Miscellaneous Links for the Miscellaneously Inclined: 2011 Edition!!!

[Captain K.]

Warning, the following is a Ke-(dollar sign)-ha video.  Mainly linking it for MC because it has unicorns and a man-bra.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFWX0hWCbng

[Grefter]

There's a difference between "fixing" and "improving".  Like...the part about medical exams for people who have been penitrated (which then provides some proof of "hey, this person has bruising and evidence of sex, and they say they were raped", as opposed to "It's your word against the prison ward's word, and who's going to believe an inmate?"

Absolutely agree that is a good step.  It isn't a managerial shift and neither is it simple because to have confidence in the outcome it needs to be performed or have oversight from someone outside of the prison system.  That has a cost to it.  Even if you do introduce it performed by the Penitentiary staff there is a cost involved and still requires the victims to come forward about it and have confidence in the outcome.  If it is possible to have it forced on inmates then it can just be used for further harrasment like the solitary confinement for safety has been.

Talking about Ke$ha, why in the fuck is she within a hundred metres of a Unicorn?  That is not how they are meant to work.  Also the man bra is standard Ke$ha "Turning it back on the men" uh thing.  Way to ruin a perfectly good jacket by tearing it to pieces when you already had it unbuttoned bro. 

I will be so glad when this talk into autotune and pretend it is singing phase of music is over.  I heard a song from someone yesterday that was all in a single octave of their regular speaking voice.  It made me die a little inside.

Edit - Fuck, I totally missed the chance to make a "This song about to blow" joke.

[Luther Lansfeld]

I can't get behind so-called singers that can't carry a tune, get paid for talking, how easy is that?

Well, maybe I could get behind that.

</Shatner>

[Shale]

http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2011/03/18/river_city_ransom_2/

River City Ransom 2 is coming, and being made by the original developers. Not the company that made the first game, mind you. The people.

[superaielman]

YAY

[Captain K.]

YAY

Iron Mike Ditka:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDwo7UCu-u8

[metroid composite]

I'm actually ok with autotune.

Kesha...I sometimes like her music (Get Sleasy in particular is pretty good, and a few others have decent hooks).  But for whatever reason I can't stand most of her videos.  Tik Tok she comes across as this drunken layabout that makes me want to scream "get off my lawn you miscreant".  But then there's the ones where she tries to get all cleaned up and present herself as a supermodel/sex symbol with clean straight hair, and I think to myself "Not buying it.  My suspension of disbelief is ruined."  What other videos does she have...hmm, actually, she's totally fine in "Your love is my drug" and "blah, blah, blah"; I hadn't seen either of those before.  Yeah, those are fine.  I suppose I don't really have an issue with "Take it off" either, more just...they can't really legally make a video that fits the song...but it feels like they didn't even try.

[Anthony Edward Stark]

Autotune is like the next step in pre-fabricated musicians and bands. At least back when they were putting five strangers together based on their looks selected by focus groups who couldn't play instruments or write their own music, at least they had to be able to sing a little bit.

[metroid composite]

Autotune is like the next step in pre-fabricated musicians and bands. At least back when they were putting five strangers together based on their looks selected by focus groups who couldn't play instruments or write their own music, at least they had to be able to sing a little bit.

If you compare 2010 to 2000, though, I'd actually argue there's more talent in 2010.  In 2000, most artists weren't writing any of their own work.  In 2010, most artists I've checked up on do write their own work (hell, ke$ha writes all her own stuff--that one surprised me).  And a lot of the artists can play instruments (see: Lady Gaga) they just don't in their normal performances.

I'm not sure I have a good reason for why.  Maybe production values have just gotten to the point that content is the only way to stand out of the crowd?  Maybe talent searching technology has just gotten better (Justin Beiber was found through Youtube videos of talent shows).

[Anthony Edward Stark]

If you write your own stuff, but your body of work is shitty, that's not too much of an improvement.

[Grefter]

It is cheaper to let people that can't write songs and can't sing write and sing music than it is to find a bunch of pretty people that can kind of sing and a song writer.  Presently you mostly just have to find a good producer and someone with some talent for mixing a catchy song (Commonly the same person).

Some stuff can come out with Autotune that is interesting and fun at times.  It shouldn't be anywhere near as prevalent as it is however.

You know who it hurts the most though MC?  The artist.  If an artist is reliant upon Autotune for their singing voice it is going to mean that their live shows are more than a bit lacking (or lip synched which defeats the entire purpose of a live show).  This is amazingly bad because for the majority of artists live shows is where they make their real profits.  A huge portion of album sales goes to the label where as concerts are expensive to run when they are big live shows, but get you a good return on your investment.

Also comparing 2000 to 2010 is going to run into some issues with trends.  Pop was on a downward slope from 2000 to 2006ish or so.  Indie Rock was getting its grass roots movements going, but sadly Emo stuff was where the charts were headed.  So I wouldn't be shocked at all to see most of the talent that can write shifting into those genres away from pop.

Check things like Linkin Park, all self written.  Alternately (ugh) Limp Bizkit, also all self written.  You are just looking in the wrong genres that were in at the time.

[metroid composite]

You know who it hurts the most though MC?  The artist.  If an artist is reliant upon Autotune for their singing voice it is going to mean that their live shows are more than a bit lacking (or lip synched which defeats the entire purpose of a live show).

It shouldn't.  You can do autotune in real-time.  Hell, I worked on a project that did autotune in real time.  (If you remember a few years back, when Activision was going to make "Sing Hero"?  Yeah.  We could make you hit every note on-key in time with the song.  Pity it never came out; it was actually pretty cool technology for a console game; I believe Rock Band's done it by now, though so I can safely mention it...please don't come kill me Bobby!!!)

Point is, real-time autotune is doable (and doable with mass market technology).

Check things like Linkin Park, all self written.  Alternately (ugh) Limp Bizkit, also all self written.  You are just looking in the wrong genres that were in at the time.

Fair; I was not really aware of much music outside of the teen girl scene at the time.  Which means no Linkin Park, no Eminem, yes Britney Spears, yes Backstreet Boys, yes N*Sync....

[Cotigo]

yes Britney Spears, yes Backstreet Boys, yes N*Sync....

Did it wrong.

[metroid composite]

yes Britney Spears, yes Backstreet Boys, yes N*Sync....

Did it wrong.

By most objective measures, absolutely.

But in my defence, I didn't know any better.  You see, growing up I listened to mostly classical (Mozart and Rachmaninoff in particular) as well as my parent's music (Elvis, The Beatles, and 50s and 60s music in general).  But at one point, I decided that I wanted to learn what modern popular music was all about.  So...I tuned into a weekly chart countdown television show (YTV's Hit List).  What I didn't realize at the time, was that the show had a 95% female audience, and was appealing to the Backstreet Boys fanbase by sticking within a relatively narrow genre.  It seems painfully obvious in retrospect, but I didn't know what to expect at the time.

And yeah, I have some pretty good guesses looking back as to why that particular music countdown show got me into modern music, where other exposure had me turning up my nose and returning to my Rachmaninoff.  But whatever the reason, I still have Aaron Carter lyrics memorized (and they're actually not that bad.  ...What? >_>)

[Anthony Edward Stark]

yes Britney Spears, yes Backstreet Boys, yes N*Sync....

Did it wrong.

Linkin Park was not much better, to be fair.

[Grefter]

Indeed the gap there in quality isn't as big as people would want you to think.

You were doing it right from the start though.  50's and 60's has some truely amazing stuff in there if your parents found the right stuff.  Having a father that was into Velvet Underground when he is about as remote from the New York music scene as you can get in the 60s/70s is great.

You can do it in real time, but you are relying on people that can't sing to hit anything close to the note you are after or if you aren't doing it on the fly, you are expecting them to have some really precise timing.  That or you are hiring someone who is way over experienced to work the mixing desk at a stage show.  Sure those guys are good, but to handle all that stuff and the autotune?  Mang they need to get out of the live scene and become a producer.

[Anthony Edward Stark]

http://vimeo.com/14724617

NSFW. There's some boobs and some language.

It's also The Warriors meets The Wizard.

[metroid composite]

You can do it in real time, but you are relying on people that can't sing to hit anything close to the note you are after or if you aren't doing it on the fly, you are expecting them to have some really precise timing.

Err...no?  You're thinking of traditional pitch correction that has gone on in recording studios for 25+ years, where people turn knobs to adjust a note up or down, and the resulting recording still sounds like everything is acoustic.  Autotune is...well...auto--it doesn't matter what the pitch input is, it will always have the same pitch output.  The tradeoff for autotune compared with professional pitch correction is that autotune sounds ridiculous and robotic, but that sound happens to be "in" right now.

The one thing you do have to do manually with autotune is if you're trying to adjust for resonance (like if you're trying to get a male voice to sound exactly like Lady Gaga).  But as long as you're working with the same artist, you should have consistent resonance, so this isn't a huge concern.

[Cotigo]

yes Britney Spears, yes Backstreet Boys, yes N*Sync....

Did it wrong.

Linkin Park was not much better, to be fair.

There's a reason I selectively omitted that from the quote.

EDIT:  Oh yeah as far as Limp Bizkit or whatever they spell it like goes:  They actually had some decent songs on their first album before Fred Durst ruined the band. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFh2KbNYwyw

Stellar, no.  Better than everything that they came out with afterwards, definitely.  Better than all the other bands currently being discussed from the late 90s-early 2000s? Absolutely.

[Hunter Sopko]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4CP72FLS4s4

Back, and to the left... back, and to the left... back, and to the left... back, and to the left...

Jonathan Quick is the first psionic goalie.

[Luther Lansfeld]

That's amazing.

[Grefter]

Err...no?  You're thinking of traditional pitch correction that has gone on in recording studios for 25+ years, where people turn knobs to adjust a note up or down, and the resulting recording still sounds like everything is acoustic.  Autotune is...well...auto--it doesn't matter what the pitch input is, it will always have the same pitch output.  The tradeoff for autotune compared with professional pitch correction is that autotune sounds ridiculous and robotic, but that sound happens to be "in" right now.

The one thing you do have to do manually with autotune is if you're trying to adjust for resonance (like if you're trying to get a male voice to sound exactly like Lady Gaga).  But as long as you're working with the same artist, you should have consistent resonance, so this isn't a huge concern.

Like I was saying, you still have to get the timing right to autotune live, otherwise the pitch is going to shift at the wrong time mid note if the singer doesn't have it spot on.  I don't trust them to get even that right.

[metroid composite]

Err...no?  You're thinking of traditional pitch correction that has gone on in recording studios for 25+ years, where people turn knobs to adjust a note up or down, and the resulting recording still sounds like everything is acoustic.  Autotune is...well...auto--it doesn't matter what the pitch input is, it will always have the same pitch output.  The tradeoff for autotune compared with professional pitch correction is that autotune sounds ridiculous and robotic, but that sound happens to be "in" right now.

The one thing you do have to do manually with autotune is if you're trying to adjust for resonance (like if you're trying to get a male voice to sound exactly like Lady Gaga).  But as long as you're working with the same artist, you should have consistent resonance, so this isn't a huge concern.

Like I was saying, you still have to get the timing right to autotune live, otherwise the pitch is going to shift at the wrong time mid note if the singer doesn't have it spot on.  I don't trust them to get even that right.

The note will still be right, you just might have the wrong word lining up with the note (and if you're only off by a little, it won't really be noticeable).  But also: I find your lack of faith disturbing--I mean, go to a karaoke bar; the things that people struggle with is less rhythm, and more sound of the voice and hitting notes.  You might as well cite "remembering the lyrics" as something artists might struggle with.

(And at any rate, timing and remembering words is something you have to remember for lipsyncing almost as much as you do for autotune, so uh...).

[Grefter]

Yeah I don't have much faith in artists that barely make their own music >_>

The more you dance around and the harder it is to see you the less good you have to be at lip synching.  I wouldn't suggest a stage show that throws you up on a big projection for example.  But then that isn't really what we are covering.

Also timing is different when you need to stick close to a beat and when you need to get the split second timing right for a not pitch shift in a preprogrammed device.  Rhythm is one thing.  Playing/singing perfectly in time is not something that comes without a lot of practice (See any youth orchestra at a practice.  Those kids can all play their instruments and keep time.  Just keeping it together and with the conductor is always shocking at first).

[metroid composite]

(See any youth orchestra at a practice.  Those kids can all play their instruments and keep time.  Just keeping it together and with the conductor is always shocking at first).

The fundamental problem with youth orchestras is that people practice at home and then try to join together.  So...they've probably come in practicing slightly different timings.  Also: playing instruments is hard; when you're expending a lot of your focus on playing the instrument, you have less focus for timing.  Another problem with youth orchestras is that there's like...50 people.  That not only increases chances of individual screwup, but also if the person next to you is a little off, that can throw you off as well.

Compare that to autotune.  The background mix is already recorded; you're probably just going to reuse that--so...when you're in practices, you can practice along in a sound environment much closer to your performance environment.  (Technically if the youth orchestra has a recording of the piece they want to play, they can use this technique too, but they'd want to coordinate since different recordings of classical music have different timings).  Next, while there are damn challenging things you can do with voice, most autotune songs aren't really in the "damn challenging" category.  I can sing along timing-wise with most songs I hear on the radio...while driving; it doesn't even take much focus.  Third, there's generally only one singer for autotune--you can do harmony with the autotune itself (who needs backup)?  Fourth, that person is not going to get screwed up by a human error by the violinist beside them--the recorded mix they're singing over is very predictable.


But...I dunno.  To me, the art is in the composition, so I'm not too worried how easy or hard the stage performance may be.  We remember names like Mozzart and Beethoven, but I can't name a famous violinist from more than 30 years ago.  For a more modern example like...does Krafwerk even have live performances?  *searches* apparently yes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZT2MrVMHAs but I'm not even sure if the band is visible at all, what if anything, they're doing live, etc....