Author Topic: New Nyarlathotep's Dungeon Topic, Updated 10/1/14 with new rules (Read 123999 times)

Dhyerwolf · « **Reply #775 on:** November 15, 2011, 05:17:59 AM »

Okay, trying out a new person or two and potential evil:

Dorothy (3.5)
Body Charged Porom and Palom (3)
Terra (2.5)
Crono (2)

This is of course assuming that Terra does get a downgrade. Few people that I'm tempted to swap in, but most of them are heavily used already. Still thinking it over, but might as well put this in now and tweak later if need be.

DjinnAndTonic · « **Reply #776 on:** November 16, 2011, 06:59:10 AM »

Playing Wild ARMS, also noticing that we need MOAR TEAMS

Cecilia (4.0)
Jack
Rudy
Jane
Emma

VBL Sealstone, of course. Unless of course it's too many points, then maybe just the Synergy bonus if Neph's cool with it.
I just want to use Emma because Blue Mages are awesome.

Hmm.. Alternate team idea? Blue Mage team!

Cloud (w/ materia, like E.Skill!)
Momo (w/ Enemy Skills)
Emma
Strago
Ditto!

(Not even looking at point costs, just posting from my phone on a whim)

Jo'ou Ranbu · « **Reply #777 on:** November 23, 2011, 12:55:01 AM »

Okay, SCIENCE time.

White Rose (2.0)
Billy Lee Black (2.5)
Zerase (3.0) (Resourceless Sealstone)
Alys (3.0)
FFT Priest (0.5)

Just experimenting to see if Zerase translates to a setting and taking an opportunity to spam Billy a bit too. Nothing very synergic, but some people that don't see enough use anymore and a boring staple.

superaielman · « **Reply #778 on:** November 23, 2011, 02:14:23 AM »

Oh man is that team going to *explode* when you hit the wrong fight. It should be fun until that point though.

Jo'ou Ranbu · « **Reply #779 on:** November 23, 2011, 12:52:48 PM »

It's pretty much par for the course with my teams anyway. <_< I'm in mostly for the "fun until the point of boom".

EDIT: Also, if the question of whether Saner stacks with Goddess Call ever becomes relevant, I'll laugh.

dude789 · « **Reply #780 on:** November 23, 2011, 09:23:40 PM »

For those of you who scale Crowley back to early game levels, how many Rune charges would you say he has on floor 1?

Nephrite · « **Reply #781 on:** November 23, 2011, 10:19:30 PM »

According to http://suikosource.com/games/gs1/guides/statgrowth.php he has 14 MAG to start with and gains 4-5 points every level until 20. I want to say levels in Suikoden 1 came pretty fast, so I'd ballpark level 10 being Floor 1, so... 60ish magic... 61 MGC - 4/2/0/0

Random Consonant · « **Reply #782 on:** November 25, 2011, 12:43:39 AM »

Deis2 (4.0)
Lucian/Shiho (3.0)
Terra (2.5)
Marco (1.5) (NeoSpeed)

Trans-turn hype go or something

Glen Veil · « **Reply #783 on:** November 25, 2011, 04:06:47 AM »

Since Emma got knocked down a half point:

Deis1(3.5) + Emma(1.0)(Speed?) + Sharanda(2.0) + Yosuke(2.0) + Red XIII(2.5)

Jo'ou Ranbu · « **Reply #784 on:** December 01, 2011, 01:32:42 AM »

Man, where's the healing?

Dhyerwolf · « **Reply #785 on:** December 01, 2011, 09:24:07 AM »

Red and Sharanda cover that with Materia and Items (And uh...I guess Yosuke and Emma have something in a pinch).

074 · « **Reply #786 on:** December 01, 2011, 01:48:55 PM »

Red only has ST healing as an aside; the only MT he has is Fire. Not sure what Sharanda has, but then again some cases demand you be able to simply blitz anyway...

SnowFire · « **Reply #787 on:** December 01, 2011, 03:25:31 PM »

Actually Red has no healing, just revival and status curing. It's Fire / All / Ice / Lightning / Revive / Heal that's his materia set.

074 · « **Reply #788 on:** December 01, 2011, 05:26:31 PM »

Huh. Thought it was Restore.

...that's even worse.

Clear Tranquil · « **Reply #789 on:** December 01, 2011, 09:33:20 PM »

I don't remember if Sharanda has access to any healing/revive/buff items either or if it's just the attack items of the spell/status types. Even if she does have/get access to all items there is limit there to the amount she can carry/use due to LoD's stock/inventory system. Also it's mainly 50% ST w/th Healing Potions early and the better MT storeboughts don't become available until ... I want to say disc 3?~

Glen Veil · « **Reply #790 on:** December 01, 2011, 09:41:42 PM »

Sharanda and red can both revive, Yosuke can help Sharanda with healing some on the early floors, Emma also technically gets revival and full healing at some point! Honestly though, if the team does make it to floor 4, none of this will matter anyways because Emma will probably be turning every fight into Rocket Tag^tm with Magic Zone in hopes the other four will be able to cleanup with a decently speedy mt magic blitz.

Yeah, I think it's probably pretty obvious I am banking on Deis carrying the team hard for the earlier floors :-(.

Jo'ou Ranbu · « **Reply #791 on:** December 02, 2011, 12:53:51 AM »

Problem is where's the actually -good- healing? LoD healing being percentage-based is a huge problem in the dungeon, and the items are very limited in storage. Not to mention Emma's healing and revival are trashy and expensive and you have -no- MT healing worth anything for a long time and no sustainable MT healing at all. Yosuke would be a poor choice even if he had full healing (by floor 4, Diarama isn't really great, let alone any later). And I won't even start talking about how bad of an idea relying on Poromtastic pdur healers on the dungeon is.

That team's lucky if it makes it past floor 1, let alone floor 4.

Monkeyfinger · « **Reply #792 on:** December 02, 2011, 07:22:45 AM »

thinking this idea over - applying moba thinking to the dungeon because i hate myself:

Raquel (body change) (4.5)
Nina1 (3)
Geno (3)
Nall (0.5)

basically the idea is that raquel with body change is the "hard carry" she gets geno boosts and nina's spells thrown at her and just facefucks everything by herself while screaming about flashing blades and shit. nall insures the support bitches will always be alive to cast a buff/heal at the start of every fight

i liek raquel cuz in addition to DAT DAMAGE she has great statusblockers and a draining move which scales up as her damage gets boosted, both excellent perks for a strat like this

other ideas for a 3 point bruiser:
emily (raw damage can't be beat)
ness (built like a brick shithouse with full healing, great ID, but not much damage and hates status)
zerase (good mt damage unlike the rest of these guys, but resource issues)
ted (idk i hear he's good but i don't know what s4 characters actually do)
ryu1 (status immunity that's easily accessed, solid damage that can't be walled, but wastes his first turn)

i could also use a weaker bruiser from the 2-2.5 range as my body changer (someone like kurando maybe) and upgrade one of my supports to rikku.

thoughts?

Dhyerwolf · « **Reply #793 on:** December 02, 2011, 08:40:07 AM »

Really interesting idea, although running a three person team will make things difficult. Whenever Raquel runs into trouble, your team will generally faceplant (Geno can at least help in some situations there though). Worries are: Evasion, Defense for most of the game, just lots of enemies in general, and Raquel is still slow even with Body Charge. That status protection might be a bit late too, but some of the bit example I can think of where it will matter (Floor 4), evasion helps.

Other choices:
Emily: Doesn't get much from BC, really. Her stats are already really strong such that adding a bit more doesn't help much (And now she'll be before Geno, losing some of the synergy)
Zerase: Very good choice. Speed now hits the sweet spot, physical durability is now 1.2 PC HP, damage gets a nice extra kick. The MT might be kind of sparse though, and that means yeah, ST damage may run out.
Ness: His damage is generally average, so not even good as a bruiser.

Running a 4 person team is difficult, so I would be quite interested in seeing some a 3 man team does.

And Deis should hopefully mean that Floor 1 shouldn't be a problem for Glen. Later ones though...

Yoshiken · « **Reply #794 on:** December 02, 2011, 02:54:10 PM »

Nope, screw it. Body Charge is definitely a more fun approach than Press Turn.

Body Charge Team go~~~
Ephraim (Body Charge) [4.0]
Gilder [1.5]
Jessica [1.0]
Alicia [2.0]
Eiko [1.5]
(Nall [1.0])

Similar approach to Monkey, and one that I wanted to try a while back with Fogel/Ness instead, but I couldn't pass up having Alicia and Gilder on the (status) healing side of things, and Eiko was about the only I was willing to drop down here, and couldn't find any suitable replacements on the lower values.
I also toyed around with running Eph as Seifer instead, which gives me an 2.5 points to play around with, but that pretty much resulted in changing Eiko to one of Aeonless Yuna/Toadstool and then still having 1.0 to put somewhere. I'm pretty content with this as it is, I think.

dude789 · « **Reply #795 on:** December 02, 2011, 04:09:36 PM »

Quote from: Dhyerwolf on December 02, 2011, 08:40:07 AM

Other choices:
Emily: Doesn't get much from BC, really. Her stats are already really strong such that adding a bit more doesn't help much (And now she'll be before Geno, losing some of the synergy)
Zerase: Very good choice. Speed now hits the sweet spot, physical durability is now 1.2 PC HP, damage gets a nice extra kick. The MT might be kind of sparse though, and that means yeah, ST damage may run out.
Ness: His damage is generally average, so not even good as a bruiser.

Emily would be an interesting pick for Body Charge. It puts her damage up to OHKO level and makes her completely ridiculous speedwise, something like doubles average from the get go. Otherwise agreeing with Dhyer, if your going to choose a Body Charge character you want them to be someone who is above average speed after the boost. Although, Nina does have that Initiative speed buff that helps a little. I would worry about Zerase running out of spell charges early and I don't think Ness and Ryu1 pack enough of an offensive punch to be the centerpiece of a Body charge team.

Magic Fanatic · « **Reply #796 on:** December 02, 2011, 05:28:15 PM »

Ness's main draw is that he never dies to straight damage, and has a few debilitating statuses. He's also only slightly below-average speed (and in the dungeon, he's actually above-average until you get Poo), and PSI Flash can be used as a gambit to try to argue out of bad situations. Otherwise, PSI Rockin is actually fairly damaging, and MT to boot.

Dhyerwolf · « **Reply #797 on:** December 03, 2011, 01:50:04 AM »

Ness' speed is pretty averagish before Poo (he ends almost average in game becuase of that large last second level spike). Maybe his damage is better earlier though.

dude789 · « **Reply #798 on:** December 03, 2011, 03:15:08 AM »

I don't know, early on he's competing with Paula when she's at her best for damage.

Magic Fanatic · « **Reply #799 on:** December 03, 2011, 04:59:16 AM »

Quote from: dude789 on December 03, 2011, 03:15:08 AM

I don't know, early on he's competing with Paula when she's at her best for damage.

The reason that competition exists is because Paula's damage is cheaper, but ST (or row-targetting). They float about the same damage level for a while, honestly. Ness also gets what amounts to ST full healing whenever the newest level pops up. Paralysis and Hypnosis Alpha are both early, at that.

Raw numbers? Yeah, Paula's damage is better. When you factor in how elemental resistance is handled, however...

Ness's PSI Rockin' is non-elemental, so it's not affected at all. Paula's PSI Fire and Freeze ARE elemental, and as such... Have great base power, but run HARD into resistance. For example?

PSI Rockin Alpha deals 50 damage on base to, say... A Mighty Bear. This isn't reduced. Paula casts Freeze Alpha, which deals a rather astounding 180 damage on base, but... The Mighty Bear is only "weak" to Freeze, so its damage gets cut to 75% (135). Also keep in mind that Ness keeps a rather handy level advantage above everyone else for quite some time, inflating his damage.

Rockin also destroys shields, so it has an argument for acting as Dispel against Shell or Reflect.

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Author Topic: New Nyarlathotep's Dungeon Topic, Updated 10/1/14 with new rules (Read 123999 times)