New Nyarlathotep's Dungeon Topic, Updated 10/1/14 with new rules

[SnowFire]

Modified version of the team I wanted to run with before.  Feena w/spells is a little tricky to vote on so I have a lot of Final Fantasy balancing things out.

While I think that the "reverse speed" is a more flavorful way of running Speed?, in this case I'd hope that Nephrite runs with "sets to 120% speed turn 1" since FF6 speed is kind of wacky.

Celes (3.0)
Feena (2.5)
Red XIII (2.5)
Strago (1.5) (Speed?) EDIT: NeoSpeed
Ricardo (1.5)

Not really much of a theme this time, except for "characters I think are cool and perhaps underpriced."  And Ricardo, since MP is a bit of a concern for Strago and Red, and none of the other 1.5 picks gelled too well.  To declare in advance, I'll almost surely take [Fire] -> Water -> Earth -> Air for Mana Egg order on Feena.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Because I enjoyed it so much last time, Violent Burst Law team!

Rikku (4.0) - As if common items weren't enough, now I get all the fun Overdrive stuff in a pinch. Speedy status is always a good plan.
Raquel (3.0) - We all know that Raquel + Violent Burst Law is a thing of beauty.
Hilda (2.0) - Speedy, some magic damage in the mix. VBL lets her double-act in a pinch!
Tear (1.0) - Decent healer/buffer with magic damage later and passable physical damage early on. Completely mediocre healbot except with VBL when you get a Once-per-Floor Mystic Arte nuke.
Aerith (1.0) - Just such a good deal with VBL. Seal Evil is a decent early status trick, but really shines with a Once-per-Floor I-win Invincibility button. Can't justify using Aerith without VBL.

Basically Rikku cheese + VBL shenanigans. Not terribly different from my previously VBL team except that it's not relying on the Aika/Cloud lolMagic/CoverPhysical cheese. Curious to see how it goes. Anyone have any better suggestions?

Had I 6 party slots, I'd have traded out Rikku cheese for Tidus and Ricardo, which seems like a more fun, less 'status-or-die' strategy. Eiko might also be an interesting option if I'm allowed to choose when to fire the Trance limit instead of it necessarily happening in the first fight of every floor?

[SnowFire]

Put my team on hold while I think things over.  Looking at the latest topic, I see that Speed? has changed again, and not in a way friendly toward Strago - the "120% flat" is nice for avoiding giant interp splits, but Strago really only cares about being accelerated out turn 1 to Sour Mouth / Big Guard, and then cheats the downside of old Speed? via being average speed past turn 2 anyway.  Furthermore the 95% speed makes characters like Celes and Ricardo - who both would be a bit above average speed otherwise* - now crucially on the wrong side of the great average speed barrier.  (*As a reminder on Celes, she's 34 Speed vs. a 33 average with no equipment, which isn't a huge deal until later.  And usual provisos about Meeple's with-equips-average which has 2 Sneak Rings for both Locke and Gogo where Celes is a tad below average.)

Also, Neph, be sure to edit the opening post too, it still has classic Speed? there.  ("The effective speed of one character is reversed (60% becomes 140%), but after the first round of combat, their speed returns to default and can not be increased in any way.")

Probably a topic more for the Brainstorming topic, but neoneoSpeed? seems to favor sticking on characters like Raquel, as they actually stay fast rather than getting just one turn to do something evil.

[Dhyerwolf]

I do admit, if you are throwing a character out to 120% flat turn 1, kind of a high level to keep them at.

[Nephrite]

Put my team on hold while I think things over.  Looking at the latest topic, I see that Speed? has changed again, and not in a way friendly toward Strago - the "120% flat" is nice for avoiding giant interp splits, but Strago really only cares about being accelerated out turn 1 to Sour Mouth / Big Guard, and then cheats the downside of old Speed? via being average speed past turn 2 anyway.  Furthermore the 95% speed makes characters like Celes and Ricardo - who both would be a bit above average speed otherwise* - now crucially on the wrong side of the great average speed barrier.  (*As a reminder on Celes, she's 34 Speed vs. a 33 average with no equipment, which isn't a huge deal until later.  And usual provisos about Meeple's with-equips-average which has 2 Sneak Rings for both Locke and Gogo where Celes is a tad below average.)

Also, Neph, be sure to edit the opening post too, it still has classic Speed? there.  ("The effective speed of one character is reversed (60% becomes 140%), but after the first round of combat, their speed returns to default and can not be increased in any way.")

Probably a topic more for the Brainstorming topic, but neoneoSpeed? seems to favor sticking on characters like Raquel, as they actually stay fast rather than getting just one turn to do something evil.

I would see Speed? as keeping Strago as 120% average speed, regardless of whatever stupid nonsense FF6 does.

[SnowFire]

With neoSpeed?, certainly, because it says so outright.  I was talking about old Speed?, whose downside was "returns speed to default, can't be increased in any way."  Since Strago's default speed post-turn 1 is average, that's an irrelevant downside.

I suppose I should be more clear: neoSpeed? doesn't hose Strago, the new downside hoses the rest of my team when the old downside was irrelevant.  (Which is fine!)  And Strago doesn't get as much use out of staying fast.

[Nephrite]

Got it!

[SnowFire]

Team edited, I'll use NeoSpeed instead.  The way NeoSpeed works now - with a speed boost out of the gate - should work nicely, even if Strago's turn 1 isn't quite as fast as it is under Speed?.  Don't think there's much help in Strago getting continually faster if he survives, but at least I miss out on the new downside of Speed?.

[Glen Veil]

Reposting team with a change or two:

Souji
WAo Jack
ACF Cecilia(NeoSpeed)
Eiko
Ditto(quickpowder)

[superaielman]

Note to team makers: two revivers is pretty crucial! I threw this team together with characters who haven't really been used much,and didn't pick a second reviver. Hawk probably could have safely been subbed for one, since I have enough ST physical smash.

Edit: team thoughts, since I'm dead this round.

Edgar- Dominating for the first four floors, then absolute dead weight. Needs some kind of large floor 8 bonus to justify his cost.
Zemeckis/Hydra- Good pickup. They're not speedy and both are pretty 1-D, but you get two competent slugging PC's for two points and one slot.
Kyra- Ugh. I really, really felt the lack of revival from her. A healer with no revival or no MT healing is very limited in the dungeon. The buffs were neat, but I was underwhelmed. She may have been trying to do too much with the build.
Hawk- Solid enough. You know what you're getting- good enough damage and some late payoffs with the debuff skills.
Maxim- Good value.  He's useful for the awesome, awesome MT healing and revival, and has a nifty skillset. Stats are pretty unremarkable, but the Lufia 2 magic skillset is nice.

The obvious flaws in the team were lack of revival, speed (EVERYONE was around average, this does not work in the dungeon) and Edgar being so painfully bad later on. I didn't have any real MT damage to speak of, either.

[OblivionKnight]

Sure, why not - been a while since I submitted and participated.  Let's do it!

Let's try an all-female team again:

Rikku (4)
Purim (3)
Kyra (2)
Yukiko (1.5)
Rena (0.5)

Screw sealstones - can I use Laggy-based game characters???

[Nephrite]

That depends on which one you want.

[superaielman]

Cristo, Angelo, Solo, Alena, Brey, Nall- Status symbol law 

Edit: Nall cosplaying Healie.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Had I 6 party slots, I'd have traded out Rikku cheese for Tidus and Ricardo, which seems like a more fun, less 'status-or-die' strategy. Eiko might also be an interesting option if I'm allowed to choose when to fire the Trance limit instead of it necessarily happening in the first fight of every floor?

There is a question in there, so I'm repeating myself to see if someone can figure out what the answer is~

[Nephrite]

I'll make an executive decision and say you can use Trance whenever because that was seriously the dumbest shit in the universe.

[Yoshiken]

Thoughts on team 'stache, since it's looking like I'm out on this floor.

Athos: Haha. Athos alone is ridiculous. The number of interp calls he gets in his favour is just nuts, and he's constantly awesome. Definitely worth the points, although somewhat redundant on this team because...
Bartz: Haha. Bartz is ridiculous. Can single-handedly destroy floors early on, and is a typical project character in that he gets much better as he goes on. Definitely worth the points.
Alakazam: Haha. Alakazam is-- yeah, okay, you get the point. Alakazam is Athos, but status-bait and without healing. If you can't afford Athos, take 'Zam.
Adray: Honestly, I didn't expect much from Adray. He's apparently slow, not amazingly good at any one thing, just seemed like he was too average overall except below-average in possibly the most relevant stat. As it goes, being slow was sometimes a really good thing on a (status) healer and he apparently had more tricks than I realised. Hm.
Moulder: Honestly? Complete non-entity past about Floor 3, where it was "Well, he heals." Once Bartz took Red Mage/Chemist, there was absolutely no reason for me to care about Moulder, since everyone else had healing anyway.

Team was, overall, pretty good, for all that I barely knew the characters. If I were to take it away from the 'Stache now, meaning dropping a point somewhere but adding a Sealstone, I'd probably look at cutting either Alakazam or Athos for some more physical smaaaash (Athos for Ephraim, maybe) and probably throw Life on Moulder so that I actually have some revival early on.


Edit:
Alrighty, so now that that's done with, time to look at my next team plan!
Neph, did you consider the idea of moving Body Charge around? The idea I had was to switch it between Ness/Eiko, so I'd assume it's on Ness as far as the points go, since he's the more expensive of the two.
On that note, Body Charge Ness would have disgusting durability, and is pretty much the entire reason I wanted to make this team.
Past that, I'm considering looking at an all-Pokemon team, although I'm curious what Sealstone bonus they'd get... ;)

[Nephrite]

I would say if you give your team enough extra points that it can go onto Ness then you can move it around.

I should also say I'm probably going to change Body Charge in some way before the next time someone gets in... I want to see how it works as it is now.

[Yoshiken]

d'awwwww
Ruins my insane durability plans with Ness, I assume.
(He'd still be status-bait! It's not like I was gonna stick him with a bunch of status healers, honest!)

[Nephrite]

It will still be very similar in its effects.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Heh, was looking at the Synergy bonus stuff and curious if there's any series-inclusive Synergy bonuses that could be allowed?

Like... I was thinking of a Wild Arms mains team: Rudy, Virginia, and Jude are already available, but could I get DL-legal Ashley and Clarissa to round that team out? (WA5 doesn't exist, too much skillset headache, also Dean is at best a Virginia clone with full Medium choice, a Jude clone with one Medium, or a sub-DQ1Hero warm body at worst.)

Virginia (4)
Jude (1.5)
Rudy (1.5)
Ashley (probably a 1.5 since he's essentially Rudy?)
Clarissa (whatever's left of my points... 3.5? That seems high, maybe I can get some Force Carrots/Healberries so that my Mystic-ers will be awesome?)

I guess it's basically a Virginia-reliant team with a good mix of speed/durability/damage/statusblockers. The addition of WA Mystic-able items would probably be necessary for this team to get past the earlier floors though... Otherwise, I have only one healer ;_;
I suppose a Clarissa-as-SacredSlayer could also work to help the healing situation.

Seems like a fun, though inferior idea. Any suggestions?

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Eeeeeeeeew Jude in the dungeon whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

[SnowFire]

Jude is twinkable enough, though maybe not with that team.  Obviously he's best buds with Tidus and a few other people who can boost his speed, but yeah, kind of a slow start waiting for Assault Buster and needs to steal Yulie's FP Advantage to really get mystic hype going.  Also, since modern Firefly doesn't hose Defend, he's a passable enough Firefly choice - FF1 Knight is a more generally tanky and a safer choice, but Jude can Defend if he fears magic, and gets random cute tricks in exchange.

Clarissa is made of broke in the dungeon because of Encourage.  She doesn't need Sacred Slayer, she just spams that constantly and makes your team triple-turn everything.  Then when fighting any kind of solo boss she spams Rob Turn and trivializes them.  I'm not sure there's any price that's fair for her, but I'd be willing to pay quite a lot for her - a 5.0 pick or thereabouts.  That said, she's not at her finest in a team without healing, as you'd have to blitz everything, and Encourage spam only works if you have somebody ready with MT healing to top the team up as they outslug from turn advantage.

It might break the theme a little, but you can pretend that the real main character of WA1 was one of the talking ones and pick ACF Cecilia to get some healing?  Alternatively, ask for Dean w/ a healing rune or whatever WA5 used for customization?

[DjinnAndTonic]

Hmm... I didn't think Clarissa was -that- broken. Trivializing solo bosses isn't a Clarissa-only thing, and her main draw is the speed-boosting (which works really well with Jude, Snow!)

That said, switching Ashley for Lilka would probably be a decent solution to the lack of healing. And I kind of wanted to try Rudy in the Dungeon since I've never seen a team that uses him. He has Cover or something, right? That's got to be some kind of useful niche?

[superaielman]

A: Rob turn doesn't work on most bosses. B: Encourage is cool, but it just speeds up your turn and doesn't hit the entire party. Clarissa has use in the dungeon (Sacrifice!) but she does not feel even close to that overpowered.

[DjinnAndTonic]

In the Dungeon, Encourage would probably be considered hitting the whole party, though. (Well, sans Clarissa of course.) I mean, it -does- hit six spaces, which is more than enough for a full Dungeon Team and location isn't generally considered outside of "melee" or "ranged". Not hitting Clarissa -is- a pretty big drawback though.

Well, I'll leave it to Neph's judgment, but I'll propose this team:

Virginia (4)
Lilka (2)
Rudy (1.5)
Jude (1.5)
Clarissa (3?)

And hope for Healberry/Forcecarrots as a Synergy bonus. ...and that's still a pretty weak team, but at least it has potential and speed!

I call it 'Team What Do You Mean Lilka's Not the Main Character?'