Season 63, Week 1

[OblivionKnight]

EDIT: Also, hmmm. Having played a fair deal of XS3, I have to ask - does Shion actually win -that- fight? She's below average speed first turn, and, as far as I know, has little recourse against confusion. I thought Albel's confusion status was turn one? That'd put the ball in his court pretty decisively regardless.

1-Albel Nox (SO3) vs Shion Uzuki (XSs)

1-Albel Nox (SO3[/b]) vs Shion Uzuki (XSs)- XS 3 might do it, but the ranked forms do not

Actually, XS3 is ranked - she's ranked as XSs, which is supposed to indicate multiple game appearances.  So, notes just so I can torture Super some more! 
- XS3 form has Phantom Fly, which decimates Albel - he can't even resist her best damage, as it's Beam element!  While she's below average speed in this form...
- XS3 form has a +30 speed armour she can use.  Awful defenses, but the speed is all that matters.  It sets her to 90 speed to a 61 average or so.  Even if you factor in all the speed boosters, that's still 90 to a 70 average.  Albel is above average running speed, but most people don't consider that, placing him as average.  Which means...
- Her XS2 form, if you allow Erde Kaiser (which is unique to her and something she has the EP for, unlike XS1...), demolishes him, as she's above average there.  Now...
- XS1 form probably loses - average speed, loses all her MP way to fast, and 25% instant death isn't much to rely on, particularly since, uh, Albel can block it

All that being said, Albel is sexier.  Match to him.

Man, does no one read what I post anymore ;_;  The speed boost lets her go first, and Phantom Fly basically nukes Albel's chances there.

Albel Nox (SO3) vs Shion Uzuki (XSs) - Dear OK, I hope you are happy at the fact that you've just given Shion another vote ;_;. You monster. Love, Tide.

Dear Tide,

Consider it payback for making my girlfriend want to stalk me on Skype.  ^_^

Love,
OK

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

So, it depends on how fast you see Albel! (And OK, speed views on ARPGs also changed a bit since then too, more people considering the combo of running speed+attack recovery and startup and all! You could view Albel as faster than Shion too regardless, who knows)

[Dhyerwolf]

Gen (Saga) vs Mio (G1) - No Saga, but I'll just note that I suspect I'd be voting Mio since her HP isn't THAT pathetic.  It's a 3 person party you have and you can't entirely spam the best damage moves, so the damage average falls some along with the support credit.  (Okay, that's kinda untrue, G1 items are cheaty face and can restore all your SP, but I don't think they're storebought and I'll throw G1 bosses a minor bone.)

Okay, I feel like chiming in a few things here. First, I'll have to note Mio gets 4HKOed -in-game- by Dhyer's average damage (which he noted he toned down for factoring in MT/resources shenanigans).

I don't think I toned down the damage, only noted that you can't carry too much over into MT. Resources for the ST stuff should be fine at least, but yeah, the time spent restocking MT alone would be a drop.

Regarding Shion 3...by all logic, a cast of buffer/statusers even more than usual wants speed. I normally don't buy twinked for speed averages, but...they can all make the same trade in the DL and that might be what they'd all want for the turn 1 speed. And then Shion is still slower!

[Magic Fanatic]

Tal: Ultima's 5 CTR, yes. This makes it around as fast as something like Fire. Just checked the BMG. I thought you meant 5 CT as in it gets 5 CT a clocktick, which made me really confused as that would put it on par with Meteor for speed.


Paula (EB) vs Alma Beoulve (FFT) - Don't see what the big fuss is, since this is pretty clear cut. After M-Barrier, Paula would be lucky to make any damage stick (ew that damage against Hasted+Regen?). If you're holding her to her equips at the final battle, Paula's best course of action may be just to drain MP. Too bad for her that the PP drain sucks. Any other thing she does is pretty much useless (PSI Thunder is a terrible choice even if it destroys barriers on hit) and only delays the inevitable.

As far as I've interpreted, when the average turn in terms of speed takes 10 clock ticks to get to, anything that is 5 MORE clock ticks on top of that to activation is approximately half a turn.  That may be the angle that Tal is getting at.

Nevermind running into people like me, who are harsh enough to restrict characters who can change equips to those you actually have time to go into a menu and actually change the equips of.

[OblivionKnight]

Gen (Saga) vs Mio (G1) - No Saga, but I'll just note that I suspect I'd be voting Mio since her HP isn't THAT pathetic.  It's a 3 person party you have and you can't entirely spam the best damage moves, so the damage average falls some along with the support credit.  (Okay, that's kinda untrue, G1 items are cheaty face and can restore all your SP, but I don't think they're storebought and I'll throw G1 bosses a minor bone.)

Okay, I feel like chiming in a few things here. First, I'll have to note Mio gets 4HKOed -in-game- by Dhyer's average damage (which he noted he toned down for factoring in MT/resources shenanigans).

I don't think I toned down the damage, only noted that you can't carry too much over into MT. Resources for the ST stuff should be fine at least, but yeah, the time spent restocking MT alone would be a drop.

Regarding Shion 3...by all logic, a cast of buffer/statusers even more than usual wants speed. I normally don't buy twinked for speed averages, but...they can all make the same trade in the DL and that might be what they'd all want for the turn 1 speed. And then Shion is still slower!

As I noted in my original post, even if you assume all speed boosting maxed (which hurts defenses, offenses, etc. for basically everyone) and included in the average, Shion is still above average (90 vs. 70 or so), as her armour is +30 AGI, while the rest max out at +5 AGI (although I think there might have been a +10 AGI there). 

*checks*  Actually, a bit less.  +5 for Jin on armour, KOS-MOS's best is speed boosting already, +5 for chaos, +5 for MOMO on armours (and +30 for Shion).  MOMO gets a +10 boost on weapons, Jr. +5, +6 for Ziggy and KOS-MOS, but these are about half the power of their ultimate weapons, which drops a good bit of damage.  Assuming the armours are all added, she's 90 to a 67 average; 90 to a 71 average if you assume all the weapons are considered as well as the armours.

So, it depends on how fast you see Albel! (And OK, speed views on ARPGs also changed a bit since then too, more people considering the combo of running speed+attack recovery and startup and all! You could view Albel as faster than Shion too regardless, who knows)

I was running under the assumption that most people have used for a while - I meant no offense at all by it.  Although I'd think that hurts Aura Wall a bit, since it has a bit of start-up and recovery to it.  Not sure how people would interpret that, as I've never seen it quantified nor been exposed to it as a general practice yet, but it would have to be pretty good respect to beat that.  Course, may mean the XS2 form has less of a chance with that view.

Man, screw you people for driving me to argue this. ;_;

[Taishyr]

Godlike:

1-Xorn (G3) vs Rashidi (OB) - Too durable for Rashidi.
Rosa Harvey (FF4) vs Xenobia (Lunar:SSSC) 5 Rosas vs Xenobia? Yeah, that turns out well.
Chris Lightfellow (S3) vs Magus (CT) - Boss form outtanked with ease, PC form gets Silent Lake'd and can't pull Black Hole in time.

Heavy:

Alfina de Pamela (G3) vs Eileen (S1) - I allow half SP starting. Easily enough for Alfina to win here.
Zalbard (SF2) vs Yuiri (S3) - Need to check Yuiri, but this is my gutcheck. Wind Rune + Yuiri swarm should do it.
Ershin (BoF4) vs 4-Georg Prime (Suikos) - Aaaaahahahahahahaha ahahahaha aha ha.

Middle:

Gallows Caradine (WA3) vs Garr (BoF3) - uh fuck. Do I give Gallows the medium... Yeah, I think I toss the cast the elemental mediums if nothing else. Gives Gallows a decent chance at stalling this out... but I don't feel like mathing this, so whoever wins wins, I won't complain~
Paula (EB) vs 3-Alma Beoulve (FFT) - I have like zero respect for Alma and this still isn't close.

Light:

1-Gares (OB) vs Jogurt (SF1) - ...what?
Kirkis (S1) vs Kahn (BoF4) - Need to look up Kirkis. EDIT: Did so, think he can muscle through.
Connie (S3) vs 4-Alonso (G3)

[Monkeyfinger]

Godlike:

Rosa Harvey (FF4) vs Xenobia (Lunar:SSSC): I generally kneejerk against Lunar bosses in fights like this.
Chris Lightfellow (S3) vs Magus (CT): Regardless of the crit argument, isn't Magus nothing more than a bleeding dummy under silent lake? Assuming his barrier phase has like 10x PCHP, he still loses most of that without even being able to fight back at all, and once the barrier falls he's just a goner.
Zio (PS4) vs Melfice (G2): I don't see Zio getting the 2HKO.

Heavy:

Surt (VP1) vs Fei Wong Fong (XG): Fei does it though.

Middle:

Gen (Saga) vs Mio (G1): Same kind of match as the above 2. Going with Gen not getting the fast kill he needs.

[Meeplelard]

Regarding CT in FFT...

REmember that charge times in FFT do not *ADD* to the character's speed.  At most, its like a delayed action, so it may shift Paula's turn to come first, but it doesn't slow Alma down otherwise.  A charge time and Speed are independent of one another, odd as it sounds.  So when Ultima resolves, Alma would have like half her next turn already charged up, so she gets it the same time.

YOu can tell this is the case most easily with long charge times.  Take Cloud, have him charge Cherry Blossom.  He'll more than likely get another turn BEFORE Cherry Blossom Resolves, allowing him to cancel the action with something else.

So it more delays when Alma's turn resolves, but it doesn't affect things like double turns and such.

Next off...

Magic, you're confusing PSI Shield I'm sure.  The version you're talking about is Ness', which halves Physical damage, and the enhanced version has the recoil property.
Paual's NULLS Magic Damage, and the Enhanced version reflects the attacks back at the opponent.

Before you say "Hey, Paula has damage immunity to Alma!", I'm calling bullshit on that cause they hit the exact same things in game, and Alpha is inferior to Beta in everyway sans PP Cost.  For Ultima to ignore PSI Shield Beta, it means its ignoring PSI Shield Alpha.

[DjinnAndTonic]

But Ultima doesn't ignore damage immunity, it ignores reflect. I see the argument, but it feels unintuitive. Does FFT have anything resembling a Null Magic status that Ultima does/doesn't hit? Maybe just akin to Shell?

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Reflection is a form of damage immunity for one side. It just has an added benefit, so to speak.

EDIT: There -are- other forms of magical damage immunity in FFT, those being the Innocent status and 0 Faith, which are far more comprehensive magic-immunity mechanics, but both of those are innately tied to MDef. EB's buff is likely mechanically closer to Reflect than to Innocent/0 Faith, considering the lack of MDef in EB and the existence of spell-reflecting mechanics that certain spells can circumvent, which ties into the idea of FFT Reflect rather than Innocent/Faith, which get any and all Faith-based damage. But that can get argued all day, since there -is- magical damage in FFT that doesn't hit Faith, but is affected by MDU (Draw Out sez hi).

EDIT: Which is to say this is all pretty murky interp-wise on -that- end, but, as far as I see, the average of interps favors Alma rather than Paula in the overall match, arguments about Ultima aside, without even getting into the basic merit of the question (a spell that beats a crappy magic immunity spell in-game beating a crappy in-game magic immunity spell from another game =/= rocket science).

[Monkeyfinger]

If Ultima only ignores that one specific form of magic protection (reflect), I have no problem saying that anything which works differently stops it, no matter how it compares to its own game's reflect.

So alma's only bet is to win with staff damage. Can lesalia form do that? (I don't let alma change equips, and that last one uses a heal staff)

[superaielman]

Lesalia Alma varies from puny to low middle, depending. If you give her levels, she has a reasonable shot at it.  Mbarrier's tough to slug against.  She also wants a full pool of FFT equips there for the ice resistance.

[Tide]

and Alpha is inferior to Beta in everyway sans PP Cost.

FUN FACT: The only time where this is not true is against Gigyas. Casting PSI Shield Beta/Omega will actually cause the spell to bounce back to you. As such, Alpha/Delta is superior in this single instance.