitely better.  The fact that he's still not very good speaks highly of his self.

Soul Nomad: Map 39!  Was gonna play til map 40 today, actually, but considering what the last map was, I figured it was just sensible to end one map earlier.
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #470 on: February 14, 2011, 03:25:00 AM »
Oh yeah, games.

FE8 - Only four maps from the end. Not much to say about this playthrough; it features MAINGAME AMELIA wooo yeah she's usable but not really worth it. Most of the rest of the PCs are pretty usual suspects: twins, Seth, Natasha, Saleh (definitely falling off now, was good for a while though), Colm, Neimi, Gerik, Cormag, Tana (stupid good as always), Tethys.

DMC Hard Mode - Mundus is a jerk. Coming pretty close now. I've made it through the whole game without using items (besides yellow orbs) and I'm certainly not giving up now.

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

superaielman

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #471 on: February 14, 2011, 03:59:47 AM »
VC1- On mission 16. Skipping all the story bits, going to watch it all in one sitting once I'm done with the battles.
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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #472 on: February 14, 2011, 04:01:27 AM »
Quote
Yeah, he opens with Scyther, which would make him quite dangerous if he had X-Scissor or something and not U-Turn. As is, the first thing he kills switches him out to Metapod or Kakuna so you can go as buff-happy as you want from there.

When I saw how much damage U-Turn did to my Geodude (or failed to do, rather) I didn't even bother with Defense Curl. He actually ended up doing more damage to me this way than he would've with X-Scissor, although that's just arguing two different shades of futile. Rock types simply wall the Scyther too badly for it to be good.

As for actual games, I haven't really played much for about a month now, guess that SRWJ stat topic kinda burned me out. Mainly been fiddling with assorted minigames and the weekly Layton wifi puzzles. I did catch a shiny Tangela in Soul Silver though.

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #473 on: February 14, 2011, 04:15:24 AM »
I ended up soloing the Gengar with Furrett because he couldn't kill the thing from full HP with his entire reserve of Sucker Punches, so basically anything Normal typed will outlast it eventually.
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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #474 on: February 14, 2011, 05:47:18 AM »
Red Dead Redemption: Been playing a bunch of multiplayer (which is still irritating to me excluding the co-op) and started Undead Nightmare.