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Author Topic: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)  (Read 270335 times)

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #2075 on: August 21, 2011, 10:14:19 PM »
I refuse to give the game designers any credit for that when instead they put in stat-boosting/usable item tarot cards to manually collect and slooooooooow levelling skills. :/ I've certainly dragged out battles for a few extra turns to finish collecting tarots and find myself spamming unnecessary healing spells for that slight boost to Augment Light in the meantime.

I also think you do get extra exp for hitting stuff and the likes, it's just a really small amount and spread out amongst all classes.

Huh, funny, I thought tarot boosts were pretty trashy and was always disappointed when an enemy dropped one instead of treasure since I always wanted more money.

Dragging battles out for skills/exp is just lame, I feel (not a judgement on anyone who does this, I just personally find it unappealing). I suppose you have a point that the game still allows you to do it but overall the effect is, at least, extremely minor (except getting L2 in weapon skills a bit faster perhaps?). Of course I'm all about efficient play in general so such avenues just aren't going to appeal to me, but I did appreciate that TO gave you full experience (which is far more important than anything else earned from battle) regardless of the speed you win, and I do think it's a legitimate advantage the game has over, say, FFT.

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superaielman

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #2076 on: August 21, 2011, 10:33:21 PM »
LFT challenge run: Finished.  C4 was the hardest chapter in the game. It pushed me without being 'slam head into wall' hard. Hardest fight was Balk II, as I didn't have any way to blitz him. I won that fight by DSing my entire team, breaking Balk's weapon (100% due to a vanish mantle), and killing the chemist. At that point, it was my status outracing DS, since I got maimed in a hurry when it wore off.  Altima and another dozen fights in the chapter gave me trouble, but Balk's the only one I had more than one or two resets on.

Ramza (Thief/Monk). I kept him in thief the entire game. He was an earlygame damage god, and kept that edge until mid C3. Thief's got shit PA, so I stuck him with daggers. He really trailed off hard in the end due to knifes not really competing in damage, but he was good enough early on. Also! Secret Fist is hilariously useful even late- ITE is fucking awesome against tank units in C4, and it shuts down monsters hard. I used steal a couple of times late for snazzy shields, and that's mostly it. He was a monk in C1, and switched to thief as soon as I mastered everything.

In FFT: Oof. This would be a SCC Monk with +2 move and secret hunt. God did thieves blow in vanilla.  Much worse off.

Female Knight/Chemist- As awesome as you'd expect. Knights dominate early on, chemists are always good. Probably my MVP, as both are very good skillsets and the two classes have excellent synergy. I ran her as a chemist as soon as guns appeared- the range on guns is too awesome to ignore, plus breaks and guns mix well. I used Knight a few times for the tanking, but that's it.

In FFT: Maybe not MVP.  Battle skill would have weaker, but it's still an FFT Chemist with a backup skillset and shields available.


Male Squire/Summoner- Yuck. Having this character be male left me mostly using him in squire, as the MA just wasn't good enough to justify Summoner. Moogle was useful early, and Golem was awesome. It's my first time using it in LFT or FFT, and man. The  physical immunity was a godsend, as was it baiting the AI effectively. Most of the time, my Squire just yelled/reraised the team as needed. Excalibur gave him a nice speed boost too. Probably the LVP though.

In FFT: Would have kept him in summoner. Lich is useful against bosses there and FFT Squires suck. I think he would have been better in that version.

Male Ninja/Oracle: FLAILS. Flails are the story of the day here. Early on, he hung out in Oracle and grabbed skills. Silence song was good early on, and I used blind a few times as well. Never did get much use out of his FFT money skills like paraylze, but oh well. Life drain was useful at points as well, but even on Zodiacs it never really outdamaged flails. My god, those things. He picked up when flails got available. Even with Ninja taking a very notable nerf to PA, Flails are crazy enough to make up some of that gap. I would've killed for equip armor or concenrate on this setup, but oh well. He was my best boss fighter due to the offense.

In FFT: Better. Ninjas were nuts in that version, and Yin-yang is useful in both.

Female Geomancer/mediator: Talk skill was useful straight through. She had quite solid physical offense due to a Knight of Ice setup. When that trailed off in early C4, I turned her into a Geomancer with equip gun, which worked just fine.

In FFT: Probably worse, Laggy did improve talk skill.


Man, did I miss Holy sword in this playthrough.  Early C4 was a slog just due to everything having mantles and a lot of shields floating around. Also! Man, math skill would have helped tremendously too. Being able to open a fight with slow or don't move really does help control the flow of a fight- my hardest fights in C4 are where enemies start in your face and rush you. Meliadoul, Elmdor (no resets but I got lucky), Balk 2, etc.
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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #2077 on: August 22, 2011, 04:25:26 AM »
FF5 FJF mark 2 complete. Knight/RM/Geo/Chemist is a boring team, so took me awhile to dredge up the interest to finish. Final was...basically "buff to high heaven against Exdeath, laugh as Neo Exdeath fails to do anything remotely threatening." Grand Cross hit DOOM against my RM and Geo at the same time, which were the only deaths. Final levels were...42 for Krille, 41 for Bartz/Ferris and 40 for Lenna, I believe. Hope I get some more fun classes next year.
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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #2078 on: August 22, 2011, 12:25:30 PM »
Etrian Odyssey 2 - This game is pretty frustrating after the first one.  I mean the first one seriously lacked some quality of life things in it, but it gave you pretty broken tools to work with.  This one they have given you a ton, but it is like they have taken it as an excuse to take away a whole ton of shit that lets you get up and running.

I literally run on zero sum cash flow.  I have new gear that I don't realistically have any way of affording without grinding like fuck (on Floor 5).  Treks into the forest barely pay for themselves between revival, healing and paying for teleporting.  Revival is kind of expensive, but it is going to fucking happen in a game where enemies can realistically 3 or 4HKO you and come in packs of five.  I can deal with that if I just have some kind of income.  It is like the killed your main methods of profit because Geopoints exist, you could completely and totally abuse them if you could actually do any goddamned gathering.  At the cost of gathering skills with their absolutely dirt cheap return on investment?  Yeah that isn't happening.   Also because they exist the randoms in the early game are much more brutal than they were in the first game.  I know the first game is rough.  The randoms from floor 1 weren't still taking off a fifth of my health when I was on the fifth in that though.  Mostly because you still had to trek through the whole dungeon to get back to fifth.  This time because of that it is like they justify enemies being completely unforgiving and FOEs while being killable make for a nearly unsalvagable dive down (lol or you could piss away 500 bucks which is about as much as I have ever held at one time on Nectar).

So anyway I trek through floor 5.  Figuring I will port out about halfway through, things go swimmingly.  I get the flowers I need for a quest.  There is a shortcut up ahead that will pretty much open up the whole floor from the Geopoint.  I get bum rushed by yet another FOE.  I do kind of like how they are making you dodge patrols and stuff this time more.  It is reminiscent of the first two floors in the original which I was saying that was pretty cool to.  This one loves to put them around blind corners which I am not so cool with.  For example.  FOE from the second floor was just around a corner that I couldn't see yet just after I ran away from a raptor.  lol back is against a wall.  can't escape.  Total party wipe that was entirely unavoidable on a FOE who's entire point is that they are entirely avoidable (walks in set patterns that are easilly predictable... if you can see them which I had absolutely no way of doing in this case).

This is my unimpressed face. 

Also, the strafing?  Adds less to the game than you would think.  It literally can cause you to be backed into unescapable corners that you would be able to get out of if you didn't strafe.  It is straight up a trap that gives no real net gameplay benefit wrapped up as a quality of life bonus.
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Clear Tranquil

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #2079 on: August 22, 2011, 06:35:46 PM »
Imperil doesn't remove chain resistances, but elemental resistances also lower chain gain.  Not sure if that's what you meant, but figured I'd just make it more clear even if it is what you meant.

Yeah thanks Tal :) That's what I meant yes~

Did anyone clue NEB in on Sacrifice/turtle farming/points of no return yet? Elfs should be aware that the final dungeon has points of no return with some unique oppurtunities vs various enemy formations (which change and are lost as the dungeon progresses) to fight/use for stuff to sell for monies/catalysts for upgrading/CP farming. Specifically the  Sacrifices/Sanctum Templars for the formers and enemies on the whole for the latter particularly in the final area before the inner sanctuary/final bosses. One of the best places in the game for mass CP gains there especially with the Growth Egg =-) Some of this is only really relevant if you're going for All Achievements/ the Platinum trophy though. So if you're at all interested/curious there at all might be worth keeping some backup saves around to experiment with. There's also the Immortal a sub/mini boss of the Centaurian type guarding the way to some nifty accessories and a very rare item (the only one of it's kind to be picked up in this way/obtainable as a treasure even and from a very limited stock on the whole~) which people tend to miss out on if they don't know about it/aren't fully exploring the dungeon. Worth being aware of at least :)

(Edit: oh yeah it will also be possible to access portals to return to some previous locations from former chapters (Pulse/Eden) soon after the start of Chapter 13 in case you were interested at all in doing more missions/getting your revenge on stomping turtles/etc too at some stage =-))
« Last Edit: August 23, 2011, 12:11:40 AM by Clear Tranquil »
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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #2080 on: August 22, 2011, 07:04:20 PM »
MvC3 - Just got the plat 8-). I'm now satisfied and can move on to Ultimate.

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #2081 on: August 22, 2011, 07:56:12 PM »
Xenoblade - Dunban get naked and becomes a better aggro tank than the character with 2000 more HP and 300 defense.  Clearly OK had a development hand in this game.

I picked some dumb looking thing named Riki (why do all awful looking characters are named Riki?).  Well, probably can get away from not using him.  It doesn't have a cool british voice like everyone else.

Also ARMOUR GODDAMN IT EUROPE WHY DO YOU SPELL THINGS FUNNY?! ME ONLY UNDERSTAND AMERICAN! (Yes. DQ8 was pretty much the same way but it was used in almost a comical way)

FF5 4JF: I got Knight/Mystic Knight/Dragoon/Ranger. Time for some Rapid Fire Spellblade. Just like in normal FF5, except with one Dragoon doing nothing but spamming !Animals!!!  I started World 2 but slowly the game is boring me.  I'm aiming for the Brave Blade so I can't run from enemies and without rapid fire my only MT is !ANIMALS!!!  Rod breaking is stupid, so I'm just grinding enough levels to auto attack everything.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2011, 08:01:32 PM by Lord Ephraim »

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #2082 on: August 23, 2011, 01:49:14 AM »
Imperil doesn't remove chain resistances, but elemental resistances also lower chain gain.  Not sure if that's what you meant, but figured I'd just make it more clear even if it is what you meant.

Yeah thanks Tal :) That's what I meant yes~

Did anyone clue NEB in on Sacrifice/turtle farming/points of no return yet? Elfs should be aware that the final dungeon has points of no return with some unique oppurtunities vs various enemy formations (which change and are lost as the dungeon progresses) to fight/use for stuff to sell for monies/catalysts for upgrading/CP farming. Specifically the  Sacrifices/Sanctum Templars for the formers and enemies on the whole for the latter particularly in the final area before the inner sanctuary/final bosses. One of the best places in the game for mass CP gains there especially with the Growth Egg =-) Some of this is only really relevant if you're going for All Achievements/ the Platinum trophy though. So if you're at all interested/curious there at all might be worth keeping some backup saves around to experiment with. There's also the Immortal a sub/mini boss of the Centaurian type guarding the way to some nifty accessories and a very rare item (the only one of it's kind to be picked up in this way/obtainable as a treasure even and from a very limited stock on the whole~) which people tend to miss out on if they don't know about it/aren't fully exploring the dungeon. Worth being aware of at least :)

(Edit: oh yeah it will also be possible to access portals to return to some previous locations from former chapters (Pulse/Eden) soon after the start of Chapter 13 in case you were interested at all in doing more missions/getting your revenge on stomping turtles/etc too at some stage =-))

At this point I'm not doing any more optional stuff until after beating the game. Do I need to keep save files somewhere anyway?

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Meeplelard

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #2083 on: August 23, 2011, 02:24:25 AM »
On a Clear Game save, for some reason, you can't access a good deal of the final dungeon (basically, anything outside of the big teleportation pad thingy.)  This means that the overall best spot to farm for cash and CP is gone for good, and yeah, you have to keep a save BEFORE the final boss.

If you go there clear game save, you can still access everything up til Eden (so that Adamantoise will always be there), and there's the one room with the 7~ Sacrifices which is good, but inferior to the other mostly due to the way you respawn them (something like the best spot involves merely walking a bit off screen and coming back.  This requires you to constantly leave and come back.)
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Clear Tranquil

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #2084 on: August 23, 2011, 04:16:32 AM »
Yeah each prior area of the dungeon progressively disappears as you proceed through it defeating the plot bosses, etc (you can't for example return to the area with the Immortal/extra area with the accessories and items in it after beating the section/plot boss there proper) My best advice/recommendation would be to keep a backup save in the very first area of the final dungeon/cradle where there are a couple of packs of Sacrifices roaming. One of those packs (which is as Meeple noted incredibly easy to respawn) is an excellent/prime source for drops for cash (it's practically as good as the turtles - granted turtles are much better for CPs though especially Long Guis ;P) The fight is also much easier to handle/blitz over and over than the turtles to begin with too (well if you're trying to defeat Adamantoises without using instant death that is) The best spot for CP specifically in the final dungeon proper is as noted vs the enemies in the area before the set of final bosses (without spoiling anything in the area before everything goes all white ;p) - something like 60'000 CP a fight with the Growth Egg/Double CP accessory or something? (I will admit I never actually used/needed this spot for CP in particular since I used instant death spam/cheese with Vanille vs the Edentoise for mass net CP gains instead on my first run and had maxxed out on everything via early Long Gui farming on my second >_> <_< >_> - but it is there incase you are running into any problems vs the final bosses and or other fights/need to train more or something but don't feel like going back to Eden) Again best advice is to keep another back up save incase you need/want to bother with that either. So yeah keep a couple of back up saves for different stages floating around if you want =)~

(this isn't really that much of a big deal if you don't care about/don't want to bother with it sorry if I'm making it seem that way - there are always turtles post game, they will always exist in some form as a main source for cash/CP and at least you have your Stage 10 Crystarium to play around with there =) Sacrifices are just a good way of building up a float/stockpiling cash towards Tier 3/ultimate weapons and accessories before hand)
« Last Edit: August 23, 2011, 06:06:54 AM by Clear Tranquil »
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superaielman

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #2085 on: August 23, 2011, 01:52:11 PM »
Madden 12- Played the demo. So...shiny.... must resist buying it...  *Preorders game* Fuck.

LFT- Just playtesting the rare fights now. Hardest so far has been the pig fight in the swamp.
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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #2086 on: August 24, 2011, 04:07:07 AM »
SO4:  Postgame stuffs (Earth difficulty).

I missed the Astral Caves on my first playthrough.  Wow does Meracle's Burning Claws make a massive difference in the difficulty of Seven Star Dungeon.  Beat Gabe, with some difficulty.

Beat Ashlay for the first time, and then enough times to make monster jewels from him.  Made a super-dee-duper Laser Suit.

Went through half of the Wandering Dungeon.  Haven't farmed Fol yet, so I only had enough to buy one tri-Emblem from Santa.  Also found Meracle's rare claws.  So guess what?  IT'S RAPING TIME

Went back and fought Gabe's second form, and totally wrecked him.  Got Meracle's beat Gabriel in 10-minutes battle trophy, but it was more like 5 minutes.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #2087 on: August 24, 2011, 05:25:39 PM »
FF13 - Finished! Final time around 50 hours, final levels around... everyone very close to finishing their primary grids, just a bit short. My main attacker (Fang) had a high-level tier 2 weapon, everyone else had maxed L1s, and I had accessories generally between Level 6 and 11 on the first tier I had them available in. Final team was Fang (leader), Lightning, and Hope.

Already had a big part of the rant so far, so let's wrap things up, shall we? FF13 is certainly an excellent overall game, and slides quite nicely as my new third-favourite game in the series (after I so briefly promoted FF5 to this honour!).

Story-wise... unquestionably, the game comes off the rails a bit towards the end. This is a shame, because I think if the game had been able to keep up the really good stuff it did in Chapter 1-9 it would have been an easy 10/10. The first half of the game has, as I've mentioned, some top-notch character work, and a slew of really good scenes as they deal with stress and come to realisations. Plotwise I think this part of the game is excellently paced and generally have no major beefs with it. Highlights, though...

-I do really like the cocoon four, as I have mentioned before. Snow is a great parody but also at times a genuinely interesting character. Hope is a great portrayal of a confused and angry teenager. Lightning and Sazh both have stories that clicked for me, and are fun personalities.
-The scene where Snow's facade cracks he breaks down about the deaths his actions have caused is great.
-I also liked most of the Hope/Snow stuff surrounding this. Loved how Snow kept setting Hope off until the kid snapped. Loved that Hope then used his ravager powers in plot, loved the -emotion- of the scene in general. Actually in general, I think chapter 7 was my favourite part of the game plotwise.
-I enjoyed how Sazh wrestled with the idea of turning himself in for Dajh. Leading up to that, I liked how Sazh's plot connected with the rest, and how his motivation explained his until-then cryptic remarks about how he hated being an enemy of Cocoon (and hence Dajh) so very much.
-Lightning's development was very solid. Sure, she's fun opposite Sazh at the start, but there was some excellent stuff with Hope: how her need to use anger to fuel her survival contrasts with his; how by setting the kid on an unsympathetic, violent path she realises her own flaws and then tries to save the boy.


You'll notice I say less good things about Vanille and Fang relatively; I do regard them as the weaker members of the cast but I don't dislike them; Vanille in particular by far my favourite of the "energetic, happy young woman" trope Final Fantasy so loves (though at 19, may be too old for the trope anyway?) because of the delicious darkness that lurks behind that happiness. Fang is more just generically likable though certainly in no danger of being a Mary Sue. Hard to say much more definite there though, there isn't enough really good solid character scenes for her.

Once you hit chapter 10 and especially 11, though, it feels like they just ran out of budget for scenes, since there are far fewer of them, and many feel somewhat poorly explained in terms of what is going on. There's still some good plot stuff there but the narrative doesn't always do a good job of letting it unfold. I don't mind having to think a story through and talk it over with people (something I've already done a fair bit of) but FF13 obviously goes a bit far here and could certainly have stood to clarify things. It reminds me of Xenogears a fair bit in its latter stages, which means some of it is unsatisfying and there are plenty of gaps and plot holes, even if the overarching plot is generally a satisfying one. FF13 is probably a bit more frustrating due to the loss of character work though, which was overall better than Xenogears' in their respective first halves.

Specific complaints... I definitely felt that the Pulse setting was underused, especially for Vanille and Fang's development. Both of them feel like they were supposed to get more scenes than they did. One moment, Vanille reveals she became Ragnarok! Okay, this is kind of a big deal! Pretty shortly thereafter, this turns around and is a lie. This could have been awesome with more buildup (like Vanille's previous lie about becoming a l'Cie along with the rest), but as is, it just doesn't work as well as it should. Instead chapter 11 feels very empty with Taejin's Tower in particular being a plotless hard-to-swallow mess of a roadblock.

Chapter 12 in general is probably my least favourite. The PCs no longer really debate their course of action at this point, which is a real shame since there are several, very different avenues open to them, and the conflict with Rosch (dude you were dead) definitely fell flat. In general, this part of the game continued my simply wanting more out of the game's plot and its previously fun character interactions. There's just so little beyond what is minimally necessary.

On the other hand, there's still certainly some good stuff lategame. Perhaps my favourite part is Dysley's transformation into a magnificent troll. I didn't care for him initially, but ultimately he ended up as a very solid villain. Has several great "just as planned" moments towards the end. "You guys go to Orphan's Cradle to stop the cavalry... ahaha just kidding, now you're trapped here! Also I made them all zombies because I'm a jerk." "Okay guys now I'll kill you since you obviously won't complete your focus... ahaha just kidding I was Orphan all along you fools have triggered DESTRUCTION". In general he did a good job of showing up and taunting the hell out of the PCs, and unlike most villains who do that it actually MADE SENSE for his plans.

I also liked the disconnect between his motives actually being quite noble (if, uh, involving a lot of death, but they're still pretty noble the way Luc's or Kato's are) and him being a complete pile of shit on a personal level, treating individual human life as refuse and making the PCs' lives a complete misery. That feels like a disconnect you usually don't see to often?

It's a shame the rest of the villain cast is basically worthless. I liked both PSICOM colonels initially, funnily enough, but Rosch is worthless after he randomly comes back from the dead, and Jihl gets an unceremonious exit before she can really make good on some of her fun potential. Oh, there's Cid I guess, if you can even consider him a villain. He's fine in his minor role, although his C12 resurrection-then-death is... bizarre. If another respectable trolling moment for Dysley.

I quite liked the ENDING stylistically (using Ragnarok's powers to save lives instead of destroy them is very fitting with the game's theme) although it's a bit unclear as to when the PCs came up with this plan so it could have been a better execution, to say the least. PCs just needed to talk so much more endgame! It is frustrating! However, I thought some of the scenes in the middle of the final battle were a bit of a mess; I'm still not quite certain what they were shooting for between the two Orphan fights. I like to think I'm pretty open-minded for plot interpretations but it's really hard to explain what happens there in the context of the characters and surounding events. It's either an extremely weird mindfuck (which... I wouldn't put past the game, but I'm not especially sold on it) or seems irreconcilable with the scenes both before and after. Oh well. If anyone has an explanation for it I may have missed I would like to hear it, but I'd be surprised if there's one that isn't some level of writing fail.



Gameplaywise, on the other hand, it really only gets better as it goes along. This game's randoms are just so much fun, they keep you on your toes throughout and going for those 5-stars are just so much fun. I actually had much more trouble with the better randoms (Humbaba, Adamanchelid, Dagonite packs, Wladislaus, never mind the stuff you're obviously not meant to fight in chapter 11) than any bosses who I generally felt were not too bad - in particular, no form of the main villain and/or final boss gave me much trouble. I never had multiple resets on any boss fight besides some of the eidolons (which always felt like walking a tightrope to beat, good balance there) but had several multi-reset fights with (individual) better randoms! I could probably have avoided most of this with a more defensive approach but fuck that, that's no fun and the game even rewards my efficiency so yeah.

I may have lied earlier; the way FF13 rewards good play may mean it does play to all my biases after all. Sure, CTB will always be my one true love as far as traditional RPGs go... but damned if FF13 doesn't craft easily the best realtime RPG battle system ever. This is like what every ARPG and ATB game wanted to be. It requires (at least on the default battle speed) a furious pace of thinking out your actions and strategies and the main reason you can't control anyone is you don't have TIME, but you do a great job of controlling them indirectly. I still enjoyed having control of my Saboteur because I felt that afforded me the greatest number of tactical options ("e.g. fuck you guys, YOU are getting Fogged). Synergist controlling would be my next pick (and I did switch to Sazh leader for a few fights) but Hope's role as most fragile PC made this a little less appealing.

The crystarium offers more choice than the sphere grid due to multiple role trees (which is good), and has a cap on grinding (which... appeals to me, but I'm not sure it's objectively good design for those who like grinding). On the other hand I dislike how you can't choose which nodes to get along a certain path. Probably not a big deal, just ruins some potentially fun builds on replays/challenge playthroughs. Also advancing it is definitely slower than it had to be.

The game had several gameplay mechanics which I didn't really care for (eidolons felt like a bit of a mess since I never bothered to grasp what all their different attacks did; -sols I feel are kinda degenerate pseudo-gameplay skip options though at least you can only pull them out rarely due to availability. Hilariously the game apparently gives you more if you suck at it! Which... makes a lot of sense). Fortunately these are both pretty easy to ignore. The game has a crafting system which seemed a little obtuse at points but overall proved an okay diversion I guess. Not really a fan of these but at least I was able to get a handle on this one eventually. It felt very cluttered though I understand the reason for doing this (the beasties you fight drop lots of different parts).


Might as well talk about the PCs in-game!


Lightning - She's pretty solid. Definitely goes downhill a bit towards the end as her Medic becomes much more of a "well it can kinda help sometimes" instead of being a bona fide healer; there's little doubt to me that you want one of Hope or Vanille as such. She always plays her niche of doing any type of offence well. Early on this is just amazing as she actually has comparable attack in both to the specialists, but later on she's clearly beaten. I did end up using her as my third most important PC just to play a bit of a backup role once Sazh dropped out of the party, though on reflection Snow may have worked just as well. Probably has a case for overall-game MVP as I think some consider her (though she wouldn't be my pick offhand), for all that she's only an average choice later. She's the second best Commando at least because the dudes don't bother to pick up Faultsiphon.

Fang - Because Fang feels like that MVP. Sorta the opposite, at first she's only average: a respectable Commando, but kinda subpar at her other two roles... except slow is genuinely very cool so maybe not that much. But then as time goes on, she just gets really freaking good. Her strength soars way higher than anyone else's AND she gets the important commando skills, so she's by far the best at that role and you want one. Her saboteur skillset blossoms, eventually even getting Deprotect/Deshell, so she's at worst tied for best at that, and you want a Saboteur so badly since like everything save two bosses can be stat-downed and stat-downs are AWESOME. Oh yeah and she can do a decent turn as a sentinel; not as good as Snow due to HP but more than good enough. Past a certain point she was the only PC I felt I couldn't consider removing without making my party clearly worse. But at least she dislikes physical-immunes!

Sazh - Sazh is a pretty interesting case. I possibly overrate Haste a bit but I do like it a lot, and also think the offensive buffs are very potent (mostly the En- spells, Brave/Faith are a more modest boost). Sazh provides these. I generally found his indirect increases to party offence more than made up for his other roles which are... bad. COM/RAV off party-worst overall offensive stats. He's not too far behind at first, but it definitely gets worse as the game goes on. Then in C12 Hope gets his unique buffs (save Vigilance which is kinda cool but not enough) and he gets shown the door. I did find him one of the best PCs until then, though; favourite parties at various points until C12 were Lightning/Sazh/Vanille, Lightning/Sazh/Fang, Sazh/Fang/Vanille, and Sazh/Fang/Hope (order irrelevant within each party). Note how he's always there? Yeah. Just made 5-starring battles and chewing through bosses before they could get scary much easier.

Hope - Bad HP, but pretty great otherwise. Might be the best Ravager due to his super-high magic. Likely the best medic. Vanille's not too different here, so the real reason Hope draws in to the party is of course that he also gets the Synergist role. I just praised offensive buffs, but the defensive are great too. For a while, once I felt I could safely drop Vanille due to Fang picking up Deprotect/Deshell, I was quite happy to use both synergists, but once their skillsets overlap more Hope is the clear winner because great RAV/great MED is a lot better than mediocre RAV/mediocre COM. Low HP at least makes the decision worth thinking about, though... and until he gets the offensive buffs his contribution to party offence (and hence 5-starring) is a little shaky, for all that I certainly pulled him out in fights where I badly wanted Protect/Shell then.

Vanille - Deprotect and Deshell and Imperil are so awesome. Stack them with En-spells, quadruple your damage. Great medic too. See above, I think she is quite comparable to Hope, and the only reason I used Hope instead of her late is because her main role competition (lategame Fang) is much better than Hope's (lategame Sazh). Might well be the most important PC until Fang gets Deprotect/Deshell(/Imperil) though it's hard to say for sure. Always maintains a unique niche in statuswhoring at least thanks to Poison and Death, for all that I haven't fought the enemies which make these really useful. Deprotega and Deshellga I also did miss sometimes.

Snow - Snow's main niche is HP (and Ravager casting speed apparently, for all that his magic is too low for this to feel abusive, though he IS a great choice for quickly staggering things probably). This isn't too bad a niche especially if he wants to taunt everyone and play sentinel. Naturally, my playstyle emphasises offence over defence, though, which largely left Snow by the wayside, and Fang can generally assume his role well enough if needed; she's not good at it but for me at least, she was acceptable seeing as it wasn't a role I spent a majority of my time in. He's kind of a subpar Commando despite Lightning-level strength due to late Blitz and no Faultsiphon, which feels a bit weird but I guess it makes sense since the women emphasise killing things and he emphasises not dying. In hindsight he may have served me comparably to Lightning for a third, though - I'd have traded off some offence for better chaining and his Sentinel may well have served me better than Lightning's medic (unsure, would have had to test). So... better than I thought since I felt he was struggling to find a party slot for a while.


It's overall not a badly balanced cast (though it might risk being a bit unbalanced at individual POINTS) and pretty fun to chew through what with all the role paradigms and whatnot. There's even a lot of stuff I haven't yet really considered (secondary roles which are... actually pretty interesting potentially despite the lower role level) which is fun. Game does a great job of making a cast which feels distinct while fundamentally having similar tools to work with. I have basically nothing but positive things to say about the game's role system, with its 6 jobs that all manage to feel very useful.


Aesthetics-wise, awesome visuals and music which is a mixed bag (solid enough, but then you get things like the final dungeon battle theme...) but generally decent. I don't have a strong opinion on it.


Polish-wise, generally good. The ability to restart outside a battle (including upon death) is wonderful and I'd love to see more games do this given that it allows games to be much more challenging without kicking you in the crotch should you die. The game's minimap takes steps so that you won't be lost and know how to advance the plot, which I approve of, since I no longer play RPGs to put up with garbage like getting lost. And the fact that all PCs get full CP out of battle is great; it allows you to switch PCs as the circumstances dictate, and/or experiment with parties, without being fucked over for this. There are some flaws here, though, such as the saving system which defaults to a weird slot and caused me to accidentally save over some locations I wanted to keep. Game needed to save paradigms when you changed parties, somehow. Too many points of no return as others have also alluded to.


Game gets a 9/10. It... just feels very overall complete, and in general respresents a lot of what I'd like to see more of in the genre. It has real innovation; it has bold writing, it avoids the tropes of the genre I dislike, it doesn't waste my time. I don't think it's for everyone; crazy people who love their non-linearity and towns and roleplaying (haha yes RPGs lack roleplaying, is is funny but true and they are better for it) obviously aren't going to care for it. For me, though? It's all things I want, none of the garbage I don't. Great stuff. I thought Radiant Historia was good but FF13 is clearly better at most everything. Miight even be a 10 but I'm definitely not willing to annoint it that without a lot more mulling it over; how badly do its lategame writing problems hold it back? Ultimately, where does its gameplay fall compared to other greats? etc. 9 will do for now.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2011, 05:47:46 PM by Dark Holy Elf »

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Grefter

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #2088 on: August 24, 2011, 08:15:01 PM »
*Shakes fist at you kids and your having fun and liking stuff*

Suprised at nothing about Chapter 10 map stuff but yeah otherwise?  You covered pretty much everything and I -still- don't understand.  You pretty much like all the stuff where I was massively turned off by it (the lack of towns/roleplay and linearity are not problems for me personally).  Glad you liked it and obviously purchase absolutely justified at this point.
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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #2089 on: August 24, 2011, 10:15:12 PM »
FF13-gasm

... you're weird.

Anyway, it's good to see someone else with a positive opinion of FF13, but the amount of praise piled onto its plot and characters is baffling. I can almost reconcile the praise for the characters, since you -did- seem to like Sazh, Light, and Snow the best, and they seem the most worthwhile, but the praise for the presentation feels off. I'm just going to chalk it up to us never liking the same things, but when I saw the Ch7 Hope/Snow emo-rage-scene, I was getting Xenosaga-level narm.

Generally agree about the points on the gameplay though. The cast was well-balanced and unique in their builds; and jobs all felt useful and distinct. Also, I really appreciated the way the game was linear/easy, but rewarded good play and didn't bother with things like getting lost or restarting from the beginning if you die.

... you're still weird. Seriously, FF13 > RH?

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #2090 on: August 25, 2011, 12:02:31 AM »
FF13-gasm

... you're weird.

Anyway, it's good to see someone else with a positive opinion of FF13, but the amount of praise piled onto its plot and characters is baffling. I can almost reconcile the praise for the characters, since you -did- seem to like Sazh, Light, and Snow the best, and they seem the most worthwhile, but the praise for the presentation feels off. I'm just going to chalk it up to us never liking the same things, but when I saw the Ch7 Hope/Snow emo-rage-scene, I was getting Xenosaga-level narm.

I can't speak for FF13 in particular, but Elfboy always seemed to have a knack to be able to like characters even though they're not -likable- off a gut feeling. That's something that's often hard to reconcile in literary theory and appreciation.

EDIT: Also, -of course he's weird-.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2011, 12:04:14 AM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #2091 on: August 25, 2011, 12:28:19 AM »
FFTA2 - Just started this. It's cute. Seems very plot light.
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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #2092 on: August 25, 2011, 02:18:42 AM »
FFTA2 - Just started this. It's cute. Seems very plot light.

Got past the intro? Congrats, you've seen 70% of the game's genuine plot!
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #2093 on: August 25, 2011, 02:46:22 AM »
FF13-gasm

... you're weird.

Those who fanboy over VPDS, glass houses, etc. :p

Quote
Anyway, it's good to see someone else with a positive opinion of FF13, but the amount of praise piled onto its plot and characters is baffling. I can almost reconcile the praise for the characters, since you -did- seem to like Sazh, Light, and Snow the best, and they seem the most worthwhile, but the praise for the presentation feels off.

I'd definitely elevate Hope to that group, but aside from that, yeah. Presentation... yeah fair. I won't defend it later (as seems obvious) but I thought it was very good for a long time.

Bear in mind I liked Xenosaga-level "narm" (which I'm interpreting as characters being highly emotional) a lot more than much of the DL (the big XS3 Virgil scene is chalk-full of it, and I love that). The difference is I thought Xenosaga characters are pretty terrible most of the time, which is a crying shame.

Can't think of much RH ultimately does better than the game, as I said! <_< I like RH, but it's dreadfully unambitious which is going to hurt it against any really high-tier games (i.e. anything you consider a 10/10 or close to it).

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #2094 on: August 25, 2011, 04:23:10 AM »
It's either an extremely weird mindfuck (which... I wouldn't put past the game, but I'm not especially sold on it) or seems irreconcilable with the scenes both before and after. Oh well. If anyone has an explanation for it I may have missed I would like to hear it, but I'd be surprised if there's one that isn't some level of writing fail.

This one of those "fal'Cie=Etro divinely intervened" moments that you don't have to give much thoughts about.

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #2095 on: August 25, 2011, 05:20:56 AM »
I'd count the things that aren't writing failures, myself.  Faster.

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #2096 on: August 25, 2011, 08:09:45 AM »
Elfboy.  Still has atrocious taste.

Also, mind that I haven't actually played the game but did watch a friend play through some of it, but "The game doesn't waste your time?"  What?  Whaaaaaaat.  What.

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #2097 on: August 25, 2011, 02:57:36 PM »
Still really just playing LoL. Continuing the levelling climb. Try to get at least two games in with each free champion on the week.

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #2098 on: August 25, 2011, 09:55:10 PM »
Deus Ex- about five hours in.  Don't feel like I've even scratched the surface yet, but I sort of wandered around Detroit looking for shit to steal and/or investigate.  So far, this game is... actually really good. They even solved the "stealth kills are super godly" problem that Assassin's Creed and Alpha Protocol had by tying them to your energy charges, so you can only do so many of them at once (though they do come back over time).

Also when you knock out a dude or dart them instead of killing them? Eventually it wears off, rather than lasting forever like in a lot of games.  Was interesting when I was in a firefight and the guys who I had darted or knocked out when I was trying to be sneaky woke up and started shooting at me from the other direction.

It would seem that, despite being published by Square, they had literally no input on this game, which explains a lot.

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Re: Playin' any games today, Flying Nun? (WGAYP - 2011 Edition)
« Reply #2099 on: August 26, 2011, 06:37:33 AM »
Grefter: SMT Strange Journey.



I gave another chance to 360 games I didn't like. They didn't deserve it!

Sacred 2: Followed a build guide this time.
Awful Diablo-like. There's no respecc potion so you better not screw up your build. After playing for one hour you've gotten all the attacks you're going to use for the whole game and they aren't going to get particularly more interesting. Plot, characters, settings are generic western fantasy with elves. Combat is very simple smash-smash-heal potion.
The game is extremely non linear for a Diablo like. Like in Fallout games, the main quest is a very small part of the game and the game world is huge. or  That... would actually be good if exploring led to interesting locales or interesting sidequests. In here this only makes the main quest seem short and unbalanced.
As an alternative to a MMORPG, this is probably awesome!

Both Halo 3 and Gears of Wars 2 (both played as couch co-op games): Gameplay is a hell of a lot worse than Mass Effect 2. Cutscenes get skipped like they were FFX-3 cutscenes.
Both games use a really limited weapons system. There are a ton of different weapons lying around that you can pick up, but you can only have two or three available at once. This is now used in a ton of games, but I don't really see how it's a good idea. In fact, it's a terrible idea that's killed all my motivation to play the damn games. The weapons all feel balanced and similar and boring too!
Call of Juarez 2: Bound in Blood is the same game as Halo 3, without that annoying mechanic (and with a western setting I don't care about) I fnished Call of Juarez and I'm not getting past the first level of Halo 3. This is how bad that idea was.
Gears of Wars 2 is worse because its characters are so big and so sloooooooow. Gears of Wars 2 is Little Money: The game.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2011, 06:39:10 AM by Fenrir »