New Nyarlathotep's Dungeon Topic, Updated 10/1/14 with new rules

[Bardiche]

Changing my team then.

1. Bardiche | Jerin, Eileen, Lucian & Shiho, Garnet, Nall

to

1. Bardiche | Deis2, Eileen, Lucian & Shiho, Eiko, Nall

Still the MT stone on Lucian.

So much discussion going on here, for a moment I thought this was Brainstorming!

[Taishyr]

See, I'm not the only person who can't figure out which topic is what.

-----

Vaguely toying around with trying to use SPAR.

[Bardiche]

Spar w/ Life.

[Taishyr]

Nah.

A. Yuna, Terra, Aigis, Eiko, Spar (Speed?) is my initial impulse.

EDIT: Mmm. Spar does get lategame Def Up X/Atk Up/Shield... problem is that they're lateish (Floor 5?). Agi/Pwr/Def Down aren't bad but gut says not as good as those three... hm. Also has HUSH from the start, boss accuracy with it is 70% but no clue if that's PC as well.

Regardless, A. Yuna and later Eiko can work to cover that lightning weakness, Terra/Aigis cover offense pretty well (and Eiko/Spar can chip in, with Yuna help endgame).

[Random Consonant]

Team change!

Celes (3.5)
Alys (3.0)
Lucian & Shiho (2.5)
Ayla w/Life Sealstone (2.0)

Let the Kiss hype begin!

[Nephrite]

After some thinking, I'm making a couple more changes:

Orlandu is going back to 4.0. Sorry kids.
FF5 Chemist is being removed, go choose Bartz.
FFT Chemist is going to 2.5.

Ryu3 officially has Masters now. Momo now have Enemy Skills.

Erk has sex-changed into Nino.

Mint is .5 now.

Oh and WA1o Jack is back as 2.5.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Here's a team idea I'm looking at:

Chris Lightfellow (3.0)
Chemist FFT (2.5)
Sharanda (2.0)
Ninja Disgaea (1.5) w/ Firefly


The basic idea is to spoil Magic and Physicals simultaneously. ITE or MT Physicals or Status-inducing physicals are the main problems with the team.

Chris starts Floor 1 with 1 charge of Silent Lake thanks to the new ruling that she starts with the TWR. FFT Chemist can get HP/MP healing on Floor 1, so he can restore Chris' Silent Lake charge every battle if necessary (WHILE SL is active even, go go item healing!). Sharanda gets pseudo-Magic items on Floor 1, so there's no concerns about being unable to hit physical-resistant types while SL is up. Dis Ninja isn't a -great- damage dealer, but he dodges everything, so he gets the Firefly rune. Magic doesn't work, and Ninja laughs at anything that isn't ITE, so my squishy Chemist/Shana shouldn't have trouble staying alive. Chris' physical damage is pretty respectable, but the team could probably use some more. She also gets revival as long as SL isn't up.

So I have an interesting idea here, but I also have 2 points to fill in the gaps. A solid Middle (or a Light + Nall) is what I'm looking for. Right now I'm debating between a generic damage dealer (Claude), a damage dealer with some magic options (Maria), or more revival (Alicia or Nall+somebody).

Suggestions?

[Yoshiken]

What wouldn't be a bad idea in that team, Djinn, is having someone who can get status attached to physicals pretty early. I'm not really sure on quite a lot of dungeon choices, but status can definitely help you through a lot of the fights, especially on those fights that can get in attacks before Chris can SL.

[Glen Veil]

In an exercise of trainwreck and hilarity and upon Hatbot confirming that I should try it I present Glen's Stalling team of *Psyduck*

Cloud(4.0)+ACF Cecilia(2.5)+Lilka(2.0)+Emma(1.5)+Raja(1.0) with Status Symbol Law.

Actually more confident in my previous team, but this one just seemed to lulz worthy to not at least try.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Well... it certainly has a lot of healing.

Although with the right Cloud setup, you coud still blitz things, so it's not the worst stalling team ever.

[Glen Veil]

It mostly came to fruition because I found out ACF Cecilia defensive buffs minus Retaliate are MT, and apparently they cut damage instead of raise defense?  So I thought "Lets put together a bunch of healers with endless resources and people with damage reduction buffs."

What I can up with is what you see there >.>.

Do I expect Protect + Shield + Blessing for over 60% physical reduction hype to actually work? No, not really.

[Nephrite]

By the way:

Body Charge Sealstone Increases the stats of a character by 1.5 times, but increases their point cost by 50%. This cannot be used on anyone above 3.0 cost.

.5s -> 1.0
1.0 -> 1.5
1.5 -> 2.0
2.0 -> 3.0
2.5 -> 3.5
3.0 -> 4.5

Move along, nothing to see here.

[Dhyerwolf]

Oh, hmm, somewhat technical question. If all these stat altering seal stones work directly on stats, you could have some wonky effects depending on how direct games factor stats in. Example: Body Charged MK 2 endgame character's damage would more than double. Body Charged S4 Warlock's damage would...not change at all. Throw that on Jude, and his speed jumps from 137%ish to 300%+. So, I don't know if aspects like this are meant to be taken advantage of, or you wanted a more standardized effect?

[SnowFire]

Yikes.  Yeah, agree with Dhyerwolf.  My suggestion for the Status Symbol Law when it was originally proposed was "-10% damage, -10% accuracy, -10% HP, -10%MP, -10% Defense, -10% Magic Defense, -10% speed" all explicitly applied to the end result, not the underlying stats.  I don't think SSL using -10% to actual base stats rather than the result is too big a deal since it's only 10%, but with 50%, the differences become enormous.  I think that'd definitely work better if it was a flat "+50% (effects)" rather than the underlying stat.  Otherwise voters would have to figure out all sorts of counterintuitive details that depend heavily on the vagaries of the underlying system.

For another notable example, basically any Fire Emblem character with this sealstone is an absurdly brutal killing machine that is likely also a super-tank evade monster.  Dhyerwolf's example is probably the best, though, Jude gets to horribly OHKO everyone out the gate with Assault Buster.  (Jude would still be ridiculous even with only a flat bonus, of course - think he still OHKOs with Assault Buster there, since according to the stat topic a +56% effective speed boost more than doubles his damage.)

[Nephrite]

Hm, that is true. Back to the drawing board on that one.

[Clear Tranquil]

Much sadness ensues =-(

*scraps evil plottin'*

[Dhyerwolf]

Having it apply to end results works. Just say HP, MP, Effective Speed, Damage +50%, Damage taken cut by 33% (Effective result of the defenses+50%. Doubles durability with the HP boost!), and raw evade and accuracy up 50% (Not like raw accuracy usually really needs a 50% boost!).

Hmm, this could still make some characters pretty monsterous (Like...Lyn. She's now fast, seriously pain inducing, durable even to ITE, laughs at things that aren't ITE, and if that crit rate doubles? Ouch) Yeah, I guess this still isn't quite perfect. Maybe just Speed/Base Damage/Defenses and maybe evade?

I should note that SSL should probably be the same since you go on raw stats...WA 2 characters lose 10% durability because lol WA 2 defense stats. CT characters lose a ridiculous amount (at endgame at least) because a 10% difference translates to something ridiculous (Robo losing 10% of his defense might translate to taking like 30% more damage, but comes out to more like 40% with that HP loss).

[Talaysen]

Honestly, I think the mult to stats is more interesting.  The stone should work fine with a lower mult to stats (I'd still use it with like a 1.2x mult, for example).

[Nitori]

KOSMOS
Arc
Sasarai
White Wizard
Marisa

[Yoshiken]

And on that note, I think I'll do my team assessment now as well.

Cielo - He suffers horribly to status, and his skillset is average at best up until F4/5. Seems to be very much a niche pick, and is just too weak/frail when used with SSL, which is the only decent way to make him usable. Honestly, I don't think he's worth the cost at the moment. 3/10, unfortunately.

Juan - Holy crap, SSL must've been made for this guy. Still has brutal offence throughout thanks to being compared to weaker characters, and doesn't have the problem of Waking Rune any more. Still has amazing speed and the power to OHKO some characters for such a low cost. A++, would buy again, etc. 10/10.

Geno - SSL really didn't seem to hurt him at all, and he's damn amazing either way. Geno Boost is one of the best buffs you'll see, and I can imagine Geno being used well with the MT Sealstone because of that and Geno Whirl. Has good offence regardless, and just needs to be placed on a team with decent healers and/or defensive buffs to destroy stuff. 9/10. (Loses a point for durability issues.)

Yukiko - Healer, reviver, damage.. You need it, she's got it. Except buffs and debuffs, but who needs those? Yukiko is pretty much the perfect mage, it seems, and she really proved to be for my team. Spent the first couple of floors helping out with the damage, then switched to healing/reviving come Floor 3, and managed both brilliantly. Would only get better later on with Endure, but still hates the below average speed in the Dungeon. Also dies to FFT/FF9 equips. 7/10.

Rosa - Frail, slow, and an average healer skillset. Nothing special at all, didn't really help me in the slightest outside of 'generic revival'. Early revival is good, but I'm sure there are better choices for the same/a lower cost. 1/10.


Next up: 3-man team or Healer team? Hatbot decides!

[13:20] <Yoshiken> Hatbot: 3-man team or healer team?
[13:20] <+Hatbot> Go for 3-man team, Yoshiken.
[13:21] <Yoshiken> ...
[13:21] <Yoshiken> Screw you, Hatbot. I'm choosing healers.

[Nephrite]

I would argue that you simply never got to take advantage of Rosa's good status spells, which may have increased her value a bit for you.

[OblivionKnight]

Ok Neph, I'll have Margaret tonight.  I assume she'll be the boss of floor 1, right?  And Shadow Yosuke will be the 10th floor boss?

[Yoshiken]

Ok Neph, I'll have Margaret tonight.  I assume she'll be the boss of floor 1, right?  And Shadow Yosuke will be the 10th floor boss?

Damn straight! First turn and no extra damage from weakness!!!1!one!!

[Tide]

Likewise, Neph I am rushing through WA4 again to get Ragu4 stats and am ushering Glen to get Ragu XF stats. I can probably also get Ragu 3 stats. We will see floor RAGUUU!!! right?

PS: I also have random WA4 boss stats up! Can we see them in the dungeon too?

[Glen Veil]

Well, wasn't satisfied with the joke team, so I think I might have come up with a team that manages to be interesting that doesn't fail quite as hard:

Deis2(3.5) + Jack Van Burace(2.5) + ACF Cecilia (2.5) + Eiko(1.5) + Raja(1.0)(Speed?)

Comments/Criticism?