New Nyarlathotep's Dungeon Topic, Updated 10/1/14 with new rules

[Nephrite]

I guess it's assumed Beowulf has been sharked in and starts picking up JP immediately at Level 1, which is fine but not completely true to in-game.

This is more or less it in a nutshell, basically it's how Orlandu works too. I fear for how terrible Beo's status might actually be that early on, although I guess it doesn't make a huge difference.

[Dark Holy Elf]

It wouldn't be any worse actually; stats (besides Faith which doesn't change as the game goes on) have a near-meaningless effect on status accuracy.

[Nephrite]

Well okay then!

[DjinnAndTonic]

I like Ivan, but if none of the other Dungeon voters know him, it doesn't bother me to see him go. One of the main reasons I thought he'd be good was because he's one of the better candidates for the Elemental Sealstone. Without lots of options, it's hard to find a viable team that capitalizes on elements like that.

I also disapprove of changes that make Violent Burst Law worse.

Also, I think with all of the rule changes, I might need to redo my team...

[Magic Fanatic]

Love Love - Damage is increased by 50% against same-sex targets and reduced by 50% against different-sex targets. This applies only to the allied team. (No longer affects enemies, make an all female team today!!!)

More sideways, but still present with the same problems.  Would it be too broken to suggest that members of the team deal 50% more damage to same-sex targets and take 50% less from different-sex targets?

Life - One character's healing effects now also allows for revival, but reduces the final effect of any healing to 75%. (This means full healing is always 75%) The healing also only revives characters with 1 HP. The healing received from spells that hit more than one target may be used as revival once per battle. This Sealstone may only be placed on characters with healing spells or abilities. (You can't put it on people without healing abilities)

I'm not sure if it got a ruling, but what about healing abilities that are forced MT, but only one person on the team is dead at the time.  Would that consume its MT use?

[Nephrite]

Love Love - Damage is increased by 50% against same-sex targets and reduced by 50% against different-sex targets. This applies only to the allied team. (No longer affects enemies, make an all female team today!!!)

More sideways, but still present with the same problems.  Would it be too broken to suggest that members of the team deal 50% more damage to same-sex targets and take 50% less from different-sex targets?

I'm not sure how that's much different except there are no downsides to it with your interpretation...

Life - One character's healing effects now also allows for revival, but reduces the final effect of any healing to 75%. (This means full healing is always 75%) The healing also only revives characters with 1 HP. The healing received from spells that hit more than one target may be used as revival once per battle. This Sealstone may only be placed on characters with healing spells or abilities. (You can't put it on people without healing abilities)

I'm not sure if it got a ruling, but what about healing abilities that are forced MT, but only one person on the team is dead at the time.  Would that consume its MT use?

That is a very niche scenario... I'd probably say it doesn't, but that seems like a very specific scenario that would only come up probably never.

[Talaysen]

That is a very niche scenario... I'd probably say it doesn't, but that seems like a very specific scenario that would only come up probably never.

I wouldn't say that's rare at all, really.

[ThePiggyman]

That is a very niche scenario... I'd probably say it doesn't, but that seems like a very specific scenario that would only come up probably never.

I wouldn't say that's rare at all, really.

Yeah, I think it actually happens fairly often. Maybe not on earlier floors, but when you reach floors with bosses that have solid MT, teams sometimes have to choose between going for revival or healing up the rest of the team. I mean, it might not happen very much as is, but if the team in question had the Life sealstone, they would go for the MT healing every time, I'd say.

Off the top of my head, the MT Floor 3, and both versions of Floor 6 have a fair of MT damage going around, and I could for sure see a team using an MT healing spell to do double-duty in these situations.

[Nephrite]

Then I will say if you can convince people that only one person is dead, a MT healing spell would bring that one person back with 1 HP and not consume the "MT revival" clause.

[Nephrite]

I have made all the point reduction changes. I have not removed anyone.

[Yoshiken]

Since the last team's gone, just confirming TEAM NULSHOCK~

Yuna [3.0] (NeoSpeed Sealstone)
Demi [3.5]
Yosuke [2.0]
Teddie [1.5]
Yukari [1.0]

[DjinnAndTonic]

New team! I call it "Team I Threw Together While Waiting In Line".

Scarecrow (2.5)
Aika (2.5)
Robo (1.0)
Cray (1.0)
Citan (2.5)
Nall (1.0)

See if you can guess the theme~

Will take suggestions on team choice and sealstone if anyone has any ideas.

[Nephrite]

^^^ Characters Djinn wants to go on dates with.

I am adding Mei-Ling from Saga Frontier and I am removing Blue.


Mei-Ling, Saga Frontier (2.5)

Pros: Starts with Light Magic, guns and several other techniques. Fast character who can dish out damage and heal/revive.
Cons: Glass cannon, thy name be Mei-Ling. Doesn't take hits well and the healing is kind of terrible.


I'm also adding:

Nelis, Suikoden 5 (1.5)

Pros: Relatively durable for a Suikoden magic-user. Gets a lot of spells rather quickly.
Cons: Easily walled element (Fire). Damage and speed are a little bit lower than other Suiko-mages.


I've been considering adding other folks from things like Grandia 3 but allowing more flexability with their builds but that might be worth more trouble than it's worth.

[dude789]

Neph, have you given any further thought on adding T260G?

[Nephrite]

Oh shoot I totally forgot. Yeah, let me do that and come up with a guideline post.

[Nephrite]

Also moving Eileen to 2.5.

[Dark Holy Elf]

^^^ Characters Djinn wants to go on dates with.

I am adding Mei-Ling from Saga Frontier and I am removing Blue.


Mei-Ling, Saga Frontier (2.5)

Pros: Starts with Light Magic, guns and several other techniques. Fast character who can dish out damage and heal/revive.
Cons: Glass cannon, thy name be Mei-Ling. Doesn't take hits well and the healing is kind of terrible.

Mei-ling's durability spread ranges from 81% to 91% average, so "glass cannon" may be going a bit far there. On the other hand she's a bit of a slow starter stat-wise (I believe her HP starts below 100) so this is probably more true early! 2.5 is probably fine though. LightSword's 35+ % chance of parrying physicals aimed at the party is a neat lategame pickup.

Nelis, Suikoden 5 (1.5)

Pros: Relatively durable for a Suikoden magic-user. Gets a lot of spells rather quickly.
Cons: Easily walled element (Fire). Damage and speed are a little bit lower than other Suiko-mages.

I'm not sure who the point of comparison is here, but Nelis' speed is pretty good (same as Zerase). She's pretty much better in every way statistically than Crowley (outside his ST damage win on the first floor or two) but without the versatility and with a more wallable element. She might be a bit abusable at 1.5... that's a hell of a lot of MT damage off above average speed for that score. It really depends how big a drawback being fire-reliant is in the dungeon.

I've been considering adding other folks from things like Grandia 3 but allowing more flexability with their builds but that might be worth more trouble than it's worth.

Do it, the dungeon doesn't have nearly enough plane crashes.

[Nephrite]

I'm not sure who the point of comparison is here, but Nelis' speed is pretty good (same as Zerase). She's pretty much better in every way statistically than Crowley (outside his ST damage win on the first floor or two) but without the versatility and with a more wallable element. She might be a bit abusable at 1.5... that's a hell of a lot of MT damage off above average speed for that score. It really depends how big a drawback being fire-reliant is in the dungeon.

I'll put her at 2.5 to start then, do you think that would work better?

[Dark Holy Elf]

Maybe! You should probably let someone with a better familiarity for the floors and what does/doesn't work make that call.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

I personally think that Nelis at 1.5 is -insanely- abusable and I should've given her a base score to work with. I think 2.5 works for her, although I now have to wonder what does Geddoe do that she doesn't do almost as well -at least- (no OHKO damage, but she more or less almost always 2HKO off MT damage she has a lot of charges of, and her MT damage has comparable speed to his OHKO, and she has more charges and more MT... I can't help but think he could go down a bit with the comparison, even though he has more durability). Oh well.

EDIT: No matter what, good MT damage off speed that doesn't suck is always insanely valuable in the dungeon, and Nelis more or less fills the niche from the get-go. Not to mention she has very good magical durability and her physical durability isn't a liability. She has no truly easily exploitable stat failings in the Dungeon - even with the easily walled element, that's worth a lot of points, especially considering the source of damage (magical damage >>>> physical in the dungeon).

[Nephrite]

I would be fine with moving Geddoe to 2.5.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

I think it works. Geddoe's MT damage is faster and he's more durable and he has a OHKO option that doesn't fly for Nelis outside of a single floor window at most, but more wallable element (SOMEHOW) and less resources. It balances, since floor 3-5 are basically places where Geddoe just fucking OHKOs shit because Thunder Storm off an A+ at C3 is just sick.

[Yoshiken]

Removing Blue? Man, I was totally planning to prove CK wrong when he said that every Blue team would be beaten before it got anywhere, though.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Removing Blue? Man, I was totally planning to prove CK wrong when he said that every Blue team would be beaten before it got anywhere, though.

ha-ha </Nelson>

Seriously, I'd give cookies to anyone who actually -managed- to do it.

[Nephrite]

Here are a couple more ideas:

Orlandu to 3.5 (He's good, but... eh, I dunno if he has the same punch as the other 4.0s anymore)
FF5 Blue Mage to 3.0 (No one uses him)
Mew to 2.5 (^^^)
Serge to 2.5 (^^^)
Angelo to 2.0
Amarant to 1.5