New Nyarlathotep's Dungeon Topic, Updated 10/1/14 with new rules

[Nephrite]

Also, here's a (tentative) post on how T260 will work.

Will have forms 2-6 available for floors 1-6, then Form 7 available on... floor 7. Amazing.

NEB provided me with a list of difficulty rates for the various skills, I will interpret them as based on floor. If you have a certain body on the floor where the difficulty matches, you will get those skills.

For example:


CombatMastery
TYPE 1 | 13 (Floor 1)
TYPE 3 | 21 (Floor 3)
TYPE 6 | 22 (Floor 3)
TYPE 8 | 24 (Floor 4, but irrelevant because it's body type 8)

This isn't a great example because you're always going to have T260 as Type 1 for Floor 1, but you'll always get CombatMastery there.

[SnowFire]

FF5 Blue Mage already is a 3.0....

Mew, the main asterisk there is that I'd recommend requiring teams using Mew must list the 4 skills he has as part of going to the next floor, and clear that these skills are TM-able by that floor.  Voting / research headache if Mew just has some suggested slots, but can theoretically have others.

Serge I'd just say kill.  Yuck CC in the dungeon.

Angelo at 2.0 works I think.  Amarant is probably safe at 1.5.

As another comment...  this is probably "working as intended," but Ditto w/ Quick Powder is a very strong 0.5.  He's shown up a lot of teams and has turned more matches than usual for a 0.5.  Granted, Ditto is an *interesting* 0.5, and having a character who isn't relevant until turn 2 matter in the dungeon is certainly cool.  Just for 0.5 points, teams that can survive round 1 have a lot more flexibility in round 2, including stealing great enemy skills.  Don't think he'd be a great 1.0, and denying Quick Powder would just make him go back to being utterly terrible, but just throwing that out there.

[Nephrite]

I meant 2.5 for Blue Mage.

Also, here's a link to T260's stuff. http://rpgdl.com/wiki/index.php/Robot_Stuff


As for Ditto, I might force him to use the Metal Powder instead. I dunno.

[Dark Holy Elf]

I don't think I agree with a difficulty 13 skill being floor 1, but it doesn't matter because CombatMastery is useless before you get PluralSlash/ShockSoldier/Popknight anyway!

[DjinnAndTonic]

I don't see what's wrong with CC in the Dungeon?

[Nephrite]

Oh, yeah, T260 is in at a 4.0.

[ThePiggyman]

As for Ditto, I might force him to use the Metal Powder instead. I dunno.

Forcing the Metal Powder on Ditto will probably really make him a 0.5, since he's likely giving up TWO turns without the Quick Powder. It's very likely that the majority of enemy teams act before Ditto even gets to Transform if he has the Metal Powder.

As a 1.0, I think Ditto with Quick Powder would still be a viable option. He's not an instant gimme anymore, but he's shown in the Dungeon that he can be worth a full point.

[Glen Veil]

So, in the name of teams with totally dumb strats to come up with, I present:

Souji + Ginny + ACF Ceci(Neospeed) + Ditto + FFT PRIEST

The dumb strat I'm planing?  Ginny uses VALIANT on Souji who uses MT PHYSICALS THAT HURT HIMSELF TO BOOST VALIANT DAMAGE, and then ACF Ceci command Replays Souji SO HE DOES IT AGAIN and HURTS HIMSELF SOME MORE FOR MORE DEEPS, meanwhile I have ditto and priest flail about for lulz, clearly this plan can't go wrong.

Slightly more serious strats include having potentially 3 people that can flat out wall some fights, Ginny and to a lesser extent Souji and Ditto can all be evade whores which ACF Cecilia can boost to levels of trolol because she starts with a mt 50% boost to evade buff, alternatively there is acf Cecilia spitting on mage floors with starting mt reflect.

So yeah, team of whorish whores plus priest or something.

[Nephrite]

As for Ditto, I might force him to use the Metal Powder instead. I dunno.

Forcing the Metal Powder on Ditto will probably really make him a 0.5, since he's likely giving up TWO turns without the Quick Powder. It's very likely that the majority of enemy teams act before Ditto even gets to Transform if he has the Metal Powder.

As a 1.0, I think Ditto with Quick Powder would still be a viable option. He's not an instant gimme anymore, but he's shown in the Dungeon that he can be worth a full point.

It's a possibility.

[SnowFire]

Djinn: Okay being slightly unfair there.  It's mostly CC bosses that are giant headaches in the dungeon which is why they're never used.  Serge & Riddel are better, just there's still some weirdness with how they spend their turns, does having better vitality regen = better speed, etc.  I'd probably force all CC characters to be average speed and spend every turn with combo->element, and not get any faster for skipping the element, but it can go a number of ways.

That said Serge is probably safe to drop to 2.5 unless he has some really broken element I'm forgetting.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

I don't see what's wrong with CC in the Dungeon?

Actually, CC PCs just aren't amazing as a dungeon pick. The resource replenishment is kinda cool, but the game's system just doesn't do them favors when it comes to Dungeoning in general. I didn't even know Serge was a dungeon pick, though! <__________<

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

I'm at work during a slow day and I'm bored out of my mind, so naturally I'm dating pigeons making Dungeon teams.

Team "Wait Firefly isn't awesome again anymore"

T260G (4.0), Nelis (2.5), Lucian and Shiho (3.0), Yukari (1.5) [Body Charge on Yukari]
Modus operandi: T2 tanks the hell out of shit first turn while Nelis and Yukari try to kill everything with MT as long as they don't get elementally walled/instaowned. Lucian and Shiho provide ST offense and more healing/buffs. Having only one truly reliable healer is going to suck and this team probably can't deal with very prolonged slogs, but oh well. Also, Crono owns my ass so bad.

Team "March of the Supervillainesses"

Miakis (4.0), Mei-ling (2.5), Hildagarde Valentine (3.0), Mint (0.5), Aeris (1.0) [Body Charge Sealstone on Hilda]

No real rhyme or reason other than having girls and Mei-ling (alternatively, call it team "Mei-ling's Koorong Prostitution Ring" and wince). EDIT: It just hit me that Body Charge Hilda is actually kind of a goodish idea, though.

[Nephrite]

In addition to the earlier suggestions, I have a few more.

Demi to 3.0 (Hasn't been used in a while, but I think she's not as good at 3.5)
Ryu2 to 3.0 (^^^)
Toadstool to 2.5 (She's good, but... ehh.)
Nina2 to 1.5
Ronfar to 1.0
Ditto to 1.0, always gets Quick Powder (I think he's too good for .5 but not an amazing 1.0? A Raja problem.)
Speaking of Raja, I'll drop him back to 1.0 but ask people not to use Speed? on him

Oh, any opinion on changing Gastly to Gengar and bumping him up a tier or two?

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Ronfar needs to go to 0.5. Strictly worse healer than Jessica? >_>

[Nephrite]

That is certainly doable as well.

[dude789]

Ronfar needs to go to 0.5. Strictly worse healer than Jessica? >_>

He's slower, but his MT healing is much better than Jessica's. His is something like 60-70% maybe even higher while hers is something like 30-40%. He also gets revival much earlier than she does and he gets MT status healing. As for the other changes, I'm not a fan of the Toadstool change. I think she's fine as a 3.0, she has some of the cheapest healing in the dungeon and a really good shutdown status option as well. I also think Nina2 is fine as a 2.0. 

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Ronfar's MT status healing is floor 7 and being both slower and frailer are just too damning. I could argue both are too high at anything above a 0.5 myself, but Jessica has a case for a 1.0 (some durability tricks like regen equips and the sleep option aren't much, but are helpful). Ronfar? Hell, he's a worse healer than -Mint-.

[Dark Holy Elf]

I'd argue the MT status healing is floor 8 myself. (Not that this really matters.) It's 3-4 levels above the stat topic level IIRC, I certainly only got it in the postgame.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Ronfar needs to go to 0.5. Strictly worse healer than Jessica? >_>

I also think Nina2 is fine as a 2.0. 

I'm not so sure myself. Below average speed and Aht-tastic durability spread? Eeeeeew.

[dude789]

Ronfar's MT status healing is floor 7 and being both slower and frailer are just too damning. I could argue both are too high at anything above a 0.5 myself, but Jessica has a case for a 1.0 (some durability tricks like regen equips and the sleep option aren't much, but are helpful). Ronfar? Hell, he's a worse healer than -Mint-.

He's a bit slower but at endgame Jessica's durability edge is fairly minor and before that I'd say that Ronfar has the edge before that because Lucia is the fifth party member instead of Leo who has gamebest HP and defense by a good amount so the def and HP averages would be quite a bit lower. As Dhyer pointed out earlier, Jessica gets her revival stuff fairly late whereas Ronfar gets his first revival spell around Floor 3. I'd say that they're both better than Mint because Mint takes so long to get her good healing and their damage at least registers for some points in the dungeon.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

In fairness, Mint is very much a spike-and-slump healer. First Aid is trash, Heal gets quickly outdated... granted, Heal gets outdated when she gets Nurse, which is floor 3 and for the duration of the floor is like MT full healing and holy fuck it's hax. Floor 4, it dwindles, but she gets Cure and now can properly ST heal for the rest of the game (she also gets Silence, but who cares about ST silence). And then floor 5 Nurse just kinda sucks and she doesn't get much there (well, Valkyrie is a good MT physical damage boost), and she doesn't get her MT full healing until floor 6. And the revival is floor 7... but I digress. Regardless, the big big deal regarding Mint is really the adequate durability+near-inexhaustible resource pool combo. Lategame, she even gets elemental walling options, which helps some. After accounting for scoring, she's really a much better pick than Ronfar will ever be - I'd choose her over EBC Ronfar even at 0.5 for the sheer resource depth and better team flexibility.

[SnowFire]

Yeah, worst that can happen is everyone starts using Ronfar too much.  That MT full-revival move is potentially pretty badass depending on how rigged the coin flip is, but not sure anyone ever did any tests.  (It's better than a 50% chance I want to say, but there's a big difference between a 60% chance and a 90% chance.)

[dude789]

Just a stray observation that could help someone build their team, as it stands right now there's a ton of high powered single element offense in the 2.5-1.5 area. There's a ton of potential offense in those picks for relatively little cost which could really help a blitzing team or just raise a team's offense in general. The Elemental Penetration sealstone hasn't been used much, but it seems like now could be a good time for it to have a breakout performance.

Here's a few of the characters that have good MT offense and could really benefit from using that sealstone:
2.5: Eileen, Geddoe, Mei-Ling (kinda due to SF elemental oddness), Nelis, Sasarai
2.0: Crono, Crowley, Nash, White Rose, Yosuke
1.5: Hellion, Luca, Mitsuru, Yukiko

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

In addition to the earlier suggestions, I have a few more.

Demi to 3.0 (Hasn't been used in a while, but I think she's not as good at 3.5)
Ryu2 to 3.0 (^^^)
Toadstool to 2.5 (She's good, but... ehh.)
Nina2 to 1.5
Ronfar to 1.0
Ditto to 1.0, always gets Quick Powder (I think he's too good for .5 but not an amazing 1.0? A Raja problem.)
Speaking of Raja, I'll drop him back to 1.0 but ask people not to use Speed? on him

Oh, any opinion on changing Gastly to Gengar and bumping him up a tier or two?

Ryu2 and Demi to 3.0 I'm fine with. Toadstool to 2.5, I'm less fine because that's -way- too cheap for MT full healing that also heals status for mad cheap off solid speed and that starts getting other insanity by floor 4. Toadstool carries her price as is just fine. Lower her any and she just becomes abusable.

Also, Neph, have you pondered having MESARTHIM in the Dungeon? =3

[SnowFire]

Elemental Penetration also got buffed to only affect the opponent's team, so you can pick someone like Eiko now and get your Holy offense and stilll enjoy FF9 elemental resist cheese on your side.  So yeah, some very good options for that now.