New Nyarlathotep's Dungeon Topic, Updated 10/1/14 with new rules

[Taishyr]

...Yaridovich... what? >_>

Damnit, I need to play SMRPG again but I swear you guys' levels are far smaller than mine on that one.

Eh, it's why I avoid SMRPG a bit in the Dungeon I think.

[Bardiche]

Please remember, Magic. We're not trying to put you down or whatever, because it's also in our best interest that your team succeeds past Floor 3. Since Blue is a project character, you need to balance him with people who are useful from the get-go, and who have revival to compensate for his suspect durability. Eiko and Garnet are great healers, because they are average and above-average speed respectively, and neither are too terribly frail.

Read over Clear Tranquil's suggestions as well. You definitely need some extra combat in there. Try to make a 7.0 team that works, and just add Blue as an extra character. He's not stellar until Floor 7, so building a support team for him is almost equal to building a team to support a 1.5 or 2.0 for damage. It's not the best of ideas.

You can always hit up super or snow on IRC to talk about dungeon teams, and there's always the dungeon channel where everyone'd be willing to pitch in with suggestions or bounce ideas with.

[Nephrite]

...Yaridovich... what? >_>

Damnit, I need to play SMRPG again but I swear you guys' levels are far smaller than mine on that one.

Eh, it's why I avoid SMRPG a bit in the Dungeon I think.

No, I agree completely, I was usually around 17 or 18 there I think.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

... 17-18 on Yaridovich? O_o I reached 18 at the Axem Rangers...

[dude789]

I'd say that 13-15 is reasonable levels for Yaridovich. 12 is definately a bit low and 18 is way too high. 18 is more Nimbus Land.

[Dark Holy Elf]

When I went through the game to get boss stats I fought almost everything and ended up around 11 at Yaridovich so I have no clue how you people got that much higher. 12 is reasonable, 15 is not. 18 is crazy, that's almost endgame. That's when everyone learns their final spell.

[OblivionKnight]

Man, I always assumed 15 for Yaridovich at least.  Granted, I also see endgame at, like 25 or so >_>

Not that it really changes the PCs much, from what I remember?

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Growths generally go down the crapper past 18, so they don't really matter a ton. I'm more shocked you don't see SMRPG endgame as 30, which is the max level, though. I think L24 was what PD used for his topic?

[OblivionKnight]

Of course I see at at 30...for me >_>

I was thinking 25 for normal people

[Magic Fanatic]

Yeah, I was at least 15-16 at Yarid.  I know I had Geno's Geno Blast at that point, myself, and that's a level 14 spell.

...And on comparison?  I hit 22-24 around the Axem Rangers, I think.  Using Psych Bomb on the Axem Rangers was fun.


EDIT:  And now, for something completely different.  A team I'm actually happy with!

Blue - 4.0
Emily - 3.0
Lilka - 2.0
Bowser (Speed?) - 1.0
Lucia - 1.0 Tear - 1.0

Yes, the usual late-game Blue-Lucia combo is still in effect, but...  Now in the battle for offense, it's...  Bowser (Speed?) and Emily!  That level of offense is kinda sick, really.  Blue spends many a floor just going for the first turn Arcane: Shield, and then doing nothing else (except the occasional PsychoArmor/Grail/StarlightHeal/Tower/Death) with his time until he gets Time Magic.

Depending on how far you see floor 1 in SMRPG, Bowser has either three or four shots of Terrorize.  3 if you take it before/during Bandit's Way, 4 if you let him get up to Mack.  I just made a quick run-through of that far, and those are the numbers I was able to pull up.  That's fun, right?

If things don't die to one Emily attack...  They're either physical immune, or she's not hitting them hard enough.  Lucia has Rage, and Lilka eventually gets MageWeapon (MAYBE HypeWeapon/Armor Down with an E Crest later on), if she opts for that over Quick.  So Emily will start to hit things MUCH harder turn 2.

Floor 2 on, though...  If a target is susceptible to Fear, they will tink for damage.  Yes, even physicals against Blue (Arcane: Shield is fun like that).

The general idea is STILL Realm (forced) - Arcane - Light/Shadow (I'm leaning Light, but...  Eh, they're both a shade of suck right here) - Floor 4 - Floor 5 - Time - Broked.

MUCH better than my previous team ideas, right?

I really wish my sleep schedule didn't have me as asleep/working while most of you are up and paying attention in #DungeonTalk...  And me awake and asking for help while I'm standing in a room of people with sleep schedules resembling non-vampires.

EDIT:  I suppose I'm NOT happy with this team then.  Huh.  So much for this team after talking to super and Sage.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Hm. I have to ask, why Lucia? Her main niches (MP restoration and buffing) honestly won't benefit this team much (Lilka Quicking Emily probably covers offense far better than Lucia's more restrictive, resource-wise, options would for a long time and is available off the bat. Lucia's MP healing doesn't come in early enough for Blue to actually -care- for it when he's alive), and the lack of a second healer/reviver (no, Blue doesn't count as a healer/reviver off -those- stats, and he's the world's biggest lynchpin as is) makes Lilka the world's second biggest lynchpin. Preferrably someone with solid MT healing and revival that doesn't have targetting issues, because that's another gaping wound in your setup. It's a workable setup, but these points need addressing stat. 

[Magic Fanatic]

Lucia is basically still there for late-game near-infinite-Overdrive (since as far as I know, only TimeLord has the once-per-floor Overdrive restriction), but she has other uses too!

1.  Covering holes in status defense.  This will happen eventually.
2.  Boosting damage.  Lucia has Rage and Gale (and Shield, which is admittedly less useful), making Emily (or Lilka for Gale only, if need be) hit harder and more often.
3.  MP recovery.  Yeah, both Bowser and Blue benefit from this.  Bowser more so, since Blue will probably only be using a paltry amount of JP a fight (Arcane: Shield has initiative, and would cost him 1 JP...  Yeah.)  I do have to admit, Bowser's spells ARE expensive, so being able to spam status would be a boon.
4.  Healing.  It...  Actually gets better as she goes along, since it's based on MHP%, and covering higher percentages?
5.  Her buffs.  It has been covered before, but her buffs stack with everyone else's, making things FAR more potent.  Even a possible chance of exploiting a Fire weakness with Emily's physical eventually.

These really are my biggest points for keeping Lucia in there, but I'm open for changing for what's actually necessary.

Also, for Blue...  Yeah, floor 2 through floor 5, he'll just be there to cast Arcane: Shield and other random piddly things.  The Initiative off that making physicals weep a bit (FAQ says it cuts damage by about a third) is all I'd really use him for until floor 6 or 7, when he finally gets the money skills.

...Then again, I'm really starting to think I should've posted this in Brainstorming instead of here.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Lucia is basically still there for late-game near-infinite-Overdrive (since as far as I know, only TimeLord has the once-per-floor Overdrive restriction

The Overdrive restriction applies to Blue as well. Ask Neph about it.

1.  Covering holes in status defense.  This will happen eventually.

Blitzing and status healing is usually a more effective approach to status holes than Lucia's oils, which require her to constantly recast them to boot. You've probably noticed that the Status Symbol Law doesn't get a whole lot of mileage, and there's good reason for it. Status immunities are a neat niche, but there are multiple ways to cover for them, and Lucia is probably one of the least efficient methods for that, especially when you have a lack in other areas.

2.  Boosting damage.  Lucia has Rage and Gale (and Shield, which is admittedly less useful), making Emily (or Lilka for Gale only, if need be) hit harder and more often.

Rage probably won't be terribly useful (crit rate increase isn't a reliable offense booster). If you want to actually boost physical damage, Lilka may well be the better option there, given how Mageweapon and Hypeweapon actually apply to Emily's physical base (even if they're probably worthless anyway), and Quicken > Gale as well. Lilka's offense is just unsalvageable, and she'll be so busy healing with this setup she probably won't use it much anyway.

3.  MP recovery.  Yeah, both Bowser and Blue benefit from this.  Bowser more so, since Blue will probably only be using a paltry amount of JP a fight (Arcane: Shield has initiative, and would cost him 1 JP...  Yeah.)  I do have to admit, Bowser's spells ARE expensive, so being able to spam status would be a boon.

The only spell Bowser is going to ever use (Terrorize) is fairly cheap outside of the first two floors (where Lucia doesn't even have MP healing!). MP healing doesn't give him much mileage at all. Blue has been covered.

4.  Healing.  It...  Actually gets better as she goes along, since it's based on MHP%, and covering higher percentages?

Doesn't target her and is expensive. Using Lucia's oils for healing is impressively inefficient, since she can't even cover full MT. When you -perennially- need multiple healers to cover a single round of MT healing, your survival is in jeopardy.

5.  Her buffs.  It has been covered before, but her buffs stack with everyone else's, making things FAR more potent.  Even a possible chance of exploiting a Fire weakness with Emily's physical eventually.

Your buffs at base aren't too hot, though, and Lucia's oils build at quite a leisurely pace. If you want high-profile stacking action, you need your backup support to not be WA2 buffs (only Quicken is really worth your time there). You're amazingly unlikely to exploit weaknesses in the dungeon to boot. Lucia just seems a pretty poor choice there, your team isn't well-suited for the kind of buffing she synergizes with.

[dude789]

I'd recommend dumping Bowser and Lucia for FFT Monk and a .5. probably either Rand, Priest or Nina 3. This would give you the MP healing you want while also giving you a little more revival. Additionally you could give the Speed? sealstone to Blue which would support the team's offense really well. When Blue eventually gets his speed up from guns you can toss the Speed? sealstone on Rand if you choose him. This would result in a team that is fast, has a decent amount of healing and damage, and also has a few neat tricks they can use if they need to.

[Magic Fanatic]

Lucia is basically still there for late-game near-infinite-Overdrive (since as far as I know, only TimeLord has the once-per-floor Overdrive restriction

The Overdrive restriction applies to Blue as well. Ask Neph about it.

Yeah, I think that needs to be done, since the only thing documented is that Blue's not allowed to go for messing with the Overdrive/StasisRune trick.

2.  Boosting damage.  Lucia has Rage and Gale (and Shield, which is admittedly less useful), making Emily (or Lilka for Gale only, if need be) hit harder and more often.

Rage probably won't be terribly useful (crit rate increase isn't a reliable offense booster). If you want to actually boost physical damage, Lilka may well be the better option there, given how Mageweapon and Hypeweapon actually apply to Emily's physical base (even if they're probably worthless anyway), and Quicken > Gale as well. Lilka's offense is just unsalvageable, and she'll be so busy healing with this setup she probably won't use it much anyway.

Actually, Rage is a 42% (36% if you don't allow Technical Rings) boost to physical ATK power.  Gale is at the same percentages for speed.  They both combine with other buffs, making it a rather...  Ah...  Interestingly powerful experience.  There's a couple of Crit up oils in the skillset, but they're WAY later.

Lilka would only be attacking if a battle required me to use magic to win, though (or she was hitting a weakness!).  Otherwise, yes.  Buffing is more powerful from her.


Still, I'm realizing that the point is that Lucia doesn't quite work as well in this party, so I could always switch her out for Tear.  Lots of healing there, decent stun/damage in Nightmare, other interesting tricks, restores TP with her physical...  Charge, if I ever wanted to bother...  Yeah, I like that idea.  Annoying once she runs into interpretation splits; it'll be worse for her, but...  Until then, it seems viable.

[Monkeyfinger]

In light of recent changes:

Tidus (3.5)
Mew (6.5)
Lucian + Shiho (9)
Rosa (11)

Mew gets the firefly sealstone.

[Yoshiken]

Changing Mint and Nall for Rosa on my team. Early revival and good status > end-battle 1 HP revival and lolMint.

[SageAcrin]

Hilariously, after an hour or so of poking, I have come up with...nearly the exact same team I made before a few years ago.

Oh, but the differences are so very *key*. And it'd be hilarious to see it ride again. Or go down in flames. Either or.

Demi(3.5), Purim(3), Princess Toadstool(3), Brey(1), Rand holding Firefly Sealstone(.5).

Purim is, to my mind, out and out better than Momo was for the team build. Real status. MT healing. MT revival if I'm not crazy(though it takes  years). Lucent frigging Barrier. Oh yes. This is the stuff. Eventually. But, Momo was ST healing and an okay boomstick out of the box too. Not that much better.

Rand that people have to hit complements the team spectacularly, as he's essentially a free turn against ST spammers...and MT spammers, the team was, interestingly, already good at dealing with, though ST status eats him...if it's fatal, otherwise they have to keep beating on him. The revival taking place between battles is no big deal. The only thing he's there for is his game-best durability soaking up a round or so of blows while everyone important lives longer. (ALSO HE HAS COUNTERS!!11!1one)

The team has less damage though. Less. Damage. Than the original revision. An already horribly anemic on damage team, despite the huge amounts of everything else. Admittedly Brey tends to live longer enough of the time to balance that out...maybe. But. I like to think the eventual failure in the team could be solved by more tanking instead of the old blitz-requirement I had before when I was going to remake a team. Am I right? Who knows.

[Hunter Sopko]

Switching out Raquel with Chaz, so...

Rika, Chaz, Sacred Slayer, Claude Kenni (Status Symbol)

[Magic Fanatic]

Team for the trainwreck value, woo!  All characters from my favorite video game series ever, Shadow Hearts!

Yuri 2 - 3.5
Shania - 3.5
Blanka - 1.5
Ricardo - 1.5
Lucia - 1.0 (Resourceless)

Of course, I'd very willingly drop Resourceless if it lets me get a different Synergy bonus or something.

[Taishyr]

...Hm. Interesting team, that (It's Blanca, idly. No electric green muscleman hype for you). My only hesitation is revival is slow to come for non-Yuri people; if you can't get a better bonus from a Synergy or something (unsure, but it is kinda hard to make everyone from one game, you've kept it to SH2/3 which have largely similar systems outside of Stock vs. Combos), you may want to consider the awesome that is Ricardo w/Life. Resourceless is awesome for Lucia, sure - but I wanna say you need the revival more.

Regardless, good offense, at least three people I kneejerk as above average (and Yuri2 wins average tiebreaks due to being from a CTB game/being the "PC" here, and he should be >average until Kurando signs up)... yeah, that's actually pretty cool. Revival's your one thorn but that's usually an issue for SH people.

[DjinnAndTonic]

I can't think of any particularly interesting quirks about the SH battle system that would benefit a Synergy team... They don't revive after battle, do they? I'd think that Magic Combos and such are already available to this team under the "Dual Tech" clause or whatever-you'd-call-it. I suppose handing out Crest Magic for someone like Lucia could be useful and might count as a Synergy bonus... >.>;;

[Taishyr]

Getting Crest Magic would be the main bonus I could think of, yeah. (This could also address the revival issue).

Then again, since the Crest Magic system's kinda different between the two games I'm not sure how well that'd work for "synergy".

[Magic Fanatic]

Well, true...  But they do have incredible amounts of similarity.  In either case, you're equipping the spells you want to use, SH2 just has it in spell bundles with a DCP limit, while in SH3, you're only limited by the spaces on the Stellar Charts and what Stellars you have...  Not that the Stellar Charts can't be altered.  It's fairly cheap, depending on what you want done.

In either case, one is equipping spells, SH3 is just more direct about letting you have the spells you want without overlap.

[Taishyr]

This is true. ...and my brain just thought of a potentially very silly "synergy" gimmick; let both groups combo and gain stock. >_>