Good Morning 2011: Wherein the emo comes to roost

[metroid composite]

Yeah, what?

Dressing up fancy is fun.

I only do it every once in a while, because playing video games is also fun, as is browsing the internet.  But I mean...if you took away my games, books, internet, and writing/math proofs, then you'd better believe I'd be doing a whoooooole lot of dress-up in my spare time.

[Anthony Edward Stark]

You know what they call making assumptions based on past experiences most of the time? "Learning."

[Idun]

She's failing a couple life lessons then.

Talking about fail.. should I get this free flu shot------ everyone I know who gets them (which isn't many) end up getting a new strain of the virus. . . . : |

[metroid composite]

You know what they call making assumptions based on past experiences most of the time? "Learning."

That sounds more like "stereotyping".  And it is prone to certain mental traps; for instance:

http://xkcd.com/385/

As I understand it, the actual process of human learning tends to be much more experimental and less retrospective--more along the lines of a scientific method.

[metroid composite]

Talking about fail.. should I get this free flu shot------ everyone I know who gets them (which isn't many) end up getting a new strain of the virus. . . . : |

Yes you should.  I was getting a flu shot regularly for years, never got seriously ill.  Went to Georgia where there was almost no enthusiasm or infrastructure for flu shots to the point that I just gave up looking, and later that year got the most horribly violently ill I've been in about 5 years.

[Luther Lansfeld]

Of course it is prone to stereotypes, but sometimes having a filter is worth it. For example, if I am at a party, and I see a number of people, one who looks like someone who'd have my interests (a chemistry t-shirt or something video game related) and other people dressed in ways I associate with shallow, vain people (like if you have a purse that cost 500+ dollars), I am going to decide based on how they look who I think I might be more interested in chatting with. Now, I probably won't consciously think this person is bad or whatever, but I will probably discern that her life priorities are different than mine. Maybe I'll be wrong and maybe my initial opinion will be totally defied, but because you don't have the luxury to chat with 100 people individually, you make snap judgments and act on them.

[Idun]

I agree with what everyone is saying, but making holier-than-thou comments (this girl did) generalizing an entire sex is just short-sighted, and I guess she forgets all the skimpy stuff she wears. If she was asking people to respond to how to defy stereotypes (she says focus on mind more than appearance), then being accusatory as she was opens an entirely different can of worms. But apparently since I decided to put on my heels and skinny jeans today, I wasn't developing my mind. . .  according to her logic.

I'm trying to get in the habit of just talking to everyone. It's awkward. It's weird. But I don't know much of anyone here, so I try to drop my quick judgments.

[NotMiki]

Someone I know was questioning why women dress a certain way (provocatively last night), why we don't own up to how we dress and how affects everyone else  . .  she deleted the entire part (where her boyfriend and sister annoyingly chimed in) where I and another person mentioned part of the problem with this entire thing is that we need to stop judging people by the way they look. Fundamental problem right there. MLK was doing it right.

I was partly upset (which is why I'm still talking about it) that she decided to play the game of no-one-offends-my-boyfriend-and-I-don't-want-to-consider-that-he-has-already-insulted-several-of-my-friends. I feel pretty thankful that I haven''t been close with her in less than a decade or else I would have deleted her.

I have heard it argued that in a professional setting like work, you should dress non-provocatively, because apparently males in much higher percentage than females tend to be visual thinkers, not forget a visual memory, and more likely to get distracted by distracting visuals.  (This last point is also apparently why you shouldn't use lots of sparkly jewlery and glitter in a business setting, at least if you have male coworkers whose productivity you don't want to mess up).

I'm guessing the context for this was not "in a professional work setting", however.

I am here to say it's totally OK to judge people based on how they dress.  The problem isn't making assumptions based on how people choose to appear in public, it's making the wrong assumptions.  "I find that person interesting to look at therefore they must be interested in me looking at them" is a pervasive one (though it is, of course, sometimes correct).  I'm not saying it's ok for men (or anyone, really) to go around blaming sexy women for scrambling their neurons.  But I think the way one dresses does communicate a fair amount.  Think about a man who occasionally wears a Green Lantern shirt, or a woman who is 4'2" and wears stilettos at work every single day.  You can make some assumptions about these people (likes comic books; doesn't like craning her neck to talk to coworkers).  They may turn out to be wrong, but probability is on your side.  Stereotypes aren't bad; stereotypes based on bad assumptions are bad.

mc...I have to say that only someone in HR could come up with the theory that interestingly-dressed women will destroy mens' ability to work.  The underlying assumption is that 8 hours of no distractions whatsoever is the ideal work environment, and one can only believe that if one views employees are fungible automatons - cogs in a machine that can be swapped out for new ones if they start to show wear.

I agree with what everyone is saying, but making holier-than-thou comments (this girl did) generalizing an entire sex is just short-sighted, and I guess she forgets all the skimpy stuff she wears. If she was asking people to respond to how to defy stereotypes (she says focus on mind more than appearance), then being accusatory as she was opens an entirely different can of worms. But apparently since I decided to put on my heels and skinny jeans today, I wasn't developing my mind. . .  according to her logic.

I'm trying to get in the habit of just talking to everyone. It's awkward. It's weird. But I don't know much of anyone here, so I try to drop my quick judgments.

Getting to know people is a lot like oil painting, each impression adding a new layer of paint until you have something akin to a three-dimensional view of them.  Your initial impressions are valid, but they're incomplete.

EDIT:

[metroid composite]

mc...I have to say that only someone in HR could come up with the theory that interestingly-dressed women will destroy mens' ability to work.  The underlying assumption is that 8 hours of no distractions whatsoever is the ideal work environment, and one can only believe that if one views employees are fungible automatons - cogs in a machine that can be swapped out for new ones if they start to show wear.

It's stuff I've read about how to dress for business attire if you're going to board meetings; how to dress if you're giving a presentation.  That kind of thing.

Obviously business attire goes through trends like anything else, but something tells me that we won't be having an upcoming trend whereby all the female CEOs start wearing sparkly gem-covered spandex outfits with blinking LED lights and a view of cleavage.  Obviously this wouldn't be distracting to everyone, but it might be distracting to enough people whom you want focused on the contents of your presentation.

(On the other hand, if you're going out to a nightclub, you probably do want people focused on your clothing).

[NotMiki]

Obviously business attire goes through trends like anything else

Suit and tie --> Suit and tie

[Grefter]

Mens fashion vs Womens fashion there Jim.  There is still things that cycle in that Suit and Tie stuff.  Are French Cuffs in or out (and this will vary by industry, you don't wear them in banking unless you are on the up and up), striped or solid ties, same for your shirts.  Collar styles as well.  There is a lot you can do with even just a two piece suit.  Sometimes it is the eighties and three piece suits are back in.

something tells me that we won't be having an upcoming trend whereby all the female CEOs start wearing sparkly gem-covered spandex outfits with blinking LED lights and a view of cleavage.

I see you don't think that female businesswomen are reading DC Reboot then.

[Idun]

Obviously business attire goes through trends like anything else

Suit and tie --> Suit and tie

I feel it's more like:

Suit and tie -> mismatch blazer and wristwatch -> suit and tie -> tie and wristwatch -> wristwatch -> tie

....

(:

[Lady Door]

[Anthony Edward Stark]

Mens fashion vs Womens fashion there Jim.  There is still things that cycle in that Suit and Tie stuff.  Are French Cuffs in or out (and this will vary by industry, you don't wear them in banking unless you are on the up and up), striped or solid ties, same for your shirts.  Collar styles as well.  There is a lot you can do with even just a two piece suit.  Sometimes it is the eighties and three piece suits are back in.

Now that autumn is here, my vest combos are out, but I miss them already.

[Luther Lansfeld]

I need a new pair of tennis shoes. Mine have a big hole in the side and I live in one of the rainiest cities in North America.

[Anthony Edward Stark]

I live in a deciduous rain forest so there.

Mine actually just came apart. Replaced them with motorcycle boots cause I had a feeling I would need to kick down a door. Also they look awesome on me.

[NotMiki]

It's stuff I've read about how to dress for business attire if you're going to board meetings; how to dress if you're giving a presentation.  That kind of thing.

Styles come and styles go, but I think this can be summed up (for women) as "wear makeup.  not too slutty."

[NotMiki]

unrelatedly: first court appearance tomorrow.  wish me luck.

[Cotigo]

That means something so much different when it comes from Jim and not... most other people I know who would have to say that phrase.

[Nitori]

[Lady Door]

Including "manager" in my new title - without giving me any people to manage - makes me very happy.

We'll see if I stay happy when we get to talking salary.

[Idun]

Styles come and styles go, but I think this can be summed up (for women) as "wear makeup.  not too slutty."

I was thinking about this. What's not too slutty makeup? (Hope you did well on your court appearance, by the way!)

[Hunter Sopko]

He walked out a free man. At least he has that going for him.

[NotMiki]

Styles come and styles go, but I think this can be summed up (for women) as "wear makeup.  not too slutty."

I was thinking about this. What's not too slutty makeup? (Hope you did well on your court appearance, by the way!)

Thanks!  It went OK.  didn't get everything we wanted, but we extracted a concession from the defendant and made the court aware of our position in case we need to come back later.  For my part I was responsive to questions and spoke articulately, though I wasn't able to make all the points I wanted to.  I'm also patting myself on the back for thinking of a smartass comment and managing to restrain myself from saying it in front of the court attorney even though I really wanted to.

'Too slutty' is a tough standard to articulate.  I guess...if you have enough makeup on to go on TV but you're not going on TV, you're too slutty?

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

The standard of too slutty also varies on how sexist the viewer is.