Author Topic: New Nyarlathotep's Dungeon Topic, Updated 10/1/14 with new rules  (Read 122565 times)

AndrewRogue

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Preparation, Rules, and Picking a Team
« Reply #150 on: November 14, 2008, 08:39:18 AM »
Ryu1 (3.0), Ness (3.0), Lucian (2.5), Blanca (1.5), Shiho (1.0)

Without examining any of the current floors. *nods*

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Preparation, Rules, and Picking a Team
« Reply #151 on: November 14, 2008, 12:50:54 PM »
As far as the SO3 girls are concerned (w/o factoring in convert damage to MP and MP twinking to the mix) it goes Mirage > Nel/Peppita > Maria > Sophia durability wise if we are looking at HP. Nel and Peppita have similar HP and MP growths though one usually tends to have a bit more HP than MP whereas the other has a bit more MP than HP, I'm always forgetting which one is which >.>

Also Maria *does not* have innate/unique healing. All characters except Nel, Sophia and Adray can only use the spell Healing via the use of Common Support Symbols which is taught from the Decrepit Tome - book item. Apart from spells the only other character to have party healing is Peppita with Healing Dance a battle skill of hers. Sophia also has parasitic healing by setting Blood Scylla to a battle skill as does Albel with Vampiric Flash but those are self affecting only.

In addition relying on Alicia as a reviver = very bad idea.
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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Preparation, Rules, and Picking a Team
« Reply #152 on: November 14, 2008, 02:38:14 PM »
Hmm... Sound enough arguments...

If Maria can't heal, it kind of puts a damper on it... Had hoped for a full healing team. Okay, revising the revised revision then.

Blue (4) (YES I WENT THERE) DAMAGE AND BLUELIKE.
Alicia (2) HEALING AND REVIVAL.
Nel Zelpher (3) HEALING, DAMAGE AND STATUSES.
Rena (1) HEALING, BUFFS, REVIVALLLLL! sadly no damage but you can't have everything
Mia (1) SPELLS, MORE SPELLS AND SUPER BUFFS!

Sticking to the frail theme, but now with more win. Blue's harem just increased. 8D

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Preparation, Rules, and Picking a Team
« Reply #153 on: November 15, 2008, 10:10:33 PM »
Forget when Rena gets her revival but Alicia doesn't get Invoke Feather till L40. Granted it probably doesn't matter since you have BLUE in your team which I somehow managed to miss before >.>
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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Preparation, Rules, and Picking a Team
« Reply #154 on: November 15, 2008, 10:49:07 PM »
... I just realized Rena's revival isn't until level 60.

That's... that's no revival at the first floors, and I seem to remember level 40 being... mid-game for VP2?

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Preparation, Rules, and Picking a Team
« Reply #155 on: November 15, 2008, 10:49:42 PM »
Probably.

Early revival's hard to come by, honestly.

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Preparation, Rules, and Picking a Team
« Reply #156 on: November 15, 2008, 11:05:11 PM »
I'd peg Alicia's as floor 4 or 5 myself.
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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Preparation, Rules, and Picking a Team
« Reply #157 on: November 15, 2008, 11:31:19 PM »
Probably.

Early revival's hard to come by, honestly.

He could take Rosa! It'd require dropping Rena though.

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Preparation, Rules, and Picking a Team
« Reply #158 on: November 15, 2008, 11:44:29 PM »
It's just that Rena's actually got respectable durability, some sort, for a Healer. Guess I ought drop her for Rosa, then, to get that early-game revival for where it's necessary...

It's not like Rosa's durability is terrible.

... is it?

Oh, hers is actually good, but I'd need 3 points for it... so no Nel. Hm...

How high is Nel respect around here? I remember her as being pretty damn good at everything she does but interpretation might change things around. So aiming for at least floor 5 team here.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2008, 11:47:25 PM by Bardiche »

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Preparation, Rules, and Picking a Team
« Reply #159 on: November 15, 2008, 11:52:56 PM »
Personally? I have high Nel respect but my Maria and Peppita respect is higher. In general though Nel seems to have the most respect of any SO3 character around here.
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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Preparation, Rules, and Picking a Team
« Reply #160 on: November 16, 2008, 12:47:20 AM »
I guess this team should be good enough then. Blue brings the offensive, Nel can aid with the offense or Healing, Rena can Heal, Mia can lay magical smackdown... down and Alicia can solo the entire Heal process when needed with her 80% Heal, or otherwise try to trigger off her Nibelung Valesti against enemies.

If I get to Floor 5 I'll be happy enough. Not sure just how high Blue respect is, and whether or not it'll push him as high as that, since the team's offensive could use some work. Not to mention how most of these are either frail or averagely durable, and Revival is gained pretty late? Mia is SO biting the dust somewhere into the dungeon... or at least, until she gets Wind Cane she'll be dead weight. GET IT? DEAD WEIGHT. Ohohohohho. Mia post-Wind Cane rocks, of course, on virtue of beating everyone's speed besides... Nash's? And Nash is a freaking speed demon. Also Flameria damage is pretty sexy MT, especially against people weak to Flame... but that's pretty one-sided. Huh.

Hm, I recall Mia not getting OHKO'd that much in Lunar, though, but I expect the Dungeon will see her OHKO'd a lot... Urgh.

Hmmm... maybe Mime'd work, but would only work really well if he went after Blue to Mime Blue's attacks. It's like having two Blue's! ... but does he beat Alicia, Nel or Rena's speeds?

Oh, screw it. I'd rather have Mime copy Alicia's Healing, Nel's attacks or Rena's buffs (or Blue's attacks <3<3<3) than that I see Mia get OHKO'd on the first round of every dungeon.

REVISION OF THE REVISED REVISION OF THE REVISION

Blue (4) (YES I WENT THERE) DAMAGE AND BLUELIKE.
Alicia (2) HEALING AND REVIVAL.
Nel Zelpher (3) HEALING, DAMAGE AND STATUSES.
Rena (1) HEALING, BUFFS, REVIVALLLLL! sadly no damage but you can't have everything
Mime (1) ALL OF THE ABOVE!

superaielman

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Preparation, Rules, and Picking a Team
« Reply #161 on: November 18, 2008, 05:48:08 AM »
That team is so toast on floor 3. Blue's damage and stats start tailing off at that point, you have no revival and the entire team is right around average speed. Oh yeah, Rena's healing is never full and neither is Nel's as far as I know.  I don't see any way to buff speed or defense to any notable degree (SO2 buffs are ST and not all that good in this format).
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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Preparation, Rules, and Picking a Team
« Reply #162 on: November 18, 2008, 07:27:15 AM »
Nel's healing is absolute garbage for 90% of the game because in the DL we take into account that Nel has use Healing 999 times and thus reaches the 50% MHP mark.  Early game I'm surprised if Healing healed more than 25% HP which is barely better than a Blueberry.

Rena's doesn't get good healing until Fairy Light and that was Mid game at best?  I dunno, I didn't level grind in SO2 until Energy Nede.

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Preparation, Rules, and Picking a Team
« Reply #163 on: November 18, 2008, 09:17:52 AM »
Healing starts at 35%. If you maxed out Healing, it's 85% healing, not 50%...

Rena's healing tends to hover around the same range thoroughout the game depending on how long it was since she gained the last healing spell.
...into the nightfall.

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Preparation, Rules, and Picking a Team
« Reply #164 on: November 18, 2008, 12:23:57 PM »
Does anyone see any problems that my team would run into on the early floors. It's Blue, Relm with Shiva, Shoat, and Phoenix, Zozma, FF1 Monk, and FFT White Mage. I know that most of the team sucks early on, but I know that most of the early floors have difficulty countering Zozma.

Edit: Swapped Priest for Rena.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2008, 03:09:05 AM by dude789 »

superaielman

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Preparation, Rules, and Picking a Team
« Reply #165 on: November 18, 2008, 03:55:10 PM »
Let's see.  Neph, is OverDrive limited to once per floor with Blue?


Team Dude vs. Rufus and Reno- Blue starts off with fairly good damage.
Team dude vs. Shuckle, Fred (S3) and Cecil- Cecil immunes Sharp Pain but can't do much with it.
Team Dude vs. Alice and FFT Priest- Sharp pain does no good, but Vermillon Sands should own at this point.
Team Dude vs. Solt, Peppor, Alenia, Zahhak and Miluda
Team Dude vs. Lundgren, Zalmo1 and Baigan- Interesting. Baigan needs to reflect Lundgren or else Implode gets him.  Priest is probably using Shell on Blue to prevent a OHKO from Lundgren, who.. probably just up and OHKOs Blue, who is really awful even from the start against physicals.  I don't have time for a full breakdown but you should have a good fight, probably winning. Monk having the flexability to either go for Chakra or Counter by the end of the floor lets you play around with strategy a good deal here. You seriously need to take Lundgren out fast, and good luck with that.

Team Dude advantages: Priest/Monk can revive very early, all but Zozma can heal and revive eventually, you have a lot of status and even are packing some MP restoration.  Sharp Pain's good for covering up just how bad Relm is early on.


Team Dude disadvantages:  You're pretty frail overall and your direct damage is lacking. Not much in the way of buffs either.


I love this build personally. It's easy to vote on, should never have a cakewalk one way or the other and you've balanced it well without speed whoring.  You're probably not going to get past floor 7 just due to shitty durablity, but Phoenix really makes things interesting. I'd say use the team and see what happens.  I'd be happy to give advice on which pathsplit to take as well for you (Stay far, far away from the MT floor) or anyone else.
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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Preparation, Rules, and Picking a Team
« Reply #166 on: November 18, 2008, 05:04:33 PM »
Hm, you're right. I do lack something in my team and I cannot quite feel happy about it either. Drop my team for now, until I at least think this through properly and find something that makes me feel more comfortable.

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Preparation, Rules, and Picking a Team
« Reply #167 on: November 18, 2008, 05:25:56 PM »
Super: Yes, Blue is limited to Overdrive just like Timelord.

Also, Bardiche's team does have revival by Floor 2 via Blue with Light Magic, right?

Taishyr

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Preparation, Rules, and Picking a Team
« Reply #168 on: November 18, 2008, 05:47:34 PM »
super, it's FF1 Monk, not FFT Monk.

He doesn't get Chakra/Revive/Counter, unless they did a FFT1 game or something.

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Preparation, Rules, and Picking a Team
« Reply #169 on: November 18, 2008, 06:23:27 PM »
Another for-fun team that I'm considering while still trying to assign the remaining 5 points to the other, more seriously-considered team...

Virginia(WA3, w/Mediums): 4.0
Billy(XG): 3.0
Jane(ACF): 2.0
Jude(WA4): 2.0

(Alternatively, replace Jude with Maria.)

Yes.  Everyone has guns.  So what of it?  Mind, it'll probably explode by the end of Floor 2 anyway.
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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Preparation, Rules, and Picking a Team
« Reply #170 on: November 18, 2008, 08:44:48 PM »

I love this build personally. It's easy to vote on, should never have a cakewalk one way or the other and you've balanced it well without speed whoring.  You're probably not going to get past floor 7 just due to shitty durablity, but Phoenix really makes things interesting. I'd say use the team and see what happens.  I'd be happy to give advice on which pathsplit to take as well for you (Stay far, far away from the MT floor) or anyone else.
You think so? I thought the MT floor would actually be the easier of the two because Zozma really shines. He still has sharp pain and I think that MT glass shield and charm could be brutal. MT glass shield and Psychic prison shut down almost any form of offense.
Edit: Super, Baigain can only use reflect as a counter to magic.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2008, 11:19:09 PM by dude789 »

superaielman

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Preparation, Rules, and Picking a Team
« Reply #171 on: November 18, 2008, 09:58:47 PM »
Hm, you're right. I do lack something in my team and I cannot quite feel happy about it either. Drop my team for now, until I at least think this through properly and find something that makes me feel more comfortable.

Decide what PC and style you want to build the team around, and work from there.  Do you want to go physical based? Magic? How many revivers? Defensive or not? Buffs or not?

If you're building around say Blue, you need PC's who are good in the midgame when Blue starts tailing off and plenty of speedsters. OverDrive lets you autowin once per floor too, MP restoration is highly recommended for smashing the shit out of things with Tower too.

Neph: Yes, but that also ties down his 4.0 Godlike with doing nonfull revival. Forgot that, but still is a massive problem, Blue's never hard to kill. Tai: My fault. Mmm, makes it tougher than. FFT monk would be nice in the duengon for a 1.5~. Does everything just well enough to make it worthwhile.

Dude: PC Glass Shield is near worthless on damage and is countered by one physical. Sharp Pain does nothing for the FFT fight and you have no one else fast enough to really threaten there. Do not take that floor unless you are quick and have good team durability, which you don't. The ST floor punishes you far less for said durability problems. And with your good revival, it'll be awfully hard for you to get knocked out. Charm is a point, but it's also Saga status so good luck with that being reliable.
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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Preparation, Rules, and Picking a Team
« Reply #172 on: November 19, 2008, 02:08:04 AM »
Super: Sharp Pain doing nothing?  I may not be clear on equivalencies, but I don't remember FFT or FF4 having a proper "Stun" status in the style of Saga.  What equipment would prevent that?  Because if so, I might be considering a change in my serious team idea...
<+Nama-EmblemOfFire> ...Have the GhebFE guy and the ostian princess guy collaborate.
 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.

superaielman

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Preparation, Rules, and Picking a Team
« Reply #173 on: November 19, 2008, 02:54:57 AM »
Nama: Hold/Don't act, but yeah. It's just an example, really not the topic for an in depth debate on that. Oh yeah: Short FAQ from me at team building. Built this team entirely on the fly.

Team building: I'm going to use an idea I pushed forward with to show you how to best build duengon teams. You start with any one character you want to be the centerpiece. Always pick characters you know well, and doubly so for the centerpiece. L2 I know backwards and forwards after the stat topic, so it fits for me.

Maxim with spells. He's pretty average on AGI/durablity for most of the game, which is eh. The IPs are nice but are a late payoff/a way to get him out of trouble, we aren't counting on these until he has full MT healing. So what does he have early on?

-ST healing
-Average ST damage, weak MT damage
-Some coinflip status
-Plenty of resources
-Eh Mdef

Lategame, he has

-Some status protection, average durablity
-Full MT healing, IPs of horrible death
-Infinite resources in effect
-Revival
-Still average on stats, very bad late in the duengon.

We want Maxim to get as many turns as possible, as he can MT revive/block all damage with his IPs. I'm going to pick XF's Scared Slayer for this.

Sacred Slayer

-Healing
-Incredible MDef/status protection
-Turn Shift, which lets Maxim/SS trade turns
-Resource issues
-Not much damage

Sacred Slayer's below average but not horrid speed fits perfectly here. She'll go right after Maxim and give him a second turn- meaning he can bust out the MT healing with one attack then revive/attack/smash with IPs with his second. It maximizes Maxim's best traits (Skillset) and covers his weakness (stats).

What's this team missing at this point? Speed, revival, offense, and status in that order. What's the best way to approach this? We could go for a twink build in say buffing, but for the purposes of this I'm going to use a balanced setup. Crono just happens to fit the needs given.

3.5+2.5+2 (3 left)

Crono

-It's Crono, you know he's a speed demon
-Best damage is MT
-Has revival
-Good defense/stats in general
-ST damage is never great
-MP issues

Crono gives a second reviver and plenty of fast MT damage. Sacred Slayer's turn shift works well here too, as Crono's own speed will mean she gets her next turn much faster. Mmm. You're still missing damage at this point, and you have three points left. The team also starts off fairly weakly. Let's go with Crowley, who is strong out of the gate.

Crowley

-Smashes the earlygame, period. His damage is obscene.
-Not slow like most Suiko mages.Will always have offense.
-Shining Wind is Shining Wind, this wins.
-Defense is Suikotastic.

What do we have so far? A defensive team with one speedster. We have 1.5 points left. Juan would be nice but doesn't fit. At this point I think it's best to add some more speed and healing, so let's match our Maxim theme and use:

Tia

-Fast the entire game. She gets a nasty skillset later on, and has good damage. The buffs really help.
-Her IPs aren't as good as Maxim's, but they're effective enough.
-Her durablity is awful and never gets better.

Let's look at the team.

Maxim
Crowley
Crono
Tia
Sacred Slayer

Good: Three revivers around floor 3, four healers, Crono/Tia are fast, no real resource issues, plenty of dangerous limits/buffs.
Bad: Maxim/Tia both start slow, revival takes a bit to get, the centerpiece of the team is a bit slow.  Weak on physical damage as well.

Basically, just build your team around one theme and make it work. Uno's team was one of the best in the duengon and it largely ignored magic for the physical beatdown chain from HELL. Other teams have won with buffing/defensive skills. Build a team that works well together and make sure you know the fighters!

"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
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<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

Taishyr

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Preparation, Rules, and Picking a Team
« Reply #174 on: November 19, 2008, 03:02:42 AM »
I will say that super's method closely resembles the one I use, though I have slight issues remembering some earlygame performances. The team was built around, oddly enough, Crowley. >_>