Season 63 Bootings

[metroid composite]

Shin vs. Gabocha would probably make most people go "wha?" to at least one of them and not care about the other. Apathy is bad for interest.

I firmly believe that there is no benefit to booting anyone because it will not generate any interest in the DL. If people are apathetic about the DL then it is something that can be solved by having new people in, not kicking old people out. At least, that's how I feel.

I haven't voted on the DL in years, and I'd say obscurity is the biggest issue; it just got to the point that I would assume that I couldn't vote on any matches (especially as more and more games I hadn't played got ranked).

That said, no votes: I'm not following the DL right now anyway, so I'm not the person to appease.

EDIT:

Djinn: honestly because VP1 characters are just infinitely more memorable than Suikoden II characters due to how recruitment works.  The fact that, honestly, a VP1 booting would be basically "the entire VP1 cast except maybe Mystina" (that is, everyone who didn't get a VP2 option) because everyone is right around the same in terms of skillset and plot worth didn't help, of course.

If it makes you feel better, I actually did ask and people said the same thing I kneejerked so.

That's... yeah, I guess that's valid. Though I wouldn't be too unhappy with a Boot All VP1-only Einherjar except Jelanda, Lawfer, Lucian, Mystina deal. And maybe have room for some fan favorites like Badrach, Shiho, Yumei, Aelia. But dropping say... Suo, Grey, Kashell, Nanami, GANDAR... it just seems like it would cut out some of the filler.

I <3 Nanami (not quite as much as Yumei, granted) and Kashell is on my top 10 list of most hated characters, and find Grey pretty memorable for his ridiculous voice.  So...yeah, not necessarily an easy cast for nailing apathy.  I'll grant you Suo, and...sure, Gandar just because he's overshadowed by Lezard.

[Cmdr_King]

I haven't played CC/S2, and at this point my memory of " unplayed DL ranked games" isn't what it used to be. It doesn't help that the one name I did immediately recognize from the CC list was Glenn, who immediately made me wonder if the person who compiled the CC list was out of his mind. Not exactly a good first impression to make.

Chrono Cross is almost entirely pathsplit in one form or another, right?  Glenn is on one of those path splits; the path split that is "Save Kid from poison" gets you Korcha, Razzly, and Doc, while the "Leave her to die" branch gets you Macha, Glenn, and... I believe Mel.  I'll need to look that one up again.  So you can see where Glenn, in the modern ranking environment, would struggle to get in despite his merits, and that's the criteria I was using here.

Put another way, I find it hard to justify putting Korcha on the list but not Glenn and so both should appear on the list even though Glenn stands a much better chance of surviving.

Suikoden II... put it this way.  Those characters, with the exception of Gimiju and Lo Wen (the latter has a water rune, the former basically attacks twice every turn), have the approximate duelling ability of Duessel, and rather a lot less to do with the plot.  Shirou pulls jeigan duty quite effectively, and Mukumuku is a squirrel so at least has a reason to not be good, but that's about it.  PS1 Suikoden is considerably worse than GBA FE at personality in the secondary or tertiary cast, which is why you'll notice that very nearly every vote besides 'keep all' vote to get rid of basically every one of these characters.  People who played the game are not particularly more likely to know who they are than someone who never played it.

[superaielman]

I haven't voted on the DL in years, and I'd say obscurity is the biggest issue; it just got to the point that I would assume that I couldn't vote on any matches (especially as more and more games I hadn't played got ranked).

You also had (have) an extremely small number of ranked games played. IIRC you started with like three-five games you could vote on and didn't really expand much from there.

[mia~]

You guys really tend to have these topics where you go like, "We'll do x y z!" (See: Djinn's attempt to revamp DL to be more user generated content based) or argue about doing x y z (see: this topic) but nothing really comes of it.

Why don't you try doing something this time, even if you don't like it? You can always revert it after if you change your mind.

[Luther Lansfeld]

I haven't played CC/S2, and at this point my memory of " unplayed DL ranked games" isn't what it used to be. It doesn't help that the one name I did immediately recognize from the CC list was Glenn, who immediately made me wonder if the person who compiled the CC list was out of his mind. Not exactly a good first impression to make.

Changing my abstain votes on those two games to keep for now.

Why, exactly? I think it's fairly clear that some of these people are clogging up the roster, and by keeping them you severely impede with the process. It's obvious that you have no qualms with booting, so yeah.

[superaielman]

I haven't played CC/S2, and at this point my memory of " unplayed DL ranked games" isn't what it used to be. It doesn't help that the one name I did immediately recognize from the CC list was Glenn, who immediately made me wonder if the person who compiled the CC list was out of his mind. Not exactly a good first impression to make.

Changing my abstain votes on those two games to keep for now.

Glenn has a perfect keep record for a reason; that doesn't mean we should keep say Pip (get the fuck out Pip, and take Sprigg with you) in the league.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Yeah... actually... Pip and Sprigg both have potentially interesting mechanics/forms that could be relevant in the DL, but if 63 seasons wasn't enough to prompt someone to figure them out, they obviously don't have the interest necessary to keep them in. Switching my votes there to Boot.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Just looked over my CC/FE/S2 votes and ended up being more decisive. Basically reworked. Noted changes.

Chrono Cross - The very definition of overranked in my opinion.

Doc - Boot. Boring, forgetable, plotless.
Draggy - Keep. Memorable, Non-human.
Funguy - Abstain. Memorable, Non-human, but too obscure.
Irenes - Keep. Memorable, Non-human, has plot, fairly interesting duelist for CC.
Janice - Boot. Non-human, but plotless and forgetable. Only notable dueling worth is the unique weapon, I think?
Korcha - Keep. As much as I hate him, Plot.
Leah - Boot.
Luccia - Boot.
Macha - Boot.
Mel - Boot.
Miki - Keep. Memorable, has fans, some plot, decent duelist.
Mojo - Boot. Memorable, Non-human, early-game. EDIT: But really easy to miss, actually, and no duelling worth.
Nio-Fio - Boot. Non-human... uhh... that's it. Kinda obscure and meh duelist. EDIT: Was an abstain, but just being a plant isn't enough for her.
Orcha - Boot. Boss form is stupid, plotless otherwise.
Orlha - Keep. Guess she has fans, but I don't think she's worth keeping. EDIT: She has more support than I suspected
Pip - Boot. Memorable (infamous at least), Non-human, variable typing makes him kinda interesting. EDIT: Already noted.
Poshul - Keep. Earlygame, Memorable!, Non-human.
Razzly - Keep. Same as above + Lots of plot.
Skelly - Keep. Undeads are so rare in the DL, the white mages need more punching bags.
Sneff - Boot. Go away forever, you worthless, plotless, infuriating, ugly, ....
Sprigg - Boot. Some plot, transforming could be interesting. EDIT: If we had any stats for it after 63 seasons...
Starky - Boot. I just hate him. EDIT: Was an Abstain.
Steena - Boot. Plot, I guess. EDIT: But forgettable and redundant!
Turnip - Boot. Obscure, lategame, useless, but non-human EDIT: Being a plant isn't enough.
Van - Boot.
Zappa - Boot.

Pierre - Keep.
Guile - Keep.
Nikki - Keep.
Glenn - Keep. These four are all splitpath, but far more interesting/memorable than most of the cast of CC.

Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword - Finally! I <3 FE7, but damn it was overranked with identical duelists. NO CHANGES


Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones - FE8 wasn't nearly as bad, but I don't mind getting rid of a few of these guys.

Artur - Boot. Don't need another Lucius
Colm - Keep. Of course.
Cormag - Keep. We don't have that many Dragon Riders if we boot Vaida and Heath.
Duessel - Keep.
Forde - Boot.
Franz - Boot.
Garcia - Boot. We have FE9 Axe-users now.
Gerik - Keep. Memorable enough.
Innes - Keep. Plot.
L'Arachel - Keep!!!!!!!!!!!
Marisa - Boot. Fan-favorite. EDIT: But no plot and redundant with Joshua.
Neimi - Keep. Of course.
Rennac - Boot.
Saleh - Boot.

Suikoden II - Not sure why this is on the chopping block but VP1 is ignored, but I'd be happy to trim both. Seriously though, this game is just as well-loved and popular, and equally overranked.

Amada - Boot
Anita - Boot
Chaco - Keep. Plot, non-human
Freed Yamamoto - Keep.
Gabocha - Boot. EDIT: Don't need them both.
Gengen - Keep. Forced, and I like dogs. EDIT: Even though Gabocha's cuter.
Gijimu - Keep
Karen - Boot
Kinnison - Boot
Koyu - Boot
Long Chan Chan - Boot
Lo Wen - Boot
Millie - Keep, Earlygame and memorable.
Mukumuku - Keep
Rikimaru - Boot
Shin - Boot
Shirou - Keep
Sid - Keep
Simone Verdricci - Boot EDIT: Being decisive!
Tsai - Boot
Wakaba - Boot

[Tide]

Okay, Super wanted my input on this. Not touching the games because a) They're not in the booting border. If that doesn't say enough, I'm not sure what else will and b) I haven't played them myself and I would not want to comment regarding booting something I haven't played since it feels more like catering to my own taste instead of what the community wants. Not to mention I've stopped being a voting regular for sometime now. As for trimming:

Chrono Cross

Doc - Boot
Draggy - Boot
Funguy - Boot
Irenes - Abstain. I don't feel strongly about her one way or another
Janice - Boot
Korcha - Boot. Split path PC that isn't wholly memorable like Glenn? Ew
Leah - Keep. Required recruit, plus she's decent in-game so you're more likely to remember who she is
Luccia - Boot. Pointless.
Macha - Boot. See Korcha.
Mel - Boot. The great thing about her is that you can still miss recruiting her even if you take the correct path.
Miki - Abstain. Don't feel strongly either way.
Mojo - Abstain. I like how he's a VOODOO DOLL. Unfortunately, that's about all I remember about him. So.
Nio-Fio - Boot.
Orcha - Boot
Orlha - Keep.
Pip - Boot. Admittedly, Pip is probably more votable if you consider his other forms like characters from other games have other forms. Still, no.
Poshul - Keep
Razzly - Boot. See Korcha/Macha
Skelly - Abstain. There's two arguments. One being that you get his first bone piece early, so you are likely to remember him just for that. On the other hand, he requires pretty much a game long fetch quest and then he's not super awesome. So...eh.
Sneff - Boot.
Sprigg - Boot. Gimmick that causes headaches and no one remembers, even if she is required.
Starky - Keep. Required, keeps CC diversity I suppose. And is pretty cool.
Steena - Keep.
Turnip - Boot. Wtf.
Van - Boot.
Zappa - Keep.

Pierre - Keep
Guile
Nikki - Abstain on these two. I don't think any of them are memorable except Pierre (although this is largely due to his fail). But having one and not the others is vaguely nonsensical to me.
Glenn - Split path argument, but its Glenn. People know who he is, he has Dragoon background and CC plot (aw yeah). So yeah, he's an exception.

Final Fantasy Tactics
Keep all sans Olan who I push for a boot and Zalbag who I abstain on. Olan is a one stage temp, which is pretty bad. At least even Zalbag has two forms. Zalbag, I dunno. I never considered Blood Suck, but whatever, his PC form is even less memorable. I wouldn't bawl over the two of them getting the punt.

The others all have reasons. FFT bosses are memorable enough largely in their own right. Especially considering Celia, Lede, Balk, Rofel all fight you at least twice. Alma is the reason why Chapter 3 and on exists, and while some of her mechanics are hidden, I don't really have an issue with keeping her in.

Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword

Bartre - Boot
Canas - Keep
Dorcas - Boot
Erk - Boot. Agree with Meeple here. Pent makes him largely redundant. Hey just like in-game!
Fiora - Keep. At least has a championship + stat spread that is different than her sisters.
Hawkeye - Keep. Think him, Louise and Pent all have ATHOS plot or something. So.
Heath - Boot
Isadora - Boot
Legault - Abstain. Legault's cool but I can't justify a Keep here.
Louise - Keep. Pent power.
Lowen - Boot. Who cares.
Nino - Boot. Ew Level split.
Priscilla - Abstain. See Legault.
Rath - Boot. He's the only nomadic trooper could save him. Maybe.
Raven - Keep. He's one of the best PCs in game and is very likely memorable just for that.
Rebecca - Boot
Renault - Boot. RICHARD power doesn't him unfortunately.
Vaida - Boot.
Wil - Boot. See Lowen.


Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones
Artur - Boot
Colm - Keep. Grefter power.
Cormag - Boot
Duessel - Boot
Forde - Abstain
Franz - Abstain
Garcia - Boot
Gerik - Keep. Has some plot, is cool.
Innes - Keep. Plot or something.
L'Arachel - Keep. See Innes
Marisa - Boot
Neimi - Keep. Pairs up with Colm to destroy worlds.
Rennac - Keep. Pairs up with L'Arachel for uh...something
Saleh - Boot

[superaielman]

This topic closes tonight, get your votes in now!

[metroid composite]

I haven't voted on the DL in years, and I'd say obscurity is the biggest issue; it just got to the point that I would assume that I couldn't vote on any matches (especially as more and more games I hadn't played got ranked).

You also had (have) an extremely small number of ranked games played. IIRC you started with like three-five games you could vote on and didn't really expand much from there.

More like 15, I think?  Four or so FFs, VP, Pokemon, Fire Emblem, Suiko 2, Lunar 2, Shadow Hearts, SoA, couple of Wild Arms games, Chrono Trigger, probably a few games I'm forgetting.  (And a bunch more that I've played significantly, but haven't beaten as I was only borrowing or whatever).

Low by this site's standards, no doubt.  But...launching a random week 1...nope; can't vote on anything (even if I add in games that I've played partially but haven't beaten).  Launching into a week 2...nope (although one match if I add in games I've played and haven't finished: Wren vs Kefka).

[Lance]

You guys really tend to have these topics where you go like, "We'll do x y z!" (See: Djinn's attempt to revamp DL to be more user generated content based) or argue about doing x y z (see: this topic) but nothing really comes of it.

Why don't you try doing something this time, even if you don't like it? You can always revert it after if you change your mind.

Because that would require the DL to do something new and different and exciting. We can't have that, now can we?

[Mad Fnorder]

What's that? In the sky? It's.. It's the Boot Alma signal! *descends*

FFT- Boot Alma, keep the rest.

OB- Keep Rashidi, Endora, Destin, Fogel, (a few flag carriers), boot the rest.

Lufia 1- Keep.

Abstain on the rest.

[superaielman]

topic is closed, Elfboy will be posting results shortly!

[Dark Holy Elf]

Results. As with rankings, each character is listed with (number of boot votes) vs. (numbe rof keep votes). 66% threshold was required to boot. All the same disclaimers of the ranking topic apply here. Again, thanks for your participation!

15-6 Mel, Turnip, Van
14-6 Funguy, Neo-Fio
14-7 Janice, Pip, Sprigg
13-7 Doc
12-8 Macha
13-9 Luccia
10-7 Mojo
10-11 Orcha
9-10 Skelly
10-12 Korcha
8-10 Razzly
9-12 Sneff
8-11 Irenes
9-13 Leah, Zappa
6-13 Pierre
6-14 Steena
7-14 Miki
7-15 Draggy, Starky
6-14 Guile
6-15 Poshul
5-14 Nikki
5-15 Orlha
1-21 Glenn

10-13 Olan
9-12 Zalbag
7-16 Alma
6-17 Celia
5-18 Balk
5-19 Rofel
4-21 Izlude
3-20 Lede

16-6 Dorcas
15-6 Vaida
15-7 Wil
14-7 Lowen
16-8 Nino
15-8 Isadora
10-8 Heath
10-10 Bartre
10-12 Renault
9-12 Legault
8-11 Hawkeye, Rath
7-14 Louise
6-13 Rebecca
6-18 Priscilla
4-18 Fiora
4-20 Erk
2-21 Canas, Raven

16-7 Saleh
12-6 Forde
15-8 Garcia
12-9 Marisa
8-9 Franz
10-11 Duessel
8-15 Artur
8-12 Cormag
6-15 Rennac
4-17 Gerik
3-16 Neimi
3-19 Innes
1-22 L'Arachel
1-23 Colm

14-6 Gabocha
12-6 Simone
13-7 Amada, Koyu, Sid
12-8 Gengen, Karen, Kinnison, LC Chan, Rikimaru, Tsai
11-9 Anita, Millie
11-10 Chaco
10-10 Lo Wen
8-12 Shin, Wakaba
7-11 Mukumuku
4-17 Gilimu
3-17 Freed
2-16 Shiro


Kharg: 10-11
Darc: 11-10
Brig: 7-11
Vaynard, Zemeckis: 8-10
Cador: 9-10

Songi: 2-18
Noa, Gala: 2-17
Vahn: 1-18
Lufia1: 3-17
Alis, Myau: 7-9
Odin, Noah: 8-8
ToD: 3-15
Bruiser: 4-13
Reid: 8-12
Farah: 8-11
Meredy, Keele: 9-10
Max: 10-11
VH: 11-9

Fenril, Fogel: 3-18
Debonair: 3-17
Destin, Tristan: 3-16
Rashidi: 4-15
Gares: 6-14
Endora: 5-13
Slust: 6-14
Yushis, Aisha, Rauny: 12-8
Saradin: 13-8
Norn: 14-7

Note from Super: I didn't add Fnorder's vote into anything but the relevant boots (had a chance to be booted.)