New Nyarlathotep's Dungeon Topic, Updated 10/1/14 with new rules

[Dark Holy Elf]

StasisRune is the second-to-last Rune Magic spell and is certainly not F3.

[Pyro]

I'm not sure MT Steelguard would work? I imagine folks can't MT their own basic defend commands, for example.

I was being ditzy on StasisRune. It was just an amusing thought at first.

[AndrewRogue]

Strongest team to ever enter the dungeon.

Team 5
Raquel (WA4) (Speed? Sealstone) - 2pts
Nei (S3) - 1pt
Marle (CT) - 1pt
Mint (ToP) - 0.5pts
Priest (FFT) - 0.5pts

Total: 5 Points

Debating this a little bit, but this is more or less the right idea. Maybe Lucia over Marle or something silly?

[Clear Tranquil]

Hmm looks like I might be screwed either way then =/

Can I ask some questions of NEB? (other peeps feel free to answer if they have input)~

1# Can Mesa have Freedom Rune for F3?

2# Can Priest have Holy for F3?

3# How fast is Mesa at this stage?

[Talaysen]

I'm not sure MT Steelguard would work? I imagine folks can't MT their own basic defend commands, for example.

I was being ditzy on StasisRune. It was just an amusing thought at first.

Steelguard isn't really a basic defend command though.  it is a self-target command, though, but I think those are generally seen as MTable.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Hmm looks like I might be screwed either way then =/

Can I ask some questions of NEB? (other peeps feel free to answer if they have input)~

1# Can Mesa have Freedom Rune for F3?

2# Can Priest have Holy for F3?

3# How fast is Mesa at this stage?

FreedomRune is one of the initial batch of rune magic (i.e. storebought), and those are easier to learn in general, so yeah, F3 sounds very reasonable.

FFT Holy can easily be afforded by the time you can use Wizard Robes, and I'd see F3 as having Wizard Robes, so yeah. You might not be able to have more than one of Holy, Raise 2, and Reraise, though.

Saga Frontier speed is a huge headache depending on what you see each race getting at different points. I'd probably just take Mesarthim as her endgame speed for sanity reasons (which is to say, notably above average).

[Clear Tranquil]

Oooh thanks a lot for the inputs! =) This should help a lot I think~

I was worried about Xeno Sleep and whether my team had enough magic power to blow up Raquel ~

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

In case Magic missed my last post on his most recent team: I just noticed that there's definitely something to be said for a Geno Boost'd Firefly user synergy game. That's actually a pretty good idea (slap it on a tank, Geno Boost, first turn is a PILE OF LAUGHS unless MT's involved). Picking up an actual tank that can also benefit from the offensive boost might be a cool idea - like, say, Firefly Knight (since he's tanky both ways)+Geno Boost. It's oddly effective, and Knight is -cheap-. I mean, 1.5? That leaves you plenty of room to round up your team with whatever else it needs, 6.5 can hand you even a Godlike with reasonable room to spare for a five slot team, and Geno hands you a lot of blitzing support options besides pure buffing shit (I hype him as a high-profile offense-geared 3.0 nonstop for a reason, even if he doesn't 2HKO either durability. Even ignoring the fact Geno Boost is one of the best ST buffs ever running off crazy first-turn speed, his offense is good enough to contribute solidly on both ends -and- Geno Whirl is the bane of ID-vulnerables everywhere). I don't think Jane has space in teams built up on defensive gimmicks, though, she's meant for setting up deadly blitzes off crazy good speed.

[Magic Fanatic]

Jane's mostly there for initiating a Geno Boosted, Entrance'd PSI Rockin/Flameria/Blizzard before enemies can move floor 4 and on.  That said, I do believe I still need to rethink my team, as with as it is...  It's just not that good, really.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Possible Floor idea: Phase-based Combat! Like FE and Disgaea and all those games that let the player's team attack first and then the enemy's team. It could make for an interesting option. It seems easily skewed towards the player at first: the player has initiative to set up all their buffs and their synergy game. However, if you make the enemy team correspondingly strong, it means that the survivors all get their turns at once to lay out the player team. Could be an interesting exercise.

[Nephrite]

I like that idea.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Jane's mostly there for initiating a Geno Boosted, Entrance'd PSI Rockin/Flameria/Blizzard before enemies can move floor 4 and on.

Yeah, that's a lot of buildup. You probably don't want to go for teams whose payoff starts showing at midgame and onwards without having strengths to back themselves up, particularly considering your history with teams (most of them fell because they had -huge- issues early and didn't synergize that well). I honestly think Jane can't make team blitzes better if they weren't already good - i.e. she can't save teams, she can only make teams that are already good stronger, and the rest of her skillset just sucks.

EDIT: Not to mention Mia damage sorta sucks and you're spending a lot of resources - particularly on Hilda - for blitzes that take three PCs to deal barely above PC HP at best (on Mia, probably not even that much - it's possible she fails to OHKO average with Flameria even Geno Boosted -and- Entranced. Ness' is a bit better, but holy crap PSI Rockin' is expensive and not damaging for the resources it blows, and he'll be often busy healing as it stands. Generally, you want to be OHKOing average with a single buff if you're going the MT blitz route).

[SnowFire]

Well, I have no comment as to Magic's proposed new team, but I entirely disagree with claiming the rest of Jane's skillset sucks.  As pointed out before, Sucker means she's a Firefly rune user and arguably should be increased in price.  90% MT provoke + super evade is really freaking good and trivializes a whole horde of fights when enemies don't have MT.  Firefly is one of the absolute best effects available in a rocket-tag environment like the Dungeon.

[Nephrite]

Is her evade that good from the beginning? I know it's hard to tell.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Is her evade that good from the beginning? I know it's hard to tell.

Yes. All the stats she excels at are curve-breaking from the very beginning - arguably, her evade is at its worst at -endgame-. You know something's up when you look at her effective endgame evade and think "man, only 63%? That's kinda disappointing".

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Well, I have no comment as to Magic's proposed new team, but I entirely disagree with claiming the rest of Jane's skillset sucks.  As pointed out before, Sucker means she's a Firefly rune user and arguably should be increased in price.  90% MT provoke + super evade is really freaking good and trivializes a whole horde of fights when enemies don't have MT.  Firefly is one of the absolute best effects available in a rocket-tag environment like the Dungeon.

I hesitate to hype Sucker as a viable move outside pure theoretical scenarios until I actually see typical enemy levels at the points she's available at -and- the practical effect. All the times I tried using Sucker, it was a waste of time. I probably should rehook my PS2 and replay ACF.

[Nephrite]

Well, I'm willing to re-evaluate her, but only if there's a consensus on Sucker.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Hence why "I should replay ACF". Even in order to test hidden immunities. Also worth doing because Split Infinity himself sometimes blunders on formulae.

[Nephrite]

Since we're coming to a close on the current teams that were posted, if any of you have new teams that haven't been posted on the last few pages, please re-post them.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

So, do I want to repost my five billion teams

[dude789]

Reposting my most recent team I created.
Snow
Lenneth
Zalmo
Citan
Rena
SSL sealstone.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Reposting a plethora of teams.

Team Neph Fanservice

TimeLord (4.0), Mei-ling (2.5), Eiko (Body Charge, 2.0), Ricardo (1.5), Mime (1.0)

Team "I Didn't Even Bother With A Name This Time"

Dorothy (3.5), Chemist (2), Kurando (2), Rufus (2.5, Multitarget), Bow (1.0)

Team Phantasy Star 4 After-School Special

Rika (4.0), Rune (3.5, Body Charge) Kyra (2.0), Raja (1.0), Nall (0.5).

Team "NelisXBernadette OTP or Priest is the Best 0.5 ever"

Rika (4.0), Nelis (2.5), Eileen (2.5), Bernadette (1.5), Priest (0.5) [Elemental Penetration]

Team "March of the Supervillainesses"

Shania (3.5), Mei-ling (2.5), Hildagarde Valentine (3.0), Eiko (1.5) Mint (0.5) [Body Charge Sealstone on Hilda]

Team Let Us Glitch The Dungeon Together - AKA Pyro Is A Genie In A Bottle

Shania (3.5), Sacred Slayer (Speed?, 2.0), Yuri Hyuga [SH1] (3.5), Raja (1.0), Nei (1.0)

Team "Trying to Make a Heavy Out of Emily"

Emily (3.0, Multitarget), Aeonless Yuna (3.0), Nina4 (3.0), White Rose (2.0).

[Clear Tranquil]

You are so Snow~

* Clear Tranquil giggles and rubs it's tummy

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

I'm clueless.

[Clear Tranquil]

Just being a CT!~

I meant it as a compliment though


By the way I finished with the SO3 DM testing for future reference/finished doing the characters I still had to do @ SO3 AVGs F3/early dungeon. I didn't know whether end of disc one/L30~ was legal for disc one or not (probably assumes a Triple EXP interp either way) so I went with the lower level take.

*Notes I went with skill/proficiency and Berserk for the characters who had it -

Albel - 30'900~ (Shockwave Swirls, Berserk)
Adray - 2160~ (Chaos Tides, no Berserk)
Cliff - 62'000~ (Hammer of Mights, Berserk)
Fayt - 27'020~ (Side Kicks/Berserk)
Nel - 15'300~ (Ice Daggers, Berserk)
Maria - 31'500~ (Scatter Beams, Berserk)
Mirage - 15'900~ (Hammer of Mights, no Berserk)
Peppita - 24'000~ (Magic Hook)/23'000 (Frozen Daggers) (Power Dance > Magic Hook/Frozen Daggers. no Berserk)
Roger - 57'000~ (Fiery Axe, Berserk)
Sophia - 1150~ (Lightning Blasts, no Berserk)
Total DM - 266'930
AVG - 26'693

*All the moves were chained to their full extents as far as Berserk or no would allow them, Nel's Ice Daggers has higher Fury costs than the others so her chaining is limited even with Berserk which is why her offence is lower here (and she doesn't have a better move at lower levels), skill proficiencys, Power Dance was a L5 (100 uses to L6) I just took L5 because I used one of my low level solo files to do the testing and I had to level characters/skills up >_> L5 seems reasonable for Power Dance here though if Peppita gets it F2 in the dungeon  it might be a higher LV depending. Usually through general play/normal file I'd have it higher than L5 pretty sharp time wise myself through controlling Peppita as leader and quickly chaining/cancel bonus comboing it which you can do with her as leader/especially since she gains proficiences for it so rapidly compared to other character skills for esp the first few SLVs  but YMMV.

Bah. You guys were right. Peppita's offence does fail on the early floors I guess =/ I was so sure she was going to hit average, but once I got figures for the characters I still had to do =/ Some leniency on Power Dance LVs might allow her to still do so/a bit above but yeaahh. She's really hurting for Berserk.